Christ was tempted LIKE as we are, but He never desired or was tempted to do evil.

[Jason0047]

Jason I think you just confuse things by using the word "tempted" in two different ways instead of just defining it clearly and choosing a different word.

For example, Jesus was tempted by Satan to do a lot of things that went against God. However, He never DESIRED in His heart to do any of those things.

There is a difference between the heart that DESIRES to do sin and temptation where the flesh or Satan seeks to lead the heart astray.

Too many people don't make that distinction or blur the lines so it makes it confusing.

You may DESIRE to do God's will, but your flesh may be tempted to seek its own pleasure. The question is do you follow your heart (the leading of the Holy Spirit) or your flesh?

What I propose is very clear and easy to understand. God is good. Christ is good because He is God. Jesus was made in the LIKENESS of sinful flesh (Romans 8:3). Jesus did not have a sin nature so as to be tempted. For you have to have a wrong desire or wrong nature in order to be tempted by wrong things. It's basic cause and effect. A person can take a blind man into a strip club to tempt them (with the lust of his eyes) by looking at women in a strip club. It's not possible. He is blind. He was tempted externally but there was no way he was tempted internally. For Jesus to do potential wrong means He had to have a sin nature. However, Hebrews 7:25 says Jesus is Holy, Innocent, Unstained, Separate From Sinners, and Exalted Above the Heavens. If Jesus had a sin nature, then He could not be our spotless Lamb. He would have been stained. And you would need some kind of sin nature in order to be tempted in some way. The cult known as the Christadelphians teach that Jesus has a sin nature and it is wrong.

 

[Cassian]

God cannot bruise Himself, but as a man He could be bruised. God cannot grow tired, but as a man He could grow tired. God cannot seize to be Lord who does not rule over all things and have glory. Yet as a man He could give up some of that rule and glory. Now, that said, the one thing about God that will never change is His core divine nature (i.e. His mind or personality). That is why He was never truly tempted to do any kind of wrong because He is God. For it is impossible for God to sin. This is why Jesus never sinned.

You believe in a Savior, who had a human nature that is NOT like us. God assumed our mortal nature. That nature was put to the same test as we are as human beings. Christ was truly tempted. What do you think Satan was doing in tempting Christ. The only thing you have correct is that He did not sin. Which is why Christ is our model and example.

However, clearly limitations were being placed upon the Lord, though. Yet this does not change His divinity or the core of who is one iota, though. For the fulness of the Godhead dwelled within Him bodily (Colossians 2:9); And Jesus could have snapped his fingers or asked the Father in a heart beat to have all His divine powers back and they would have been His. For God cannot disagree with Himself. {/quote] Here you do just the opposite, You make Christ in His divine nature not really God. You move from one extreme to the other and both are incorrect.

 

[Cassian]

What I propose is very clear and easy to understand. God is good. Christ is good because He is God. Jesus was made in the LIKENESS of sinful flesh (Romans 8:3). Jesus did not have a sin nature so as to be tempted. For you have to have a wrong desire or wrong nature in order to be tempted by wrong things. It's basic cause and effect. A person can take a blind man into a strip club to tempt them (with the lust of his eyes) by looking at women in a strip club. It's not possible. He is blind. He was tempted externally but there was no way he was tempted internally. For Jesus to do potential wrong means He had to have a sin nature. However, Hebrews 7:25 says Jesus is Holy, Innocent, Unstained, Separate From Sinners, and Exalted Above the Heavens. If Jesus had a sin nature, then He could not be our spotless Lamb. He would have been stained. And you would need some kind of sin nature in order to be tempted in some way. The cult known as the Christadelphians teach that Jesus has a sin nature and it is wrong.

Another fallacy of your argument is that it is based on the erroneous Original Sin theory. Not only did Christ not have a sin nature, but neither does any human being. That one error causes you to err on your explanation of who Christ is relative to His human nature.

 

[Jason0047]

You believe in a Savior, who had a human nature that is NOT like us. God assumed our mortal nature. That nature was put to the same test as we are as human beings. Christ was truly tempted. What do you think Satan was doing in tempting Christ. The only thing you have correct is that He did not sin. Which is why Christ is our model and example.

However, clearly limitations were being placed upon the Lord, though. Yet this does not change His divinity or the core of who is one iota, though. For the fulness of the Godhead dwelled within Him bodily (Colossians 2:9); And Jesus could have snapped his fingers or asked the Father in a heart beat to have all His divine powers back and they would have been His. For God cannot disagree with Himself. {/quote] Here you do just the opposite, You make Christ in His divine nature not really God. You move from one extreme to the other and both are incorrect.

Do you believe Jesus is God Almighty in the flesh?

 

[Jason0047]

Another fallacy of your argument is that it is based on the erroneous Original Sin theory. Not only did Christ not have a sin nature, but neither does any human being. That one error causes you to err on your explanation of who Christ is relative to His human nature.

So it is just a coincidence that nobody has lived righteously besides Jesus Christ?

It is a coincidence that both Adam and Eve's eyes were both opened to their sin when Adam bit of the fruit?

 

[Cassian]

Do you believe Jesus is God Almighty in the flesh?

Yes, as my statement already stated. I was pointing out that you neither believe He was actually 100% man and 100% God. You may say so, but your explanation denies its Truth.

 

[Cassian]

So it is just a coincidence that nobody has lived righteously besides Jesus Christ?

It is a coincidence that both Adam and Eve's eyes were both opened to their sin when Adam bit of the fruit?

Which does not explain your use of Original Sin. The result of Adam's sin was death. It is death, our mortality that is passed to each person, not sin or guilt of Adam. It is impossible to pass on sin. Sin is a specific act against God's will.

 

[Jason0047]

Yes, as my statement already stated. I was pointing out that you neither believe He was actually 100% man and 100% God. You may say so, but your explanation denies its Truth.

Do you believe Jesus is God Almighty in the flesh? Yes or no?

 

[Cassian]

Do you believe Jesus is God Almighty in the flesh? Yes or no?

Why do you keep asking this question, when I have already answered it twice. So, once again, Yes. Now are you going to ask me a third time?

 

[Jason0047]

I just want to be clear because the Scriptures say that God cannot be tempted. Jesus is God Almighty in the flesh. So are we to really believe that flesh had altered the mind of God whereby He would consider in doing evil (i.e. to be tempted)? Are we really to believe that Christ suppressing His Omniscience would be any less God whereby He would consider in doing an unholy act? In other words, what your saying is that God made it possible to the point where He could almost sin or potentially sin but He chose not to sin.

See, if there is one fact about God you need to know right now is that God does not ever have the potential to do evil in any way shape or form because God is love. God is Holy and righteous. God is life. God is Light and in Him is no darkness at all. Yet, you would have me believe that there was darkness in the Lord God my Savior (Jesus Christ). For there has to be some kind of darkness in God (i.e. the Son of God) in order for Jesus to be tempted internally by sinful or dark things.

In other words, you really can't say Jesus is God Almighty if He is not Almighty like God the Father. Both are without lustful thought, temptation, and are Holy and perfect in everything they do.

 

[dcontroversal]

I just want to be clear because the Scriptures say that God cannot be tempted. Jesus is God Almighty in the flesh. So are we to really believe that flesh had altered the mind of God whereby He would consider in doing evil (i.e. to be tempted)? Are we really to believe that Christ suppressing His Omniscience would be any less God whereby He would consider in doing an unholy act? In other words, what your saying is that God made it possible to the point where He could almost sin or potentially sin but He chose not to sin.

See, if there is one fact about God you need to know right now is that God does not ever have the potential to do evil in any way shape or form because God is love. God is Holy and righteous. God is life. God is Light and in Him is no darkness at all. Yet, you would have me believe that there was darkness in the Lord God my Savior (Jesus Christ). For there has to be some kind of darkness in God (i.e. the Son of God) in order for Jesus to be tempted internally by sinful or dark things.

What say thou?

I say open your eyes to Matthew chapter 4, Hebrews chapter 2 and 4 and come to the knowledge of the truth while studying the word TEMPTED as applied unto Jesus because you are going to seed on a few things while denying the truth about Jesus and him being ENTICED as we have been ENTICED<---The word tempted from the GREEK!

 

[Cassian]

I just want to be clear because the Scriptures say that God cannot be tempted. Jesus is God Almighty in the flesh. So are we to really believe that flesh had altered the mind of God whereby He would consider in doing evil (i.e. to be tempted)? Are we really to believe that Christ suppressing His Omniscience would be any less God whereby He would consider in doing an unholy act? In other words, what your saying is that God made it possible to the point where He could almost sin or potentially sin but He chose not to sin.

God is NOT what was being tempted. Christ in His human nature was being tempted. It is NOT that He was not tempted but that He did not accept the temptation. If He was not tempted, then scripture is lying when it clearly states that Jesus was tempted by the devil. It was real, not a myth.

See, if there is one fact about God you need to know right now is that God does not ever have the potential to do evil in any way shape or form because God is love. God is Holy and righteous. God is life. God is Light and in Him is no darkness at all. Yet, you would have me believe that there was darkness in the Lord God my Savior (Jesus Christ). For there has to be some kind of darkness in God (i.e. the Son of God) in order for Jesus to be tempted internally by sinful or dark things.

Your concept of not being tempted and not being influenced or swayed does not follow.

In other words, you really can't say Jesus is God Almighty if He is not Almighty like God the Father. Both are without lustful thought, temptation, and are Holy and perfect in everything they do.

Which has nothing to do with the fact that Satan tempted Jesus. Do you think this was just meaningless rhetoric of scripture?
Again your statement does not recognize that Christ had two natures, Divine and human. God is not being tempted, but Christ in His Human nature was surely being tempted.

If it is a myth, just ink on paper, then Christ really did not suffer as we do in the flesh. Your view makes Christ other than man as we are in His human nature. His keeping the law perfectly was not a mere philosophical statement but an accomplishment. It is why we are commanded to be perfect. Christ became our model and example.

 

[thecreationtutor]

Another fallacy of your argument is that it is based on the erroneous Original Sin theory. Not only did Christ not have a sin nature, but neither does any human being. That one error causes you to err on your explanation of who Christ is relative to His human nature.

You don't really give the fallacy, you just assume it's a fallacy because you don't believe it - now that's a fallacy - find out the name of that one

Man does have a sin nature - it's passed from the male - Jesus doesn't have a sin nature, therefore can be the representative Adam. Death passed from one man Adam - Call it a sin nature, call it corruption - there is something seriously wrong with every person in this world.

The problem most people have is that they assume in their morality babies as completely innocent - as my sister so aptly said - later to find out her child is a little hellion

If that baby who you took that toy from was big enough and could - he'd strike you.

My friends child at 11 months was not told to scream at his mother for not being fed fast enough -- Dad never taught him, nor did mom


Emotional plea, in that language - erroneous doesn't really help your cause



Now - temptation is not sin - Jesus was tempted - yet without sin

Who feels the weight of temptation more - the guy who fails, or the guy who does it perfectly all the time

a weightlifter who drops the weight - or the guy who gets the gold medal?

 

[EmethAlethia]

Php 2:5 Have this attitude in yourselves which was also in Christ Jesus, 6 who, although He existed in the form of God, did not regard equality with God a thing to be grasped, 7 but emptied Himself, taking the form of a bond-servant, and being made in the likeness of men.

The word “Emptied” means retained nothing. Every supernatural aspect of Jesus was because of the Spirit working. Jesus Himself, still being God, had NO supernatural powers or abilities.

That said, Jesus was not born of “man” but of God and did not inherit a sin nature. He, indeed, was like Adam was prior to original sin.

Does this mean that He did not have all the desires every man has? No. He did. In every way everything that affects men affected Him. He just didn’t sin. How do I know this?

Heb 4:15 For we do not have a high priest who cannot sympathize with our weaknesses, but One who has been tempted in all things as we are, yet without sin.

Beyond that, Jesus had temptations direct from the devil targeting exactly who He was. How about I just hand you the rule of all the nations of the world for all time. No death, no death on the cross … a little hungry after 40 days are we? How about a little bread?

Tempted: Mat. 4, Mar. 1, Luke 4

 

[dcontroversal]

Php 2:5 Have this attitude in yourselves which was also in Christ Jesus, 6 who, although He existed in the form of God, did not regard equality with God a thing to be grasped, 7 but emptied Himself, taking the form of a bond-servant, and being made in the likeness of men.

The word “Emptied” means retained nothing. Every supernatural aspect of Jesus was because of the Spirit working. Jesus Himself, still being God, had NO supernatural powers or abilities.

That said, Jesus was not born of “man” but of God and did not inherit a sin nature. He, indeed, was like Adam was prior to original sin.

Does this mean that He did not have all the desires every man has? No. He did. In every way everything that affects men affected Him. He just didn’t sin. How do I know this?

Heb 4:15 For we do not have a high priest who cannot sympathize with our weaknesses, but One who has been tempted in all things as we are, yet without sin.

Beyond that, Jesus had temptations direct from the devil targeting exactly who He was. How about I just hand you the rule of all the nations of the world for all time. No death, no death on the cross … a little hungry after 40 days are we? How about a little bread?

Tempted: Mat. 4, Mar. 1, Luke 4

I agree and will say the truth is obvious....had Jesus not been tempted (enticed) as we are enticed he could not fully understand what we go through as human beings....enticed in ALL POINTS (enticed, tempted) like as WE ARE is very clear and to deny this denies the truth of what Jesus accomplished by enduring the temptations as in NO SIN!

 

[Jason0047]

I say open your eyes to Matthew chapter 4, Hebrews chapter 2 and 4 and come to the knowledge of the truth while studying the word TEMPTED as applied unto Jesus because you are going to seed on a few things while denying the truth about Jesus and him being ENTICED as we have been ENTICED<---The word tempted from the GREEK!

I already provided a sound explanation for Hebrews 2 and 4. However, you are not able to explain any of the passages I proposed so far. Also, you did not give me a sound explanation for Temptation according to the Scriptures and or real life, either. Oh, you pointed to a passage in Genesis, but that really was too vague to defend you viewpoint. The passage in James says that lust gives birth to sin and then sin brings forth death. It's a progression of bad things (That are tied together). Also, Jesus said if you lust after a woman you have committed adultery with her already in your heart. So bad thoughts are lust. In other words, if you even think about doing something bad, it is not good. So Jesus could not even remotely think or consider in doing bad (Which needs to be present in order for someone to be tempted by something internally). Also, what of 1 John 2:16? It says all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life is not of the Father, but is of the world. Jesus is one with the Father. So Jesus could not have the lust of the flesh, etc. What verse helps you to explain your viewpoint in light of these verses?


As for Matthew 4: the word "tempted" does not change in it's definition if it is talking about external tempting or external enticement that was being put forth by the devil.

 

[dcontroversal]

I already provided a sound explanation for Hebrews 2 and 4. However, you are not able to explain any of the passages I proposed so far. Also, you did not give me a sound explanation for Temptation according to the Scriptures and or real life, either. Oh, you pointed to a passage in Genesis, but that really was too vague to defend you viewpoint. The passage in James says that lust gives birth to sin and then sin brings forth death. It's a progression of bad things (That are tied together). Also, Jesus said if you lust after a woman you have committed adultery with her already in your heart. So bad thoughts are lust. In other words, if you even think about doing something bad, it is not good. So Jesus could not even remotely think or consider in doing bad (Which needs to be present in order for someone to be tempted by something internally). Also, what of 1 John 2:16? It says all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life is not of the Father, but is of the world. Jesus is one with the Father. So Jesus could not have the lust of the flesh, etc. What verse helps you to explain your viewpoint in light of these verses?


As for Matthew 4: the word "tempted" does not change in it's definition if it is talking about external tempting or external enticement that was being put forth by the devil.

Yeah I did, but you refuse to humble yourself to the truth as you are NEVER open to learning and instruction....your view is wrong Jason and the very definition of the words used prove your wrong..so keep believing in a Jesus that was not (enticed) as we were enticed...period!

 

[Jason0047]

God is NOT what was being tempted. Christ in His human nature was being tempted.

I agree that Christ's flesh was being tested in the wilderness. But this was external testing.

Also, you mention Christ had a human nature. Are you suggesting that Christ had a sin nature within this human nature so as to be tempted?

It is NOT that He was not tempted but that He did not accept the temptation. If He was not tempted, then scripture is lying when it clearly states that Jesus was tempted by the devil. It was real, not a myth.

Yes, it was external temptation only. There was no internal temptation on Christ's part.

Your concept of not being tempted and not being influenced or swayed does not follow.

Which has nothing to do with the fact that Satan tempted Jesus. Do you think this was just meaningless rhetoric of scripture?
Again your statement does not recognize that Christ had two natures, Divine and human. God is not being tempted, but Christ in His Human nature was surely being tempted.

Christ's body was tested, but His mind and soul (Which is eternal and divine part of the Godhead) was not tempted to do evil. The Word did not inhabit a pre-existing human being. Nor did the Word create a new soul with new desires so as to inhabit either. Nowhere does the Scriptures say that Jesus had a human soul that would react differently than His eternal soul. Being in the shell of a body and suppressing His divine attribuate of Omniscience is not going to change God's impeccable character of always doing what is right and good. God is not capable or tempted in doing evil under any circumstances.

If it is a myth, just ink on paper, then Christ really did not suffer as we do in the flesh. Your view makes Christ other than man as we are in His human nature. His keeping the law perfectly was not a mere philosophical statement but an accomplishment. It is why we are commanded to be perfect. Christ became our model and example.

There are two wrong extremes on this point of topic. There are those who overemphasize the deity of Jesus to the point that He did not suppress any of His divine attributes. Then the other opposite extreme is your position where you overemphasize Jesus' humanity to a point where it cripples God's good and Holy character. See, Jesus had to take on our sins within his body and pay the price for those sins by dying on the cross. He suffered obedience by obeying the Father to the cross to be LIKE us, but He was not exactly us. Read Hebrews 7:25 again and ask yourself if He was us. For did Jesus ever sin? No. Then He is not like us. Did Jesus receive worship? Yes, because He is God. So He is not like us.

 

[Jason0047]

Yeah I did, but you refuse to humble yourself to the truth as you are NEVER open to learning and instruction....your view is wrong Jason and the very definition of the words used prove your wrong..so keep believing in a Jesus that was not (enticed) as we were enticed...period!

Really? Where exactly did you reply to the verses I was just talking about in defense of my position?

How would you define lust?

Can you have lust for a woman?

Do you think Jesus struggled with the temptation in lusting after women?

For if he was tempted in all points like we were, then you have to say .... yes.

Are you saying Jesus had a sin nature so as to be tempted like we are tempted?

Did Jesus have wrong desire that he battled against?

 

[thecreationtutor]

love to see that Jesus I guess is not a high priest who can sympathize with us

Your the first part of Hebrews 11 that makes you feel like the Bible is a joke

where Jesus meets us

IS the last part - destitute, afflicted, torn in 2 - living in caves, and the wilderness

Tempted as we are - yet without sin



I don't want your view of CHristianity