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Proverbs 16:1 The preparations of the heart in man, and the answer of the tongue, is from the LORD.
When one becomes Born again, it is not by man or man will but from God.
John 1:12-13 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.
gennaó
When one becomes Born again, it is not by man or man will but from God.
John 1:12-13 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.
gennaó
E
Initial salvation? What initial salvation? we are either saved or we are not.
What are we saved from? is it not the wrath of God and the judgment to come? How can God say we are saved from that when it can be lost? We would not be saved at all. to be saved (in the literal sense) you have to be freed from the judgment to come for sin, completely. otherwise your not saved at all. and God lied.
I am amazed as to how people will take a word. destroy its literal meaning, and make it some allegorical word which means the total opposite of what it really means. why is that?
People need to heed the warning of paul. and stop being fools
Gal 3: 2 - 4 This only I want to learn from you: Did you receive the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?— Are you so foolish? Having begun in the Spirit, are you now being made perfect by the flesh? Have you suffered so many things in vain—if indeed it was in vain?
You do not even know what the word grace means, If your going to try to teach someone, it helps when you understand what words mean, Grace is unmerited favor, It is Gods mercy on someone who does not deserve the thing given, it is a gift to an undeserving person.
Our only obligation is to trust him, To have faith that he will fulfill his promise, not only to save us, but change us, Someone who does not wish to change does not have faith in God. and will prove it by their lack of change. True faith causes ACTION. A dead faith is lifeless, that is why it will NOT CAUSE ACTION. A dead faith is no faith at all. and thus will NOT SAVE YOU.
And who is denying this? You think I am denying this? We are commanded to do alot of things, But God does not kick us out of his family when we lack faith in certain areas. It takes time to grow in some areas. we will nto be perfect. So whats your point, this does not prove we can lose salvation. It proves we can be weak, and we are to keep looking forward and not look back.
No, I have never said this. You do not even read what people say, your like the rest of your brothers and sisters and make false accusations, because you are reading through blind eyes, I was like yuo once, I was deep in legalism, and could not even fathom a faith only person believing we needed to obey God, I too could not listen to them, because my mind was blinded by the men who taught me.
Paul wrote to the corinthian church, Did he called them unsaved people who did not go forward and work out their salvation? Did he tell them they were in danger of losing their salvation?
2 To the church of God which is at Corinth, to those who are sanctified in Christ Jesus, called to be saints, with all who in every place call on the name of Jesus Christ our Lord, both theirs and ours:
3 And I, brethren, could not speak to you as to spiritual people but as to carnal, as to babes in Christ. 2 I fed you with milk and not with solid food; for until now you were not able to receive it, and even now you are still not able; 3 for you are still carnal. For where there are envy, strife, and divisions among you, are you not carnal and behaving like mere men?
What about these men and women who are still "babes in Christ" Still carnal? Why Has God not kicked them out of his family? they have not grown. paul says they should be teaching people, instead they are not even able to comprehend the meat of the word, because they are still deep in sin?
Do yuo people ever read? I do not want to be carnal. niether does anyone here. we want fed meat, so we can teach others. and help them grow. but you will not hear that, Because you think all we care about is going out and living in sin. Because you do not know us at all
1. there is no such thing as initial salvation, your saved or your not saved,
2. No one who claims to be saved, yet does not have faith is saved, they are liars, and deceived.
3. Everyone who has a living faith WILL WORK. they start as babes, and must grow. Some grow faster than others, But they are saved, because they trusted God, and he saved them. He PURCHASED them with his blood, and they ARE HIS
Your right, and the torah states we must be perfect. Are you perfect? if not. You are without hope without CHrist, you better start having faith in him, and stop working to earn it, because you have already failed.
Thanks, you just proved my point. Faith is an action verb, A living faith WILL ACT, a dead (non existant) faith will not.
We are saved by faith. No faith (or a dead faith) will not save you, in this lifetime or the next. Faith ACTS.
What are we saved from? is it not the wrath of God and the judgment to come? How can God say we are saved from that when it can be lost? We would not be saved at all. to be saved (in the literal sense) you have to be freed from the judgment to come for sin, completely. otherwise your not saved at all. and God lied.
I am amazed as to how people will take a word. destroy its literal meaning, and make it some allegorical word which means the total opposite of what it really means. why is that?
People need to heed the warning of paul. and stop being fools
Gal 3: 2 - 4 This only I want to learn from you: Did you receive the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?— Are you so foolish? Having begun in the Spirit, are you now being made perfect by the flesh? Have you suffered so many things in vain—if indeed it was in vain?
You do not even know what the word grace means, If your going to try to teach someone, it helps when you understand what words mean, Grace is unmerited favor, It is Gods mercy on someone who does not deserve the thing given, it is a gift to an undeserving person.
Our only obligation is to trust him, To have faith that he will fulfill his promise, not only to save us, but change us, Someone who does not wish to change does not have faith in God. and will prove it by their lack of change. True faith causes ACTION. A dead faith is lifeless, that is why it will NOT CAUSE ACTION. A dead faith is no faith at all. and thus will NOT SAVE YOU.
And who is denying this? You think I am denying this? We are commanded to do alot of things, But God does not kick us out of his family when we lack faith in certain areas. It takes time to grow in some areas. we will nto be perfect. So whats your point, this does not prove we can lose salvation. It proves we can be weak, and we are to keep looking forward and not look back.
No, I have never said this. You do not even read what people say, your like the rest of your brothers and sisters and make false accusations, because you are reading through blind eyes, I was like yuo once, I was deep in legalism, and could not even fathom a faith only person believing we needed to obey God, I too could not listen to them, because my mind was blinded by the men who taught me.
Paul wrote to the corinthian church, Did he called them unsaved people who did not go forward and work out their salvation? Did he tell them they were in danger of losing their salvation?
2 To the church of God which is at Corinth, to those who are sanctified in Christ Jesus, called to be saints, with all who in every place call on the name of Jesus Christ our Lord, both theirs and ours:
3 And I, brethren, could not speak to you as to spiritual people but as to carnal, as to babes in Christ. 2 I fed you with milk and not with solid food; for until now you were not able to receive it, and even now you are still not able; 3 for you are still carnal. For where there are envy, strife, and divisions among you, are you not carnal and behaving like mere men?
What about these men and women who are still "babes in Christ" Still carnal? Why Has God not kicked them out of his family? they have not grown. paul says they should be teaching people, instead they are not even able to comprehend the meat of the word, because they are still deep in sin?
Do yuo people ever read? I do not want to be carnal. niether does anyone here. we want fed meat, so we can teach others. and help them grow. but you will not hear that, Because you think all we care about is going out and living in sin. Because you do not know us at all
1. there is no such thing as initial salvation, your saved or your not saved,
2. No one who claims to be saved, yet does not have faith is saved, they are liars, and deceived.
3. Everyone who has a living faith WILL WORK. they start as babes, and must grow. Some grow faster than others, But they are saved, because they trusted God, and he saved them. He PURCHASED them with his blood, and they ARE HIS
Your right, and the torah states we must be perfect. Are you perfect? if not. You are without hope without CHrist, you better start having faith in him, and stop working to earn it, because you have already failed.
Thanks, you just proved my point. Faith is an action verb, A living faith WILL ACT, a dead (non existant) faith will not.
We are saved by faith. No faith (or a dead faith) will not save you, in this lifetime or the next. Faith ACTS.
C
Just a quick one because I think we're talking past each other and getting no where.
Quotes from post #325 and your immediate reply was -
I was quoted as saying:
To sum up all of your replies to all of my posts on this thread and the countless Scriptures that the others and I have posted - you are saying that we do not need to be FAITHFUL - OBEDIENT - FEAR GOD - nor can we be cut out of the natural Olive Tree or Spued out of His mouth nor be taken out of the Book of Life "as it is written".
ALL of the scriptures that we have posted are to those that are ALREADY SAVED BY GRACE THROUGH FAITH and Not To Those That Aren't Saved Yet.
and your immediate reply was - that I really don't understand - and by "initial salvation" all I meant was the day that we come to Christ.
Quotes from post #325 and your immediate reply was -
I was quoted as saying:
To sum up all of your replies to all of my posts on this thread and the countless Scriptures that the others and I have posted - you are saying that we do not need to be FAITHFUL - OBEDIENT - FEAR GOD - nor can we be cut out of the natural Olive Tree or Spued out of His mouth nor be taken out of the Book of Life "as it is written".
ALL of the scriptures that we have posted are to those that are ALREADY SAVED BY GRACE THROUGH FAITH and Not To Those That Aren't Saved Yet.
and your immediate reply was - that I really don't understand - and by "initial salvation" all I meant was the day that we come to Christ.
C
I suppose I am confused by the use of the word "legalism" when I posted several times that - well, obedience is an act of faith and led by His Spirit.
If we follow Romans 8 - and are led by His Spirit - His Spirit will direct us toward obeying His N.T. commandments or 'works'.
If that's "legalism" - then I'm a legalist.
Can you see where this could confuse someone?
adding quote that caused my confusion;
No, I have never said this. You do not even read what people say, your like the rest of your brothers and sisters and make false accusations, because you are reading through blind eyes, I was like yuo once, I was deep in legalism, and could not even fathom a faith only person believing we needed to obey God, I too could not listen to them, because my mind was blinded by the men who taught me.
If we follow Romans 8 - and are led by His Spirit - His Spirit will direct us toward obeying His N.T. commandments or 'works'.
If that's "legalism" - then I'm a legalist.
Can you see where this could confuse someone?
adding quote that caused my confusion;
No, I have never said this. You do not even read what people say, your like the rest of your brothers and sisters and make false accusations, because you are reading through blind eyes, I was like yuo once, I was deep in legalism, and could not even fathom a faith only person believing we needed to obey God, I too could not listen to them, because my mind was blinded by the men who taught me.
E
Legalism states our salvation depends on a legal system of rules and regulations, whatever they may be. These works do not glorify God, they glorify self.
Licentious states all we have to believe in Christ, and we are saved no matter what we do. I am free, so I can live however I want, my sin does not matter
Faith states we are saved by faith in the completed work of God. And nothing else. And out of this faith comes true obedience. which glorifies and praises God.
Like the legalist, The faith people belief it takes work and obedience to God commands. Unlike licentious, the faith people reject that fact we can or should sin all we want, it does not matter.
Licentious states all we have to believe in Christ, and we are saved no matter what we do. I am free, so I can live however I want, my sin does not matter
Faith states we are saved by faith in the completed work of God. And nothing else. And out of this faith comes true obedience. which glorifies and praises God.
Like the legalist, The faith people belief it takes work and obedience to God commands. Unlike licentious, the faith people reject that fact we can or should sin all we want, it does not matter.
salvation is in Christ....if you are not in fellowship with Christ ...who are you in fellowship with???there is no middle ground....those who are in fellowship with him are in the light....when you break fellowship ...are you still in the light...and if you are still in the light ...then why are you repenting to restore fellowship....to come into a light that you are already in....what is amazing is you think you can sin be in darkness out of fellowship with Christ and still be in Christ saved and secure....salvation is in Christ ...there is no darkness in Christ....if you have sin in you you cannot be in Christ...sin separates us from Christ....Why do you think Jesus said this....
Matthew 5:22
But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire.
It is because we tend to overlook little things which can be a danger to our salvation...
2 Timothy 1:1
Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ by the will of God, according to the promise of life which is in Christ Jesus,
2 Timothy 3:15
And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.
2 John 1:9
Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God. He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son.
Romans 3:24
Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:
Matthew 5:22
But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire.
It is because we tend to overlook little things which can be a danger to our salvation...
2 Timothy 1:1
Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ by the will of God, according to the promise of life which is in Christ Jesus,
2 Timothy 3:15
And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.
2 John 1:9
Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God. He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son.
Romans 3:24
Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:
C
E.G. - I've been reading so much elsewhere today that I haven't paid much mind to the reply posts to me on this page.
On this pg 17 & pg 14, you are accusing me of attacking you, plus several other digs & questioning my salvation with slurs about "by works" ...
Please look at your posts to me on page 14 #267 & 279 and your comments to me on pg 17 as well.
I posted Scripture in one post and you came back with #267. And more Scripture and got #279 and more Scripture and got pg 17's two replies.
Those reply posts are attacks from you for my posting Scripture.
Please, let's talk to each other like Brother & Sister and not think that any Scripture cancels out other Scripture posted by another. I don't disagree with any Scriptures that you have or will post - but I see where you said that my Verses cancel out yours.... boy, this is getting sticky.
My first / earliest post on this thread was on His "foreknowledge" and that His "elect" are those whom He "foreknew" would be faithful unto the end. All Scripture only --- so that's how I can reconcile my beliefs with those of the Reformed people, in that -- He said, we are "Elect according to the foreknowlege of God" and if that's the case - "those who He foreknew" are osas ... BUT - even as Calvin said -- we won't know if we are or will be faithful unto the End = His Elect until we see Him, Face to face. And why "many shall fall away" and say unto Him, "Lord, Lord" on that day when He separates the sheep from the goats and the wheat from the tares, and the fish when He casts His net, etc., from His parables in Matthew 13, 25 and so forth and why we're to "work out our own salvation with fear and trembling --- FOR it is God which works in us both to will and to do of His Good pleasure" -- but, we does not over-ride our Freewill in these things.
I go to posting Scripture only when falsely accused or when it starts to get nasty.
Brotherly love is a prerequisite of being "In Him" --- as in Truly Saved. I have almost 200 Scriptures that prove that without love we are not saved.
btw - in reply to your 'perfect' comment --- the word 'perfect' can be defined as "living up to the light that we presently have" -- so the babes in Christ that you mentioned in your reply to me -- they're covered by that definition as well.
Peace.
On this pg 17 & pg 14, you are accusing me of attacking you, plus several other digs & questioning my salvation with slurs about "by works" ...
Please look at your posts to me on page 14 #267 & 279 and your comments to me on pg 17 as well.
I posted Scripture in one post and you came back with #267. And more Scripture and got #279 and more Scripture and got pg 17's two replies.
Those reply posts are attacks from you for my posting Scripture.
Please, let's talk to each other like Brother & Sister and not think that any Scripture cancels out other Scripture posted by another. I don't disagree with any Scriptures that you have or will post - but I see where you said that my Verses cancel out yours.... boy, this is getting sticky.
My first / earliest post on this thread was on His "foreknowledge" and that His "elect" are those whom He "foreknew" would be faithful unto the end. All Scripture only --- so that's how I can reconcile my beliefs with those of the Reformed people, in that -- He said, we are "Elect according to the foreknowlege of God" and if that's the case - "those who He foreknew" are osas ... BUT - even as Calvin said -- we won't know if we are or will be faithful unto the End = His Elect until we see Him, Face to face. And why "many shall fall away" and say unto Him, "Lord, Lord" on that day when He separates the sheep from the goats and the wheat from the tares, and the fish when He casts His net, etc., from His parables in Matthew 13, 25 and so forth and why we're to "work out our own salvation with fear and trembling --- FOR it is God which works in us both to will and to do of His Good pleasure" -- but, we does not over-ride our Freewill in these things.
I go to posting Scripture only when falsely accused or when it starts to get nasty.
Brotherly love is a prerequisite of being "In Him" --- as in Truly Saved. I have almost 200 Scriptures that prove that without love we are not saved.
btw - in reply to your 'perfect' comment --- the word 'perfect' can be defined as "living up to the light that we presently have" -- so the babes in Christ that you mentioned in your reply to me -- they're covered by that definition as well.
Peace.