When does the rapture occur?

Straightshot · Dec 8, 2014

"Lots of people have strong opinions on these topics, and display their foolish pride before all men.
I've been guilty of doing it many times myself."

The crux of the matter is that the Lord has revealed much for a reason .... and there are some who go after these things and actually get it .... and there are some that meddle

But for one to say .... it does not really matter, just sit back and tread water .... is not the way of the prophets and the apostles

If they did not fight the good fight against evil and to spread the Lord's truth? .... what do you think?

Saying one cannot know, when the Lord says that His direct intent is to lead His true ecclesia into all truth is a disconnected idea

There is no excuse for laxity, and certainly not because men have subverted His Word on the matter

The Christian witness is a command made ..... and if one is not capable for the task, then get there

... it is possible even among much clutter and resistance .... this is to be expected

PlainWord · Dec 8, 2014

john832 said:

There are 7 trumpets in that series. Nothing says the 7th is the very last in world history. There is only one passage in the entire bible that refers to the "last" trumpet or trump and that's the 1 Cor 15 passage. Notice there that there is no mention of Christ or of angels or anyone returning or even any gathering.

popeye · Dec 8, 2014

PlainWord said:

Nope,I even addressed them and showed you. But if you think you are right,that is fine with me

popeye · Dec 8, 2014

GaryA said:

It says "heaven".....the saints are there DURING the gt. That is where it says they are gathered from.
No dead raised.....no gathering from earth.....no postrib rapture.

popeye · Dec 8, 2014

PlainWord said:

You left out "end of the world"...as in AFTER THE MILLIUM.... LOF....(over 1000 years after the rapture).
Dude,you are way,way off

There is ZERO "wicked gathered first",NONE,NADA. Does not exist.
The tares are CUT WITH the wheat ...HARVESTED TOGETHER....THEN the tares are trown into the LOF.(you have a non issue that you are trying to breath life into)
Show me a vintage or modern picture of a field harvested where the weeds are harvested first.(does not happen,the whole thing is cut once)

Here lies the root of why you mishandle end times..(not being ugly,but you are way out there my friend)
The GT is Jacob's trouble. (Israel's trouble) You COMPLETELY miss the purpose. (hint,times of gentiles ended)
Factor in the things you are omitting. You can never get the picture w/o the puzzle pieces.

popeye · Dec 8, 2014

Richie_2uk said:

Not me,I am just giving my $.02
It is the subject matter.
Most would be disheartened if we were prohibited from expressing our views. It is a forum. We all got something to crow about.

Peace

popeye · Dec 8, 2014

JesusIsAll said:

Why I Believe in a Pre-Tribulation Rapture <-- click here

Jeremiah 30:7 Alas! for that day is great, so that none is like it: it is even the time of Jacob's trouble [seven year tribulation period]...

John 14:1-3 Let not your heart be troubled: ye believe in God, believe also in me. In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you. And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.

Colossians 3:4 When Christ, who is our life, shall appear, then shall ye also appear with him in glory.

1 Thessalonians 5:9-10 For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ, who died for us, that, whether we wake or sleep, we should live together with him.

1 Thessalonians 1:8-10 For from you sounded out the word of the Lord not only in Macedonia and Achaia, but also in every place your faith to God-ward is spread abroad; so that we need not to speak any thing. For they themselves shew of us what manner of entering in we had unto you, and how ye turned to God from idols to serve the living and true God; and to wait for his Son from heaven, whom he raised from the dead, even Jesus, which delivered us from the wrath to come.

Romans 5:8-9 But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us. Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him.

Ephesians 5:6 Let no man deceive you with vain words: for because of these things cometh the wrath of God upon the children of disobedience.

1 Corinthians 15:51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality. So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory. O death, where is thy sting? O grave, where is thy victory? The sting of death is sin; and the strength of sin is the law. But thanks be to God, which giveth us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ. Therefore, my beloved brethren, be ye stedfast, unmovable, always abounding in the work of the Lord, forasmuch as ye know that your labour is not in vain in the Lord.

1 Thessalonians 4:14-18 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him. For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep. For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord. Wherefore comfort one another with these words.

Interesting of Geneva Bible: 2 Thessalonians 2:3-8 Let no man deceive you by any means, for that day shall not come, except there come a departing first, and that the man of sin be disclosed, even the son of perdition, which is an adversary, and exalteth himself against all that is called God, or that is worshipped, so that he doeth sit as God in the Temple of God, shewing himself that he is God. Remember ye not, that when I was yet with you, I told you these things? And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time. For the mystery of iniquity doeth already work; only he which now withholdeth, shall let till he be taken out of the way. And then shall that wicked man be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the Spirit of his mouth, and shall abolish with the brightness of his coming.

Revelation 3:10 Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth.

Revelation 4:1 After this I looked, and, behold, a door was opened in heaven: and the first voice which I heard was as it were of a trumpet talking with me; which said, Come up hither, and I will shew thee things which must be hereafter.

Revelation 5:9-10 And they sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation; and hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth. [no tribulation seal yet opened]

Jude 1:14-15 And Enoch also, the seventh from Adam, prophesied of these, saying, Behold, the Lord cometh with ten thousands of his saints, to execute judgment upon all, and to convince all that are ungodly among them of all their ungodly deeds which they have ungodly committed, and of all their hard speeches which ungodly sinners have spoken against him. (Revelation 19:11-14)

Genesis 7:13 In the selfsame day entered Noah, and Shem, and Ham, and Japheth, the sons of Noah, and Noah's wife, and the three wives of his sons with them, into the ark.

Genesis 18:32 And he said, Oh let not the Lord be angry, and I will speak yet but this once: Peradventure ten shall be found there. And he said, I will not destroy it for ten's sake.

Psalms 27:4-5 One thing have I desired of the LORD, that will I seek after; that I may dwell in the house of the LORD all the days of my life, to behold the beauty of the LORD, and to enquire in his temple. For in the time of trouble he shall hide me in his pavilion: in the secret of his tabernacle shall he hide me; he shall set me up upon a rock.

Isaiah 26:19-21 Thy dead men shall live, together with my dead body shall they arise. Awake and sing, ye that dwell in dust: for thy dew is as the dew of herbs, and the earth shall cast out the dead. Come, my people, enter thou into thy chambers [wedding chambers], and shut thy doors about thee: hide thyself as it were for a little moment, until the indignation be overpast. For, behold, the LORD cometh out of his place to punish the inhabitants of the earth for their iniquity: the earth also shall disclose her blood, and shall no more cover her slain.

1 Thessalonians 5:1-6 But of the times and the seasons, brethren, ye have no need that I write unto you. For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night. For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape. But ye, brethren, are not in darkness, that that day should overtake you as a thief. Ye are all the children of light, and the children of the day: we are not of the night, nor of darkness. Therefore let us not sleep, as do others; but let us watch and be sober.

Matthew 24:37 But as the days of Noe were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be. For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark, and knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be. Then shall two be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left. Two women shall be grinding at the mill; the one shall be taken, and the other left. Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come. But know this, that if the goodman of the house had known in what watch the thief would come, he would have watched, and would not have suffered his house to be broken up. Therefore be ye also ready: for in such an hour as ye think not the Son of man cometh.

Titus 2:13 Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ; Who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, and purify unto himself a peculiar people, zealous of good works. These things speak, and exhort, and rebuke with all authority. Let no man despise thee.

Dr. Ed Hindson,

"I am not looking for the Antichrist, I’m looking for Jesus Christ. I am not even looking for the undertaker, I am looking for the uppertaker."

Good post.
#8 of the article is something you will never see a postrib initiate. They do not teach the heart of heaven....sad indeed

Straightshot · Dec 9, 2014

It is a good post

And even the proof of the pre-tribulation ecclesia dwelling in heaven just before and during the tribulation period of the Lord's judgment on the earth is given as Revelation unfolds as the narrative switches back and forth from heaven to the earth

There is something very wrong with the post-tribulation theology and very evident .... many have come claiming Christianity and are deceiving many for some reason

Anonimous · Dec 9, 2014

Peter said, "Knowing all these things...how ought we to live?"

God's got a good handle on the future. Our greater concern should be how to live for Him NOW and let Him take care of what we have no control over...namely, the future. When He is ready, He'll make it known... then we'll ALL know for sure.

PlainWord · Dec 9, 2014

john832 said:

Yes, and none of the verses "JesusIsAll" put together locate any return of Christ before the Tribulation, nor do they tell us anyone is snatched off the planet and taken to heaven. There is no concept of a Tribulation Saint or great revival following a "rapture" for Satan to persecute.

Instead there are verses about Christs' second coming and verses about God's return following the millennium when the living actually get changed.

PlainWord · Dec 9, 2014

Straightshot said:

Luke 18:

7 And shall God not avenge His own elect who cry out day and night to Him, though He bears long with them? 8 I tell you that He will avenge them speedily. Nevertheless, when the Son of Man comes, will He really find faith on the earth?"

Please explain the above if there is a pre-trib rapture. Why does the Son of Man not really find faith on the earth when He returns?

PlainWord · Dec 9, 2014

30 Let both grow together until the harvest, and at the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, "First gather together the tares and bind them in bundles to burn them, but gather the wheat into my barn." ' "

I guess you were there and heard a different story?

29 But he said, 'No, lest while you gather up the tares you also uproot the wheat with them.

You say they are cut together, Christ says the opposite in the above. But what does Christ know, He is only the Son of the Living God? Popeye has spoken.

PlainWord · Dec 9, 2014

3 Now as He sat on the Mount of Olives, the disciples came to Him privately, saying, "Tell us, when will these things be? And what will be the sign of Your coming, and of the end of the age?"

I guess the Rapture return wasn't a sign of His Second Coming. It wasn't important enough for Christ to even mention in passing. He never breathes a word about an earlier Rapture return anywhere.

23 But take heed; see, I have told you all things beforehand.

Apparently Jesus didn't tell us all things because He left out the lesson about His earlier sky-only rapture return gathering-and-whisking-back-off to heaven. He must have forgotten about it. But that's okay, Darby corrected him and put the Rapture in there using Return of God passages and LAST DAY resurrection passages so now the story is complete.

Straightshot · Dec 9, 2014

"Please explain the above if there is a pre-trib rapture. Why does the Son of Man not really find faith on the earth when He returns?"

I should let you go PW ..... but the answer to your question is a simple one

When the Lord immortalizes His Ecclesia ..... there will not be much "faith" upon the earth .... look around

Not "none", but scant

.... one of the very reasons why His is going to change the game [Romans 11:25]

At a time that you do not know .... might be before this day is over

I know that you think your riddle is a clever one

One needs to be ready .... if you an get it?

On the other hand

If you find yourself in the tribulation, where you must want to go .... you will know without a doubt in your mind where you are .... and what you have missed out on

And you will be able to count the days to the Lord's appearing on the earth for all to see .... including you, if you make it through .... if you do you will know the dating of His appearing

But you will have to repent [Revelation 3:15-19]

However, He is coming at a time that you cannot know .... to "snatch" you away

..... but it appears to me that you would rather pass

Jackson123 · Dec 9, 2014

PlainWord said:

So which trump is this bellow?
1Thes 4:16
16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:

GaryA · Dec 9, 2014

popeye said:

So -- is this the last trumpet ( Matthew 24:31 ) -- or, is the last trumpet of 1 Corinthians 15:52 not really the last trumpet?

( After all -- if you believe the trumpet of 1 Corinthians 15:52 is pre-trib -- and you believe the trumpet of Matthew 24:31 is post-trib -- why is there a trumpet after the last trumpet? )

GaryA · Dec 9, 2014

I refer you again to post #970 and post #979 in this thread...

( And to the 'Order of Events' link in my signature. )

popeye · Dec 10, 2014

GaryA said:

52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.

No dead raised in mat 24;31
And btw,the greek reads .......from the 4 winds,from the ends of the heavens to the ends of them.
Angels gather,not Jesus,in mat24.No mention of dead.No gathering from earth.
Can not be the same event.
You omit the heart of the matter and make "trumpets" the pivotal base for interpretation.
Rev 1;10 I was in the Spirit on the Lord's day, and heard behind me a great voice, as of a trumpet,
"....a voice great as a trumpet,saying,....." (literal greek)

Which trump is this?? The first?? The 100th?

popeye · Dec 10, 2014

GaryA said:

All you guys see is "AFTER"
You see nothing else.

Please try and reread for the word "heaven" Mat 24;31
They are gathered from "heaven"
This proves you inadvertantly promote the pretrib rapture every time you reference that verse.
You are oblivious to it. Bizzare indeed

popeye · Dec 10, 2014

duplicate......ooopps

When does the rapture occur?

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