Is it possible to get, "unborn again"?

[newbirth]

Yep . . . and I stand by it . . . . One is born again of God's Spirit by confessing Jesus as Lord and believing that God raised him from the dead.

Romans 10:9,10 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

If you are saved, are you not born again of God's Spirit? That new creation created/born within you is "spirit" . . . . That which is born of the Spirit is spirit. (John 3:6b) You are filled with the holy Spirit, i.e. living water!

How come you don't believe this...? For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness
Matthew 3:14-16King James Version (KJV)
[SUP]14 [/SUP]But John forbad him, saying, I have need to be baptized of thee, and comest thou to me?
[SUP]15 [/SUP]And Jesus answering said unto him, Suffer it to be so now: for thus it becometh us to fulfil all righteousness. Then he suffered him.

[SUP]16 [/SUP]And Jesus, when he was baptized, went up straightway out of the water: and, lo, the heavens were opened unto him, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove, and lighting upon him:


seems to me Jesus is saying baptism is righteousness...



Mark 16:16King James Version (KJV)
[SUP]16 [/SUP]He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.

 

[dcontroversal]

You should obey God, and receive his promises. Not twist scripture to support a false gospel of works earning your way to heaven.

Call out on the name of the lord, and yuo will be saved.

Believe in the name of the son, and yuo will HAVE eternal (not conditional) life

He who begun a good work in you will COMPLETE it.

He who has faith is NOT CONDEMNED, but he who does not believe is condemned already (in a condemned state)

The seal of the spirit.

The promise of God, You can KNOW you HAVE eternal life.

everything you post contradicts these passages, and promises of God. so your stuck, You have a bible which contradicts, or yuo have a faulty interpretation of those passages.

No doubt for sure....it is like they reject the scriptures lock, stock and barrel when it comes to grace dia faith based salvation while trusting into themselves, works and water which do not bring and or keep salvation.......gospels of a different kind they teach for sure.......!

 

[peacefulbeliever]

Ye are of God little children and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you than he that is in the world.
1 John 4:4

Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: and every one that loveth him that begat loveth him also that is begotten of him. . . . For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous. For whatsoever is born of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that overcometh the world, our faith. Who is he that overcometh the world, but he that believeth that Jesus is the Son of God?

BECAUSE we are born again by grace through our faith in Jesus Christ, the Son of God, we are able to love the Lord our God with all our heart, soul, mind, and strength and we are strengthened and enabled to love others as ourselves with the love of God shed abroad in our hearts . . . .
BECAUSE of HIM we have victory . . . .
BECAUSE of HIM we have everlasting life . . .
BECAUSE of HIM we are able to STAND . . .
BECAUSE of HIM we are made righteous . . .
BECAUSE of HIM we have been justified . . .

NOTHING COMES FROM US EXCEPT OUR BELIEVING IN HIM. IT IS NEVER, NEVER BECAUSE OF US!

 

[SeaBass]

1 Jn 2:29 "If ye know that he is righteous, ye know that every one that doeth righteousness is born of him."

Doeth is present tense. one must conditionally continue to do righteousness to remain born of Him.
If one quits doing righteousness he is no longer born of Him but fallen from grace.

 

[peacefulbeliever]

How come you don't believe this...? For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness
Matthew 3:14-16King James Version (KJV)
[SUP]14 [/SUP]But John forbad him, saying, I have need to be baptized of thee, and comest thou to me?
[SUP]15 [/SUP]And Jesus answering said unto him, Suffer it to be so now: for thus it becometh us to fulfil all righteousness. Then he suffered him.
[SUP]16 [/SUP]And Jesus, when he was baptized, went up straightway out of the water: and, lo, the heavens were opened unto him, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove, and lighting upon him:

seems to me Jesus is saying baptism is righteousness...

Mark 16:16King James Version (KJV)
[SUP]16 [/SUP]He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.

I do believe that with the heart man believeth unto righteousness - isn't that what I quoted in Romans 10:9,10?

Nope, baptism is not righteousness - Jesus had to FULFILL righteousness by FULFILLING the LAW. And the most important part of Christ being baptized was the "Spirit of God descending like a dove upon him" - symbolizing being baptized with Holy Spirit. John truly baptized in water but there was one coming later who would baptize with Holy Spirit; that someone being Jesus Christ.

But NOW the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets; EVEN the righteousness of God by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference: Rom. 3:21,22

 

[peacefulbeliever]

1 Jn 2:29 "If ye know that he is righteous, ye know that every one that doeth righteousness is born of him."

Doeth is present tense. one must conditionally continue to do righteousness to remain born of Him.
If one quits doing righteousness he is no longer born of Him but fallen from grace.

And we strive to do "righteousness" by "right living" BUT it is faith in HIM that makes us righteous. Righteousness dwells within the "spirit" born within us and our heart's desire is to live in a way that is well pleasing to God. That "spirit" that is born within us, the new creation was created by God, given to us because of our believing in the one he sent and it remains and it is sealed - that is how Christ knows those that are his.

One only falls from grace by trying to live by the law.

 

[crossnote]

you have total control over that heart....you are implying that one becomes a puppet with a new heart...that new heart gives you the ability to say yes or no.....before sin had you under control now you have control over your decisions....

The new heart has given me new desires to love and not offend God. I hope and pray one day you will experience that new heart instead of theorizing humanistic ideas about it.

 

[crossnote]

The past tense shows falling from grace happens, so there is no eternal security. Those Galatians could choose repent and return to grace not making their fall permanent.

It's in the aorist tense not the past tense.

 

[crossnote]

Again, some at Galatia fell from grace, past tense.

Again 'fallen' in Gal. 5.4 is in the aorist tense not the past tense.

 

[SeaBass]

Again 'fallen' in Gal. 5.4 is in the aorist tense not the past tense.

Aorist Tense
The aorist is said to be "simple occurrence" or "summary occurrence", without regard for the amount of time taken to accomplish the action. This tense is also often referred to as the 'punctiliar' tense. 'Punctiliar' in this sense means 'viewed as a single, collective whole,' a "one-point-in-time" action, although it may actually take place over a period of time. In the indicative mood the aorist tense denotes action that occurred in the past time, often translated like the English simple past tense. (A)


For example: "God...made us alive together with Christ." Eph 2:5
"He who has begun a good work in you will complete it until the day of Christ Jesus." Phil 1:6

​http://www.ntgreek.org/learn_nt_greek/verbs1.htm#AORIST


(A) "fallen" is aorist tense, indicative mood

 

[newbirth]

You should obey God, and receive his promises. Not twist scripture to support a false gospel of works earning your way to heaven.

Call out on the name of the lord, and yuo will be saved.

Believe in the name of the son, and yuo will HAVE eternal (not conditional) life

He who begun a good work in you will COMPLETE it.

He who has faith is NOT CONDEMNED, but he who does not believe is condemned already (in a condemned state)

The seal of the spirit.

The promise of God, You can KNOW you HAVE eternal life.

everything you post contradicts these passages, and promises of God. so your stuck, You have a bible which contradicts, or yuo have a faulty interpretation of those passages.

Here is a promise.....
[h=1]Acts 2:38-41King James Version (KJV)[/h] [SUP]38 [/SUP]Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

[SUP]39 [/SUP]For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.

[SUP]40 [/SUP]And with many other words did he testify and exhort, saying, Save yourselves from this untoward generation.
[SUP]41 [/SUP]Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls.



I suppose you believe the word...but you have not received the word...

 

[SeaBass]

And we strive to do "righteousness" by "right living" BUT it is faith in HIM that makes us righteous. Righteousness dwells within the "spirit" born within us and our heart's desire is to live in a way that is well pleasing to God. That "spirit" that is born within us, the new creation was created by God, given to us because of our believing in the one he sent and it remains and it is sealed - that is how Christ knows those that are his.

One only falls from grace by trying to live by the law.

The point is one must CONTINUE to do righteousness to continue to be born of God. One cannot UNconditionally do unrighteousness and remain born of Him.


1 Jn 5:8 "We know that whosoever is born of God sinneth not; but he that is begotten of God keepeth himself, and that wicked one toucheth him not."

'Sinneth' is present tense. So one born of God cannot continue in sin but must keep himself. If one does not keep himself and falls back into sin he is no longer born of God.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Gal 5

Spoken to the galation church, The gospel message of salvation by faith alone in the work of Christ. Many in that church had heard that message, but some had mere belief, and not faith in the work in which Paul spoke to them. They had come out of Judaism, and all the works of the law. And been shown the grace of God, and now have an opportunity to trust that grace, and be born again.

Unfortunately, There was evil in their midst, Who tried to spread the lie that faith is not enough, works must be added to faith, or faith is dead. the work he was introducing was circumcision.

Paul is sending out a stern warning to those who had come to know grace, but not yet made a decision to accept it. If you get circumcised to be saved, your indebted to obey the whole law (which they had already failed) and fallen from the grace which was shown to them by the teaching of paul and others.

You see jesus in his sermon on the mount, Paul and many others have proven there are only two ways to heaven.

1, Be righteous enough (even more than the pharisees), which already has been proven to be impossible.
2. Via the love of God and the grace preached in the gospel. Not of works, lest anyone should boast. but of faith, which is given as the result of grace.

The sad part it looks far to much like todays church, which also has been infiltrated with false teachers. Who also will tell you faith is not enough, we must also have works. Only today, instead of circumcision (which represented cleansing to the OT CHurch. We have water baptism (which represents cleansing to the new testament church)

The same warning goes out to all. If you attempt to be baptised (to be saved) you have fallen from grace, and are indebted to keep the whole law (yes baptism was a part of the law. All priests had to be baptised. We today are a spiritual priesthood. and to be that spiritual priest, we must be taken through the ceremony of cleansing (baptism), the sacrifice, and the annointing, as all priest in Judea were done to be consecrated)

but since the word baptised is used, and not circumcision. They ignore it and say it is not the same. Not so. Paul tells us in Col that we are cleansed with the spiritual cleansing not done by the hands of men, by the baptism of God,

 

[newbirth]

And we strive to do "righteousness" by "right living" BUT it is faith in HIM that makes us righteous. Righteousness dwells within the "spirit" born within us and our heart's desire is to live in a way that is well pleasing to God. That "spirit" that is born within us, the new creation was created by God, given to us because of our believing in the one he sent and it remains and it is sealed - that is how Christ knows those that are his.

One only falls from grace by trying to live by the law.

1 John 2:29
If ye know that he is righteous, ye know that every one that doeth righteousness is born of him.

1 John 3:7
Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.

1 John 3:10
In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother.

were is your scripture for this...One only falls from grace by trying to live by the law.

Romans 3:28-31King James Version (KJV)
[SUP]28 [/SUP]Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.
[SUP]29 [/SUP]Is he the God of the Jews only? is he not also of the Gentiles? Yes, of the Gentiles also:
[SUP]30 [/SUP]Seeing it is one God, which shall justify the circumcision by faith, and uncircumcision through faith.
[SUP]31 [/SUP]Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

As far as the aorist/past tense debate goes. It is quite silly we are even having this discussion.

Aorist is something which has been completed in the past. it is a finished work. which started in the past. continues today and will continue.

It is silly because of what paul said, if you really look at it and studied it, you would be amazed as to how silly it is and how foolish you feel that you ever saw it that way.

Paul said: (and lets look at this closely)

if you (future tense) get circumcised, you have (aorist tense, something which occured in the past and continues right now, even before you were circumcised) fallen from grace.

meaning? You heard grace in the past. But never received it, You fell off the grace standard of the gospel. and continued in the works part. thus you were never saved.

amazing how just a little open minded study, and these arguments would never exist, because they are based on a misinterpretation of the words.

Paul is saying, if you do something in the future, the thing offered in the past was not accomplish, you FELL short of that mark. thus fell from that mark. which in this case is grace

 

[newbirth]

The sad part it looks far to much like todays church, which also has been infiltrated with false teachers. Who also will tell you faith is not enough, we must also have works. Only today, instead of circumcision (which represented cleansing to the OT CHurch. We have water baptism (which represents cleansing to the new testament church)

James says faith without works is dead...which epistle did you write....

The same warning goes out to all. If you attempt to be baptised (to be saved) you have fallen from grace, and are indebted to keep the whole law (yes baptism was a part of the law. All priests had to be baptised. We today are a spiritual priesthood. and to be that spiritual priest, we must be taken through the ceremony of cleansing (baptism), the sacrifice, and the annointing, as all priest in Judea were done to be consecrated)

Peter says repent and be baptised for the remission of sins

but since the word baptised is used, and not circumcision. They ignore it and say it is not the same. Not so. Paul tells us in Col that we are cleansed with the spiritual cleansing not done by the hands of men, by the baptism of God,

baptism is used because Jesus said...
[SUP]14 [/SUP]Afterward he appeared unto the eleven as they sat at meat, and upbraided them with their unbelief and hardness of heart, because they believed not them which had seen him after he was risen.

[SUP]15 [/SUP]And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature.
[SUP]16 [/SUP]He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.

in one post three times you deny the word...

 

[blue_ladybug]

my[/U] house, my door is always open to my kids like Gods is open to me, but I do have a choice to leave, but I cannot leave something where I never was, your theology is full of holes that must be filled with man made doctrine and not that of Christ.

You contradict yourself in this first sentence. You say they are not welcome in your house, then you say your door is ALWAYS open to your kids. That's a conflicting statement. God never closes his door to YOU, does he? I'm sure you grieve him sometimes. We ALL do. Yet he never tells you, "your not welcome in My house anymore."

 

[newbirth]

As far as the aorist/past tense debate goes. It is quite silly we are even having this discussion.

Aorist is something which has been completed in the past. it is a finished work. which started in the past. continues today and will continue.

It is silly because of what paul said, if you really look at it and studied it, you would be amazed as to how silly it is and how foolish you feel that you ever saw it that way.

Paul said: (and lets look at this closely)

if you (future tense) get circumcised, you have (aorist tense, something which occured in the past and continues right now, even before you were circumcised) fallen from grace.

meaning? You heard grace in the past. But never received it, You fell off the grace standard of the gospel. and continued in the works part. thus you were never saved.

amazing how just a little open minded study, and these arguments would never exist, because they are based on a misinterpretation of the words.

Paul is saying, if you do something in the future, the thing offered in the past was not accomplish, you FELL short of that mark. thus fell from that mark. which in this case is grace

you ignorance is growing if anything......if they were never saved ,why would Paul say they are fallen from grace...seeing we are saved by grace...through faith.....try explaining that to a man who was never saved...hey there are you saved....No ....well you know we are save by grace and since you are a goody two shoe you are fallen from grace because you are working to earn your salvation...

 

[newbirth]

You contradict yourself in this first sentence. You say they are not welcome in your house, then you say your door is ALWAYS open to your kids. That's a conflicting statement. God never closes his door to YOU, does he? I'm sure you grieve him sometimes. We ALL do. Yet he never tells you, "your not welcome in My house anymore."

let us suppose your child is going down the wrong road and you say to him son I don't like the things you are doing and if you continue that way you are not welcome in my house....my house is always open when you change your ways...(I don't see that discussion with one under 18)...under18 you live in my house you live by my rules...

 

[Jabberjaw]

You contradict yourself in this first sentence. You say they are not welcome in your house, then you say your door is ALWAYS open to your kids. That's a conflicting statement. God never closes his door to YOU, does he? I'm sure you grieve him sometimes. We ALL do. Yet he never tells you, "your not welcome in My house anymore."

You're not paying attention, I said "if my kids grieve me" that means if they disobey me they are not welcome, I said my door is always open to them, all they have to do is obey me in my house, my rules.... Just like God and His children, they are always welcome, it is His will for all men to be saved :

1 Timothy 2:4 (NKJV)
4 who desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth.


but all men will not obey, All are invited to His house if they obey Him, those do not obey Him are not welcome in His house, His rules...

Romans 12:19 (NKJV)
19 Beloved, do not avenge yourselves, but rather give place to wrath; for it is written, "Vengeance is Mine, I will repay," says the Lord.

Romans 13:4 (NKJV)
4 For he is God's minister to you for good. But if you do evil, be afraid; for he does not bear the sword in vain; for he is God's minister, an avenger to execute wrath on him who practices evil.


Ephesians 5:6 (NKJV)
6 Let no one deceive you with empty words, for because of these things the wrath of God comes upon the sons of disobedience.