Why do people not understand.. Dead means dead.

[eternally-gratefull]

I said that because Dconn said obedience does not matter to bring us to, and to keep salvation.
That is false because like I showed before, you have to obey the command to repent before you are saved.

repentance is not from you, it is from God.

God has to convict you and bring you to a knowledge of him before you can trust what he came to give (FAITH)

why do you refuse to humble yourself and come to the throne of Grace and give CHRIST ALL THE CREDIT.



Why do you want to take credit away from Christ, and place it on yourself? Thats pride dude, and that is works of the flesh. not the work of God.

 

[kennethcadwell]

I am not mocking nobody, this is exactly what Dconn said in his response to me about obedience.
He said obedience does not bring us to, and keep us saved.
You have to be obedient to the Lord by having faith and trust in Him, and you have to obey the command to repent of your sins before you are saved.

Kenneth here is where u miss the boat....NO ONE has said that we are not to be OBEDIENT to the word...the contention is, does OUR OBEDIENCE bring and to KEEP salvation...the answer is NO

FAITH into who Jesus is and what he has done BRINGS ETERNAL LIFE, SALVATION, JUSTIFICATION to the believer and is based upon the FAITH OF JESUS which is why it is eternal.

A saved child of GOD will walk according to the word of God and be faithful, sometimes they fail, sometimes they sin, sometimes the slip..doesn't change the fact of eternal life in JESUS!

It is important. Stop mocking us and saying we do not believe this. It is offensive, a lie, and slandering people. Your in sin every time you do this. And you cannot even see it



Yep, you did say this, because you think repentnance is a work, when it is not.

Repentance is a change of heart. It is when one stops trying to be his own God, reject the god of the universe (which every one of us did before we were saved) and admit in humility we are sinners, rightly condemned. And Christ came to save us.

And to take it further, we can not just believe this, WE MUST HAVE FAITH IN THIS.

mere belief will not save you, FAITH SAVES. That is what JAMES proved in his second chapter.

Jesus made it clear. IT IS THE WORK OF GOD THAT WE BELIEVE IN THE ONE HE SENT.

so your going to take credit for the work of God and make it an act of obedience??

you go ahead and take credit, God took me to my knees, and showed me no way out, Or I would still not believe in him, and still be lost in my sin, GOD GAVE ME FAITH.

 

[kennethcadwell]

repentance is not from you, it is from God.

God has to convict you and bring you to a knowledge of him before you can trust what he came to give (FAITH)

why do you refuse to humble yourself and come to the throne of Grace and give CHRIST ALL THE CREDIT.



Why do you want to take credit away from Christ, and place it on yourself? Thats pride dude, and that is works of the flesh. not the work of God.

There you go trying to twist things around again.
I do give credit for all that is done in my life to the Lord our God.

Did He though say I repent of your sins for you, or does He say you need to repent of your sins or perish ?

Luke 13:3


I tell you, no! But unless you repent, you too will all perish.

 

[peacefulbeliever]

It is a gift for those who are faithful and obedient to Him.
I just gave 100 scriptures from all over the bible showing how obedience is important in a believers walk. From the OT to the NT it clearly shows obedience being key. If obedience is not important then the bible would not have spent so many scriptures pointing to it.

Obedience is important in a believer's walk - the walk comes AFTER salvation and you don't come out of the "womb" running! You start out crawling, then you begin to walk - a lot of stumbling at first - then you begin to run and as we know - even when running we can fall down . . . .

 

[SoulWeaver]

Like I said before for instance, a person is not saved tell they obey the command to repent of their sins.
Obedience comes before one is saved, not after.

The bold text seems to be the point of disagreement. I could not obey or follow God until I was saved.
After I believed, the obedience followed. I obeyed because I believed, it just came naturally that I couldnt continue living like there is no God when I know by my faith He is real and normally that makes Him top priority in my life, plus He saved me, I love Him because He first loved me...

That anyone could obey God before being saved/believing, I have (honestly) never heard such a testimony...

 

[kennethcadwell]

Obedience is important in a believer's walk - the walk comes AFTER salvation and you don't come out of the "womb" running! You start out crawling, then you begin to walk - a lot of stumbling at first - then you begin to run and as we know - even when running we can fall down . . . .

The bold text seems to be the point of disagreement. I could not obey or follow God until I was saved.
After I believed, the obedience followed. I obeyed because I believed, it just came naturally that I couldnt continue living like there is no God when I know by my faith He is real and normally that makes Him top priority in my life, plus He saved me, I love Him because He first loved me...

That anyone could obey God before being saved/believing, I have (honestly) never heard such a testimony...

The problem with the way you two think on that though is that our Lord Jesus clearly says that you are not saved before you repent of your sins.

Luke 13:3
I tell you, no! But unless you repent, you too will all perish.


You see here He says you will still perish if you don't repent of your sins, so you have to obey the command to repent before you are saved. You are not saved before repentance.

 

[kennethcadwell]

There are steps to a believers life that comes before one can be saved.

First we are given repenting of sins to be saved, the second goes with this, and that is you have to forgive others of their sins or you will not be forgiven of yours no matter how much you repent or ask forgiveness.
If you show no mercy of forgiveness to others, He says He will show no mercy or forgiveness to you.

If have to confess Him before others, and if you deny Him before others and not repent of that way there is no salvation either.

He says if you love Him, you will keep and obey His commandments. Those who do not keep or obey His commandments has no truth in them. No salvation.

 

[peacefulbeliever]

The problem with the way you two think on that though is that our Lord Jesus clearly says that you are not saved before you repent of your sins.
Luke 13:3
I tell you, no! But unless you repent, you too will all perish.


You see here He says you will still perish if you don't repent of your sins, so you have to obey the command to repent before you are saved. You are not saved before repentance.

For God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten Son that whosoever believes in him should not perish but have everlasting life.

repent means to have a change of mind - the change of mind is turning from unbelief to belief. When one believes in Christ it is an automatic repentance from unbeliever to believer - at that point your sins are forgiven.

No problem with our thinking . . .

 

[SoulWeaver]

There are steps to a believers life that comes before one can be saved.

That sounds contradictory... if someone is not saved, then they are not a believer.

He says if you love Him, you will keep and obey His commandments. Those who do not keep or obey His commandments has no truth in them. No salvation.

And we love Him because...?
I repented from my entire old lifestyle, because I believed, and I believed Him because I loved Him, and I loved Jesus because He first loved me <3, so yeah it is a gift whole and His beautiful mercy... I have no reason to doubt my salvation as long as I did repent and I walk with Him daily (which I was not able to do before being saved, and at that moment I knew one thing for sure, I knew that I would not go back, EVER, to the vomit which was my life).

God first forgave the servant his debt, then required that he forgives his fellowservant... then when the fellowservant didnt, cast him into the prison (importance of obedience). But God's gift came FIRST.
I believe you got the order wrong on this one and the OP is correct...

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I am not mocking nobody, this is exactly what Dconn said in his response to me about obedience.
He said obedience does not bring us to, and keep us saved.
You have to be obedient to the Lord by having faith and trust in Him, and you have to obey the command to repent of your sins before you are saved.

He never said what you claimed he did.

You are misreading him, misinterpreting him, as you always do.

in fact this is what he said.

Kenneth here is where u miss the boat....NO ONE has said that we are not to be OBEDIENT to the word

 

[newbirth]

repentance is not from you, it is from God.

do you even think before you write....we have to repent ...not God
Acts 2:38
Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

God has to convict you and bring you to a knowledge of him before you can trust what he came to give (FAITH)

your opinion ...that is not in scripture....

 

[eternally-gratefull]

There you go trying to twist things around again.
I do give credit for all that is done in my life to the Lord our God.

How can you, when you claim repentance is your work of obedience and not Gods?

Did He though say I repent of your sins for you, or does He say you need to repent of your sins or perish ?

Luke 13:3


I tell you, no! But unless you repent, you too will all perish.

How do we come to repentance? Who is it to bring us to faith?

I already gave you the answer.

It is the WORK OF GOD that you believe in the one he sent.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

The bold text seems to be the point of disagreement. I could not obey or follow God until I was saved.
After I believed, the obedience followed. I obeyed because I believed, it just came naturally that I couldnt continue living like there is no God when I know by my faith He is real and normally that makes Him top priority in my life, plus He saved me, I love Him because He first loved me...

That anyone could obey God before being saved/believing, I have (honestly) never heard such a testimony...

you would be correct. and scripture teaches that before we are born of the spirit, there can BE NO OBEDIENCE.

We may act like a christian, talk like a christian, walk like a christian. But we are not a christian, never have been, Until we are born of God. (it is not the act which makes us obedient, it is the thought behind the act that makes one obedient)

 

[eternally-gratefull]

The problem with the way you two think on that though is that our Lord Jesus clearly says that you are not saved before you repent of your sins.

Luke 13:3
I tell you, no! But unless you repent, you too will all perish.


You see here He says you will still perish if you don't repent of your sins, so you have to obey the command to repent before you are saved. You are not saved before repentance.

no one here said anyone was saved before.

REPENTANCE comes BEFORE FAITH, It is what BRINGS US TO FAITH.

God has to convict and bring us to a knowledge of him, if we have faith in this (his word) then we are saved, because we repented.

If we reject this word (continue to trust what we always have, which is self) then we are not saved, because we have not yet repented.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

For God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten Son that whosoever believes in him should not perish but have everlasting life.

repent means to have a change of mind - the change of mind is turning from unbelief to belief. When one believes in Christ it is an automatic repentance from unbeliever to believer - at that point your sins are forgiven.

No problem with our thinking . . .

yes, repenting is going from unbelief or mere belief to a physical living faith in what God has told you about yourself, about him, and about what he did to save you.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

That sounds contradictory... if someone is not saved, then they are not a believer.

Amen!

And we love Him because...?
I repented from my entire old lifestyle, because I believed, and I believed Him because I loved Him, and I loved Jesus because He first loved me <3, so yeah it is a gift whole and His beautiful mercy... I have no reason to doubt my salvation as long as I did repent and I walk with Him daily (which I was not able to do before being saved, and at that moment I knew one thing for sure, I knew that I would not go back, EVER, to the vomit which was my life).

God first forgave the servant his debt, then required that he forgives his fellowservant... then when the fellowservant didnt, cast him into the prison (importance of obedience). But God's gift came FIRST.
I believe you got the order wrong on this one and the OP is correct...

Amen and Amen again and again!

 

[kennethcadwell]

That sounds contradictory... if someone is not saved, then they are not a believer.


And we love Him because...?
I repented from my entire old lifestyle, because I believed, and I believed Him because I loved Him, and I loved Jesus because He first loved me <3, so yeah it is a gift whole and His beautiful mercy... I have no reason to doubt my salvation as long as I did repent and I walk with Him daily (which I was not able to do before being saved, and at that moment I knew one thing for sure, I knew that I would not go back, EVER, to the vomit which was my life).

God first forgave the servant his debt, then required that he forgives his fellowservant... then when the fellowservant didnt, cast him into the prison (importance of obedience). But God's gift came FIRST.
I believe you got the order wrong on this one and the OP is correct...

So you are saved before you repent ?

Jesus says no, you will still perish, so if you can still perish before obeying the command to repent of sins then you can not be saved yet. Either that or this blows OSAS way out the window, because then it would show that one can fall away and perish after being saved.

He never said what you claimed he did.

You are misreading him, misinterpreting him, as you always do.

in fact this is what he said.

Kenneth here is where u miss the boat....NO ONE has said that we are not to be OBEDIENT to the word

I showed you exactly where he said that, and no I am not misreading him.
We were not talking about being obedient to the word after being saved, we were talking about rather obedience is needed for one to be saved, or keep one saved. He said it is not needed for either.
Problem is obeying the command to repent does refute that.

 

[kennethcadwell]

For God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten Son that whosoever believes in him should not perish but have everlasting life.

repent means to have a change of mind - the change of mind is turning from unbelief to belief. When one believes in Christ it is an automatic repentance from unbeliever to believer - at that point your sins are forgiven.

No problem with our thinking . . .

yes, repenting is going from unbelief or mere belief to a physical living faith in what God has told you about yourself, about him, and about what he did to save you.

Sorry you two but going from unbelief to belief is only part of repentance.

It is a change of mind to see how your sins have separated us from God, and to turn from them and not walk in them any more. You can not say you repented and changed from unbelief to belief, and still walk in those sins.
Lord Jesus makes it clear that it is about turning from our sins. In the person He is talking to in Luke the subject is about sins, and He tells the person do you thing these people are worse sinners then those people. Then He tells him no, unless he repents of his sins as well he also will perish.

 

[SoulWeaver]

So you are saved before you repent ?

REPENTANCE comes BEFORE FAITH, It is what BRINGS US TO FAITH.

Ok I admit I dont know what would be the "correct" sequence in that one, faith or repentance first, lol, but it happens kinda at the same time. At least it did happen at the same time to me... I repented of my unbelief...so yeah it was simultaneous... what matters more to me is that it did happen though.

I guess there was a small confusion of terms.
I talked about obedience, and Kenneth seems to talk about the very repentance when one is saved.

 

[SoulWeaver]

It is a change of mind to see how your sins have separated us from God, and to turn from them and not walk in them any more. You can not say you repented and changed from unbelief to belief, and still walk in those sins.

I do not walk as I walked, I walk with God now. It is very ugly to pronounce judgments of this kind.