Why do people not understand.. Dead means dead.

[SeaBass]

oh lets see.

Every time you speak of how one gets saved

You merit salvation by doing the work of baptism for starters..

Should I say more?

Show one post where I have said one merits salvation.

I started an thread:

http://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/94634-free-gifts-come-conditions.html

....that had examples for m the ibble where God's grace required obedient works but doing those obedient works did not earn God's grace.

Naaman was healed by grace but God's grace required the work of dipping yet the work in dipping did not in any way earn Naaman God's grace. Faith onlyists refuse to understand this simple concept and their refusal does not make me wrong, it just leaves faith onlyists in the dark concerning bible truths.

Acts 2:38 the imperative "be baptized" is passive voice. One submits himself to baptism while God does the work of cutting away the body of Sin Col 2:12-14.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Show one post where I have said one merits salvation.

I started an thread:

http://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/94634-free-gifts-come-conditions.html

....that had examples for m the ibble where God's grace required obedient works but doing those obedient works did not earn God's grace.

Naaman was healed by grace but God's grace required the work of dipping yet the work in dipping did not in any way earn Naaman God's grace. Faith onlyists refuse to understand this simple concept and their refusal does not make me wrong, it just leaves faith onlyists in the dark concerning bible truths.

Acts 2:38 the imperative "be baptized" is passive voice. One submits himself to baptism while God does the work of cutting away the body of Sin Col 2:12-14.

Merit. A reward which is earned or merited by working for it.

You can post all the threads you want trying to justify your works. It does not make it true.

If your doing a work, and expecting a reward for that work (as you preach) they you are trying to merit the thing you are working for.

Paul said it best, If abraham was found by works he has something to boast of, but what does scripture say? "abraham believed God and it was accredited to him for righteousness, Now to him who WORKS, it is not reconed as grace, but as debt, but of his who does not work, but believes (has faith) in him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is acounted as rightiousness.

Your working for righteousness. Thus your work is not counted as grace but as debt, no matter how you try to spin it.

As paul says, it is GOD who justifies the ungodly. Do you have faith in him or not? As long as you do work to try to earn the righteousness of God, You tell God flat out I do not trust you to justify me, I feel I need to help myself, and work for it.

Your trying to justify yourself, by your works.

 

[Yahshua]

James speaks of a claimed faith. Not one time in James passage does he ever say it is real faith. About the only fact he says is that if you BELIEVE you do well. for demons believe, yet tremble.

James is talking of a mere belief, the same belief the pharisees had and the same belief the jews had had for centuries. A belief of God, but no faith in God at all.

There is no work, because the faith (which must be present to produce works) is a claimed faith, but not a real faith.

The faith Paul spoke of was a real, living, saving faith, Which will work. because it is alive, and will do what it trusts.

If you do not trust someone, you are not going to do what they ask. It takes a trust to go into the unknown and do what is asked, not knowing what the consequences will be.

If you know. it is not faith but knowledge.

The faith James spoke of was the same faith Paul spoke of...James even gives an example of what I highlighted in your quote (shared in the passage below).

[TABLE]
[TR]
[TD]Word/Concept
[/TD]
[TD]Greco/Roman Meaning (abstract)
[/TD]
[TD]Hebraic Meaning (tangible)[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Faith[/TD]
[TD]belief; confidence; acceptance of something as true[/TD]
[TD]Emunah - trust expressed in active loyalty. The Hebrew Characters literally describe "strong movement and activity (to) [or to behold] THE (object) of (one's trust)."[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

Even though James' letter was written in Greek, I took the liberty of replacing the word "faith" with its Hebrew equivalent simply to show the perspective James had while writing on the subject. Just look how perfectly it matches the Hebrew meaning I share above.



James 2:14

14 What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath [Emunah], and have not works? Can (such) faith save him?​

Right here James makes his point in the form of a question that a faith without works is not a faith that saves. Being a Hebrew, we can assume he understands faith to be "Emunah: a trust expressed in action". As far as he's concerned, the only faith that saves is one with action. He then goes into an example...



James 2:15-17 [also replacing "works" w/"action"]

15 If a brother or sister be naked, and destitute of daily food,

16 And one of you say unto them, "Depart in peace, be ye warmed and filled"; notwithstanding ye give them not those things which are needful to the body; what doth it profit?

17 Even so [Emunah], if it hath not [action], is dead, being alone.​

If someone's naked and hungry, and you tell them "Go! Be warm and filled!" but never actually give clothing or food, how does what you say benefit them? I'll even add that what you've said to them is a worthless; meaningless statement. James concludes that likewise faith alone without action doesn't exist...which is what dead means; to not exist.

Because Emunah means "trust expressed in action towards the object of trust", Emunah can't actually exist without that action towards the object. James then gives a challenge to a hypothetical person who would attempt to separate faith from action; making faith an "abstract statement"...note the tone:



James 2:14

18 Yea, a man may say, "Thou hast faith, and I have [actions]": shew me your [Emunah] *without* your [actions], and I will shew you my [Emunah] *by* my [actions].​

Here James would win such a challenge. Again, if we are to assume James is coming from a Hebraic background while discussing this concept, he sees faith and the actions that express that faith as indistinguishable from each other. James will show his faith by his actions, and he challenges one to show faith without action. Remember, James has already established that the faith he's describing - faith with action - is specifically the faith that saves. James then continues...



James 2:14

19 Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.

20 But wilt thou know, O vain man, that [emunah] without [action] is dead?​

Belief in God is great! But even the devils also believe in God. Yet James calls one a "vain person" who believes that no work on their part is required to wrought faith. James then uses Abraham (the father of faith) as a perfect example of the faith he's talking about...



James 2:21-24 [also replacing "perfect" w/"complete"]

21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar?

22 Seest thou how [emunah] wrought with his [actions], and by [actions] was [emunah] made [complete]?

23 And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God.

24 Ye see then how that by [actions] a man is justified, and not by faith only.​

Note here that James doesn't say works were wrought with Abraham's faith. Instead he says, faith was wrought with Abraham's works, and by those works was Abraham's faith completed...fulfilling scripture that said Abraham believed God and righteousness was imputed to him. The word "wrought" means "shaped by hammering; a beaten work".

Remember, James began his point by asking can such a faith without works save a person. And now he's saying that a faith - without works - can't justify. He never changes subjects because he says "see then.." which is a conclusion phrase. So he links salvation & justification together. This means there's no such thing as "saved" (past tense) per say, but rather one is "continually being saved" (present tense) through justification which can only come from faith (understood as "Emunah"): faith shaped with certain actions that express one's trust.


The following is James giving an example of your text I highlighted.



James 2:25

25 Likewise also was not Rahab the harlot justified by works, when she had received the messengers, and had sent them out another way?​

Here's James giving an example of "Emunah"; the same faith Paul speaks about. We know that Rahab the harlot was SAVED from God's judgment of Jericho through Joshua's army...but here James says she was JUSTIFIED by her actions of hiding Israel's spies. So again salvation & justification are linked together. Rahab was justified by her actions and thus was saved from judgment. Her faith was wrought/shaped with her actions that expressed her trust in the spies word.



James 2:26

26 For as the body without the spirit is dead, so [emunah] without [action] is dead also.​

Dead means to not exist. The faith James argues for - that saves - can not exist without action.

 

[SeaBass]

Dude.

Death is death. James is talking about a dead faith, NOT a dead spirit.

Just as a dead faith can do no work. A dead spirit can do no work to glorify God, All he can do is work to glorify self. Also called dead works.

You are trying to earn your salvation by dead works. your dead spirit is incapable of doing works to glorify God because it is DEAD. Just like a CLAIMED faith can do no work because it has no life, it is DEAD.

You must be MADE ALIVE in Christ, before you can obey in any thing to glorify God.

Spiritual death does not mean one who is spiritually dead is unable to do anything for Peter's hearers in Acts 2 proves that those spiritually dead can do something.

What has yet to be explained is what can a DEAD FAITH ONLY do?


According to all the false straw man arguments being raised here, Naaman must have earned his healing and grace had nothing to do with it.......according to man made faith only theology.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

The faith James spoke of was the same faith Paul spoke of...James even gives an example of what I highlighted in your quote (shared in the passage below).

[TABLE]
[TR]
[TD]Word/Concept
[/TD]
[TD]Greco/Roman Meaning (abstract)
[/TD]
[TD]Hebraic Meaning (tangible)[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Faith[/TD]
[TD]belief; confidence; acceptance of something as true[/TD]
[TD]Emunah - trust expressed in active loyalty. The Hebrew Characters literally describe "strong movement and activity (to) [or to behold] THE (object) of (one's trust)."[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

Even though James' letter was written in Greek, I took the liberty of replacing the word "faith" with its Hebrew equivalent simply to show the perspective James had while writing on the subject. Just look how perfectly it matches the Hebrew meaning I share above.



James 2:14

14 What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath [Emunah], and have not works? Can (such) faith save him?​

Right here James makes his point in the form of a question that a faith without works is not a faith that saves. Being a Hebrew, we can assume he understands faith to be "Emunah: a trust expressed in action". As far as he's concerned, the only faith that saves is one with action. He then goes into an example...



James 2:15-17 [also replacing "works" w/"action"]

15 If a brother or sister be naked, and destitute of daily food,

16 And one of you say unto them, "Depart in peace, be ye warmed and filled"; notwithstanding ye give them not those things which are needful to the body; what doth it profit?

17 Even so [Emunah], if it hath not [action], is dead, being alone.​

If someone's naked and hungry, and you tell them "Go! Be warm and filled!" but never actually give clothing or food, how does what you say benefit them? I'll even add that what you've said to them is a worthless; meaningless statement. James concludes that likewise faith alone without action doesn't exist...which is what dead means; to not exist.

Because Emunah means "trust expressed in action towards the object of trust", Emunah can't actually exist without that action towards the object. James then gives a challenge to a hypothetical person who would attempt to separate faith from action...note the tone:



James 2:14

18 Yea, a man may say, "Thou hast faith, and I have [actions]": shew me your [Emunah] *without* your [actions], and I will shew you my [Emunah] *by* my [actions].​

James would win such a challenge. Again, if we are to assume James is coming from a Hebraic background while discussing this concept, he sees faith and the actions that express that faith as indistinguishable from each other. James will show his faith by his actions, and he challenges one to show faith without action. Remember, James has already established that the faith he's describing - faith with action - is specifically the faith that saves. James then continues...



James 2:14

19 Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.

20 But wilt thou know, O vain man, that [emunah] without [action] is dead?​

Belief in God is great! But even the devils also believe in God. Yet James calls one a "vain person" who believes that no work on their part is required to wrought faith. James then uses Abraham (the father of faith) as a perfect example of the faith he's talking about...



James 2:21-24 [also replacing "perfect" w/"complete"]

21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar?

22 Seest thou how [emunah] wrought with his [actions], and by [actions] was [emunah] made [complete]?

23 And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God.

24 Ye see then how that by [actions] a man is justified, and not by faith only.​

Note here that James doesn't say works were wrought with Abraham's faith. Instead he says, faith was wrought with Abraham's works, and by those works was Abraham's faith completed...fulfilling scripture that said Abraham believed God and righteousness was imputed to him. The word "wrought" means "shaped by hammering; a beaten work".

Remember, James began his point by asking can such a faith without works save a person. And now he's saying that a faith - without works - can't justify. He never changes subjects because he says "see then.." which is a conclusion phrase. So he links salvation & justification together. This means there's no such thing as "saved" (past tense) per say, but rather one is "continually being saved" (present tense) through justification which can only come from faith (understood as "Emunah"): faith shaped with certain actions that express one's trust.


The following is James giving an example of your text I highlighted.



James 2:25

25 Likewise also was not Rahab the harlot justified by works, when she had received the messengers, and had sent them out another way?​

Here's James giving an example of "Emunah"; the same faith Paul speaks about. We know that Rahab the harlot was SAVED from God's judgment of Jericho through Joshua's army...but here James says she was JUSTIFIED by her actions of hiding Israel's spies. So again salvation & justification are linked together. Rahab was justified by her actions and thus was saved from judgment. Her faith was wrought/shaped with her actions that expressed her trust in the spies word.



James 2:26

26 For as the body without the spirit is dead, so [emunah] without [action] is dead also.​

Dead means to not exist. The faith James argues for - that saves - can not exist without action.

The greek word faith means to have an assurance, or trust in the thing or person you have faith in.

Thats is all we need, not try to figure out what pagans, or jews would think faith does not matter, just read the word.

If you do not trust someone, even if you believe them, your not going to do what they say, Thus your faith is dead.

Try not to read to much into it, for it will confuse people. just tell it for what it is

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Spiritual death does not mean one who is spiritually dead is unable to do anything for Peter's hearers in Acts 2 proves that those spiritually dead can do something.

What has yet to be explained is what can a DEAD FAITH ONLY do?


According to all the false straw man arguments being raised here, Naaman must have earned his healing and grace had nothing to do with it.......according to man made faith only theology.

1. Those who REPENTED were baptised.
2. Those who did not WERE NOT BAPTISED

You can not repent, UNTIL you have faith in what the speaker is saying, until then you will continue to believe what you always have believed in.

The people who repented in acts 2 were already spiritually alive BEFORE they even had the chance to go get baptised. they were saved, and given eternal life while they were in line waiting their turn.

Their faith saved them, because it was not dead PROVED by the fact of what they did after they had faith.

 

[crossnote]

James is not speaking of the faith that connects us to Christ, nothing we do can do that. Once connected, yes, then justified works as found in James 2:21-24 issue forth.

 

[newbirth]

James speaks of a claimed faith. Not one time in James passage does he ever say it is real faith. About the only fact he says is that if you BELIEVE you do well. for demons believe, yet tremble.

James is talking of a mere belief, the same belief the pharisees had and the same belief the jews had had for centuries. A belief of God, but no faith in God at all.

There is no work, because the faith (which must be present to produce works) is a claimed faith, but not a real faith.

The faith Paul spoke of was a real, living, saving faith, Which will work. because it is alive, and will do what it trusts.

If you do not trust someone, you are not going to do what they ask. It takes a trust to go into the unknown and do what is asked, not knowing what the consequences will be.

If you know. it is not faith but knowledge.

back to the hall of babble.....you are forcing words into the scripture(real faith).....faith comes by hearing....are you saying they did not hear the real word??? now you are dictating who has faith and who does not....where does the scripture say mare belief? you are conjuring up words into the scripture to satisfy your doctrine...there is no work so the faith is dead...James does not say the faith has to produce work....he says if the man has faith and he has no works...the man has to do the works...look at the example...only talk and no action...probably waiting for faith to produce a loaf of bread and a change of clothes...
[SUP]
15 [/SUP]and if a brother or sister may be naked, and may be destitute of the daily food,

[SUP]16 [/SUP]and any one of you may say to them, `Depart ye in peace, be warmed, and be filled,' and may not give to them the things needful for the body, what [is] the profit?





James 2:14Young's Literal Translation (YLT)
[SUP]14 [/SUP]What [is] the profit, my brethren, if faith, any one may speak of having, and works he may not have? is that faith able to save him?

 

[p_rehbein]

Not for nothing, but I'm going with this statement from the Apostle Paul...........

Romans, Chapter 10:

[TABLE]
[TR]
[TD][h=4]8[/h][/TD]
[TD] But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach;
Deut 30:14
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD][h=4]9[/h][/TD]
[TD]That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD][h=4]10[/h][/TD]
[TD]For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD][h=4]11[/h][/TD]
[TD]For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.
Isa 28:16
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD][h=4]12[/h][/TD]
[TD]For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him.
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD][h=4]13[/h][/TD]
[TD]For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.
Joel 2:32
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD][h=4]14[/h][/TD]
[TD]How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher?
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD][h=4]15[/h][/TD]
[TD]And how shall they preach, except they be sent? as it is written, How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things!
Isa 52:7
[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

 

[crossnote]

Gal 3:5 He who gives you His Spirit and works miracles among you--does He do so on the ground of your obedience to the Law, or is it the result of your having heard and believed:
Gal 3:6 even as Abraham believed God, and his faith was placed to his account as righteousness?

 

[Hizikyah]

Not for nothing, but I'm going with this statement from the Apostle Paul...........

Romans, Chapter 10:

[TABLE]
[TR]
[TD]8
[/TD]
[TD] But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach;
Deut 30:14 [/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]9
[/TD]
[TD]That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]10
[/TD]
[TD]For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]11
[/TD]
[TD]For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.
Isa 28:16 [/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]12
[/TD]
[TD]For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him.[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]13
[/TD]
[TD]For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.
Joel 2:32 [/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]14
[/TD]
[TD]How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher?[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]15
[/TD]
[TD]And how shall they preach, except they be sent? as it is written, How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things!
Isa 52:7 [/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

Paul knew his Scriptures.

 

[newbirth]

James is not speaking of the faith that connects us to Christ, nothing we do can do that. Once connected, yes, then justified works as found in James 2:21-24 issue forth.

one faith same principle....you want to believe yourself into Christ by your super spiritual mind powers...scripture does not teach that...one has to obey the gospel....has something changed since Peter preached on the day of Pentecost?....is there another set of instructions...??? is the promise worn out? does it not apply to us anymore??? is God calling us to this same instruction or did he make a change somewhere??? Are we instructed to do something else when we receive the word now?
[SUP]
37 [/SUP]Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do?

[SUP]38 [/SUP]Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
[SUP]39 [/SUP]For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.
[SUP]40 [/SUP]And with many other words did he testify and exhort, saying, Save yourselves from this untoward generation.
[SUP]41 [/SUP]Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls.

 

[crossnote]

one faith same principle....you want to believe yourself into Christ by your super spiritual mind powers...scripture does not teach that...one has to obey the gospel....has something changed since Peter preached on the day of Pentecost?....is there another set of instructions...??? is the promise worn out? does it not apply to us anymore??? is God calling us to this same instruction or did he make a change somewhere??? Are we instructed to do something else when we receive the word now?
[SUP]
37 [/SUP]Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do?

[SUP]38 [/SUP]Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
[SUP]39 [/SUP]For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.
[SUP]40 [/SUP]And with many other words did he testify and exhort, saying, Save yourselves from this untoward generation.
[SUP]41 [/SUP]Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls.

Gal 3:10 All who are depending upon their own obedience to the Law are under a curse, for it is written, "Cursed is every one who does not remain faithful to all the precepts of the Law, and practise them."
Gal 3:11 It is evident, too, that no one can find acceptance with God simply by obeying the Law, because "the righteous shall live by faith,"
Gal 3:12 and the Law has nothing to do with faith. It teaches that "he who does these things shall live by doing them."

 

[SeaBass]

Merit. A reward which is earned or merited by working for it.

You can post all the threads you want trying to justify your works. It does not make it true.

If your doing a work, and expecting a reward for that work (as you preach) they you are trying to merit the thing you are working for.

Paul said it best, If abraham was found by works he has something to boast of, but what does scripture say? "abraham believed God and it was accredited to him for righteousness, Now to him who WORKS, it is not reconed as grace, but as debt, but of his who does not work, but believes (has faith) in him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is acounted as rightiousness.

Your working for righteousness. Thus your work is not counted as grace but as debt, no matter how you try to spin it.

As paul says, it is GOD who justifies the ungodly. Do you have faith in him or not? As long as you do work to try to earn the righteousness of God, You tell God flat out I do not trust you to justify me, I feel I need to help myself, and work for it.

Your trying to justify yourself, by your works.

We have your post here as proof that you purposefully, willfully refuse to understand that God's grace can come with the condition of dipping for Naaman yet Naaman's dipping did not, could not in anyway earn him God's grace.



Rom 4:5 God "justifieth the ungodly" Abraham and David were ungodly men for both sinned, neither were perfectly sinless yet they were both justified for they both had an OBEDIENT FAITH. No verse say God justifies the ungody UNconditionally.


In Rom 6:16 Paul says a person obeys either on of two masters, either

1) sin unto death

or

2) obedience unto righteousness


Your man-made faith only theology has ruled out that you're serving (2) obedience unto righteousness and has you serving (1) sin unto death.

 

[SeaBass]

1. Those who REPENTED were baptised.
2. Those who did not WERE NOT BAPTISED

You can not repent, UNTIL you have faith in what the speaker is saying, until then you will continue to believe what you always have believed in.

The people who repented in acts 2 were already spiritually alive BEFORE they even had the chance to go get baptised. they were saved, and given eternal life while they were in line waiting their turn.

Their faith saved them, because it was not dead PROVED by the fact of what they did after they had faith.

A spiritually dead person cannot, would not hear God's word nor understand it or believe it. Yet those in Acts 2 did both hear and understand and then believed shown by asking what they must do while still LOST/spiritually dead. It would be impossible for them to be saved before they repented and were baptized for remission of sins. They asked what they must DO and could not be saved until they obeyed by DOING what Peter commanded them.

So you still remain wrong on this issue and have not yet explained what a dead faith only can do.

 

[newbirth]

1. Those who REPENTED were baptised.
2. Those who did not WERE NOT BAPTISED

You can not repent, UNTIL you have faith in what the speaker is saying, until then you will continue to believe what you always have believed in.

The people who repented in acts 2 were already spiritually alive BEFORE they even had the chance to go get baptised. they were saved, and given eternal life while they were in line waiting their turn.

Their faith saved them, because it was not dead PROVED by the fact of what they did after they had faith.

are you implying there was no need to be baptised...???? then scripture is in error...I see the adding after baptism...not before....
you are dictating how one is saved but not according to scripture.....
[SUP]
37 [/SUP]Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do?

[SUP]38 [/SUP]Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
[SUP]39 [/SUP]For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.
[SUP]40 [/SUP]And with many other words did he testify and exhort, saying, Save yourselves from this untoward generation.
[SUP]41 [/SUP]Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

back to the hall of babble.....you are forcing words into the scripture(real faith).....faith comes by hearing....are you saying they did not hear the real word??? now you are dictating who has faith and who does not....where does the scripture say mare belief? you are conjuring up words into the scripture to satisfy your doctrine...there is no work so the faith is dead...James does not say the faith has to produce work....he says if the man has faith and he has no works...the man has to do the works...look at the example...only talk and no action...probably waiting for faith to produce a loaf of bread and a change of clothes...

No. This is babble. I feel like i am talking to a three year old kid who demands that 2 plus 2 is 5 no matter how many times yuo prove to them it is 4. They will still argue.

James says if you CLAIM (you keep ignoring the word claim) to have faith, can that faith (claimed faith) save him.

Everyone there heard the word. But not everyone had FAITH in what they heard (yet again you continue to twist the meaning of a word.)

How do we know?

they were hearers and not doers (they did not trust what they heard) Since they had no trust, they had no faith, since faith is a TRUST AND ASSURANCE that what you HEAR IS TRUE.

[SUP]
15 [/SUP]and if a brother or sister may be naked, and may be destitute of the daily food,

[SUP]16 [/SUP]and any one of you may say to them, `Depart ye in peace, be warmed, and be filled,' and may not give to them the things needful for the body, what [is] the profit?

If God tells me to feed the poor, and not worry about myself, he will take care of all my needs.

And I heard these words, and TRUST or HAVE FAITH, that what God say is true.

I will feed the poor.

If I hear the words. But do not trust God, and do not think he will take care of my needs, I will be selfish, and not share of the things which Go gave me, I will politely (like a good little fake christian would do) say may God bless you in your day, and walk away. Because I need to take care of myself. and do not have anything to share.

James 2:14Young's Literal Translation (YLT)
[SUP]14 [/SUP]What [is] the profit, my brethren, if faith, any one may speak of having, and works he may not have? is that faith able to save him?

That interpretation will not help you if you do not heed the words bolded.

James did not say they had faith, he said "they speak of having" faith.

Anyone can say they have faith, it does not make it so. I can say I have a million dollars. But it is not going to make it true if all I have is 20 dollars to my name.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

We have your post here as proof that you purposefully, willfully refuse to understand that God's grace can come with the condition of dipping for Naaman yet Naaman's dipping did not, could not in anyway earn him God's grace.



Rom 4:5 God "justifieth the ungodly" Abraham and David were ungodly men for both sinned, neither were perfectly sinless yet they were both justified for they both had an OBEDIENT FAITH. No verse say God justifies the ungody UNconditionally.


In Rom 6:16 Paul says a person obeys either on of two masters, either

1) sin unto death

or

2) obedience unto righteousness


Your man-made faith only theology has ruled out that you're serving (2) obedience unto righteousness and has you serving (1) sin unto death.

Dude, go away. You have nothing to add to this discussion.

better yet, Keep speaking, You prove the topic of the OP is right on the money.

 

[p_rehbein]

Ah, the age old Acts 2:38 argument.............sigh.........

Pretty simple thought...........

They "repented" and because they "repented," their sins were forgiven, because their sins were forgiven they were baptized......much like this:

"Repent" and "jump for joy" for the forgiveness of sins..........

Two possibilities here............

1) One "jumps for joy" because when they repented their sins were forgiven

OR

2) One "jumps for joy" to have their sins forgiven............

Yeah.................I'm going with No. 1 here..........

 

[eternally-gratefull]

A spiritually dead person cannot, would not hear God's word nor understand it or believe it. Yet those in Acts 2 did both hear and understand and then believed shown by asking what they must do while still LOST/spiritually dead. It would be impossible for them to be saved before they repented and were baptized for remission of sins. They asked what they must DO and could not be saved until they obeyed by DOING what Peter commanded them.

So you still remain wrong on this issue and have not yet explained what a dead faith only can do.

Why do I need to explain what a dead faith can do? A little child could tell you what a dead faith can do. What you can not comprehend what a CLAIMED faith, which is no faith at all is?

Come on, I am sure you graduated high school, you should know that anything that is dead IS INCAPABLE OF DOING ANYTHING.