Mo0448 - you posted
- Judas killing himself when the recognition of his sin against Jesus was too much to bear. He does "repent" when he goes back and returns the money that was given to him when he recognized that he had wronged the Lord. Also, his Death was prophesied in the Old Testament. So does that mean that he Lived and Died by Killing himself and condemning himself to hell just so a prophecy could come to pass? Or was it more of a "I really screwed up, Jesus didn't deserve that, I can't live with the pain of having sold out the Messiah the Lord". Yet didn't Jesus say he would be resurrected on the third day...so did Judas not believe Jesus so did he not have faith?
Judas was called "the son of perdition and he did not repent and yes, he went to Hell. John 17:12 While I was with them in the world, I kept them in thy name: those that thou gavest me I have kept, and none of them is lost, but the son of perdition; that the scripture might be fulfilled.
John 13:27 And after the sop 'Satan entered into him'. Then said Jesus unto him, That thou doest, do quickly.
Paul talks about two types of feeling sorry for what we've done here - 2Cor 7:10 For godly sorrow worketh repentance to salvation not to be repented of: but the sorrow of the world worketh death.
Judas did not have "godly sorrow". He spent approx 3 yrs with Jesus and never was a good guy - as it says he kept the bag for Jesus and His men and took money from that expense money and that he didn't care about the poor.
There are only two men in the Bible that are called "the son of perdition" and one is Judas and the other is antiChrist.
So does that mean that he Lived and Died by Killing himself and condemning himself to hell just so a prophecy could come to pass?
You're not serious with this question, are you? I uncapitalized the 'h' in reference to Judas in this sentence above.
"Prophecy" is God "foretelling what He knows by His omniscient foreknowledge" of what each human being will do from beginning to end. That includes what Esau did, et al, though he gave him [and all] every chance to do what's right - just as He does for all.
1. Do you believe that someone who is mentally unstable (or has a form of mental retardation) that does not allow them to rationalize thoughts in a coherent manner commits suicide, do you think they go to hell?
You don't mention whether you're asking about saved people or not - but all mankind are given a conscience and that would mean that "you shall not kill" is somewhere in the soul of a human. How can we believe that He only meant - killing others is wrong but killing oneself is not wrong?
Can anyone find anywhere in the Bible where "mental illness" is found? Or does the Bible just deal with the "thoughts" of man?
I knew a girl, a Pastor's daughter, that was so mentally retarded that at age 12, she couldn't speak, had to be accompanied to the ladies room, and was determined to be barely 2 yrs old mentally/cognitively, but she knew God and would go up to the altar after service and look up at the cross and smile, shake her hands with joy as if she was having a communication with Him -- and the same with a woman in the Nursing Home where I worked -- but she couldn't walk at all and was approx at the 5 month old stage of Alzheimer's - so it depends on the 'spiritual' state of a person, because the 'spirit' of a person is not retarded, but quite alive in a truly saved person, regardless of any physical damage to the brain.
2. If someone who just mass murdered several people, and then kill themselves, where does that leave them?
Hell.
3. If, God is the giver of life (as many mentioned) and we decide to become "gods" by taking control and ending our own lives is that not any different than the sin of pride?
Pride is "the root" of All sin. Suicide as well. Eph 5:29 "For no man ever yet hated his own flesh".
I know that's a tough one to believe but it's true. Sort of blows the 'low self-esteem' bit to bits.
1John 2:16,17 "For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world. And the world passeth away, and the lust thereof: but he that doeth the will of God abideth for ever."
The low self-esteem is "self-consciousness" -- it all revolves around "self" being important to "self" rather than being like Christ - Who was "others minded always" and self-less. If we look in any Dictionary under "self" and words that begin with "self" - it's an eye opener.
If we know that Jesus is "The Word of God" and yet say that "The Word of God" is not enough to get our thoughts straightened out, then we're saying that though He is as good as His Words - He's not enough nor His Words that make Him Who He is.
Recovery may take some time of 'renewing one's mind' and being 'cleansed by the washing of the Word' and 'taking every thought captive to the obedience 'of' Christ' .... but a true Biblical counselor or one just making the time to sit at His feet can find where their thoughts are gone wrong and replace their own thoughts with His, from His Word. Whether they do it by Journaling the verses that help them or just reading faithfully with the hope of having the sound mind or self-discipline that He promised us.
When we get sad, we have a 'choice' of what to do with our initial 'sad' thoughts. If we're Christians - we can read The Word of God and take every thought captive to the obedience of Christ, who was self-less and others-minded-always.
We can read His Word, such as the Psalms - or other comforting thoughts that address what we're sad about and find comfort, or God is a liar and His promises are meant only for others and not for all that are alive right now.
Satan rose up in pride and wanted to rise above God and so did Eve want to be 'as God'. The real original sin. Wanting to be the God of our own lives [autonomy - wiser than God] is pride and every sin is birthed from that pride.
Suicide is saying to God that He doesn't know what the heck He's doing, allowing us to suffer so much, that we need to take control of things and end it ... when He said that we are saved by "continuously faithing" or saved by "faith". Is it just faith in the cross or faith in God being God as well?
Heb 11:6 But without faith it is 'impossible' [adunatos] to please Him: for he that cometh to God
must believe that He is, and that He is a rewarder of them that diligently seek Him.
Rom 1:19 Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them.
Who's the "them" in Rom 1:18-32?
Suicide is the only sin that if accomplished quickly enough cannot be repented of and if one intentionally takes the slower route so that they can say they're sorry enough times, it's not different then what Judas did with his own life - from the time he returned the money - then to go get the rope and tying it and putting the noose on.
The reasons for the suicide may differ from his, but the act of suicide is still based upon a worldly self-centered sorrow and nothing Biblical.
No saved person wants to say that the Bible isn't True ... but the enemy of our souls would love to convince us it is by focusing our eyes on ourselves instead of others.
Someone said that we need to be compassionate for the sake of those who had someone they love commit suicide. I have compassion on the loved ones that have had someone do that to themselves because that's one of the greatest pains that a friend or family member could ever feel --- but that's the 2nd reason Why we need to stop it from happening to those that are still living --- whatever it takes.
None of what I've written here or elsewhere is a "works based gospel" and I'm truly tiring of hearing that accusation being thrown around, most especially on this thread, as this is a true life or death issue, where more than just one person gets hurt. It's all just Sola Scriptura. And that "works based gospel" topic
should and can be dealt with by Sola Scriptura as well.
Stay Strong all!
