Christ was tempted LIKE as we are, but He never desired or was tempted to do evil.

[dcontroversal]

All external temptations by the devil. Jesus did not consider in ever doing them.



No, Jesus did not weak here in desiring to NOT go to the cross. He immediately then said, let your will be done. Jesus was asking if there was another way, but then knew immediately that there was not another way. So He said to the Father, let your will be done. Jesus was still within the Father's will here. For if Jesus said, I refuse this cup and let it pass from me. Then that would be a different story. That would be weakness. For if Jesus did not desire to go to the cross at all or save us in some way, then He would have been hypocritical for rebuking Peter for the fact that he desired Jesus to not go to the cross. For what did Jesus call Peter when Peter did not want him to go to the cross?

Also, you did not answer my questions above. Please answer them.

Whatever dude...everybody in here sees the fallacy of your moot argument, real WORLD examples as opposed to biblical examples, your rejection of scripture in context, your rejection of words in context and your in ability to acknowledge truth...makes me think of Jehovah's Witnesses......EVEN people who I normally disagree with when it comes to salvation can see right through your heretical stance....believe what you will as I am done casting scripture out to be trampled underfoot by your heretical opposition to truth......!

 

[dcontroversal]

God did not DIRECTLY create evil. God uses the evil that came into existence by free willed QUOTE]

More rejection of truth...the norm from you for sure........Isaiah 45:7

 

[Jason0047]

And I said nothing of majority. I stated what was given by the Holy Spirit. In fact, it is not the majority either. Which is why your statement of few applies.

The council was a majority ruling by religious men.

I don't. The text has meaning because it has always had the same meaning from the beginning. It has never changed from the beginning and surely no individual man has ever imposed his interpretation upon scripture.
Which is not like you and every sola scripturists. Every false teacher quotes scripture as well which I already stated. My assumption is that Christ already understood what it meant. You are trying to figure out what it meant as every sola scripturists does and thus you have all the thousands of interpretations of a single Book. You could not prove your point from scripture any more than a Jehovah Witness could either disprove yours or prove his own.

More Scripture please, and less opinion. If you don't post Scripture, I will not respond. For we are in the Bible discussion forum. That means we talk about the Bible.

 

[SolidGround]

All external temptations by the devil. Jesus did not consider in ever doing them.



No, Jesus did not weak here in desiring to NOT go to the cross. He immediately then said, let your will be done. Jesus was asking if there was another way, but then knew immediately that there was not another way. So He said to the Father, let your will be done. Jesus was still within the Father's will here. For if Jesus said, I refuse this cup and let it pass from me. Then that would be a different story. That would be weakness. For if Jesus did not desire to go to the cross at all or save us in some way, then He would have been hypocritical for rebuking Peter for the fact that he desired Jesus to not go to the cross. For what did Jesus call Peter when Peter did not want him to go to the cross?

Also, you did not answer my questions above. Please answer them.

He was sweating blood. Sounds like He had quite an internal struggle... but prevailed!
Did Christ not face our struggles?
Does He not really know what it means to be human?

Temptation is not the sin. Giving into the desires of the flesh is the sin.
The Word says it. Believe it.

The Word says He was perfect. He was perfect.
The Word says He was tempted. He was tempted.
Let it be what it is.

 

[Jason0047]

God did not DIRECTLY create evil. God uses the evil that came into existence by free willed QUOTE]

More rejection of truth...the norm from you for sure........Isaiah 45:7

A good tree cannot bring forth bad fruit and vise versa. All sin and evil come from man; And not God. Did God directly create Adam and Eve as sinful beings? Or did they choose sin? Was Lucifer already full of iniquity when he was created? Or was iniquity found in him one day (Because he chose to be like the Most Hight)?

 

[dcontroversal]

He was sweating blood. Sounds like He had quite an internal struggle... but prevailed!
Did Christ not face our struggles?
Does He not really know what it means to be human?

Temptation is not the sin. Giving into the desires of the flesh is the sin.
The Word says it. Believe it.

The Word says He was perfect. He was perfect.
The Word says He was tempted. He was tempted.
Let it be what it is.

Don't worry as he would argue with a fence post that it was not a fence post!

 

[dcontroversal]

A good tree cannot bring forth bad fruit and vise versa. All sin and evil come from man; And not God. Did God directly create Adam and Eve as sinful beings? Or did they choose sin? Was Lucifer already full of iniquity when he was created? Or was iniquity found in him one day (Because he chose to be like the Most Hight)?

I will pull a Jason.....so you are saying God was lying in Isaiah 45:7......I form the LIGHT, and CREATE DARKNESS: I make peace and create EVIL: I the Lord do all these things....

Evil=as a noun EVIL, BAD

 

[Jason0047]

He was sweating blood. Sounds like He had quite an internal struggle... but prevailed!
Did Christ not face our struggles?
Does He not really know what it means to be human?

Temptation is not the sin. Giving into the desires of the flesh is the sin.
The Word says it. Believe it.

The Word says He was perfect. He was perfect.
The Word says He was tempted. He was tempted.
Let it be what it is.

Uh, the Holy Son of God was taking on our sins (with the cup) into his body. This was painful for Him because the Holy Son of God was never tainted with sin before. He took on our sins in his body in that moment. He who knew no sin, was made to be sin for us.

 

[Jason0047]

I will pull a Jason.....so you are saying God was lying in Isaiah 45:7......I form the LIGHT, and CREATE DARKNESS: I make peace and create EVIL: I the Lord do all these things....

Evil=as a noun EVIL, BAD

Okay, lets look at Isaiah 45:7.

Isaiah 45:7
"I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things."

Now, you say that the word "evil" here is meant to be "evil" as we would understand that word today.

However, lets just look at the context of this passage without knowing what the word "evil" really means by leaving it blank. This is what it would look like:

Isaiah 45:7
"I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create ______: I the LORD do all these things."

Now, lets say you were taking a test and you were asked to fill in the following based on the related information you were given above.

I would see that the opposite of light is darkness. For Isaiah 45:7 sets the standard of letting me know that God forms the light and the darkness. Light is in contrast or opposite to darkness. Okay, now that we have our structure of how this sentence is built, what is the opposite or contrast to Peace? For the next word has to contrast peace because we know Light contrasts darkness. Right? So what contrasts peace?

War, or calamity, or something that is not peaceful or calm. Does war mean something is evil? No. Good guys can fight for good causes to eliminate that which is evil or bad. So the word "evil" here is in context to what is the opposite of peace. Do you get it? This is how one reads the context of something. You look at the surrounding words and let them determine what that word is saying. One does not look at the word at face value and try and force a meaning that does not fit within the sentence. For words can look and sound the same but they can have multiple meanings. Especially during the time of the 1600's when the KJV was being written (Which influenced some later versions in their translations).

I hope this helps.
And may God bless you.

 

[Jason0047]

Whatever dude...everybody in here sees the fallacy of your moot argument, real WORLD examples as opposed to biblical examples, your rejection of scripture in context, your rejection of words in context and your in ability to acknowledge truth...makes me think of Jehovah's Witnesses......EVEN people who I normally disagree with when it comes to salvation can see right through your heretical stance....believe what you will as I am done casting scripture out to be trampled underfoot by your heretical opposition to truth......!

Well, Jesus used real world examples all the time to illustrate spiritual truth. You might have heard of them. They are called parables, my friend.

 

[dcontroversal]

Okay, lets look at Isaiah 45:7.

Isaiah 45:7
"I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things."

Now, you say that the word "evil" here is meant to be "evil" as we would understand that word today.

However, lets just look at the context of this passage without knowing what the word "evil" really means by leaving it blank. This is what it would look like:

Isaiah 45:7
"I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create ______: I the LORD do all these things."

Now, lets say you were taking a test and you were asked to fill in the following based on the related information you were given above.

I would see that the opposite of light is darkness. For Isaiah 45:7 sets the standard of letting me know that God forms the light and the darkness. Light is in contrast or opposite to darkness. Okay, now that we have our structure of how this sentence is built, what is the opposite or contrast to Peace? For the next word has to contrast peace because we know Light contrasts darkness. Right? So what contrasts peace?

War, or calamity, or something that is not peaceful or calm. Does war mean something is evil? No. Good guys can fight for good causes to eliminate that which is evil or bad. So the word "evil" here is in context to what is the opposite of peace. Do you get it? This is how one reads the context of something. You look at the surrounding words and let them determine what that word is saying. One does not look at the word at face value and try and force a meaning that does not fit within the sentence. For words can look and sound the same but they can have multiple meanings. Especially during the time of the 1600's when the KJV was being written (Which influenced some later versions in their translations).

I hope this helps.
And may God bless you.

Sure and the first part of the verse speaks of LIGHT and DARKNESS

Walk in the LIGHT and HE is In the Light....but when thy eye is evil, the body is also full of darkness...NOTHING can be except God allows it and or brings it into existence....NOTHING

 

[Brainfreeze]

God did not DIRECTLY create evil. God uses the evil that came into existence by free willed beings (That chose evil). God can use the evil (That was already put forth in motion by free willed beings) for His good purposes. But God does not actually create evil beings directly, nor does God actually do evil. Neither does God use (already pre-existing evil from man) for bad purposes but only for good purposes. The Scriptures say there is no darkness in God. God is Good, Love, Life, Light, and Righteousness. All the evil in this world comes from man (That man chose). One day, there will be no more evil. One day there will be no more death, disease, pain, suffering, darkness, etc. Why? Because God is good; And not evil.

I can make a picture of a monster.. Doesn't mean I'm a monster, Jesus/God made everything, it will all glorify Him in the end, and serve His purpose rather we want it to or not. Yes, Jesus had free will, He made all the right choices being God and man, it's a bit complexed, I understand that we don't know it all. Jesus came, saw, and conquered sin. He's the best figuratively, Spiritually, and literally in the flesh.

 

[Jason0047]

Sure and the first part of the verse speaks of LIGHT and DARKNESS

Walk in the LIGHT and HE is In the Light....but when thy eye is evil, the body is also full of darkness...NOTHING can be except God allows it and or brings it into existence....NOTHING

First, your reply here in no way explains your wrong interpretation on Isaiah 45:7. Second, I was already thinking of this passage earlier in our discussion and it actually proves my point that there is no darkness in God for Him to directly create evil. This also passage also proves that Jesus did not have any potential desire to do evil, nor in having a carnal (sinful) nature, either. For if one's eye is dark, then the whole body is in darkness. Meaning, if Jesus had a small spot of darkness in his human nature to be tempted, then He would have been in complete darkness. God is light; And there is no darkness in Him.

 

[Brainfreeze]

I don't want it to feel like everyone's ganging up on you Jason, but your wrong here, very wrong. Your taking away from what He did, are you telling me as those cat tails struck His back that the Romans thrusted upon Him, He didn't feel because He was God ? Are you telling me Jesus didn't weep ? Are you telling me the world wasn't put before Him with a offer ? All of this happened, literally.

 

[Jason0047]

I can make a picture of a monster.. Doesn't mean I'm a monster,

There is a big difference in creating a drawing of a monster and in creating one. If you created a monster to do evil, then you would be evil. For example: Let's say I created a robot and programmed it to do only good. However, someone came along and reprogrammed the robot to do evil. Would I be responsible for making that robot evil? No. I created it for good. But let's say I created the robot to do evil specifically as if that was it's only choice. Would I not be evil for creating a robot that set out to do evil things? Now, let's say I created a robot that had the choice to do either good or evil (with both choices being equal perfectly). Would I be responsible for the evil that it does knowing that the robot could have done good?

Jesus/God made everything, it will all glorify Him in the end, and serve His purpose rather we want it to or not. Yes, Jesus had free will, He made all the right choices being God and man, it's a bit complexed, I understand that we don't know it all. Jesus came, saw, and conquered sin. He's the best figuratively, Spiritually, and literally in the flesh.

Jesus was not some good spiritual guy amongst many spiritual people. Jesus was God Almighty in the flesh who died for my sins and was risen three days later to prove that He was God.

 

[Brainfreeze]

There is a big difference in creating a drawing of a monster and in creating one. If you created a monster to do evil, then you would be evil. For example: Let's say I created a robot and programmed it to do only good. However, someone came along and reprogrammed the robot to do evil. Would I be responsible for making that robot evil? No. I created it for good. But let's say I created the robot to do evil specifically as if that was it's only choice. Would I not be evil for creating a robot that set out to do evil things? Now, let's say I created a robot that had the choice to do either good or evil (with both choices being equal perfectly). Would I be responsible for the evil that it does knowing that the robot could have done good?



Jesus was not some good spiritual guy amongst many spiritual people. Jesus was God Almighty in the flesh who died for my sins and was risen three days later to prove that He was God.

He doesn't make anyone do anything, all that comes by nature of self and free will Jason, a choice... That will serve His purpose regardless.

 

[Jason0047]

I don't want it to feel like everyone's ganging up on you Jason, but your wrong here, very wrong. Your taking away from what He did, are you telling me as those cat tails struck His back that the Romans thrusted upon Him, He didn't feel because He was God ? Are you telling me Jesus didn't weep ? Are you telling me the world wasn't put before Him with a offer ? All of this happened, literally.

Jesus felt tired, felt pain, felt thirsty, and felt hungry. These are the external things of the flesh. As for sorrow. God felt sorrow long before the incarnation. God does not change. God's sorrow were manifested with tears by the flesh. There is nothing in Scripture about Jesus fighting against some kind of sin nature or evil within his human spirit (nature) or body. You won't find a verse like that.

 

[Brainfreeze]

Jesus felt tired, felt pain, felt thirsty, and felt hungry. These are the external things of the flesh. As for sorrow. God felt sorrow long before the incarnation. God does not change. God's sorrow were manifested with tears by the flesh. There is nothing in Scripture about Jesus fighting against some kind of sin nature or evil within his human spirit (nature) or body. You won't find a verse like that.

It was never a thought, Jesus... Man/God trained His mind " in the flesh ",He was still tempted. The scriptures say He was right ? Why are you fighting it. This external talk is your own stinking thinking...

 

[SolidGround]

Uh, the Holy Son of God was taking on our sins (with the cup) into his body. This was painful for Him because the Holy Son of God was never tainted with sin before. He took on our sins in his body in that moment. He who knew no sin, was made to be sin for us.

Where does the Scripture say this?
I know that there are several denominations that hold to this view,
but it was on the cross that He took on our sins, and bore them away.

He took on our sins at Calvary, not in the Garden, or in the upper room.

He was struggling with the knowledge of what was about to happen,
but He triumphed over it, and was the obedient Son of God, the very image of the Father in all things.

Jesus was not some good spiritual guy amongst many spiritual people.

no one is saying this.
I don't understand how you take this out of anything that was said.

 

[Jason0047]

I don't want it to feel like everyone's ganging up on you Jason,

Jesus was "ganged up on." So I am in good company, my friend.