Paul And James in Total, Complete Agreement On Works

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eternally-gratefull

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You turned it around a bit, James (Yaaqob) said:[SUP] "26 [/SUP]For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also."

Hebrew 11:6, "For without the faith it is impossible to please Him; for he who comes to Yahweh must believe that He is, and that He is a rewarder of those who diligently seek Him."

Habakkuk 2:4, "Behold the proud, his soul is not right in him; but the just will live by the faith (H#530 faith/faithfulness)."

Hebrew Word Study (Transliteration-Pronunciation Etymology & Grammar)
1) firmness, fidelity, steadfastness, steadiness

Brown-Driver-Briggs (Old Testament Hebrew-English Lexicon)
Feminine of H0529; literally firmness; figuratively security; moral fidelity:—faith (-ful, -ly, -ness, [man]), set office, stability, steady, truly, truth, verily.

Strong's (Hebrew & Chaldee Dictionary of the Old Testament) #530.
אֱמוּנָה
emunah (53c); from 539; firmness, steadfastness, fidelity:—
NASB - faith(1), faithful(3), faithfully(8), faithfulness(25), honestly(1), responsibility(1), stability(1), steady(1), trust(2), truth(5).

Yahdah (Juda) 1:3, "Beloved, when I gave all diligence to write to you about the common salvation, I found it necessary to write to you, and exhort you that you should earnestly contend for the faith which was once, for all, delivered to the saints. For there are certain men who have secretly crept in, who were before of old ordained for this condemnation, unholy men, who turn the undeserved pardon of our One Supreme Savior Yahweh into licentiousness, and deny Yahshua our Messiah."
Nah, I did not turn it around. A dead faith is no faith at all. it does not exist. that is why it does not obey God and do rightiousness.

Also notice. James said quite clearly. If a MAN CLAIMS he has faith but has NO work. can his faith save him.

The problem with using this passage to prove one must work to be saved, is james says no work whatsoever. In order for the legalist to claim James supports their theory, they have to claim that no work does not equal no work. it means somethimg else.

Not to mention, they are FORCED to claim (since James supposedly did not say, although he really did) how many works would show a true faith as apposed to a dead faith?
 

Hizikyah

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Aug 25, 2013
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of course it does. it would not disobey.
otherwise, it is not faith
"set their minds on the things of the Spirit"

Romans 8:5-8, "For those who live according to the flesh, set their minds on the things of the flesh; but those who live according to the Spirit, set their minds on the things of the Spirit. For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace. Because the carnal mind is enmity against; (bitterly opposed to), Yahweh; for it his not subject to the Law of Yahweh, nor indeed can be. So then, those who are of the flesh cannot please Yahweh."
 
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eternally-gratefull;1792008[QUOTE said:
]Nah, I did not turn it around. A dead faith is no faith at all. it does not exist. that is why it does not obey God and do rightiousness.

where does the scripture say it does not exist.....a dead faith is FAITH without works...that is what James says...you are a liar...and distort the word of God...



Also notice. James said quite clearly. If a MAN CLAIMS he has faith but has NO work. can his faith save him.
faith cannot save because it has no work....and you boast you are saved by Faith alone...another of your lies...


The problem with using this passage to prove one must work to be saved, is james says no work whatsoever. In order for the legalist to claim James supports their theory, they have to claim that no work does not equal no work. it means somethimg else.
we are saved by grace through faith....not of works (of the law which is what the Jews believed saves)...where does James say no work whatsoever???? another lie


Not to mention, they are FORCED to claim (since James supposedly did not say, although he really did) how many works would show a true faith as apposed to a dead faith?
you and DC are the ones demanding a list....you reject scripture...Faith without works is dead...in favour of doctrine of man..faith alone saves but the faith that saves is never alone...
 

mailmandan

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Apr 7, 2014
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Calvin followed a lot of Augustine that wrote in the 400's B.C. and Augustine was one of the later 'church fathers' that also helped to birth the RCC ....... so instead of accusing us of siding with Catholics in some "works salvation" -- it would be better to read CHURCH HISTORY and see what and who came from who and Where!! Ignorance of Church History is hurting us as well - as neither the First Church nor the Early Church believed in "faith alone" but stood by Biblical - New Testament Obedience unto salvation in the End.
Clement of Rome: "We also, being called through God's will in Christ Jesus, are not justified through ourselves, neither through our own wisdom or understanding, or piety, or works which we have done in holiness or heart, but through faith" (Epistle to Corinthians).

Polycarp: "I know that through grace you are saved, not of works, but by the will of God, through Jesus Christ (Epistle of Philippians).

Athanasius: "Not by these (i.e. human efforts) but by faith, a man is justified as was Abraham."

Ambrose: "Without the works of the law, to an ungodly man, that is to say, a Gentile, believing in Christ, his "faith is imputed for righteousness" as also it was to Abraham."

Augustine: "Grace is give to you, not wages paid to you...it is called grace because it is given gratuitously. By no precedent merits did you buy what you have received. The sinner therefore received this grace first, that his sins should be forgiven him...good works follow after a justified person; they do not go before in order that he may be justified...good works, following after justification, show what a man has received."

Augustine: "Now, having duly considered and weighed all these circumstances and testimonies, we conclude that a man is not justified by the precepts of a holy life, but by faith in Jesus Christ,--in a word, not by the law of works, but by the law of faith; not by the letter, but by the spirit; not by the merits of deeds, but by free grace."

Chrysostom: "What then did God do? He made (says Paul) a righteous Person (Christ) to be a sinner, in order that he might make sinners righteous... it is the righteousness of God, when we are justified, not by works...but by grace, where all sin is made to vanish away."

Anselm: "Do you believe that you cannot be saved but by the death of Christ? Go, then, and ...put all your confidence in this death alone. If God shall say to you, "You are a sinner", say to him, "I place the death of our Lord Jesus Christ between me and my sin."

Origen: "Through faith, without the works of the law, the dying thief was justified, because...the Lord inquired not what he had previously wrought, nor yet waited for his performance of some work after he should have believe; but...he took him unto himself for a companion, justified through his confession alone."

Basil: "This is the true and perfect glorying in God, when a man is not lifted up on account of his own righteousness, but has known himself to be wanting in true righteousness and to be justified by faith alone in Christ."

Jerome: "When an ungodly man is converted, God justified him through faith alone, not on account of good works which he possessed not."

Chrysostom: "Again, they said that he who adhered to faith alone was cursed, but he shows that he who adhered to faith alone, is blessed."

Bernard of Clairvaux: "Shall not all our righteousness turn out to be mere unrighteousness and deficiency? What, then, shall it be concerning our sins, when not even our righteousness can answer for itself? Wherefore...let us flee, with all humility to Mercy which alone can save our souls...whoever hungers and thirsts after righteousness, let him believe in thee, who "justified the ungodly"; and thus, being justified by faith alone, he shall have peace with God."
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
"set their minds on the things of the Spirit"

Romans 8:5-8, "For those who live according to the flesh, set their minds on the things of the flesh; but those who live according to the Spirit, set their minds on the things of the Spirit. For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace. Because the carnal mind is enmity against; (bitterly opposed to), Yahweh; for it his not subject to the Law of Yahweh, nor indeed can be. So then, those who are of the flesh cannot please Yahweh."
well of course, if you do not have faith in God, You can ONLY have faith in self. And would be subject to the flesh. If you have faith in God. You focus is not on self. but on others, and you seek the things of the spirit.

Of course, all of us have areas where we struggle, and are carnal (self focused) which is why even as christians, we are not perfect.

Of course Paul also tells us how to be righteous livers, it is not by the law, it is by the spirit.
 
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eternally-gratefull

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eternally-gratefull;1792008 [/B said:
[/COLOR]where does the scripture say it does not exist.....a dead faith is FAITH without works...that is what James says...you are a liar...and distort the word of God...

No, I am not a liar. I just understand what the word "dead" means, You however, are so blinded by your legalism, you can not comprehend that dead is dead..

faith cannot save because it has no work....and you boast you are saved by Faith alone...another of your lies...


Yes it does have work. the work of God. Your to proud to even see this,, :it is the work of God that we believe in the one he sent, those are jesus words, I guess you deny this, you want your own works to count. Good luck handing God those bloody rags.


we are saved by grace through faith....not of works (of the law which is what the Jews believed saves)...where does James say no work whatsoever???? another lie


The book of ephesians was written to a gentile church in ephesus, not a jewish church. Pual never mentions the law once, YOUR ADDING TO THE WORD OF GOD.



you and DC are the ones demanding a list....you reject scripture...Faith without works is dead...in favour of doctrine of man..faith alone saves but the faith that saves is never alone...
Yeah we are demanding a list. You state works are required. This there HAS TO BE A LIST. Because all people do works. But God is not going to let all people in.. You can't go around telling people they have to work. then not tell them how many works they have to do, especially if they can lose salvation for not doing enough.. Which you ALL TEACH.
 

mailmandan

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1) you are trying to change the definitions of words to escape the force of those words.
I didn't change the definition of word "justified." You need to look at the context to determine how it is used. You simply give the word "justified" a broad brushed definition of saved.

In the Strong's Exhaustive Concordance of the Bible, the Greek word for justified "dikaioo" #1344 is:

1. to render righteous or such he ought to be
2. to show, exhibit, evince, one to be righteous, such as he is and wishes himself to be considered
3. to declare, pronounce, one to be just, righteous, or such as he ought to be

God is said to have been justified by those who were baptized by John the Baptist (Luke 7:29). This act pronounced or declared God to be righteous. It did not make him righteous. The basis or ground for the pronouncement was the fact that God IS righteous. Notice that the NIV reads, "acknowledged that God's way was right.." The ESV reads, "they declared God just.." This is the sense in which God was justified, "shown to be righteous." Once again, James is not using the word "justified" to mean "accounted as righteous" but is "shown to be righteous." James is discussing the proof of faith (says-claims to have faith but has no works/I will show you my faith by my works), not the initial act of being accounted as righteous with God (Romans 4:2-3).

Matthew 11:19 "The Son of Man came eating and drinking, and they say, 'Behold, a gluttonous man and a drunkard, a friend of tax-gatherers and sinners!' Yet wisdom is justified/vindicated/shown to be right by her deeds."

In Luke 16:14-15, "Now the Pharisees, who were lovers of money, also heard all these things, and they derided Him. And He said to them, "You are those who justify yourselves before men, but God knows your hearts. For what is highly esteemed among men is an abomination in the sight of God." The Pharisees belief was that their own goodness was what justified them. This is the very definition of "self-righteousness." But, as Jesus explained, their righteousness was flawed, being an external appearance only. That might be enough to justify them before (deceived) men, but not before God, because He knew their hearts.

In Matthew 12:37, "For by your words you will be justified, and by your words you will be condemned." This is because our words reveal the state of our hearts. Words will appear to be evidences for, or against a man's being in a state of grace and righteousness.

Luke 23:39 - Then one of the criminals who were hanged blasphemed Him, saying, "If You are the Christ, save Yourself and us." - by your words you will be condemned/evidence against being in a state of grace and righteousness.

Luke 23:40 - But the other, answering, rebuked him, saying, "Do you not even fear God, seeing you are under the same condemnation? 41 And we indeed justly, for we receive the due reward of our deeds; but this Man has done nothing wrong." 42 Then he said to Jesus, "Lord, remember me when You come into Your kingdom." - by your words you will be justified/evidence for being in a state of grace and righteousness.

2) you are trying to rewrite James 2:24 to read one is justified for some unknown reason then does works
Justified "accounted as righteous" by faith (Genesis 15:6; Romans 4:2-3; 5:1) precedes justified "shown to be righteous" by works (Genesis 22; James 2:21). Works bear out the justification that comes by faith. You are trying to force James 2:24 to teach that we are saved by works, in contradiction to Ephesians 2:8,9. You need to properly harmonize scripture with scripture.

and Rom 6;17,18 to read they were freed from sin for some unknown reason then obeyed from the heart.
They obeyed the gospel from the heart when they believed the gospel (Romans 10:16; 1:16). You self righteously want to read salvation by works into Romans 6:17,18.

Notice in Romans 10:10 - For with the heart one believes unto righteousness..

Notice in Romans 4:5 - But to him who does not work but believes on Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith (not works which precede or follow faith) is accounted for righteousness.

3) you accuse James of being incorrect when James speaks of Abraham's work in offering Isaac,
Not at all. James is using Abraham to describe how he proved the genuineness of his faith by the work that he did many years (Genesis 22) later AFTER he BELIEVED the Lord and his faith, not works, was accounted to him for righteousness (Genesis 15:6; Romans 4:2-3).

James 2:23, then shows Abraham was justified by that work in offering Isaac (verse 24), and not by faith only.
The scripture was fulfilled in vindicating or demonstrating that Abraham believed God and was accounted as righteous. Abraham was accounted as righteous because of his faith (Genesis 15:6) long before he offered up Isaac on the altar and demonstrated the reality of his faith in Genesis 22. Faith only - per James means an empty profession of faith, a dead faith, not genuine faith. If someone says/claims he has faith but has no works to back up their claim (James 2:14) they demonstrate that their claim is bogus. Faith only = bogus claim of faith. You error by teaching "faith only" - per James is actually genuine faith that produces no works, which would be an oxymoron.

James made the works the MEANS of justification and not just the evidence of it.
False! This would mean that when Abraham BELIEVED the Lord in Genesis 15:6 and his faith was accounted to him for righteousness, he was still a lost man UNTIL he offered up his son Isaac on the altar and was then finally saved. Faith is the MEANS of justification (Romans 4:2-6; 5:1) and works bear out the justification that comes by faith. If what you said is true, then Ephesians 2:8,9 would read: For by grace you have been saved through faith AND works. INSTEAD, Paul said - *For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, not of works, lest anyone should boast.
 
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Clement of Rome: "We also, being called through God's will in Christ Jesus, are not justified through ourselves, neither through our own wisdom or understanding, or piety, or works which we have done in holiness or heart, but through faith" (Epistle to Corinthians).

Polycarp: "I know that through grace you are saved, not of works, but by the will of God, through Jesus Christ (Epistle of Philippians).

Athanasius: "Not by these (i.e. human efforts) but by faith, a man is justified as was Abraham."

Ambrose: "Without the works of the law, to an ungodly man, that is to say, a Gentile, believing in Christ, his "faith is imputed for righteousness" as also it was to Abraham."

Augustine: "Grace is give to you, not wages paid to you...it is called grace because it is given gratuitously. By no precedent merits did you buy what you have received. The sinner therefore received this grace first, that his sins should be forgiven him...good works follow after a justified person; they do not go before in order that he may be justified...good works, following after justification, show what a man has received."

Augustine: "Now, having duly considered and weighed all these circumstances and testimonies, we conclude that a man is not justified by the precepts of a holy life, but by faith in Jesus Christ,--in a word, not by the law of works, but by the law of faith; not by the letter, but by the spirit; not by the merits of deeds, but by free grace."

Chrysostom: "What then did God do? He made (says Paul) a righteous Person (Christ) to be a sinner, in order that he might make sinners righteous... it is the righteousness of God, when we are justified, not by works...but by grace, where all sin is made to vanish away."

Anselm: "Do you believe that you cannot be saved but by the death of Christ? Go, then, and ...put all your confidence in this death alone. If God shall say to you, "You are a sinner", say to him, "I place the death of our Lord Jesus Christ between me and my sin."

Origen: "Through faith, without the works of the law, the dying thief was justified, because...the Lord inquired not what he had previously wrought, nor yet waited for his performance of some work after he should have believe; but...he took him unto himself for a companion, justified through his confession alone."

Basil: "This is the true and perfect glorying in God, when a man is not lifted up on account of his own righteousness, but has known himself to be wanting in true righteousness and to be justified by faith alone in Christ."

Jerome: "When an ungodly man is converted, God justified him through faith alone, not on account of good works which he possessed not."

Chrysostom: "Again, they said that he who adhered to faith alone was cursed, but he shows that he who adhered to faith alone, is blessed."

Bernard of Clairvaux: "Shall not all our righteousness turn out to be mere unrighteousness and deficiency? What, then, shall it be concerning our sins, when not even our righteousness can answer for itself? Wherefore...let us flee, with all humility to Mercy which alone can save our souls...whoever hungers and thirsts after righteousness, let him believe in thee, who "justified the ungodly"; and thus, being justified by faith alone, he shall have peace with God."
and yet the scripture says ...faith alone is dead...who do you believe ...James who said it or these guys who give their opinion o what James said???? the scripture says if an angel comes to you with another gospel don't believe it...these are mere mortals not angels and you reject scripture set before your eyes and believe them....if their words do not align with scripture they are liars....

James 2:23-25King James Version (KJV)
[SUP]23 [/SUP]And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God.
[SUP]24 [/SUP]Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.

[SUP]25 [/SUP]Likewise also was not Rahab the harlot justified by works, when she had received the messengers, and had sent them out another way?
 

mailmandan

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and yet the scripture says ...faith alone is dead...who do you believe ...James who said it or these guys who give their opinion o what James said????
I believe James. He said - What use is it, my brethren, if someone says he has faith but he has no works? (given time to produce them - James 2:15-16) Can that faith save him? The answer is no because this is not genuine faith but an empty profession of faith, a dead faith. Genuine faith will be evidenced by producing good works.

the scripture says if an angel comes to you with another gospel don't believe it...these are mere mortals not angels and you reject scripture set before your eyes and believe them....if their words do not align with scripture they are liars....
I don't reject scripture and I don't pervert the gospel by teaching salvation by works, as you do. You misinterpret James 2:14-24 because right out of the starting gate you misunderstand verse 14. SAYS/CLAIMS he has faith. Claims to have faith but has no works to back up that claim = dead faith.

James 2:23-25King James Version (KJV)
[SUP]23 [/SUP]And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God.
The scripture was fulfilled in vindicating or demonstrating that Abraham believed God and was accounted as righteous based on his faith and not his works (Romans 4:2-3). Abraham was accounted as righteous based on his faith and not his works (Genesis 15:6) long before he offered up Isaac on the altar and demonstrated the reality of his faith in Genesis 22.

[SUP]24 [/SUP]Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.
In James 2:21, notice closely that James does not say that Abraham's work of offering up Isaac resulted in God's accounting Abraham as righteous. No! The accounting of Abraham's faith as righteousness was made in Genesis 15:6, many years before his work of offering up Isaac recorded in Genesis 22. The work of Abraham did not have some kind of intrinsic merit to save his soul, but it proved or manifested the genuineness of his faith. This is the sense in which Abraham was justified by works. Not accounted as righteous, but shown to be righteous. Faith only - per James = empty profession of faith/dead faith and not genuine faith that does not produce works, which is an oxymoron.

[SUP]25 [/SUP]Likewise also was not Rahab the harlot justified by works, when she had received the messengers, and had sent them out another way?
Rahab believed in the Lord with genuine faith (Joshua 2:9-13), requested "kindness" (2:12), received the promise of kindness (2:14), and hung out the "scarlet line" (2:21), as the demonstration of her genuine faith. She proved her faith in God was not a dead faith by her works, just as all genuine believers prove theirs. Man is saved through faith and not by works; yet genuine faith is evidenced "shown to be genuine" by good works.
 

Jabberjaw

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Mar 21, 2014
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I believe James. He said - What use is it, my brethren, if someone says he has faith but he has no works? (given time to produce them - James 2:15-16) Can that faith save him? The answer is no because this is not genuine faith but an empty profession of faith, a dead faith. Genuine faith will be evidenced by producing good works.
Right, faith alone will not save you
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
Right, faith alone will not save you

there is no such thing as faith alone, it is dead, non existant, lifeless, meaningless, will not save you, will not empower you to obey what God wants you to do, will not do anything but live like it did before it CLAIMED to have faith.
 

Jabberjaw

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Mar 21, 2014
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there is no such thing as faith alone, it is dead, non existant, lifeless, meaningless, will not save you, will not empower you to obey what God wants you to do, will not do anything but live like it did before it CLAIMED to have faith.
so if there is no such thing as faith alone, then the faith only crowd teach a false man made doctrine.
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
so if there is no such thing as faith alone, then the faith only crowd teach a false man made doctrine.

How can they? Because faith produces works, so the faith only crowd KNOWS that one who has TRUE FAITH will do works.

it is not a question of IF they will do works, FAITH does work, if it does not, it is dead, (which is no faith at all) and will do nothing
 
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there is no such thing as faith alone, it is dead, non existant, lifeless, meaningless, will not save you, will not empower you to obey what God wants you to do, will not do anything but live like it did before it CLAIMED to have faith.
you continue to post your own opinion which most of the times amount to lies....it is either James is lying or you are lying....
James says there is....which makes you a liar..... [SUP]
17 [/SUP]Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
you continue to post your own opinion which most of the times amount to lies....it is either James is lying or you are lying....
James says there is....which makes you a liar..... [SUP]
17[/SUP]Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.
James aint lying.

[SUP]14 [/SUP]What does it profit, my brethren, if someone says he has faith but does not have works? Can faith save him?

He never said they had faith alone, he said they CLAIMED to have faith.

you keep ignoring this part.
 
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I believe James. He said - What use is it, my brethren, if someone says he has faith but he has no works? (given time to produce them - James 2:15-16) Can that faith save him? The answer is no because this is not genuine faith but an empty profession of faith, a dead faith. Genuine faith will be evidenced by producing good works.
you are adding to the word bro...they had no intent to give...they said be warmed and filled....and you do not believe James else we would not be having this discussion...it is faith with works .....not faith producing works...


I don't reject scripture and I don't pervert the gospel by teaching salvation by works, as you do. You misinterpret James 2:14-24 because right out of the starting gate you misunderstand verse 14. SAYS/CLAIMS he has faith. Claims to have faith but has no works to back up that claim = dead faith.
faith comes by hearing bro...he says he has faith but he has no works....that is called faith without works.....you are saying he had no faith ...if he had no faith then no work is required....


The scripture was fulfilled in vindicating or demonstrating that Abraham believed God and was accounted as righteous based on his faith and not his works (Romans 4:2-3). Abraham was accounted as righteous based on his faith and not his works (Genesis 15:6) long before he offered up Isaac on the altar and demonstrated the reality of his faith in Genesis 22.
then you do not believe scripture...
[SUP]
21 [/SUP]Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar?

[SUP]22 [/SUP]Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect?
[SUP]23 [/SUP]And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God.
[SUP]24 [/SUP]Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.


In James 2:21, notice closely that James does not say that Abraham's work of offering up Isaac resulted in God's accounting Abraham as righteous. No! The accounting of Abraham's faith as righteousness was made in Genesis 15:6, many years before his work of offering up Isaac recorded in Genesis 22. The work of Abraham did not have some kind of intrinsic merit to save his soul, but it proved or manifested the genuineness of his faith. This is the sense in which Abraham was justified by works. Not accounted as righteous, but shown to be righteous. Faith only - per James = empty profession of faith/dead faith and not genuine faith that does not produce works, which is an oxymoron.
you just babbled....stick with what scripture says and keep your opinion for yourself...


Rahab believed in the Lord with genuine faith (Joshua 2:9-13), requested "kindness" (2:12), received the promise of kindness (2:14), and hung out the "scarlet line" (2:21), as the demonstration of her genuine faith. She proved her faith in God was not a dead faith by her works, just as all genuine believers prove theirs. Man is saved through faith and not by works; yet genuine faith is evidenced "shown to be genuine" by good works.
man is saved by grace through faith ....faith without works is dead....show me how you got saved with a dead faith....
 
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then you are..
[SUP]14 [/SUP]What does it profit, my brethren, if someone says he has faith but does not have works? Can faith save him?

He never said they had faith alone, he said they CLAIMED to have faith.

you keep ignoring this part.
ignoring what???...say /claim...whatever..fact is he had no works which made his faith dead..

that is what he is saying all through the passage....
faith without works.... is faith alone...dead
17Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.
 

Jackson123

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Feb 6, 2014
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and yet the scripture says ...faith alone is dead...who do you believe ...James who said it or these guys who give their opinion o what James said???? the scripture says if an angel comes to you with another gospel don't believe it...these are mere mortals not angels and you reject scripture set before your eyes and believe them....if their words do not align with scripture they are liars....

James 2:23-25King James Version (KJV)
[SUP]23 [/SUP]And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God.
[SUP]24 [/SUP]Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.

[SUP]25 [/SUP]Likewise also was not Rahab the harlot justified by works, when she had received the messengers, and had sent them out another way?
Jesus said
Luke 6:43
For a good tree bringeth not forth corrupt fruit; neither doth a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.

Do you believe James not agree with Jesus by say there is faith in Jesus but not produce good fruit?

Do you believe James accused Jesus as a liar? Or you have to agree that James just quip/satirized.

You can choose both.

Please choose one.

A. Jesus is a liar by say Good tree must bear good fruit/ real faith must bear good work, while James said there is real faith not produce good fruit

B. James is liar because he said real faith may not produce work, and it is not what Jesus said good tree/real faith must bear agood work.