144,000

[eternally-gratefull]

You didn't provide scripture, not that I disagree, but that's not a special purpose. To spread the Gospel is every Christians purpose, it's a common purpose. It was the purpose of the great multitude also mentioned in Revelation 6 because they are also Christians.

your right, but remember their must be a falling away, Even paul speaks of a time when the gentile will fall away and be cut off.

I believe (whether you believe in the rapture or not) this falling away is so severe, that the true church has lost its power, the pagan, new age, and licentious church has grown so powerful, that the true church has lost its power. because people do not want the real God. they want the God that suits their ideas and belief system.

This causes God, who is at this time, patient, willing non should perish, and thus allowing evil to flow rampant, Says enough is enough, this brings in the "last days" as the disciples call it in matt 24. and the things which Christ warned will come come.

The church is so lost (or gone because of rapture) that God uses two witnesses in jerusalem, then saves 144000, and also uses the many martyres as a witness to him in this age, that even during great tribulation. Many come to Christ. and are saved, ready and waiting for his return.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Well seem to go along with Kenneth who takes a millennial view,

If God makes another temple in the millenium, For people to worship him there (not sacrifice and offering, but worship JESUS who is in the temple as it is his house) then I am not going to tell him know.

Just say I am not sure what that temple is, Have not studied it very much, Have been told it is this or that temple. but have not felt the need to really study it in great detail.

 

[Bookends]

God did not say that when he made the promise

And he said in the OT, NT and even had paul declare. He will never forget that promise

That is a natural antitype of the spiritual also.

God will never leave us nor forsake us nor forget his promise to us, even when we go contrary to him, and walk away as prodigal children.

Again, To say Gods promise is no longer valid is a dangerous thing to teach, for it infers if we walk away and Go contrary to God in this lifetime, he may forsake his promise to us also.

That my friend is a scary thing, a God that does not keep his promises and covenants is not a God we can trust.

I KNOW you believe God will never leave nor forsake his promise to us I pray you see the type of God and his promise to a certain people. that he will never leave nor forsake that promise either.

God did say it, in other words, the promises are for the Church (which includes OT and NT Saints, not for a single nation, God does not show favoritism, especially now since the eternal purpose of God has been revealed, His church). The land promise was fulfilled as stated in Kings and Joshua, but further then that the land is a type for the whole world. Read carefully:

1 Kings 4:21
Now Solomon ruled over all the kingdoms from the [Euphrates] River to the land of the Philistines and to the border of Egypt; they brought tribute and served Solomon

Joshua 23
13 know for certain that the Lord your God will no longer drive out these nations from before you. But they shall be snares and traps to you, and scourges on your sides and thorns in your eyes, until you perish from this good land which theLord your God has given you.
14 “Behold, this day I am going the way of all the earth. And you know in all your hearts and in all your souls that not one thing has failed of all the good things which the Lord your God spoke concerning you. All have come to pass for you; not one word of them has failed.

Joshua 21:43-45
"So the LORD gave Israel all the land which He had sworn to give to their fathers, and they possessed it and lived in it. And the LORD gave them rest on every side, according to all that He had sworn to their fathers, and no one of all their enemies stood before them; the LORD gave all their enemies into their hand. Not one of the good promises which the LORD had made to the house of Israel failed; all came to pass. "

 

[Straightshot]

In the Lord's millennial kingdom there will be mortals of the nations who will need salvation just as humans do today

..... and His temple is described in Ezekiel 40

Even with the Lord's presence and governance, they will still rebel like humans do today

..... and He will require symbolic rites to remind the Israel and the nations of His purposes

If one cannot get this [or is unwilling to] in the following passage of scripture below, then we can see the natural man rebelling now

The preterist insists that a Bible prophet's future projections yet unfulfilled must be morphed into allegory and should be ignored .... because if literal and true, the preterist is finished with their story

Virtually none of Zechariah's events have ever been fulfilled as documented:


Zechariah
14:1 Behold, the day of the LORD cometh, and thy spoil shall be divided in the midst of thee.

14:2 For I will gather all nations against Jerusalem to battle; and the city shall be taken, and the houses rifled, and the women ravished; and half of the city shall go forth into captivity, and the residue of the people shall not be cut off from the city.

14:3 Then shall the LORD go forth, and fight against those nations, as when he fought in the day of battle.

14:4 And his feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives, which is before Jerusalem on the east, and the mount of Olives shall cleave in the midst thereof toward the east and toward the west, and there shall be a very great valley; and half of the mountain shall remove toward the north, and half of it toward the south.

14:5 And ye shall flee to the valley of the mountains; for the valley of the mountains shall reach unto Azal: yea, ye shall flee, like as ye fled from before the earthquake in the days of Uzziah king of Judah: and the LORD my God shall come, and all the saints with thee.

14:6 And it shall come to pass in that day, that the light shall not be clear, nor dark:

14:7 But it shall be one day which shall be known to the LORD, not day, nor night: but it shall come to pass, that at evening time it shall be light.

14:8 And it shall be in that day, that living waters shall go out from Jerusalem; half of them toward the former sea, and half of them toward the hinder sea: in summer and in winter shall it be.

14:9 And the LORD shall be king over all the earth: in that day shall there be one LORD, and his name one.

14:10 All the land shall be turned as a plain from Geba to Rimmon south of Jerusalem: and it shall be lifted up, and inhabited in her place, from Benjamin's gate unto the place of the first gate, unto the corner gate, and from the tower of Hananeel unto the king's winepresses.

14:11 And men shall dwell in it, and there shall be no more utter destruction; but Jerusalem shall be safely inhabited.

14:12 And this shall be the plague wherewith the LORD will smite all the people that have fought against Jerusalem; Their flesh shall consume away while they stand upon their feet, and their eyes shall consume away in their holes, and their tongue shall consume away in their mouth.

14:13 And it shall come to pass in that day, that a great tumult from the LORD shall be among them; and they shall lay hold every one on the hand of his neighbour, and his hand shall rise up against the hand of his neighbour.

14:14 And Judah also shall fight at Jerusalem; and the wealth of all the heathen round about shall be gathered together, gold, and silver, and apparel, in great abundance.

14:15 And so shall be the plague of the horse, of the mule, of the camel, and of the ass, and of all the beasts that shall be in these tents, as this plague.

14:16 And it shall come to pass, that every one that is left of all the nations which came against Jerusalem shall even go up from year to year to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, and to keep the feast of tabernacles.

14:17 And it shall be, that whoso will not come up of all the families of the earth unto Jerusalem to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, even upon them shall be no rain.

14:18 And if the family of Egypt go not up, and come not, that have no rain; there shall be the plague, wherewith the LORD will smite the heathen that come not up to keep the feast of tabernacles.

14:19 This shall be the punishment of Egypt, and the punishment of all nations that come not up to keep the feast of tabernacles.

14:20 In that day shall there be upon the bells of the horses, HOLINESS UNTO THE LORD; and the pots in the LORD's house shall be like the bowls before the altar.

14:21 Yea, every pot in Jerusalem and in Judah shall be holiness unto the LORD of hosts: and all they that sacrifice shall come and take of them, and seethe therein: and in that day there shall be no more the Canaanite in the house of the LORD of hosts.


Preterism ambition is to systematically destroy the Lord's more sure word of prophecy by making metaphorical mush out of the same .... and at the same time teaching another gospel altogether

This perverted teaching has been around since the early church and it is held by most sects of the professing church today .... big and small

..... and there is a particular and aggressive spewing of the doctrine at this time

Understand this perversion, know how to refute it, but do not follow it

.... and the 144000 are just as the scriptures define them

The preterist will debunk and morph

 

[Bookends]

your right, but remember their must be a falling away, Even paul speaks of a time when the gentile will fall away and be cut off.

I believe (whether you believe in the rapture or not) this falling away is so severe, that the true church has lost its power, the pagan, new age, and licentious church has grown so powerful, that the true church has lost its power. because people do not want the real God. they want the God that suits their ideas and belief system.

This causes God, who is at this time, patient, willing non should perish, and thus allowing evil to flow rampant, Says enough is enough, this brings in the "last days" as the disciples call it in matt 24. and the things which Christ warned will come come.

The church is so lost (or gone because of rapture) that God uses two witnesses in jerusalem, then saves 144000, and also uses the many martyres as a witness to him in this age, that even during great tribulation. Many come to Christ. and are saved, ready and waiting for his return.

Paul doesn't explain what the falling away is in 2 Thessalonians. Paul is speaking to these Christians in about their concerns. There is nothing to indicate Paul was speaking of things that pertain to our future. If it was for us or later, these people wouldn't have clue what Paul is talking about. And since most of mainstream Christian view it for the future, they don't know what Paul is talking about. I would not base a whole doctrine on it...Paul could have meant Jerusalem falling away from Roman rule. The restrainer could have been Rome. The Lawlessness could have been a Jewish revolutionary leader. Paul could have been talking about near future current events. The passage is obscure at most.

 

[4enlightment]

Paul doesn't explain what the falling away is in 2 Thessalonians. Paul is speaking to these Christians in about their concerns. There is nothing to indicate Paul was speaking of things that pertain to our future. If it was for us or later, these people wouldn't have clue what Paul is talking about. And since most of mainstream Christian view it for the future, they don't know what Paul is talking about. I would not base a whole doctrine on it...Paul could have meant Jerusalem falling away from Roman rule. The restrainer could have been Rome. The Lawlessness could have been a Jewish revolutionary leader. Paul could have been talking about near future current events. The passage is obscure at most.

Luke 8:13 Those on the rocky ground are the ones who receive the word with joy when they hear it, but they have no root. They believe for a while, but in the time of testing they fall away. (Man lawlessness is being revealed during this time when satan sifted us.)

 

[Straightshot]

The preterist always manipulates ..... this means this .... this does not mean what it says mentslity

Scattered thinking ..... pick and choose this thing .... and that thing

You can know them by their style of debating ..... and they all have a clever teacher

 

[Bookends]

your right, but remember their must be a falling away, Even paul speaks of a time when the gentile will fall away and be cut off.

I believe (whether you believe in the rapture or not) this falling away is so severe, that the true church has lost its power, the pagan, new age, and licentious church has grown so powerful, that the true church has lost its power. because people do not want the real God. they want the God that suits their ideas and belief system.

This causes God, who is at this time, patient, willing non should perish, and thus allowing evil to flow rampant, Says enough is enough, this brings in the "last days" as the disciples call it in matt 24. and the things which Christ warned will come come.

The church is so lost (or gone because of rapture) that God uses two witnesses in jerusalem, then saves 144000, and also uses the many martyres as a witness to him in this age, that even during great tribulation. Many come to Christ. and are saved, ready and waiting for his return.

But, regarding what I outlined in bold above, the bible (Jesus Words in John 17) teaches if Christians do what they are supposed to, LOVE ONE ANOTHER, be one in Christ and Christ is one with the Father, be unified, THEN THE WORLD SHALL KNOW HIM! This goes against your doomsday scenario.

Jesus Prays for All Believers

20 “I do not pray for these alone, but also for those who will[e] believe in Me through their word; 21 that they all may be one, as You, Father, are in Me, and I in You; that they also may be one in Us, that the world may believe that You sent Me.

 

[Bookends]

Luke 8:13 Those on the rocky ground are the ones who receive the word with joy when they hear it, but they have no root. They believe for a while, but in the time of testing they fall away. (Man lawlessness is being revealed during this time when satan sifted us.)

LOL, ok man, whatever...Jesus is talking about the nature of men here, how some will receive Him. But satisfy yourself. I'm not too concerned about it.

 

[Bookends]

The preterist always manipulates ..... this means this .... this does not mean what it says mentslity

Scattered thinking ..... pick and choose this thing .... and that thing

You can know them by their style of debating ..... and they all have a clever teacher

and this is how the ignorant teach, by slandering others.

 

[Bookends]

True, and that is a condition Do you think if they do this he will restore them as promised? or is it to late even if they repent?

Then I go to what the OT prophets say,

They will repent.

Paul says they are blinded in part, UNTIL the time of the gentile is complete. then ALL will be saved. To be saved takes repentance does it not?

When they and if they Repent (as a nation) then they will have accepted Christ as their Lord and Savior. The time of the Gentiles is now, meaning NOW IS THE DAY OF OUR SALVATION!!! Paul just got done saying how the physical Jew gets saved, the same way the Gentile gets saved, by being grafted into the root, SO IN THIS MANNER, all Israel (true Israel, OT and NT Saints) will be saved. All believers are true ISRAEL. This is about individual salvation, not national...No where do you see anyone nation being saved (reconciled to the God).

 

[4enlightment]

LOL, ok man, whatever...Jesus is talking about the nature of men here, how some will receive Him. But satisfy yourself. I'm not too concerned about it.

Yes, it is about unveiling the true nature of mankind when they has entered into the belly (Time of testing).

 

[Bookends]

Yes, it is about unveiling the true nature of mankind when they has entered into the belly (Time of testing).

That time of testing as been around since Adam and Eve...It's past, present and future. God seems to like to test us, even though he knows our response. Perhaps it's for us, to build us up.

 

[Bookends]

The river of living water flowing out of it and making the Dead Sea sweet also poses a slight impediment to it being your Daddy's temple.

Which makes me think the temple Ezekiel sees is of a spiritual nature, for physical rivers get smaller as they branch out, river gets bigger and bigger, all fed from the same source.

 

[Straightshot]

"and this is how the ignorant teach, by slandering others"


Check yourself out Bookends ..... your preterism is well defined

..... now we know

A typical pretereist response above

 

[Straightshot]

"The river of living water flowing out of it and making the Dead Sea sweet also poses a slight impediment to it being your Daddy's temple."


I don't think Bookends gets your reply .... clever

Yes Satan does have a temple .... nothing sweet therin

 

[4enlightment]

That time of testing as been around since Adam and Eve...It's past, present and future. God seems to like to test us, even though he knows our response. Perhaps it's for us, to build us up.

Yes, to unveil the man of sin. Pharisees had thought that they were perfect, but the truth about them has been unveiled. God is trying to let us know that we all aren't perfect and so whom think that they are perfect, that is when satan comes in to sift you, to see if their anything that you are hiding and to see if you truly love God. And once he has unveiled what you had kept hidden, then he will present that to the Judge. So it is best to confess and have no part of judging others then there is no need for satan to come and sift you. One way or another, the truth is going to be unveiled.

Acts 23:30 When I was informed of a plot to be carried out against the man, I sent him to you at once. I also ordered his accusers to present to you their case against him.

Job 31:35 (“Oh, that I had someone to hear me! I sign now my defense—let the Almighty answer me; let my accuser put his indictment in writing.

Revelation 14:5 No lie was found in their mouths; they are blameless.

2 Corinthians 3:13 We are not like Moses, who would put a veil over his face to prevent the Israelites from seeing the end of what was passing away.

2 Corinthians 3:15 Even to this day when Moses is read, a veil covers their hearts.(We cover our heart when Jesus said even if we look upon a person with lust is guilty of sin, but we will cover it up by saying, "Who, me.., I'd never look at anyone with lust". )

 

[Billyd]

We have addressed the who, what and the where of the 144,000. Can we address why 144,000?

 

[Bookends]

We have addressed the who, what and the where of the 144,000. Can we address why 144,000?

They are sealed by the God for protection against His wrath. The answer lies in Rev. 7:1-4.

 

[Bookends]

"and this is how the ignorant teach, by slandering others"


Check yourself out Bookends ..... your preterism is well defined

..... now we know

A typical pretereist response above

Perhaps ignoring you isn't the only loving thing I can do. Maybe I should report you to the moderators for a reprimand or a possible banning so you can't further pile up the sins your accruing against me.