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C
The post you replied to with this wasn't talking about "good works" but Obeying His Commandments from John 14.
http://christianchat.com/bible-disc...understand-dead-means-dead-8.html#post1787273
Faith based blah blah good-works [sorry, I'm tired but feel like talkin' with ya].
"Good works" are mentioned in the N.T. but are Not THE COMMANDMENTS that Jesus was talking about in John 14.
Good works are those things that were expected of us and God ordained that we should walk in -- Like feeding the hungry, visiting the sick and those in prison but they are not what John was quoting of what Jesus was talking about nor neither was I, in that post that's linked above. His Commandments are the baseline, the beginnings of following Him after we first "believe on Him" and what are the prerequisite of being filled with His Abiding Spirit ... then comes the good works - after we've got a grip on Obeying His Commandments.
Just got home and stopped at this post of yours but have to keep reading the rest of these pages that I've yet to read.
http://christianchat.com/bible-disc...understand-dead-means-dead-8.html#post1787273
Faith based blah blah good-works [sorry, I'm tired but feel like talkin' with ya].
"Good works" are mentioned in the N.T. but are Not THE COMMANDMENTS that Jesus was talking about in John 14.
Good works are those things that were expected of us and God ordained that we should walk in -- Like feeding the hungry, visiting the sick and those in prison but they are not what John was quoting of what Jesus was talking about nor neither was I, in that post that's linked above. His Commandments are the baseline, the beginnings of following Him after we first "believe on Him" and what are the prerequisite of being filled with His Abiding Spirit ... then comes the good works - after we've got a grip on Obeying His Commandments.
Just got home and stopped at this post of yours but have to keep reading the rest of these pages that I've yet to read.
E
Obeying Gods commands are good works.
Try to read with an open mind, and not your closed heart and you would understand.
I obey Gods commands because I love him, and TRUST HIM, and am GRATEFUL for what he did for me.
Not to save me
that is what separates a person with faith in God. and a legalist.
A legalist may claim he does good for those reasons, but the soul power behind it is to save self, or not lose salvation, thus it is all self motivated works, also known as carnal deeds, and not for God.
Try to read with an open mind, and not your closed heart and you would understand.
I obey Gods commands because I love him, and TRUST HIM, and am GRATEFUL for what he did for me.
Not to save me
that is what separates a person with faith in God. and a legalist.
A legalist may claim he does good for those reasons, but the soul power behind it is to save self, or not lose salvation, thus it is all self motivated works, also known as carnal deeds, and not for God.
C
The next six replies with all the jokers won't be joking when they see Him as He is NOW.
I'll say it again - the fear and reverence for The Word of God made flesh and written is GONE from the majority of those that call themselves "the church".
Keep laughing. Keep mocking His way of salvation folks. Keep twisting and perverting things after someone posts whole sections of the book of John quoting JESUS.
I'll say it again - the fear and reverence for The Word of God made flesh and written is GONE from the majority of those that call themselves "the church".
Keep laughing. Keep mocking His way of salvation folks. Keep twisting and perverting things after someone posts whole sections of the book of John quoting JESUS.
C
Almost all of the post from Kenneth that this reply is to is Scripture unto Salvation ... he emphasized "doeth" enough times and if you don't think that DOING is part of salvation .... no joke - danger signs should be going off.
Where are the reams of Scripture coming from your side-kick and from you? All we get is this type posts from both of you.
Where's these "faith alone" Scriptures? Other than "not by the 613 laws of Moses ["the law"] but by faith in The Son of God" ...... BUT THEN COMES OBEDIENCE BEFORE THE INFILLING - "as it is written" quoting HIM.
http://christianchat.com/bible-disc...understand-dead-means-dead-8.html#post1787273
This is the "Bible" discussion forum, but neither of you post the abundance of Scripture that has been posted 'to' you both. It's just a "like" each other thing going on with you guys and neither of you are really reading the Scriptures that we or I give and yet you've both asked for Scriptural proof from us.
Sorry but this 'debate' is "out of order". I see who's posting BIBLE and who's not and who's just making jokes out of salvation that cost the Son of God more than you seem to show.
This isn't a tag-team-like-club - we're talking an eternal life or an eternal death issue here and messing with The Word of God is a dangerous game.
Where are the reams of Scripture coming from your side-kick and from you? All we get is this type posts from both of you.
Where's these "faith alone" Scriptures? Other than "not by the 613 laws of Moses ["the law"] but by faith in The Son of God" ...... BUT THEN COMES OBEDIENCE BEFORE THE INFILLING - "as it is written" quoting HIM.
http://christianchat.com/bible-disc...understand-dead-means-dead-8.html#post1787273
This is the "Bible" discussion forum, but neither of you post the abundance of Scripture that has been posted 'to' you both. It's just a "like" each other thing going on with you guys and neither of you are really reading the Scriptures that we or I give and yet you've both asked for Scriptural proof from us.
Sorry but this 'debate' is "out of order". I see who's posting BIBLE and who's not and who's just making jokes out of salvation that cost the Son of God more than you seem to show.
This isn't a tag-team-like-club - we're talking an eternal life or an eternal death issue here and messing with The Word of God is a dangerous game.
C
i'm so, so sorry you feel we're mocking. 
perhaps it would be helpful if you were to tell us what exactly
you feel are (for lack of a better phrase) God's terms of salvation?
perhaps it would be helpful if you were to tell us what exactly
you feel are (for lack of a better phrase) God's terms of salvation?
God's terms of salvation? Are you asking me to re-post everything I've ever posted since getting on this topic weeks ago?
Won't do it mom, not even for you ... but my last post was at the end of page 8.
C
Open mind / closed heart, eh? To what - your broken record ramblings or should I be like you and not respond to posts that are The Word of God - as you couldn't come back with a true reply to my last post on page 8 that was quoting Jesus' words by John.
I've heard your beliefs more times than I can now number - but you cannot read what John quoted from Jesus in those many verses that were in my post and since I've been on this topic with you and DC --- as I told him as well -- we don't get tons of Scripture from you two -- but we sure as life have quoted an innumerable amount for you.
I do not have an open mind or heart to anything other than His Words .... not yours nor anyone else that hardly ever quotes from His Words. Sola Scriptura, if you don't mind. I don't agree with you based upon that reason only. You talk a lot but cannot back up your beliefs with Scripture and when Scripture is posted to you --- you're under the false belief that the few Scriptures that you find and post, Negate the Scripture we post back to you.
In Apologetics - there's a "both/and" principal in Scripture and I'll only give one example here ---- Jesus was both God and man. But all doctrine, including the doctrine of salvation, the same both/and principle applies - but you're not seeing it From The Word of God ... you're only parroting the same words over and over again yet accusing us of having a closed heart and mind.
I guess I'm just use to debates that get to the meat of the Word more academically - using lots of cross-referencing, heurmanuetics, the language, it's grammar and again - mainly Scripture and after all the debates that I've been involved in on the Salvation doctrine this is a first, as far as this your style of debate.
If you don't obey His commandments for salvation - then you are missing very large amounts of Scripture, but not just you.
I've heard your beliefs more times than I can now number - but you cannot read what John quoted from Jesus in those many verses that were in my post and since I've been on this topic with you and DC --- as I told him as well -- we don't get tons of Scripture from you two -- but we sure as life have quoted an innumerable amount for you.
I do not have an open mind or heart to anything other than His Words .... not yours nor anyone else that hardly ever quotes from His Words. Sola Scriptura, if you don't mind. I don't agree with you based upon that reason only. You talk a lot but cannot back up your beliefs with Scripture and when Scripture is posted to you --- you're under the false belief that the few Scriptures that you find and post, Negate the Scripture we post back to you.
In Apologetics - there's a "both/and" principal in Scripture and I'll only give one example here ---- Jesus was both God and man. But all doctrine, including the doctrine of salvation, the same both/and principle applies - but you're not seeing it From The Word of God ... you're only parroting the same words over and over again yet accusing us of having a closed heart and mind.
I guess I'm just use to debates that get to the meat of the Word more academically - using lots of cross-referencing, heurmanuetics, the language, it's grammar and again - mainly Scripture and after all the debates that I've been involved in on the Salvation doctrine this is a first, as far as this your style of debate.
If you don't obey His commandments for salvation - then you are missing very large amounts of Scripture, but not just you.
C
I'm just getting through pg 10.
I cannot believe that you, EG, have newbirth on ignore. Why, because he uses too much Scripture? I don't even know if he and I agree on every jot and tittle, but to put ANYBODY on Ignore is insane in "The Church".
I suppose that Yashua is next ... and then Kenneth ... and I already suggested that you put me on ignore the other day for the sake of your blood pressure ... let's see, who's left that doesn't agree with your interpretation or your lack of Scriptural evidence in your replies?
It's not just here - this belief that's somewhat popular here has been around for the last 25-30 yrs or so - and it didn't come from the PCA people that I know very well, nor the Baptists that I know of -- but we've watched it creep in ever so slyly and it's the 'comfortable' way belief-system of this last generation - Biblically speaking.
Well, putting anyone on ignore is not the love of God -- but what's that to some of you faith-alone folks?
Mar 12:28 And one of the scribes came, and having heard them reasoning together, and perceiving that he had answered them well, asked him, Which is the first commandment of all?
Mar 12:29 And Jesus answered him, The first of all the commandments is, Hear, O Israel; The Lord our God is one Lord:
Mar 12:30 And thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind, and with all thy strength: this is the first commandment.
Mar 12:31 And the second is like, namely this, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. There is none other commandment greater than these.
Mar 12:32 And the scribe said unto him, Well, Master, thou hast said the truth: for there is one God; and there is none other but he:
Mar 12:33 And to love him with all the heart, and with all the understanding, and with all the soul, and with all the strength, and to love his neighbour as himself, is more than all whole burnt offerings and sacrifices.
Mar 12:34 And when Jesus saw that he answered discreetly, he said unto him, Thou art not far from the kingdom of God. And no man after that durst ask him any question.
The Whole of the New Testament is His Commandments/Keeping His Words.
I cannot believe that you, EG, have newbirth on ignore. Why, because he uses too much Scripture? I don't even know if he and I agree on every jot and tittle, but to put ANYBODY on Ignore is insane in "The Church".
I suppose that Yashua is next ... and then Kenneth ... and I already suggested that you put me on ignore the other day for the sake of your blood pressure ... let's see, who's left that doesn't agree with your interpretation or your lack of Scriptural evidence in your replies?
It's not just here - this belief that's somewhat popular here has been around for the last 25-30 yrs or so - and it didn't come from the PCA people that I know very well, nor the Baptists that I know of -- but we've watched it creep in ever so slyly and it's the 'comfortable' way belief-system of this last generation - Biblically speaking.
Well, putting anyone on ignore is not the love of God -- but what's that to some of you faith-alone folks?
Mar 12:28 And one of the scribes came, and having heard them reasoning together, and perceiving that he had answered them well, asked him, Which is the first commandment of all?
Mar 12:29 And Jesus answered him, The first of all the commandments is, Hear, O Israel; The Lord our God is one Lord:
Mar 12:30 And thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind, and with all thy strength: this is the first commandment.
Mar 12:31 And the second is like, namely this, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. There is none other commandment greater than these.
Mar 12:32 And the scribe said unto him, Well, Master, thou hast said the truth: for there is one God; and there is none other but he:
Mar 12:33 And to love him with all the heart, and with all the understanding, and with all the soul, and with all the strength, and to love his neighbour as himself, is more than all whole burnt offerings and sacrifices.
Mar 12:34 And when Jesus saw that he answered discreetly, he said unto him, Thou art not far from the kingdom of God. And no man after that durst ask him any question.
The Whole of the New Testament is His Commandments/Keeping His Words.
Jeremiah wasn't written in English.
The Hebrew word translated as "burden" is "massah" used to mean "a donkey's burden"...in other words it means a load so heavy one would need a donkey to carry it (whether you physically lifted it or actually used a donkey). But not even animals were meant to work on the Sabbath. This is God's Law of the Sabbath.
The NT equivalent of this word is the greek word "fortivon", which mean "heavy burden". An equivalent of this is found in Matthew 23:4
Now when you think of a "bed" you may think of a modern western cot of some sort (which aren't heavy enough burdens that require a donkey)...but regardless, this was the middle east. The only "beds" that were portable were actually mats (like a roll up bamboo mat or a woven palm frond mat); one that didn't have any padding that you can place under your arm wherever you go.
In other words, these *definitely* weren't "heavy burdens" or even "burdens" at all...but the Pharisees decided that to carry *anything* - that wasn't in the realm of one's home - was considered "work". It was called "the law of the eruv", where you must take objects you own, walk no more than than a Sabbath's day journey in any direction, place your objects down, and then the boundary between your objects was now considered your home (where you can carry anything you want).
This lame man wasn't able to obey the Pharisees' law of the eruv because he was bed/mat ridden, laying with numerous other infirm people at the pool of Bethesda to be dipped in & healed when the water was stirred (John 5:2). Christ said to him "rise! take up your bed and walk." Defying the Pharisees' law of the eruv in honor of his Father's Sabbath.
Be careful not to fall into the trap of the Pharisees.
But those passages I gave was "Christ" speaking about how he said to obtain eternal life. He said it...that's what baffles me about your reply. Our Messiah said it. But you instead mention what Paul or the Pharisees said. What did the Son of the Living God say?
How can one twist direct word for word quotes??
Luke 18:20
Matthew 19:16-17
The Hebrew word translated as "burden" is "massah" used to mean "a donkey's burden"...in other words it means a load so heavy one would need a donkey to carry it (whether you physically lifted it or actually used a donkey). But not even animals were meant to work on the Sabbath. This is God's Law of the Sabbath.
The NT equivalent of this word is the greek word "fortivon", which mean "heavy burden". An equivalent of this is found in Matthew 23:4
4 For [Pharisees] bind heavy burdens and grievous to be borne, and lay them on men's shoulders; but they themselves will not move them with one of their fingers.
Now when you think of a "bed" you may think of a modern western cot of some sort (which aren't heavy enough burdens that require a donkey)...but regardless, this was the middle east. The only "beds" that were portable were actually mats (like a roll up bamboo mat or a woven palm frond mat); one that didn't have any padding that you can place under your arm wherever you go.
In other words, these *definitely* weren't "heavy burdens" or even "burdens" at all...but the Pharisees decided that to carry *anything* - that wasn't in the realm of one's home - was considered "work". It was called "the law of the eruv", where you must take objects you own, walk no more than than a Sabbath's day journey in any direction, place your objects down, and then the boundary between your objects was now considered your home (where you can carry anything you want).
This lame man wasn't able to obey the Pharisees' law of the eruv because he was bed/mat ridden, laying with numerous other infirm people at the pool of Bethesda to be dipped in & healed when the water was stirred (John 5:2). Christ said to him "rise! take up your bed and walk." Defying the Pharisees' law of the eruv in honor of his Father's Sabbath.
Be careful not to fall into the trap of the Pharisees.
But those passages I gave was "Christ" speaking about how he said to obtain eternal life. He said it...that's what baffles me about your reply. Our Messiah said it. But you instead mention what Paul or the Pharisees said. What did the Son of the Living God say?
How can one twist direct word for word quotes??
Luke 18:20
A ruler questioned Him, saying, "Good Teacher, what shall I do to inherit eternal life?" 19 And Jesus said to him, "Why do you call Me good? No one is good except God alone. 20 "You know the commandments,..."
Matthew 19:16-17
And someone came to Him and said, "Teacher, what good thing shall I do that I may obtain eternal life?" 17 And He said to him, "Why are you asking Me about what is good? There is only One who is good; but if you wish to enter into life, keep the commandments.
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but you said a work is a work is a work.....
it is the same thing...because ...he did ..he is doing ...and he will do....he will save you....so in essence you are doing it to ensure salvation....
that is how you make someone a legalist
you know the reason why everyone does everything....did you respond to God's call to be saved? Didn't God call you to save you...you mean to say you don't want to be saved?....that is why Peter said... [SUP]40 [/SUP]And with many other words did he testify and exhort, saying, Save yourselves from this untoward generation.
If you don't put yourself in the position to be saved you cannot be saved....
Originally Posted by eternally-gratefull
I agree with everything said, except would translate the law differently, it is more than the ten commands, it is any command God ever gave in scripture. Including the laws of the mosaic covenant, and the laws of the new covenant.
Adding some or all to the gift of grace, is doing what Paul spoke against, Preaching a different gospel.
you confuse even yourself...you condemn a man because he obeys Christ/do good works... telling him he is a legalist...that he must not obey Christ because he does not love Christ .....because you say so.....
1 John 3:10
In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother.1 John 2:29
If ye know that he is righteous, ye know that every one that doeth righteousness is born of him.
John 14:14-16King James Version (KJV)
[SUP]14 [/SUP]If ye shall ask any thing in my name, I will do it.
[SUP]15 [/SUP]If ye love me, keep my commandments.
[SUP]16 [/SUP]And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;
John 14:21
He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him.
John 14:23
Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.
Acts 5:32
And we are his witnesses of these things; and so is also the Holy Ghost, whom God hath given to them that obey him.
Hebrews 5:9
And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;
those who obey him loves him....
those who obey him gets HS.....
those who obey him gets salvation.....
it is the same thing...because ...he did ..he is doing ...and he will do....he will save you....so in essence you are doing it to ensure salvation....
that is how you make someone a legalist
you know the reason why everyone does everything....did you respond to God's call to be saved? Didn't God call you to save you...you mean to say you don't want to be saved?....that is why Peter said... [SUP]40 [/SUP]And with many other words did he testify and exhort, saying, Save yourselves from this untoward generation.
If you don't put yourself in the position to be saved you cannot be saved....
I agree with everything said, except would translate the law differently, it is more than the ten commands, it is any command God ever gave in scripture. Including the laws of the mosaic covenant, and the laws of the new covenant.
Adding some or all to the gift of grace, is doing what Paul spoke against, Preaching a different gospel.
1 John 3:10
In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother.1 John 2:29
If ye know that he is righteous, ye know that every one that doeth righteousness is born of him.
John 14:14-16King James Version (KJV)
[SUP]14 [/SUP]If ye shall ask any thing in my name, I will do it.
[SUP]15 [/SUP]If ye love me, keep my commandments.
[SUP]16 [/SUP]And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;
John 14:21
He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him.
John 14:23
Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.
Acts 5:32
And we are his witnesses of these things; and so is also the Holy Ghost, whom God hath given to them that obey him.
Hebrews 5:9
And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;
those who obey him loves him....
those who obey him gets HS.....
those who obey him gets salvation.....
Romans 14:4 Who art thou that judgest another man's servant? to his own master he standeth or falleth. Yea, he shall be holden up: for God is able to make him stand.
I was born a Gentile and thus OT Jewish practices simply do not pertain to me...
"You shall celebrate this throughout all generations" cannot apply when you dont come from that generation of people. I'm not Jewish. There is not one NT scripture urging the Gentile believers to get circumcized, or celebrate Jewish feasts, or whatever of these customs. They told them to abstain of blood but for non-legalistic reasons. They even had freedom to eat pagan sacrifice (1 Cor 8). Now Paul suggested not to make it an offense, but still declared that it would not taint them if they ate, because of their faith in Christ. That case alone tells volumes.
"Fulfillment of the law" means not only that Jesus lived perfectly. It also means that promises have been fulfilled, and there is no need to do the ritual anymore, like circumcision or sabbath, which were promises for better things which are described in the New testament, circumcision of the heart and sabbath in resting from one's own works (Heb 4). They could not rest from their own works or get that change of heart before Christ came. If all people who didnt follow OT Jewish way of sabbath did not get saved, that makes Christ really a poor savior...
I'll follow whatever conviction GOD puts into my heart, not what men attempt to guilt me into doing, if God Himself didnt write it into my heart and I start doing it, it is sin for me as it is not of faith. Seems some have problem understanding that and try to force their own convictions upon others. Our convictions cannot be equal because we have different amounts of faith (Rom 14), except of course they are equal for things like lying and murder. And also these equate not following Jewish traditions as disobedience to God and also think they are better pleasing to God or more spiritual than others for keeping these traditions. Some women feel convicted to wear scarves on their heads, too, and they call upon the Bible. But what really matters is if the conscience is defiled or not? For the woman with scarf conviction, it gets defiled if she doesnt wear it. The woman who believes Christ is the covering has clean conscience. But often the first will condemn the other.
1 Corinthians 8:7 Howbeit there is not in every man that knowledge: for some with conscience of the idol unto this hour eat it as a thing offered unto an idol; and their conscience being weak is defiled.
I was born a Gentile and thus OT Jewish practices simply do not pertain to me...
"You shall celebrate this throughout all generations" cannot apply when you dont come from that generation of people. I'm not Jewish. There is not one NT scripture urging the Gentile believers to get circumcized, or celebrate Jewish feasts, or whatever of these customs. They told them to abstain of blood but for non-legalistic reasons. They even had freedom to eat pagan sacrifice (1 Cor 8). Now Paul suggested not to make it an offense, but still declared that it would not taint them if they ate, because of their faith in Christ. That case alone tells volumes.
"Fulfillment of the law" means not only that Jesus lived perfectly. It also means that promises have been fulfilled, and there is no need to do the ritual anymore, like circumcision or sabbath, which were promises for better things which are described in the New testament, circumcision of the heart and sabbath in resting from one's own works (Heb 4). They could not rest from their own works or get that change of heart before Christ came. If all people who didnt follow OT Jewish way of sabbath did not get saved, that makes Christ really a poor savior...
I'll follow whatever conviction GOD puts into my heart, not what men attempt to guilt me into doing, if God Himself didnt write it into my heart and I start doing it, it is sin for me as it is not of faith. Seems some have problem understanding that and try to force their own convictions upon others. Our convictions cannot be equal because we have different amounts of faith (Rom 14), except of course they are equal for things like lying and murder. And also these equate not following Jewish traditions as disobedience to God and also think they are better pleasing to God or more spiritual than others for keeping these traditions. Some women feel convicted to wear scarves on their heads, too, and they call upon the Bible. But what really matters is if the conscience is defiled or not? For the woman with scarf conviction, it gets defiled if she doesnt wear it. The woman who believes Christ is the covering has clean conscience. But often the first will condemn the other.
1 Corinthians 8:7 Howbeit there is not in every man that knowledge: for some with conscience of the idol unto this hour eat it as a thing offered unto an idol; and their conscience being weak is defiled.
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P
Rom 14:13-23
Therefore let us not judge one another anymore, but rather determine this—not to put an obstacle or a stumbling block in a brother’s way.
I know and am convinced in the Lord Jesus that nothing is unclean in itself; but to him who thinks anything to be unclean, to him it is unclean.
For if because of food your brother is hurt, you are no longer walking according to love. Do not destroy with your food him for whom Christ died.
Therefore do not let what is for you a good thing be spoken of as evil;
for the kingdom of God is not eating and drinking, but righteousness and peace and joy in the Holy Spirit.
For he who in this way serves Christ is acceptable to God and approved by men.
So then we pursue the things which make for peace and the building up of one another.
Do not tear down the work of God for the sake of food. All things indeed are clean, but they are evil for the man who eats and gives offense.
It is good not to eat meat or to drink wine, or to do anything by which your brother stumbles.
The faith which you have, have as your own conviction before God. Happy is he who does not condemn himself in what he approves.
But he who doubts is condemned if he eats, because his eating is not from faith;
and whatever is not from faith is sin.
if teatotalers came to our house, i'd never serve wine...
if our friends who don't eat pork come, i certainly don't serve bacon.
for Jesus' sake. ♥
Therefore let us not judge one another anymore, but rather determine this—not to put an obstacle or a stumbling block in a brother’s way.
I know and am convinced in the Lord Jesus that nothing is unclean in itself; but to him who thinks anything to be unclean, to him it is unclean.
For if because of food your brother is hurt, you are no longer walking according to love. Do not destroy with your food him for whom Christ died.
Therefore do not let what is for you a good thing be spoken of as evil;
for the kingdom of God is not eating and drinking, but righteousness and peace and joy in the Holy Spirit.
For he who in this way serves Christ is acceptable to God and approved by men.
So then we pursue the things which make for peace and the building up of one another.
Do not tear down the work of God for the sake of food. All things indeed are clean, but they are evil for the man who eats and gives offense.
It is good not to eat meat or to drink wine, or to do anything by which your brother stumbles.
The faith which you have, have as your own conviction before God. Happy is he who does not condemn himself in what he approves.
But he who doubts is condemned if he eats, because his eating is not from faith;
and whatever is not from faith is sin.
if teatotalers came to our house, i'd never serve wine...
if our friends who don't eat pork come, i certainly don't serve bacon.
for Jesus' sake. ♥
K
Sorry, but this is not about sanctification and not salvation.
This has every bit to do with salvation. The foundation of our faith is our Lord, if you say He is your Lord then your faith will be built of this and you will hear and do His sayings. Those who partakers in Christ and the Holy Spirit can still fall from the faith. The scriptures say we are molded and worked to perfection.
Hebrews 6:4-6
For it is impossible, in the case of those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, and have shared in the Holy Spirit, and have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the age to come, and then have fallen away, to restore them again to repentance, since they are crucifying once again the Son of God to their own harm and holding him up to contempt.
Hebrews 3:12-14
Take care, brothers, lest there be in any of you an evil, unbelieving heart, leading you to fall away from the living God. But exhort one another every day, as long as it is called “today,” that none of you may be hardened by the deceitfulness of sin. For we have come to share in Christ, if indeed we hold our original confidence firm to the end.