Paul And James in Total, Complete Agreement On Works
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after my conversion, and a few days of........
I understood that Jesus loved me, truly
and so I only want to please Him with all of
my heart, soul, and mind.
I know that I have been saved by Grace
and created for 'good-works', because my
Father has told me so.
I understood that Jesus loved me, truly
and so I only want to please Him with all of
my heart, soul, and mind.
I know that I have been saved by Grace
and created for 'good-works', because my
Father has told me so.
E
King david was, Abraham was, Paul was. I guess they will go to hell?
are you denying he is talking about people who SAY THEY HAVE FAITH but has no works.?
yes he could, because he was talking about those who SAY THEY HAVE FAITH. not real faith, it was a claimed faith, it was not real at all, it was DEAD because it was no existent.
[SUP]14 [/SUP]What does it profit, my brethren, if someone says he has faith but does not have works? Can faith save him?
That my friend, makes you a liar!
Let me repeat what is I believe.
What is definition of obey
[h=2]obey[/h] verb \ō-ˈbā, ə-\: to do what someone tells you to do or what a rule, law, etc., says you must do
What is the greatest/ the most Jesus want us to do?
[h=1]Matthew 22:36-40New International Version (NIV)[/h]36 “Teacher, which is the greatest commandment in the Law?”
37 Jesus replied: “‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.’[a]38 This is the first and greatest commandment. 39 And the second is like it: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’[b]40 All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments.”
[h=4]Obey to Jesus mean doing what Jesus want. Say we can't 100 percent obey Him, than do his first priority/love. Not boasting about baptism etc. Love is the greatest.[/h]
The very people that teach about obey is not obey the very thing Jesus want. Can you trust what they teach?
[h=1]Emanuela Orlandi 'was kidnapped for sex parties for Vatican police'[/h][h=2]A teenage girl whose disappearance in Rome has remained a mystery for 30 years was kidnapped for sex parties by a gang involving Vatican police and foreign diplomats, the Roman Catholic Church's leading exorcist has claimed.[/h]
Emanuela Orlandi, who was 15 at the time of her disappearance, was the daughter of a Vatican employee Photo: Rex
By Nick Squires, Rome
8:11PM BST 22 May 2012
Father Gabriele Amorth, who was appointed by the late John Paul II as the Vatican's chief exorcist and claims to have performed thousands of exorcisms, said Emanuela Orlandi was later murdered and her body disposed of.
In the latest twist in one of the Holy See's most enduring mysteries, he said the 15-year-old schoolgirl was snatched from the streets of central Rome in the summer of 1983 and forced to take part in sex parties.
"This was a crime with a sexual motive. Parties were organised, with a Vatican gendarme acting as the 'recruiter' of the girls.
"The network involved diplomatic personnel from a foreign embassy to the Holy See. I believe Emanuela ended up a victim of this circle," Father Amorth, the honorary president of the International Association of Exorcists, told La Stampa newspaper.
The debate over who kidnapped Emanuela and what became of her has raged in Italy for three decades.
[h=2]Related Articles[/h]
It has been suggested that she was taken by the leader of a notorious gang of criminals, who wanted to put pressure on Vatican officials to recover money that he had allegedly lent them.
Another theory is that she was abducted to be used as a bargaining chip for the release from prison of Mehmet Ali Agca, the Turkish gunman who tried to kill John Paul II in St Peter's Square in 1981, reportedly on the orders of the KGB.
But Father Amorth, 85, dismissed the "international dimension", saying that a Vatican archivist had also come to the conclusion that Emanuela was abducted for sexual exploitation.
A controversial and outspoken priest, Father Amorth has claimed that yoga is Satanic because it leads to a worship of Hinduism and that the Harry Potter books are dangerous because they encourage children to believe in black magic and wizardry.
Earlier this month investigators opened the tomb of Enrico "Renatino" De Pedis, the gang leader, in order to check long-standing claims that the remains of the teenager were buried alongside him.
They found his remains inside the tomb in the Sant' Apollinare basilica in Rome and also, intriguingly, other bones in a crypt nearby.
Investigators said the unidentified bones probably dated from the early 19th century, but they are being analysed by forensic experts to see if any of them might belong to Emanuela.
In 2005, an anonymous caller to a crime programme on Italian TV claimed that the key to the schoolgirl's kidnap lay in the tomb of the mobster, who was gunned down by rival gangsters in 1990.
What is definition of obey
[h=2]obey[/h] verb \ō-ˈbā, ə-\: to do what someone tells you to do or what a rule, law, etc., says you must do
What is the greatest/ the most Jesus want us to do?
[h=1]Matthew 22:36-40New International Version (NIV)[/h]36 “Teacher, which is the greatest commandment in the Law?”
37 Jesus replied: “‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.’[a]38 This is the first and greatest commandment. 39 And the second is like it: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’[b]40 All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments.”
[h=4]Obey to Jesus mean doing what Jesus want. Say we can't 100 percent obey Him, than do his first priority/love. Not boasting about baptism etc. Love is the greatest.[/h]
The very people that teach about obey is not obey the very thing Jesus want. Can you trust what they teach?
[h=1]Emanuela Orlandi 'was kidnapped for sex parties for Vatican police'[/h][h=2]A teenage girl whose disappearance in Rome has remained a mystery for 30 years was kidnapped for sex parties by a gang involving Vatican police and foreign diplomats, the Roman Catholic Church's leading exorcist has claimed.[/h]
By Nick Squires, Rome
8:11PM BST 22 May 2012
Father Gabriele Amorth, who was appointed by the late John Paul II as the Vatican's chief exorcist and claims to have performed thousands of exorcisms, said Emanuela Orlandi was later murdered and her body disposed of.
In the latest twist in one of the Holy See's most enduring mysteries, he said the 15-year-old schoolgirl was snatched from the streets of central Rome in the summer of 1983 and forced to take part in sex parties.
"This was a crime with a sexual motive. Parties were organised, with a Vatican gendarme acting as the 'recruiter' of the girls.
"The network involved diplomatic personnel from a foreign embassy to the Holy See. I believe Emanuela ended up a victim of this circle," Father Amorth, the honorary president of the International Association of Exorcists, told La Stampa newspaper.
The debate over who kidnapped Emanuela and what became of her has raged in Italy for three decades.
[h=2]Related Articles[/h]
- Will bones from tomb solve Vatican scandal?
14 May 2012 - Vatican says it has 'no secrets' in case of missing teenager
15 Apr 2012 - Pope Benedict XVI to cut back on foreign trips
08 Apr 2012 - Vatican accused of cover-up over teenage girl's mysterious disappearance
03 Apr 2012 - What is the Vatican’s sinister secret behind teenager Emanuela Orlandi’s 1983 disappearance?
19 May 2012
It has been suggested that she was taken by the leader of a notorious gang of criminals, who wanted to put pressure on Vatican officials to recover money that he had allegedly lent them.
Another theory is that she was abducted to be used as a bargaining chip for the release from prison of Mehmet Ali Agca, the Turkish gunman who tried to kill John Paul II in St Peter's Square in 1981, reportedly on the orders of the KGB.
But Father Amorth, 85, dismissed the "international dimension", saying that a Vatican archivist had also come to the conclusion that Emanuela was abducted for sexual exploitation.
A controversial and outspoken priest, Father Amorth has claimed that yoga is Satanic because it leads to a worship of Hinduism and that the Harry Potter books are dangerous because they encourage children to believe in black magic and wizardry.
Earlier this month investigators opened the tomb of Enrico "Renatino" De Pedis, the gang leader, in order to check long-standing claims that the remains of the teenager were buried alongside him.
They found his remains inside the tomb in the Sant' Apollinare basilica in Rome and also, intriguingly, other bones in a crypt nearby.
Investigators said the unidentified bones probably dated from the early 19th century, but they are being analysed by forensic experts to see if any of them might belong to Emanuela.
In 2005, an anonymous caller to a crime programme on Italian TV claimed that the key to the schoolgirl's kidnap lay in the tomb of the mobster, who was gunned down by rival gangsters in 1990.
I agree and will add.....At the end of the day we can brag on these things and lift ourselves up and say look, look what I have done and do....
Only one I will brag on and that Is JESUS as all glory, worship and praise goes to God the Father and his only begotten Son JESUS.....the best we can do in the flesh does not even make the boot scrapings left over on the edge of the porch...ANY GOOD WORK that comes from ANY MAN is JESUS doing the WORK dia the HOLY SPIRIT through them.....ALL GLORY to GOD! and in my view I am the number one chief sinner among men...Paul said he was, but I think I cornered the market on it in my life.......! The more time you actually spend with Jesus and the less time you spend boasting about self (Satanism) the more vile you will see yourself in the flesh!
Only one I will brag on and that Is JESUS as all glory, worship and praise goes to God the Father and his only begotten Son JESUS.....the best we can do in the flesh does not even make the boot scrapings left over on the edge of the porch...ANY GOOD WORK that comes from ANY MAN is JESUS doing the WORK dia the HOLY SPIRIT through them.....ALL GLORY to GOD! and in my view I am the number one chief sinner among men...Paul said he was, but I think I cornered the market on it in my life.......! The more time you actually spend with Jesus and the less time you spend boasting about self (Satanism) the more vile you will see yourself in the flesh!
You add words to what I posted. I did not say one believes repents confesses, is baptized then is free to live as he wishes.
But I said one believes, repents confess, is baptized to become saved and then must do good works, (Eph 2:10) remain faithful unto death (Rev 2:10) to remain saved.
But I said one believes, repents confess, is baptized to become saved and then must do good works, (Eph 2:10) remain faithful unto death (Rev 2:10) to remain saved.
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For to set the mind on the flesh is death, but to set the mind on the Spirit is life and peace. For the mind that is set on the flesh is hostile to God, for it does not submit to God’s law; indeed, it cannot. Those who are in the flesh cannot please God.
(Romans 8:6-8)
how to please God??
You, however, are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if in fact the Spirit of God dwells in you. Anyone who does not have the Spirit of Christ does not belong to him. But if Christ is in you, although the body is dead because of sin, the Spirit is life because of righteousness.
(Romans 8:9-10)
i must first be transformed by Him through His gift of the Holy Spirit
unless He first justifies me and sanctifies me, i cannot perform the service of a priest.
through grace we are justified before God, in order to obediently do those things prepared for us by Him, which justify us before men.
(Romans 8:6-8)
how to please God??
You, however, are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if in fact the Spirit of God dwells in you. Anyone who does not have the Spirit of Christ does not belong to him. But if Christ is in you, although the body is dead because of sin, the Spirit is life because of righteousness.
(Romans 8:9-10)
i must first be transformed by Him through His gift of the Holy Spirit
unless He first justifies me and sanctifies me, i cannot perform the service of a priest.
through grace we are justified before God, in order to obediently do those things prepared for us by Him, which justify us before men.
YOU choose to set your own mind on the flesh or on the spirit. The Holy Spirit, God does not force you to set your mind on one or the other. So which ever YOU CHOOSE set your mind to is what you will do.
God sanctifies. But WHO and WHY does God sanctify? God sanctifies those that obey Him, those that obediently work GOD'S righteousness are the one's accepted with God, Acts 10:35. Those that continue to NOT work righteousness continue to NOT be of God, 1 Jn 3:10.
Therefore both Paul and James show that obedient works leads to justification/free from sin.
the ones that God sanctifies, those ones obey Him.
And I said, ‘Who are you, Lord?’
And the Lord said, ‘I am Jesus whom you are persecuting.
But rise and stand upon your feet, for I have appeared to you for this purpose, to appoint you as a servant and witness to the things in which you have seen me and to those in which I will appear to you, delivering you from your people and from the Gentiles—to whom I am sending you to open their eyes, so that they may turn from darkness to light and from the power of Satan to God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins and a place among those who are sanctified by faith in me.’
(Acts 26:15-18)
how much 'choice' did Paul have?
when Paul acted of his own free will, he persecuted, imprisoned and put to death the believers.
when Paul gave up his free will - and became the servant of our Good Master - he began to do the works prepared for Him beforehand.
was Paul sanctified before he began to do this holy work? or only after, at the end of his ministry?
the temple articles were sanctified before they could be put to any use. are we, being built into His temple, different than that shadow of the things to come?
And I said, ‘Who are you, Lord?’
And the Lord said, ‘I am Jesus whom you are persecuting.
But rise and stand upon your feet, for I have appeared to you for this purpose, to appoint you as a servant and witness to the things in which you have seen me and to those in which I will appear to you, delivering you from your people and from the Gentiles—to whom I am sending you to open their eyes, so that they may turn from darkness to light and from the power of Satan to God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins and a place among those who are sanctified by faith in me.’
(Acts 26:15-18)
how much 'choice' did Paul have?
when Paul acted of his own free will, he persecuted, imprisoned and put to death the believers.
when Paul gave up his free will - and became the servant of our Good Master - he began to do the works prepared for Him beforehand.
was Paul sanctified before he began to do this holy work? or only after, at the end of his ministry?
the temple articles were sanctified before they could be put to any use. are we, being built into His temple, different than that shadow of the things to come?
right, Christ alone can save you
Matthew 28:20 (NKJV) teaching them to observe all things that I have commanded you; and lo, I am with you always, even to the end of the age." Amen.
and many of these commands are:
Hear the Gospel
John. 20:30-31; Rom. 10:17
Believe
Rom. 1:16; Acts 18:8; Heb. 11:6
Repent
Lk. 13:3; 24:47; Acts 3:19; 17:30
Confess Faith in Christ
Rom. 10:9-10; Acts 8:37
Be Baptized
Mat. 28:19; Mk. 16:16; Acts 2:38; 10:47-48;
22:16; Rom. 6:1-6; Gal. 3:27; Col. 2:12;
1Pet. 3:21
Be Faithful Unto and Until Death
Mat. 25:21, 34; 2Pet. 1:1-11; Rev. 2:10;
1Jno. 1:6-9
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Justified as used by James means one is freed from sin and Paul said in Rom 6:18.
James--works>>>>>>>>>>>>>justify
Paul----obey from the heart>>>>>free from sin
Lk 7:29 "And all the people that heard him, and the publicans, justified God, being baptized with the baptism of John."
God does not have to do obedient works to be freed fro sin as James and Paul said.
The publicans by being baptized as God commanded justified God, that is, showed that God is right and is to be obeyed. James and Paul are talking about MAN being justified before God, not God before man.
In Mat 11:19 you post "Yet wisdom is justified/vindicated/shown to be right by her deeds"
Likewise man is justified/vindicated/shown to be right by HIS DEEDS.
James---works>>>>>>>>>>>justify.
Man cannot be justified/vindicated by doing nothing or doing UNrighteousness.
James 2:24 did James put works before or after justified?
did James say BY WORKS (the means) a man is justified
or
a man is justified (for some reason) then does works?
1) James quotes Gen 15:6 in James 2:23 and James connected works with Abrahams' belief, James 2:21,22.
2) Gen 15:6 does not say Abraham believed only. The word only is not in the verse.
3) Gen chapters 12 and 13, Abraham already had an obedient faith prior to Gen 15:6
4) nothing in the contexts indicates that Abraham was a lost reprobate prior to Gen 15:6 and then saved by belief only in Gen 15:6.
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A contradiction takes place when one takes Rom 4:4 out of context and claims "worketh not" excludes ALL works.
Yet plainly in Rom 6:16,17 Paul put obedience BEFORE freed from sin.
A contradiction takes place when one takes Eph 2:9 and claims "not of works" excludes ALL works when the very next verse Eph 2:10 makes works a necessary, essential part of being a Christian. How can all works be excluded when one cannot even be a Christian WITHOUT works?
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after my conversion, and a few days of........
I understood that Jesus loved me, truly
and so I only want to please Him with all of
my heart, soul, and mind.
I know that I have been saved by Grace
and created for 'good-works', because my
Father has told me so.
I understood that Jesus loved me, truly
and so I only want to please Him with all of
my heart, soul, and mind.
I know that I have been saved by Grace
and created for 'good-works', because my
Father has told me so.
MUST a Christian do good works (Eph 2:10) or if not will that Christian be lost for lack of good works?