What about Job?
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The Book of Job isn't so much about Job as it is about the devil.
It's about how the devil thinks he is doing God's work and how he completely mucks it up and is completely clueless to the fact.
It's about how the vast majority of people, including many that are considered old and wise, hop right onto the Devils bandwagon and can't be dissuaded from it even with powerful arguments and probably won't realize till the very end that they are in the wrong.
Its about how the devil keeps "moving the goalposts" so that it's impossible to please the devil no matter how hard you try
We are told that job is innocent and yet God allows him to suffer. In the end God appears before him and gives him a speech at the end of which Job appears perfectly satisfied. This has confused a lot of people because nothing that God says in any way answers jobs questions. But this just means that the answers must be in the vision God showed job.
the Lord said to Satan, “Have you considered my servant Job? There is no one on earth like him; he is blameless and upright, a man who fears God and shuns evil.”
9 “Does Job fear God for nothing?” Satan replied. 10 “Have you not put a hedge around him and his household and everything he has? You have blessed the work of his hands, so that his flocks and herds are spread throughout the land. 11 But now stretch out your hand and strike everything he has, and he will surely curse you to your face.”
12 The Lord said to Satan, “Very well, then, everything he has is in your power...
Then Satan went out from the presence of the Lord and took away all Jobs oxen and donkeys.
Job did not curse God so Satan moved the goalposts and took away Jobs sheep and servants.
Job did not curse God so Satan moved the goalposts and took away Jobs camels.
Job did not curse God so Satan moved the goalposts and took away Jobs sons and daughters.
Job did not curse God so Satan moved the goalposts and struck Job with sores.
It's about how the devil thinks he is doing God's work and how he completely mucks it up and is completely clueless to the fact.
It's about how the vast majority of people, including many that are considered old and wise, hop right onto the Devils bandwagon and can't be dissuaded from it even with powerful arguments and probably won't realize till the very end that they are in the wrong.
Its about how the devil keeps "moving the goalposts" so that it's impossible to please the devil no matter how hard you try
We are told that job is innocent and yet God allows him to suffer. In the end God appears before him and gives him a speech at the end of which Job appears perfectly satisfied. This has confused a lot of people because nothing that God says in any way answers jobs questions. But this just means that the answers must be in the vision God showed job.
the Lord said to Satan, “Have you considered my servant Job? There is no one on earth like him; he is blameless and upright, a man who fears God and shuns evil.”
9 “Does Job fear God for nothing?” Satan replied. 10 “Have you not put a hedge around him and his household and everything he has? You have blessed the work of his hands, so that his flocks and herds are spread throughout the land. 11 But now stretch out your hand and strike everything he has, and he will surely curse you to your face.”
12 The Lord said to Satan, “Very well, then, everything he has is in your power...
Then Satan went out from the presence of the Lord and took away all Jobs oxen and donkeys.
Job did not curse God so Satan moved the goalposts and took away Jobs sheep and servants.
Job did not curse God so Satan moved the goalposts and took away Jobs camels.
Job did not curse God so Satan moved the goalposts and took away Jobs sons and daughters.
Job did not curse God so Satan moved the goalposts and struck Job with sores.
I heard yesterday a physician, Neil deGrasse, saying that God is not all-loving since He allows bad things to happen to people which is why He doesn't believe in God (the "christian" god, like he said).
The story of Job is actually the story of each one of us who passed through really hard times, undeserved, unbearable and absurd suffering, bref, times when you feel you lost everything, including yourself. In these times, nothing, absolutely nothing, can motivate you to keep going on, to stand up. Nothing, but faith and hope in yourself, in God. Neil deGrasse also said, in a certain context (not related to Job) that faith and reason are irreconciliable. I agree with him, but only if we put these two (the reason and the faith) in the correct context: the context of Job. Faith and hope are unreasonable when you literally lost everything, when you feel alone, when you feel God gave up on you. And yet, it is faith and hope (NOT reason, NOT a lucid mathematical calculus) that actually get you back on your feet, get you angry against the absurdity of life and makes out of you a fighter.
Job's story is about hope and faith (these irrational feelings) that make you stand up even when, apparently, there is nothing left to stand up for. Faith, hope and love are the weapons that God gave to us in order to win against the forces of evil.
The story of Job is actually the story of each one of us who passed through really hard times, undeserved, unbearable and absurd suffering, bref, times when you feel you lost everything, including yourself. In these times, nothing, absolutely nothing, can motivate you to keep going on, to stand up. Nothing, but faith and hope in yourself, in God. Neil deGrasse also said, in a certain context (not related to Job) that faith and reason are irreconciliable. I agree with him, but only if we put these two (the reason and the faith) in the correct context: the context of Job. Faith and hope are unreasonable when you literally lost everything, when you feel alone, when you feel God gave up on you. And yet, it is faith and hope (NOT reason, NOT a lucid mathematical calculus) that actually get you back on your feet, get you angry against the absurdity of life and makes out of you a fighter.
Job's story is about hope and faith (these irrational feelings) that make you stand up even when, apparently, there is nothing left to stand up for. Faith, hope and love are the weapons that God gave to us in order to win against the forces of evil.
6 “None of you shall approach any one of his close relatives to uncover nakedness. I am the Lord. 7 You shall not uncover the nakedness of your father, which is the nakedness of your mother; she is your mother, you shall not uncover her nakedness. 8 You shall not uncover the nakedness of your father's wife; it is your father's nakedness. 9 You shall not uncover the nakedness of your sister, your father's daughter or your mother's daughter, whether brought up in the family or in another home. 10 You shall not uncover the nakedness of your son's daughter or of your daughter's daughter, for their nakedness is your own nakedness.
24 “Do not make yourselves unclean by any of these things, for by all these the nations I am driving out before you have become unclean, 25 and the land became unclean, so that I punished its iniquity, and the land vomited out its inhabitants. 26 But you shall keep my statutes and my rules and do none of these abominations, either the native or the stranger who sojourns among you 27 (for the people of the land, who were before you, did all of these abominations, so that the land became unclean), 28 lest the land vomit you out when you make it unclean, as it vomited out the nation that was before you. 29 For everyone who does any of these abominations, the persons who do them shall be cut off from among their people.
24 Then Joshua, together with all Israel, took Achan son of Zerah, the silver, the robe, the gold bar, his sons and daughters, his cattle, donkeys and sheep, his tent and all that he had, to the Valley of Achor. 25 Joshua said, “Why have you brought this trouble on us? The Lord will bring trouble on you today.”
Then all Israel stoned him, and after they had stoned the rest, they burned them. 26 Over Achan they heaped up a large pile of rocks, which remains to this day. Then the Lord turned from his fierce anger. Therefore that place has been called the Valley of Achor ever since.
Job 1:5 When a period of feasting had run its course, Job would make arrangements for them to be purified. Early in the morning he would sacrifice a burnt offering for each of them, thinking, “Perhaps my children have sinned and cursed God in their hearts.” This was Job’s regular custom.
If someone has sinned against God, they are immediately cut off from the vine; Job couldn't judge his family, but God understand what Job was feeling inside, but God couldn't have Job to be killed for disobedience, and so God had unleashed satan to do the work that Job couldn't do.
24 “Do not make yourselves unclean by any of these things, for by all these the nations I am driving out before you have become unclean, 25 and the land became unclean, so that I punished its iniquity, and the land vomited out its inhabitants. 26 But you shall keep my statutes and my rules and do none of these abominations, either the native or the stranger who sojourns among you 27 (for the people of the land, who were before you, did all of these abominations, so that the land became unclean), 28 lest the land vomit you out when you make it unclean, as it vomited out the nation that was before you. 29 For everyone who does any of these abominations, the persons who do them shall be cut off from among their people.
24 Then Joshua, together with all Israel, took Achan son of Zerah, the silver, the robe, the gold bar, his sons and daughters, his cattle, donkeys and sheep, his tent and all that he had, to the Valley of Achor. 25 Joshua said, “Why have you brought this trouble on us? The Lord will bring trouble on you today.”
Then all Israel stoned him, and after they had stoned the rest, they burned them. 26 Over Achan they heaped up a large pile of rocks, which remains to this day. Then the Lord turned from his fierce anger. Therefore that place has been called the Valley of Achor ever since.
Job 1:5 When a period of feasting had run its course, Job would make arrangements for them to be purified. Early in the morning he would sacrifice a burnt offering for each of them, thinking, “Perhaps my children have sinned and cursed God in their hearts.” This was Job’s regular custom.
If someone has sinned against God, they are immediately cut off from the vine; Job couldn't judge his family, but God understand what Job was feeling inside, but God couldn't have Job to be killed for disobedience, and so God had unleashed satan to do the work that Job couldn't do.
4And his sons went and feasted in their houses, every one( his day);
and sent and called for their three sisters to eat and to drink with them.
- was this a birthday party?
5And it was so, when the days of their feasting were gone about, that Job sent and sanctified them, and rose up early in the morning, and offered burnt offerings according to the number of them all:
for Job said, It may be that my sons have sinned, and cursed God in their hearts. Thus did Job continually.
- should have Job told sons there sin and corected them,
instead of covering for them
8And the Lord said unto Satan, Hast thou considered my servant Job, that there is none like him in the earth, a perfect and an upright man, one that feareth God, and escheweth evil?
- there was something God had againest Job
what was it ?
and sent and called for their three sisters to eat and to drink with them.
- was this a birthday party?
5And it was so, when the days of their feasting were gone about, that Job sent and sanctified them, and rose up early in the morning, and offered burnt offerings according to the number of them all:
for Job said, It may be that my sons have sinned, and cursed God in their hearts. Thus did Job continually.
- should have Job told sons there sin and corected them,
instead of covering for them
8And the Lord said unto Satan, Hast thou considered my servant Job, that there is none like him in the earth, a perfect and an upright man, one that feareth God, and escheweth evil?
- there was something God had againest Job
what was it ?
Okay - As I read all these comments of which many are very good, yet different, I'm convinced that you will get out of Job what God wants you to see at the place you are in your pilgrimage.
When I read Job years earlier, I saw that questions were not answered at the end....that God just wanted to reveal more of Himself, and leaves some things unanswered to men.
Then I read it later, and saw how through all the pain we could be going through, faith pays dividends in the long run.
Another time I saw that like Job, we can throw our questions out to God, and pour out our feelings honestly - not to deny them.
Every time I read it, I glean something the Holy Spirit wants me to meditate on for that day.
Like prisms on a diamond as you turn it this way and then that.
When I read Job years earlier, I saw that questions were not answered at the end....that God just wanted to reveal more of Himself, and leaves some things unanswered to men.
Then I read it later, and saw how through all the pain we could be going through, faith pays dividends in the long run.
Another time I saw that like Job, we can throw our questions out to God, and pour out our feelings honestly - not to deny them.
Every time I read it, I glean something the Holy Spirit wants me to meditate on for that day.
Like prisms on a diamond as you turn it this way and then that.
I think you may have missed the point of the book, which is to address the question of why the righteous suffer. We are told at the outset that Job was righteous:
1:1 There was a man[SUP] [/SUP]in the land of Uz[SUP] [/SUP]whose[SUP] [/SUP]name was Job. And that man was pure[SUP] [/SUP]and upright, one who feared God and turned away from evil.
Through all of Job's trials, his friends maintain that God must be punishing Job for something he did. The logic of Job's friends is obvious - the righteous wouldn't suffer egregiously or for no reason at all; God wouldn't allow that. But in spite of his friend's insistence, Job maintains that he has done nothing wrong. Job gets to the point of wanting a hearing before God so he can argue his case and even thinks God may be out to get him. Not only that, but Job recognizes that the unrighteous seem to have it easy.
Eventually, God responds to both Job and his friends. To Job's friends, God tells them that they are wrong (42:7). Job did nothing to deserve his suffering. To Job, God...well, he really doesn't answer the issue. He basically says that Job doesn't know the things God knows and doesn't have the power God has. Job is in no position to question God on the matter, and God leaves it at that. He doesn't explain to Job why Job is suffering, seemingly unjustly. The bottom line is that Job is in no position to question God and God is under no obligation to justify it to Job.
The book is really an answer to the problem of evil. Why do bad things occur to good people? Sometimes we don't know. We don't always know the required information, we're not in position to question God about it, and he's under no obligation to tell us. What we can trust is that he does have the required knowledge and power to do whatever needs to be done.
Was Job being punished? No
Did God hire satan? No
Was it Job's fault? No
Who wrecked his life? Various adversarial forces - other people, disease, death, fire, theft, weather.
Why did this happen to Job? We don't know.
1:1 There was a man[SUP] [/SUP]in the land of Uz[SUP] [/SUP]whose[SUP] [/SUP]name was Job. And that man was pure[SUP] [/SUP]and upright, one who feared God and turned away from evil.
Through all of Job's trials, his friends maintain that God must be punishing Job for something he did. The logic of Job's friends is obvious - the righteous wouldn't suffer egregiously or for no reason at all; God wouldn't allow that. But in spite of his friend's insistence, Job maintains that he has done nothing wrong. Job gets to the point of wanting a hearing before God so he can argue his case and even thinks God may be out to get him. Not only that, but Job recognizes that the unrighteous seem to have it easy.
Eventually, God responds to both Job and his friends. To Job's friends, God tells them that they are wrong (42:7). Job did nothing to deserve his suffering. To Job, God...well, he really doesn't answer the issue. He basically says that Job doesn't know the things God knows and doesn't have the power God has. Job is in no position to question God on the matter, and God leaves it at that. He doesn't explain to Job why Job is suffering, seemingly unjustly. The bottom line is that Job is in no position to question God and God is under no obligation to justify it to Job.
The book is really an answer to the problem of evil. Why do bad things occur to good people? Sometimes we don't know. We don't always know the required information, we're not in position to question God about it, and he's under no obligation to tell us. What we can trust is that he does have the required knowledge and power to do whatever needs to be done.
Was Job being punished? No
Did God hire satan? No
Was it Job's fault? No
Who wrecked his life? Various adversarial forces - other people, disease, death, fire, theft, weather.
Why did this happen to Job? We don't know.
sorry i was not trying to take Job's friends position.
i asked about sons birthdays, not sure that was covered in rest of Job.
but my main question was what or why Job would
6Wherefore I abhor myself, and repent in dust and ashes.?
it he did not do anything wrong, for all have sinned.
i don't have anything against, was just asking questions
with the thread
i asked about sons birthdays, not sure that was covered in rest of Job.
but my main question was what or why Job would
6Wherefore I abhor myself, and repent in dust and ashes.?
it he did not do anything wrong, for all have sinned.
i don't have anything against, was just asking questions
with the thread