Why do people not understand.. Dead means dead.

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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#241
#241
kennethcadwell said:
I asked that question because you and E.G. have said that a person who is saved can not become unsaved, or fall away.
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Eternal life is not conditional. if it can be lost, it is not eternal life.

perfected forever means forever. If it is not forever, then God lied.

Never hunger, never thirst live forever, never die, ressurected are the words of Christ in John 6. if this is not true, God lied.

Do you want a God who lies, or a God who keeps his word?

So I asked the question because to me if you are a partaker in Christ, and you have received the Holy Spirit then you are in a saved state. But the writer, rather it be Paul or one of his understudies, in Hebrews says that even though you have become a partaker in Christ and received the Holy Spirit you can still fall away.

So again the question would be;

Do you believe a person who has become a partaker in Christ, and received the Holy Spirit is saved ?
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If I have the gospel. I have grace in my hands, But I must accept it totally in faith, otherwise I am not saved.

Many people have recieved it, and had it in their grasp. only to walk away and go back to what they were before.

again the old addage, a dog returns to his old vomit (ie in the context of Heb 6, a jew returns to the law)
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#242
#242
dcontroversal said:
If you would just open your eyes to the absurdity of what you just stated ok let me get this straight...

saved--sin--lost--repent--saved--sinned--lost--repent--saved--sinned--lost--repent---saved--sinned--lost--repent
over and over and over and over and over.....yeah right.....NOT!
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he does not get it, the very passage which he uses to prove salvation can be lost, states clearly, if one falls away, they can never get saved again, they have lost it forever.
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#243
#243
kennethcadwell said:
Then if you believe that one who is a partaker in Christ and has received the Holy Spirit is saved and can not fall away, then you go against the writer of Hebrews who says that they can.

That is why I asked this question because Paul or one who studied under him wrote Hebrews, and they say in chapter 3 and chapter 6 that they can fall away.
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it never said they recieved the HS.

this is your flaw.
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#244
#244
p_rehbein said:
F.Y.I..............believe it or not...............but I agree with this article.........y'all are free to believe as you wish....... :)

(excerpt from Article)

"If any man sin..." Notice first of all that this verse says "IF". If a Christian sins then he needs to confess the sin and repent of it. Christians who sin must acknowledge their guilt and seek the mercy that comes from God through Jesus Christ. If the Christian refuses to admit the sin and instead chooses to call it a "mistake" and does not seek the forgiveness of God then he or she is in danger of falling under the wrath of God (Heb. 10:26-31). As James 5:19-20 says, if a Christian wanders from the truth and commits sin, he needs to be restored in order to be saved from death.

(found here:)

What happens if a Christian sins? Is there hope?
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That article teaches law. Not grace,

The law condemns you when you sin. So much for not being under law.

Talk about living in fear. I guess paul lied when he said God has not given us a spirit of bondage to fear, but of a loving abba father.
 
dcontroversal

dcontroversal

Banned
#245
Dec 12, 2013
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#245
p_rehbein said:
Point is.............Free Will..........and a person's ability to turn their backs on Christ..........it happens........OSAS is one theological ideology that I will never accept..........sorry
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No need to apologize to me about it....I accept it because my bible tells me that every thing that God does is eternal and your right to (freely) believe what you choose to believe!
 
dcontroversal

dcontroversal

Banned
#246
Dec 12, 2013
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#246
eternally-gratefull said:
he does not get it, the very passage which he uses to prove salvation can be lost, states clearly, if one falls away, they can never get saved again, they have lost it forever.
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No doubt and I guess you can sin, be lost and re-saved like a million times.......wonder which sins equate to loss of salvation or how many sins will cause you to loose it....seems they really do not understand eternal, everlasting and a few other words of like caliber and order!
 
SoulWeaver

SoulWeaver

Senior Member
#247
Oct 25, 2014
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#247
dcontroversal said:
the bible also teaches that one who lives a continual lifestyle of sin was not saved in the first place......!
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1 John 2:19 They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us.
I would like to hear what are the people who believe the salvation can be lost rejoicing about in Christ? Because if one can fall off as described, I really dont get what is there to rejoice about. If nothing is safe and secure and can be taken away anytime, one is rejoicing exactly in what? There is no time and space to rejoice with such a view either, one with such belief should rather focus to strive and never be able to have peace until they make sure they are saved, that is, until they die (finally some rest, of course in case they "made it" into Heaven).
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#248
#248
dcontroversal said:
No doubt and I guess you can sin, be lost and re-saved like a million times.......wonder which sins equate to loss of salvation or how many sins will cause you to loose it....seems they really do not understand eternal, everlasting and a few other words of like caliber and order!
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well according to hebrews, You can only lose it once, then your done forever, so their is no saved, unsaved saved unsaved.

remember, It says clearly, If they fall away, they can not be renewed to repentance, there is no renewal.
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#249
#249
SoulWeaver said:
1 John 2:19 They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us.
I would like to hear what are the people who believe the salvation can be lost rejoicing about in Christ? Because if one can fall off as described, I really dont get what is there to rejoice about. If nothing is safe and secure and can be taken away anytime, one is rejoicing exactly in what? There is no time and space to rejoice with such a view, one with such belief one should rather focus to strive and never be able to have peace until they make sure they are saved, that is, until they die (finally some rest, of course in case they "made it" into Heaven).
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your right, no hope. only fear.
 
p_rehbein

p_rehbein

Senior Member
#250
Sep 4, 2013
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#250
eternally-gratefull said:

That article teaches law. Not grace,

The law condemns you when you sin. So much for not being under law.

Talk about living in fear. I guess paul lied when he said God has not given us a spirit of bondage to fear, but of a loving abba father.
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How silly...............the Article teaches Grace and not Law........but, hey, if you believe that once saved, you can live and do as you wish regardless of your actions..........then, enjoy! :)
 
dcontroversal

dcontroversal

Banned
#251
Dec 12, 2013
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#251
SoulWeaver said:
1 John 2:19 They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us.
I would like to hear what are the people who believe the salvation can be lost rejoicing about in Christ? Because if one can fall off as described, I really dont get what is there to rejoice about. If nothing is safe and secure and can be taken away anytime, one is rejoicing exactly in what? There is no time and space to rejoice with such a view either, one with such belief should rather focus to strive and never be able to have peace until they make sure they are saved, that is, until they die (finally some rest, of course in case they "made it" into Heaven).
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I agree as the bible also states that we are saved by HOPE and what hope is there in the belief that one can loose something that is eternal........no hope in that message at all....just constant fear and praying that you are not one work short and or have one too many sins.....!
 
dcontroversal

dcontroversal

Banned
#252
Dec 12, 2013
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#252
p_rehbein said:
How silly...............the Article teaches Grace and not Law........but, hey, if you believe that once saved, you can live and do as you wish regardless of your actions..........then, enjoy! :)
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Again another assumption and twist by someone who believes you can loose it, as he has never said you can live anyway you want to...so deep down your salvation is based upon what you do or don't do as opposed to what Christ has done right?
 
p_rehbein

p_rehbein

Senior Member
#253
Sep 4, 2013
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#253
dcontroversal said:
No need to apologize to me about it....I accept it because my bible tells me that every thing that God does is eternal and your right to (freely) believe what you choose to believe!
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So, when God says the wages of sin is death..........that part wasn't eternal........and when Jesus said "those who endure" will be saved, He was lying about that? Is that right? Ok.............well, shoot! Why in the world do I strive and struggle so very hard every day to walk Christ-like? No need to right.......'cuz I'm saved! I kin do as I wish.........No need to worry 'bout nothing anymore...........whew, that's a real load off..........
 
dcontroversal

dcontroversal

Banned
#254
Dec 12, 2013
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#254
eternally-gratefull said:
well according to hebrews, You can only lose it once, then your done forever, so their is no saved, unsaved saved unsaved.

remember, It says clearly, If they fall away, they can not be renewed to repentance, there is no renewal.
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I agree...if one can loose it there is not getting it back which shows the absurdity of their belief...wonder how many of them will admit that they have lost their salvation based upon Hebrews saying you cannot get it back......and my use of saved--sinned--loose it--repent--saved--sinned--lose it---repent etc...shows the absurdity of what they believe....no hope in that message!
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#255
#255
p_rehbein said:
How silly...............the Article teaches Grace and not Law........but, hey, if you believe that once saved, you can live and do as you wish regardless of your actions..........then, enjoy! :)
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How can it teach grace, if it says every time someone sins they must repent because their salvation is lost?

Now, if it says I get chastened by God like a perent chastens their kids, I could agree, but to say one dies because of a sin, well the law is what causes that. That is law, not grace.

I never said I could live as I want with no consequences. Anyone who says that is a fool. and has never been chastened by the lord.

Deuteronomy 8:5
You should know in your heart that as a man chastens his son, so the Lord your God chastens you.

Deuteronomy 21:18
[ The Rebellious Son ] “If a man has a stubborn and rebellious son who will not obey the voice of his father or the voice of his mother, and who, when they have chastened him, will not heed them,

Psalm 118:18
The Lord has chastened me severely, But He has not given me over to death.

1 Corinthians 11:32
But when we are judged, we are chastened by the Lord, that we may not be condemned with the world.

Hebrews 12:6
For whom the Lord loves He chastens, And scourges every son whom He receives.”

Hebrews 12:8
But if you are without chastening, of which all have become partakers, then you are illegitimate and not sons.
 
dcontroversal

dcontroversal

Banned
#256
Dec 12, 2013
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#256
p_rehbein said:
So, when God says the wages of sin is death..........that part wasn't eternal........and when Jesus said "those who endure" will be saved, He was lying about that? Is that right? Ok.............well, shoot! Why in the world do I strive and struggle so very hard every day to walk Christ-like? No need to right.......'cuz I'm saved! I kin do as I wish.........No need to worry 'bout nothing anymore...........whew, that's a real load off..........
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How about the rest....BUT THE GIFT OF GOD IS ETERNAL LIFE DIA JESUS CHRIST OUR LORD.....what part of eternal don't you understand? And the rest is assumptions and or absurdity as no one teaches that you can live any way you want....PUNS for sure with no real merit Paul!
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#257
#257
p_rehbein said:
So, when God says the wages of sin is death..........
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If your under law, the wage of sin is death, because cursed is everyone who does not confirm and obey ever word written in the law.

that part wasn't eternal........
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It was eternal. until the lamb of God came and took the payment of sin,

and when Jesus said "those who endure" will be saved, He was lying about that? Is that right?
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He never spoke of this concerning eternal salvation.

Ok.............well, shoot! Why in the world do I strive and struggle so very hard every day to walk Christ-like? No need to right.......'cuz I'm saved! I kin do as I wish.........No need to worry 'bout nothing anymore...........whew, that's a real load off..........
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If your struggling, your depending on self not Christ.

then again, It looks like your one of the lawyers trying to earn your way in, So no wonder you struggle.
 
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newbirth

Banned
#258
Mar 28, 2014
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#258
eternally-gratefull said:
it never said they recieved the HS.

this is your flaw.
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[SUP]4 [/SUP]For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,....
How did they get it ...???
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#259
#259
dcontroversal said:
How about the rest....BUT THE GIFT OF GOD IS ETERNAL LIFE DIA JESUS CHRIST OUR LORD.....what part of eternal don't you understand? And the rest is assumptions and or absurdity as no one teaches that you can live any way you want....PUNS for sure with no real merit Paul!
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they do not believe in the gift, they are trying to earn eternal life. so of course he would ignore that parrt
 
p_rehbein

p_rehbein

Senior Member
#260
Sep 4, 2013
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#260
eternally-gratefull said:

they do not believe in the gift, they are trying to earn eternal life. so of course he would ignore that parrt
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If you are referring to me, you are so very wrong that it is just plain sad.....................goodness.........
 
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