Do you agree with the doctrine that says JESUS died spiritually?
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P
The words of a dying man. His death is what finished it. There can be no doubt about scripture.
Hebrews 9:11,12 "But Christ being come an high priest of good things to come, by a greater and more perfect tabernacle, not made with hands, that is to say, not of this building; Neither by the blood of goats and calves, but by his own blood he entered in once into the holy place, having obtained eternal redemption for us."
13,14 "For if the blood of bulls and of goats, and the ashes of an heifer sprinkling the unclean, sanctifieth to the purifying of the flesh:
How much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without spot to God, purge your conscience from dead works to serve the living God?"
22 "And almost all things are by the law purged with blood; and without shedding of blood is no remission."
Remission of what? Mankind's sins! How did we get our sins forgiven? By the blood of Christ!
Hebrews 9:26 "but now once in the end of the world hath he appeared to put away sin by the sacrifice of himself."
1 Corinthians 5:7 "Purge out therefore the old leaven, that ye may be a new lump, as ye are unleavened. For even Christ our passover is sacrificed for us"
What is the difference between a passover lamb and any other lamb that is without blemish? They didn't choke the sheep to death, they didn't hit them in the head with a rock or a club, they didn't drown them. They what? Cut their throat. Why? Because without the shedding of blood it was not a passover lamb. That is the only difference. And Christ, being our passover lamb, had to shed His blood. That is what it took, His blood, to cleanse you of sin.
I am not going any further with this lesson. The bible is not hard to understand. You know, you rock along and talk a good game, and then you spout off some of the most foolish doctrines. The bible very clearly points out the errors of this doctrine you are advocating, and yet instead of listening to reason, you get defensive. You really need to examine your doctrine thru the bible. It is the only way to heaven. It is Christ and He died to bring it to you.
Take that scripture to heart my friend, it is important.
Hebrews 9:11,12 "But Christ being come an high priest of good things to come, by a greater and more perfect tabernacle, not made with hands, that is to say, not of this building; Neither by the blood of goats and calves, but by his own blood he entered in once into the holy place, having obtained eternal redemption for us."
13,14 "For if the blood of bulls and of goats, and the ashes of an heifer sprinkling the unclean, sanctifieth to the purifying of the flesh:
How much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without spot to God, purge your conscience from dead works to serve the living God?"
22 "And almost all things are by the law purged with blood; and without shedding of blood is no remission."
Remission of what? Mankind's sins! How did we get our sins forgiven? By the blood of Christ!
Hebrews 9:26 "but now once in the end of the world hath he appeared to put away sin by the sacrifice of himself."
1 Corinthians 5:7 "Purge out therefore the old leaven, that ye may be a new lump, as ye are unleavened. For even Christ our passover is sacrificed for us"
What is the difference between a passover lamb and any other lamb that is without blemish? They didn't choke the sheep to death, they didn't hit them in the head with a rock or a club, they didn't drown them. They what? Cut their throat. Why? Because without the shedding of blood it was not a passover lamb. That is the only difference. And Christ, being our passover lamb, had to shed His blood. That is what it took, His blood, to cleanse you of sin.
I am not going any further with this lesson. The bible is not hard to understand. You know, you rock along and talk a good game, and then you spout off some of the most foolish doctrines. The bible very clearly points out the errors of this doctrine you are advocating, and yet instead of listening to reason, you get defensive. You really need to examine your doctrine thru the bible. It is the only way to heaven. It is Christ and He died to bring it to you.
Take that scripture to heart my friend, it is important.
K
I know its a lot for y'all to take in. But, when Jesus died on the cross, He went to a place called paradise and preached the gospel to to the saints of old. He did not go to the plae of eternal torment. When OT saints died they went sheol or paradise and you can find this in Luke oh I think it's 15 or 16. Where the rich man died and died and saw Moses and asked for a drop of water and he said I cannot for there is a great gulf between us and so far and such. When Jesus died on the cross the thief said "will you remember me when you come into your kingdom" and Jesus replied " today you will be with me in Paradise". He went there to take captive captive. In other words to set them free s Satan had right to hold them but not to torment them. Because the the blood sacrifice of the lamb only covered sin and did not eradicate sin. The price of sin was not paid until the cross so all the ot saints went to paradise and after paradise was emptied the bible says that hell enlarged itself. to take on all the evolutionist and atheist.
P
[SUP]2 Cor. 5:14 [/SUP]For the love of Christ constraineth us; because we thus judge, that if one died for all, then were all dead:
[SUP]15 [/SUP]And that he died for all, that they which live should not henceforth live unto themselves, but unto him which died for them, and rose again.
[SUP]16 [/SUP]Wherefore henceforth know we no man after the flesh: yea, though we have known Christ after the flesh, yet now henceforth know we him no more.
[SUP]17 [/SUP]Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.
[SUP]18 [/SUP]And all things are of God, who hath reconciled us to himself by Jesus Christ, and hath given to us the ministry of reconciliation;
[SUP]19 [/SUP]To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.
[SUP]20 [/SUP]Now then we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God did beseech you by us: we pray you in Christ's stead, be ye reconciled to God.
[SUP]21[/SUP]For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.
Rom. 6 What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound?
[SUP]2 [/SUP]God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?
[SUP]3 [/SUP]Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?
[SUP]4 [/SUP]Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
[SUP]5 [/SUP]For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:
[SUP]6 [/SUP]Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.
[SUP]7 [/SUP]For he that is dead is freed from sin.
[SUP]8 [/SUP]Now if we be dead with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with him:
[SUP]9 [/SUP]Knowing that Christ being raised from the dead dieth no more; death hath no more dominion over him.
[SUP]10 [/SUP]For in that he died, he died unto sin once: but in that he liveth, he liveth unto God.
[SUP]11 [/SUP]Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord.
[SUP]12 [/SUP]Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, that ye should obey it in the lusts thereof.
[SUP]13 [/SUP]Neither yield ye your members as instruments of unrighteousness unto sin: but yield yourselves unto God, as those that are alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness unto God.
[SUP]Heb. 9:26 [/SUP]For then must he often have suffered since the foundation of the world: but now once in the end of the world hath he appeared to put away sin by the sacrifice of himself.
[SUP]27 [/SUP]And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:
[SUP]28 [/SUP]So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation.
[SUP]Mt. 27:46 [/SUP]And about the ninth hour Jesus cried with a loud voice, saying, Eli, Eli, lama sabachthani? that is to say, My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?
[SUP]Mk. 15:34 [/SUP]And at the ninth hour Jesus cried with a loud voice, saying, Eloi, Eloi, lama sabachthani? which is, being interpreted, My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?
Your friend in Christ
pug32
[SUP]15 [/SUP]And that he died for all, that they which live should not henceforth live unto themselves, but unto him which died for them, and rose again.
[SUP]16 [/SUP]Wherefore henceforth know we no man after the flesh: yea, though we have known Christ after the flesh, yet now henceforth know we him no more.
[SUP]17 [/SUP]Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.
[SUP]18 [/SUP]And all things are of God, who hath reconciled us to himself by Jesus Christ, and hath given to us the ministry of reconciliation;
[SUP]19 [/SUP]To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.
[SUP]20 [/SUP]Now then we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God did beseech you by us: we pray you in Christ's stead, be ye reconciled to God.
[SUP]21[/SUP]For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.
Rom. 6 What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound?
[SUP]2 [/SUP]God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?
[SUP]3 [/SUP]Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?
[SUP]4 [/SUP]Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
[SUP]5 [/SUP]For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:
[SUP]6 [/SUP]Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.
[SUP]7 [/SUP]For he that is dead is freed from sin.
[SUP]8 [/SUP]Now if we be dead with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with him:
[SUP]9 [/SUP]Knowing that Christ being raised from the dead dieth no more; death hath no more dominion over him.
[SUP]10 [/SUP]For in that he died, he died unto sin once: but in that he liveth, he liveth unto God.
[SUP]11 [/SUP]Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord.
[SUP]12 [/SUP]Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, that ye should obey it in the lusts thereof.
[SUP]13 [/SUP]Neither yield ye your members as instruments of unrighteousness unto sin: but yield yourselves unto God, as those that are alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness unto God.
[SUP]Heb. 9:26 [/SUP]For then must he often have suffered since the foundation of the world: but now once in the end of the world hath he appeared to put away sin by the sacrifice of himself.
[SUP]27 [/SUP]And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:
[SUP]28 [/SUP]So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation.
[SUP]Mt. 27:46 [/SUP]And about the ninth hour Jesus cried with a loud voice, saying, Eli, Eli, lama sabachthani? that is to say, My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?
[SUP]Mk. 15:34 [/SUP]And at the ninth hour Jesus cried with a loud voice, saying, Eloi, Eloi, lama sabachthani? which is, being interpreted, My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?
Your friend in Christ
pug32
He had to die to destroy the physical nature of the laws that had to be performed in the physical, but the spiritual nature of the old covenant still lives and that is what we are suppose to focus on. The physical acts lead to death, but the spiritual acts leads to life. Its says that God desire mercy, not sacrifice; and which that it saying, that the acts of mercy is from the spirit of a person, but the other doesn't means that the person wanted mercy and which they uses sacrifices as a offering for mercy; but if a person shows mercy to others, that is a person that is hoping for mercy. Let's say if your were going to trial for murder, and the sentence is life, before your sentence is read to you, you'll be granting forgiveness to everyone in your past that had done you wrong, because you'll be hoping for forgiveness as well .
John 6:63 The Spirit gives life; the flesh counts for nothing. The words I have spoken to you they are full of the Spirit and life.
2 Corinthians 3:6 He has made us competent as ministers of a new covenant not of the letter but of the Spirit; for the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life.
Hebrews 6:1 Therefore let us move beyond the elementary teachings about Christ and be taken forward to maturity, not laying again the foundation of repentance from acts that lead to death, and of faith in God,
John 6:63 The Spirit gives life; the flesh counts for nothing. The words I have spoken to you they are full of the Spirit and life.
2 Corinthians 3:6 He has made us competent as ministers of a new covenant not of the letter but of the Spirit; for the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life.
Hebrews 6:1 Therefore let us move beyond the elementary teachings about Christ and be taken forward to maturity, not laying again the foundation of repentance from acts that lead to death, and of faith in God,
E
no. spiritual death is being dead to God, separated from God. a barrier is placed between you and God, . That is why we must be born again, Our spirit needs regenerated, and brought back into a right relationship with God, this can only happen through redemption.
titus 3: 5, Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but by HIS Mercy, he SAVED US by the washing and RENEWAL of the HS.
that is new birth or being born again.
Jesus did not have to go to hell to die spiritually, He just had to take out sin on his body, when he did this, a barrier went up between him and the father, and the father poured out his wrath on jesus spiritually dead body, that is why Jesus screamed,
Imagine being one with your father for all eternity, then having that relationship broken, All the physical pain did not cause jesus to raise his voice, (he had the spirit to comfort him) but imagine when the spirit left him because of our sin being placed to his account.
Tha is spiritual death, and that cause him to scream in pain.
the second death is when one who was spiritually dead, and remained in that state is judged, and cast out forever. eternally separated from God.
That is the first recorded lie. God said...
Gen 2:16 And the LORD God commanded the man, saying, Of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat:
Gen 2:17 But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.
And then Satan said...
Gen 3:4 And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die:
And people have believed him ever since...
Rev 12:9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.
What does scripture say about the soul?
Eze 18:4 Behold, all souls are mine; as the soul of the father, so also the soul of the son is mine: the soul that sinneth, it shall die.
Eze 18:20 The soul that sinneth, it shall die. The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father, neither shall the father bear the iniquity of the son: the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon him, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon him.
Mat 10:28 And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.
The word for destroy here is...
G622
ἀπόλλυμι
apollumi
ap-ol'-loo-mee
From G575 and the base of G3639; to destroy fully (reflexively to perish, or lose), literally or figuratively: - destroy, die, lose, mar, perish.
Total KJV occurrences: 92
It does not mean life in some other place, it means death and destruction. The wages of sin...
Rom 6:23 For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.
Word for death here...
G2288
θάνατος
thanatos
than'-at-os
From G2348; (properly an adjective used as a noun) death (literally or figuratively): - X deadly, (be . . .) death.
Total KJV occurrences: 119
Death and death for all eternity, not life in some other place.
Gen 2:16 And the LORD God commanded the man, saying, Of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat:
Gen 2:17 But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.
And then Satan said...
Gen 3:4 And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die:
And people have believed him ever since...
Rev 12:9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.
What does scripture say about the soul?
Eze 18:4 Behold, all souls are mine; as the soul of the father, so also the soul of the son is mine: the soul that sinneth, it shall die.
Eze 18:20 The soul that sinneth, it shall die. The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father, neither shall the father bear the iniquity of the son: the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon him, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon him.
Mat 10:28 And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.
The word for destroy here is...
G622
ἀπόλλυμι
apollumi
ap-ol'-loo-mee
From G575 and the base of G3639; to destroy fully (reflexively to perish, or lose), literally or figuratively: - destroy, die, lose, mar, perish.
Total KJV occurrences: 92
It does not mean life in some other place, it means death and destruction. The wages of sin...
Rom 6:23 For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.
Word for death here...
G2288
θάνατος
thanatos
than'-at-os
From G2348; (properly an adjective used as a noun) death (literally or figuratively): - X deadly, (be . . .) death.
Total KJV occurrences: 119
Death and death for all eternity, not life in some other place.
E
No that is not what is being argued by some, where do you people get this? do you listen to anything anyone says?
When jesus said it is finished, He was no longer screaming, the payment was done, The work was done, his fellowship with the father was restored, he was born again. because sin was removed.
it was then that "he gave up the ghost" Man did not kill him, he gave up his physical life. he could have jumped off that cross and took his rightful plase on the throne, but that was not Gods plan . Gods plan was for him to die, and be risen on the third day, so he could be the firstfruits of those who would be ressurected from the dead (us)
When jesus said it is finished, He was no longer screaming, the payment was done, The work was done, his fellowship with the father was restored, he was born again. because sin was removed.
it was then that "he gave up the ghost" Man did not kill him, he gave up his physical life. he could have jumped off that cross and took his rightful plase on the throne, but that was not Gods plan . Gods plan was for him to die, and be risen on the third day, so he could be the firstfruits of those who would be ressurected from the dead (us)
As I read on, I see now that some are adjusting their comments from Jesus WAS DEAD, to well, He took upon Himself sin and was separated from God..............HUGE DIFFERENCE there..........goodness.
DEAD is ceasing to exist.............being apart from God, separated by a sin filled life does not mean one does not exist.
Now, if this NEW slant is the one people want to put forth, then, yes, on the cross Jesus took upon Himself the sins of all mankind..........He who knew no sin, became sin............BUT at no time did He cease to exist as God the Son.......It was His precious blood that was the price for us, not three days in a tomb..........
DEAD is ceasing to exist.............being apart from God, separated by a sin filled life does not mean one does not exist.
Now, if this NEW slant is the one people want to put forth, then, yes, on the cross Jesus took upon Himself the sins of all mankind..........He who knew no sin, became sin............BUT at no time did He cease to exist as God the Son.......It was His precious blood that was the price for us, not three days in a tomb..........
R
Sounds like yet another twisted rubbish. Jesus made himsel flesh, lived fleshed and preached God's laws in the flesh. and most importantly, Was put on the cross in the flesh. Why would Jesus die in spirit and say that he died for the world in the flesh? it would make him a liar right? The Devil is the father of lies. and the more the devil opens his mouth of lies. people rather listen to his lies than believe that Jesus died on the cross as a human being and in the flesh.