QUESTION! (about Christmas and Easter)
- Thread starter T_Laurich
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I don't believe any part, but many people are saying that it does not apply anymore... I am asking them why this is...
How about passing your children through the fire? If the meaning behind it is to honor God, then God is pleased?
God went to lengths to cloak the exact day of Christ's birth. His Feast days are known exactly. This should tell us something.
Ok, what happens on (some) pagan holidays? Ritual blood sacrifices, all manner of evil, etc. Let's use halloween for example. Satanists do ritual blood sacrifices on halloween, and dedicate it to Satan. This is jmo, but I think HOW you celebrate a pagan holiday is what matters. Obviously if you kill a person to do a satanic sacrifice, then that's evil. But if you do something honorable such as revering Jesus on Christmas, then that's good. Jesus looks at our hearts, T_.. if we celebrate a holiday (even a pagan one) with goodhearted intentions, that's what he looks at. The nature of our heart when we celebrate.. but again this is jmo..
E
eternally-gratefull
Guest
Dude, your not open to anything.
1 Duet 12 is not the law. so that was a feeble attempt.
2. If you are going to refuse to answer questions, yet demans yours get answered. there is no discussion.
so I guess you are not open to discussion.
To me Christmas holds no particular religious significance. It is just a day that many chose to honor the birth of Christ. No, Christmas has no biblical support nor are we instructed to celebrate such a day. The context of this passage in Romans is the observance of feast days. The observance of such days among the Jewish Christians was often looked down upon by the Gentile Christians. Paul laid down a principle of unity that allows us the freedom to honor the Lord on any day we may choose. If a man chooses to honor Dec 25 as a day holy to the lord, no matter how other cultures may regard this day or in what practices they may choose to engage, or what pagan history is linked to that day, as long as that day is consecrated to the Lord for HIS good pleasure, that is between that individual and the Lord and it is none of my business. I have no right to judge my brother in this matter.
And again, Rom 14 misapplied...
Rom 14:1 Him that is weak in the faith receive ye, but not to doubtful disputations.
The first thing we see here is that this chapter is about relating to a weak brother.
Rom 14:2 For one believeth that he may eat all things: another, who is weak, eateth herbs.
The subject here? Vegetarianism
Rom 14:3 Let not him that eateth despise him that eateth not; and let not him which eateth not judge him that eateth: for God hath received him.
So, if you encounter one who is weak in the faith and believes he must eat vegetables only, don’t let this puff you up…
2Co 10:12 For we dare not make ourselves of the number, or compare ourselves with some that commend themselves: but they measuring themselves by themselves, and comparing themselves among themselves, are not wise.
What is the gold standard here?
1Pe 2:21 For even hereunto were ye called: because Christ also suffered for us, leaving us an example, that ye should follow his steps:
Eph 4:13 Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:
Rom 14:4 Who art thou that judgest another man's servant? to his own master he standeth or falleth. Yea, he shall be holden up: for God is able to make him stand.
Now to the meat and potatoes…
Rom 14:5 One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day alike. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind.
Rom 14:6 He that regardeth the day, regardeth it unto the Lord; and he that regardeth not the day, to the Lord he doth not regard it. He that eateth, eateth to the Lord, for he giveth God thanks; and he that eateth not, to the Lord he eateth not, and giveth God thanks.
Why is eating and fasting (not eating) connected to days here? Let’s see…
Luk 18:11 The Pharisee stood and prayed thus with himself, God, I thank thee, that I am not as other men are, extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even as this publican.
Luk 18:12 I fast twice in the week, I give tithes of all that I possess.
From Bullingers Companion Bible…
Luke 18:12
twice in the week. The law prescribed only one in the year (Lev_16:29. Num_29:7). By the time of Zec_8:19 there were four yearly fasts. In our Lord's day they were bi-weekly (Monday and Thursday), between Passover and Pentecost; and between the Feast of Tabernacles and the Dedication.
Yes they fasted two days a week, Monday and Thursday, EVERY MONDAY and EVERY THURSDAY.
Rom 14:7 For none of us liveth to himself, and no man dieth to himself.
Rom 14:8 For whether we live, we live unto the Lord; and whether we die, we die unto the Lord: whether we live therefore, or die, we are the Lord's.
Rom 14:9 For to this end Christ both died, and rose, and revived, that he might be Lord both of the dead and living.
Rom 14:10 But why dost thou judge thy brother? or why dost thou set at nought thy brother? for we shall all stand before the judgment seat of Christ.
Rom 14:11 For it is written, As I live, saith the Lord, every knee shall bow to me, and every tongue shall confess to God.
Rom 14:12 So then every one of us shall give account of himself to God.
Rom 14:13 Let us not therefore judge one another any more: but judge this rather, that no man put a stumblingblock or an occasion to fall in his brother's way.
Rom 14:14 I know, and am persuaded by the Lord Jesus, that there is nothing unclean of itself: but to him that esteemeth any thing to be unclean, to him it is unclean.
Rom 14:15 But if thy brother be grieved with thy meat, now walkest thou not charitably. Destroy not him with thy meat, for whom Christ died.
Now Paul shifts his attention to meat offered to idols. At the time, meat and drink were offered to pagan idols. After it was offered it was sold in a meat market called the ‘Shambles’.
1Co 10:25 Whatsoever is sold in the shambles, that eat, asking no question for conscience sake:
Shambles…
G3111
μάκελλον
makellon
Thayer Definition:
1) a place where meat and other articles of food are sold, meat market
Part of Speech: noun neuter
A Related Word by Thayer’s/Strong’s Number: of Latin origin [macellum]
Citing in TDNT: 4:370, 549
There were those who were weak in the faith (verse 1) who were offended by this. They somehow thought that eating that food was somehow connecting them with the idolatrous practices around them. This is why the following is written…
Rom 14:16 Let not then your good be evil spoken of:
Rom 14:17 For the kingdom of God is not meat and drink; but righteousness, and peace, and joy in the Holy Ghost.
Meat here is…
G1035
βρῶσις
brōsis
bro'-sis
From the base of G977; (abstractly) eating (literally or figuratively); by extension (concretely) food (literally or figuratively): - eating, food, meat.
Notice it is food, not clean or unclean flesh.
G4213
πόσις
posis
pos'-is
From the alternate of G4095; a drinking (the act), that is, (concretely) a draught: - drink.
Drinking, can be alcoholic or non-alcoholic beverages. Paul was dealing with ascetism and the belief that doing without was somehow a show of character. He dealt with this issue at Colossae also…
Col 2:21 (Touch not; taste not; handle not;
Col 2:22 Which all are to perish with the using
after the commandments and doctrines of men? Col 2:23 Which things have indeed a shew of wisdom in will worship, and humility, and neglecting of the body; not in any honour to the satisfying of the flesh.
Rom 14:18 For he that in these things serveth Christ is acceptable to God, and approved of men.
Rom 14:19 Let us therefore follow after the things which make for peace, and things wherewith one may edify another.
Rom 14:20 For meat destroy not the work of God. All things indeed are pure; but it is evil for that man who eateth with offence.
The word for meat here is broma, from Thayer’s…
G1033
βρῶμα
brōma
Thayer Definition:
1) that which is eaten, food
Part of Speech: noun neuter
A Related Word by Thayer’s/Strong’s Number: from the base of G977
Citing in TDNT: 1:642, 111
Again, we are dealing with food.
Rom 14:21 It is good neither to eat flesh, nor to drink wine, nor any thing whereby thy brother stumbleth, or is offended, or is made weak.
So, it is not dealing with clean and unclean, but with flesh (meat) and wine (drink) that makes a weak brother stumble.
Rom 14:22 Hast thou faith? have it to thyself before God. Happy is he that condemneth not himself in that thing which he alloweth.
Rom 14:23 And he that doubteth is damned if he eat, because he eateth not of faith: for whatsoever is not of faith is sin.
There is no passage in Rom 14 that deals with the Sabbath or clean and unclean meats. The subjects are vegetarianism, fasting and food and drink offered to idols.
What about DEUT 12 which says that we should not worship in the way the pagans do? That we should not take their holidays and dedicate them to God, for it is an ABOMINATION unto GOD!
This is how the story of santa clause...
Molech, the people would worship him on december 25th, everyone would fill out a list of their desires, then they would take a child and get Molech red hot with fire, they would place the child on Molech's lap to fulfill the desires...
Today we call him Santa...
People used to. They also used to celebrate the seasons called xmas and Ishtar in very disgusting ways.
D
didymos
Guest
Do we sacrifice kids for christmas then?
Just kidding. It’s good idea to distinguish between the essential and the nonessential here. Essential is: celebrating the ‘Word becoming flesh.’ If we chose to celebrate christmas, it should in the first place be about Christ. Non essential is: the date, christmas trees, food and drink etc. As long as we get the essential part of christmas right, the rest shouldn’t be that much of a problem.
‘Worshiping God like the pagans do,’ means: not getting the essentials right. When worshiping Him doesn’t do justice to who He is anymore, like for instance by sacrificing children to Him. When Christmas ULTIMATELY isn’t about Christ anymore, the nonessentials become ESSENTIAL, and XMAS truly has become a pagan holiday.
Do we sacrifice kids for christmas?
Just kidding. It’s good idea to distinguish between the essential and the nonessential here. Essential is: celebrating the ‘Word becoming flesh.’ If we chose to celebrate Christmas, it should in the first place be about Christ. Non essential is: the date, christmas trees, food and drink etc. As long as we get the essential part of Christmas right, the rest shouldn’t be that much of a problem.
‘Worshiping God like the pagans do,’ means: not getting the essentials right. When worshiping Him doesn’t do justice to who He is anymore, like for instance by sacrificing children to Him. When Christmas ULTIMATELY isn’t about Christ anymore, the nonessentials become ESSENTIAL, and XMAS truly has become a pagan holiday.
Uh, if we teach them that Santa is the one to thank and worship for all the good gifts we receive. If we pervert our worship of God with pagan practices, yes.
Ok, what happens on (some) pagan holidays? Ritual blood sacrifices, all manner of evil, etc. Let's use halloween for example. Satanists do ritual blood sacrifices on halloween, and dedicate it to Satan. This is jmo, but I think HOW you celebrate a pagan holiday is what matters. Obviously if you kill a person to do a satanic sacrifice, then that's evil. But if you do something honorable such as revering Jesus on Christmas, then that's good. Jesus looks at our hearts, T_.. if we celebrate a holiday (even a pagan one) with goodhearted intentions, that's what he looks at. The nature of our heart when we celebrate.. but again this is jmo..
so the catholic church praying at midnight, to there hollowed saints on all hollows eve ok?
no blood involved but trying to talk to spirits, and the world follows all there man made traditions
D