If Everything is Perfect In Heaven, Why Does God Work So Hard On Our Character?
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Zephaniah 3:9 For then will I turn to the people a pure language, that they may all call upon the name of the LORD, to serve him with one consent. --- yeah one language
Philippians 2:2 Fulfil ye my joy, that ye be likeminded, having the same love, being of one accord, of one mind. --- arguments not likely
Kind of reversing what happened at the Tower of Babel...
Genesis 11:9 Therefore is the name of it called Babel; because the LORD did there confound the language of all the earth: and from thence did the LORD scatter them abroad upon the face of all the earth.
As the answer to why would He even bother is that He wants us here to freely choose whether we want to undergo such a transformation and be forever with Him, or not, and also to reduce evil on here as much as possible.
This idea of how the life in Heaven will look like people imagine a lot like angels sitting on clouds all day and playing harps.
Umm, not exactly.
We are going to be one with God and that is going to be tremendous in itself.
Out of time, out of space. Just pure life. The same Life Himself that moves everything on this Earth, the same being that moves the universe with His power. We are going to be part of Him.
Philippians 2:2 Fulfil ye my joy, that ye be likeminded, having the same love, being of one accord, of one mind. --- arguments not likely
Kind of reversing what happened at the Tower of Babel...
Genesis 11:9 Therefore is the name of it called Babel; because the LORD did there confound the language of all the earth: and from thence did the LORD scatter them abroad upon the face of all the earth.
As the answer to why would He even bother is that He wants us here to freely choose whether we want to undergo such a transformation and be forever with Him, or not, and also to reduce evil on here as much as possible.
This idea of how the life in Heaven will look like people imagine a lot like angels sitting on clouds all day and playing harps.
Umm, not exactly.
We are going to be one with God and that is going to be tremendous in itself.
Out of time, out of space. Just pure life. The same Life Himself that moves everything on this Earth, the same being that moves the universe with His power. We are going to be part of Him.
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The passages are very helpful, thank you all!!
I do have to wonder though if we will "automatically" know everything when we get there or if we will have to take the time to learn. I understand about there being one language... I just wonder if we'll all have it in our brains as soon a we cross over after death... or if it's another process we would all have to actually learn.
I do have to wonder though if we will "automatically" know everything when we get there or if we will have to take the time to learn. I understand about there being one language... I just wonder if we'll all have it in our brains as soon a we cross over after death... or if it's another process we would all have to actually learn.
It's easy! Just ask God to bless you with no kids, no pets, a long distance from family, and limited time with friends (because they're all busy with their OWN families and pets) for at least 11 years. Come home everyday and hear the hollow echo of your keys being thrown on the table... and you'll find spending time with God is all that keeps you from going crazy.
I have nothing but admiration for parents though--God calls us ALL to different places. My place isn't any more or less valuable, but it does have its own unique challenges!
I always try to keep up on studying God's Word but I do go through phases where my life is literally work, prayer, Bible... and almost nothing else.
It's one of the ways God is developing my own character.
I have nothing but admiration for parents though--God calls us ALL to different places. My place isn't any more or less valuable, but it does have its own unique challenges!
I always try to keep up on studying God's Word but I do go through phases where my life is literally work, prayer, Bible... and almost nothing else.
It's one of the ways God is developing my own character.
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I dont believe learning will be needed, looking upon the Pentecost.
It was enough to be filled with the Holy Spirit to speak this language that everyone understood:
Acts 2:6 Now when this was noised abroad, the multitude came together, and were confounded, because that every man heard them speak in his own language.
Because this language was beyond words, it was the original Word.
It was enough to be filled with the Holy Spirit to speak this language that everyone understood:
Acts 2:6 Now when this was noised abroad, the multitude came together, and were confounded, because that every man heard them speak in his own language.
Because this language was beyond words, it was the original Word.
J
as it is written "everyone will do whatever they think is right in their own eyes"(and much evil, as written in Timothy, et al)
as it is written "counting others as better than ourselves" AND seeing that others needs are met BEFORE our own(self-sacrifice, as Jesus says), and
even "no longer lie to one another" is not even practiced by the (merely) religious, but this only applies to the ekklesia born again ones set apart and immersed in Jesus Name. not to most church goers nor to most people on earth.
yes. right now. if we hear his voice. today. (over one hundred references in the NT about being FULLY CONFORMED TO HIM now today, not sometime by and by.... BEING TODAY in FULL AGREEMENT WITH YAHWEH(GoD).... sorry- this is not taught by man's religions, not even christianitey, but only by ekklesia on earth submitted to God to live HIS LIFE.
as it is written "counting others as better than ourselves" AND seeing that others needs are met BEFORE our own(self-sacrifice, as Jesus says), and
even "no longer lie to one another" is not even practiced by the (merely) religious, but this only applies to the ekklesia born again ones set apart and immersed in Jesus Name. not to most church goers nor to most people on earth.
yes. right now. if we hear his voice. today. (over one hundred references in the NT about being FULLY CONFORMED TO HIM now today, not sometime by and by.... BEING TODAY in FULL AGREEMENT WITH YAHWEH(GoD).... sorry- this is not taught by man's religions, not even christianitey, but only by ekklesia on earth submitted to God to live HIS LIFE.
J
there won't be any arguments, fighting, disagreements nor jealousy in heaven, (nor in redeemed obedient ekklesia on earth !)
as
those are all called sin and carnal and no more part of the character in the new creation in Christ Jesus.
boring? no way. CREATIVE BEAUTY ! totally. serving the CREATOR of ALL UNIVERSES AND ALL LIFE !
as
those are all called sin and carnal and no more part of the character in the new creation in Christ Jesus.
boring? no way. CREATIVE BEAUTY ! totally. serving the CREATOR of ALL UNIVERSES AND ALL LIFE !
J
'be bad' ? there will be no sorrow, no pain, no evil in heaven to be. no demons no greed, no selfishness... perfect obedient service to God in all He desires....
Jesus came to earth to destroy the works of the devil. His disciples throw out demons right and left - no worries there(sometimes lots of prayer and fasting; but no worries).
Ekklesia are today in UNION with Yhvh(God), already.... and helping other believers now on earth(not like churches are doing; but for real)....
not 'getting' but 'giving' self-sacrificially (Jesus says "I know you don't know how, come to Me and I will show you how")
not storing up savings on earth in bank accounts and retirement accounts,
but treasure in heaven (very few know about this, though it is written- they are prevented by their friends, families and churches) where
thieves cannot get to it and moth and rust do not destroy it..... TODAY IS THE DAY, HEAR HIS VOICE.... (few do)
Jesus came to earth to destroy the works of the devil. His disciples throw out demons right and left - no worries there(sometimes lots of prayer and fasting; but no worries).
Ekklesia are today in UNION with Yhvh(God), already.... and helping other believers now on earth(not like churches are doing; but for real)....
not 'getting' but 'giving' self-sacrificially (Jesus says "I know you don't know how, come to Me and I will show you how")
not storing up savings on earth in bank accounts and retirement accounts,
but treasure in heaven (very few know about this, though it is written- they are prevented by their friends, families and churches) where
thieves cannot get to it and moth and rust do not destroy it..... TODAY IS THE DAY, HEAR HIS VOICE.... (few do)
Well it does not have to be bad.
I believe God will actually be sending us on missions to fight demons and help other believers as we will be one with Him and yeah we will be jealous with God's jealousy. Such things. It will be an adventure. And yeah a lot of creativity
I believe God will actually be sending us on missions to fight demons and help other believers as we will be one with Him and yeah we will be jealous with God's jealousy. Such things. It will be an adventure. And yeah a lot of creativity
T
Simple: To enter Heaven, We must already be perfect.
Leviticus 11:44-45 "Consecrate yourselves. You shall be holy, for I am holy."
This earthly life is a series of warfare and temptations, which, although engineered by Satan, can be used to enhance one's holiness if reacted to them correctly.
1 Peter 1:1-16 "Be holy in all your conduct, It is written: You shall be holy, for I am holy."
When God says that we should be holy like he is, he's not bluffing. In this context, 'holy' means 'undefiled'. In order to be truly undefiled, one must first be defiled, and go through a process where he must resist further defilement, while cleansing himself of his current defilement via living a Christ-like lifestyle.
[HR][/HR]In short, God works hard on our character, and continuously urges us to improve our character, because we need to improve, otherwise we're be in danger of losing our souls.
We are a work in progress; until we become perfect, we may not enter the kingdom of God.
Leviticus 11:44-45 "Consecrate yourselves. You shall be holy, for I am holy."
This earthly life is a series of warfare and temptations, which, although engineered by Satan, can be used to enhance one's holiness if reacted to them correctly.
1 Peter 1:1-16 "Be holy in all your conduct, It is written: You shall be holy, for I am holy."
When God says that we should be holy like he is, he's not bluffing. In this context, 'holy' means 'undefiled'. In order to be truly undefiled, one must first be defiled, and go through a process where he must resist further defilement, while cleansing himself of his current defilement via living a Christ-like lifestyle.
[HR][/HR]In short, God works hard on our character, and continuously urges us to improve our character, because we need to improve, otherwise we're be in danger of losing our souls.
We are a work in progress; until we become perfect, we may not enter the kingdom of God.
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You completely misunderstood my post...
I said that fighting or jealousy doesnt have to be evil.
It is good if you're fighting demons or if it is God's jealousy as opposed to human ungodly fights and arguments.
But I better go away before stones get cast, lately everybody has been in that kind of mood.
I said that fighting or jealousy doesnt have to be evil.
It is good if you're fighting demons or if it is God's jealousy as opposed to human ungodly fights and arguments.
But I better go away before stones get cast, lately everybody has been in that kind of mood.
><>t<><
You are trying to make life way too complicated and confusing. This advise will come almost exclusively from the Word of GOD, and God is not the author confusion. Let's start with your confusion over Prayer. From the way you talked about it, you seem to have fallen for a common confusion. PRAYER is NOT a way to make GOD do what we want. PRAYER is in reality a way for us to actively participate in doing GOD's Will. He gave us what we call the Lords Prayer, as a MODEL for all prayer.
Matthew 6:9-15 (NIV)
[SUP]9 [/SUP] "This, then, is how you should pray: "'Our Father in heaven, hallowed be your name,
[SUP]10 [/SUP] your kingdom come, your will be done on earth as it is in heaven.
[SUP]11 [/SUP] Give us today our daily bread.
[SUP]12 [/SUP] Forgive us our debts, as we also have forgiven our debtors.
[SUP]13 [/SUP] And lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from the evil one.'
[SUP]14 [/SUP] For if you forgive men when they sin against you, your heavenly Father will also forgive you.
[SUP]15 [/SUP] But if you do not forgive men their sins, your Father will not forgive your sins.
In prayer we are to Glorify the Father and His name.
We are to pray for the advancement of His kingdom.
We are to pray for HIS WILL TO BE DONE, not our will.
We are permitted to pray for our genuine NEEDS, not Wants.
We are to pray for forgiveness every time sin sneeks in.
We are to pray for the ability to forgive others.
We are to pray for spiritual strength to say NO to sin's temptation.
We are to pray for the ability to resist the Devil.
PLUS
We are to pray for the spiritual and physical needs of OTHERS.
You can word your prayers however you are comfortable talking to GOD.
Whether it sounds Formal or intimately personalis not the important part.
IT MUST BE SINCERELY FROM THE HEART OUT OF LOVE FOR HIM.
Over the many years that I have been a Christian, I have learned that GOD
rarely answers prayers that are motivated by selfishness. I have also learned
that when I a genuinely focused on praying for the spiritual and physical needs
of others, GOD takes care of my needs, so that I can focus on praying even
harder for others.
1 Corinthians 10:23-24 (NASB)
[SUP]23 [/SUP] All things are lawful, but not all things are profitable. All things are lawful, but not all things edify.
[SUP]24 [/SUP] Let no one seek his own good, but that of his neighbor.
James 5:16 (HCSB)
[SUP]16 [/SUP] Therefore, confess your sins to one another and pray for one another, so that you may be healed. The urgent request of a righteous person is very powerful in its effect.
1 John 3:16-17 (NKJV)
[SUP]16 [/SUP] By this we know love, because He laid down His life for us. And we also ought to lay down our lives for the brethren.
[SUP]17 [/SUP] But whoever has this world's goods, and sees his brother in need, and shuts up his heart from him, how does the love of God abide in him?
You also seem unsure of why GOD wants us to learn to Walk His WAY. I think you will find your answer it these verses. Remember there is NO glory going to GOD if He just turns us into biological robots.
Leviticus 10:3 (NKJV)
[SUP]3 [/SUP] And Moses said to Aaron, "This is what the LORD spoke, saying: 'By those who come near Me I must be regarded as holy; And before all the poeple, I must be glorified.' " So Aaron held his peace.
1 Peter 4:11 (ISV)
[SUP]11 [/SUP] Whoever speaks must speak God's words. Whoever serves must serve with the strength that God supplies, so that in every way God may be glorified through Jesus Christ. Glory and power belong to him forever and ever! Amen.
If we CHOOSE to LOVE HIM, we Glorify HIM.
If we CHOOSE to Obey HIM, we Glorify HIM.
If we CHOOSE to Revere HIM, we Glorify HIM.
If we CHOOSE to Praise HIM, we Glorify HIM.
If we CHOOSE to Reflect HIS Nature in how we WALK, we Glorify HIM.
If we CHOOSE to surrender to Christ as LORD, meaning Master, we Glorify HIM.
If we CHOOSE to witness to Others, we Glorify HIM.
If we CHOOSE to meet the needs of OTHERS in HIS NAME, we Glorify HIM.
Etc.
GOD must be GLORIFIED!
You are trying to make life way too complicated and confusing. This advise will come almost exclusively from the Word of GOD, and God is not the author confusion. Let's start with your confusion over Prayer. From the way you talked about it, you seem to have fallen for a common confusion. PRAYER is NOT a way to make GOD do what we want. PRAYER is in reality a way for us to actively participate in doing GOD's Will. He gave us what we call the Lords Prayer, as a MODEL for all prayer.
Matthew 6:9-15 (NIV)
[SUP]9 [/SUP] "This, then, is how you should pray: "'Our Father in heaven, hallowed be your name,
[SUP]10 [/SUP] your kingdom come, your will be done on earth as it is in heaven.
[SUP]11 [/SUP] Give us today our daily bread.
[SUP]12 [/SUP] Forgive us our debts, as we also have forgiven our debtors.
[SUP]13 [/SUP] And lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from the evil one.'
[SUP]14 [/SUP] For if you forgive men when they sin against you, your heavenly Father will also forgive you.
[SUP]15 [/SUP] But if you do not forgive men their sins, your Father will not forgive your sins.
In prayer we are to Glorify the Father and His name.
We are to pray for the advancement of His kingdom.
We are to pray for HIS WILL TO BE DONE, not our will.
We are permitted to pray for our genuine NEEDS, not Wants.
We are to pray for forgiveness every time sin sneeks in.
We are to pray for the ability to forgive others.
We are to pray for spiritual strength to say NO to sin's temptation.
We are to pray for the ability to resist the Devil.
PLUS
We are to pray for the spiritual and physical needs of OTHERS.
You can word your prayers however you are comfortable talking to GOD.
Whether it sounds Formal or intimately personalis not the important part.
IT MUST BE SINCERELY FROM THE HEART OUT OF LOVE FOR HIM.
Over the many years that I have been a Christian, I have learned that GOD
rarely answers prayers that are motivated by selfishness. I have also learned
that when I a genuinely focused on praying for the spiritual and physical needs
of others, GOD takes care of my needs, so that I can focus on praying even
harder for others.
1 Corinthians 10:23-24 (NASB)
[SUP]23 [/SUP] All things are lawful, but not all things are profitable. All things are lawful, but not all things edify.
[SUP]24 [/SUP] Let no one seek his own good, but that of his neighbor.
James 5:16 (HCSB)
[SUP]16 [/SUP] Therefore, confess your sins to one another and pray for one another, so that you may be healed. The urgent request of a righteous person is very powerful in its effect.
1 John 3:16-17 (NKJV)
[SUP]16 [/SUP] By this we know love, because He laid down His life for us. And we also ought to lay down our lives for the brethren.
[SUP]17 [/SUP] But whoever has this world's goods, and sees his brother in need, and shuts up his heart from him, how does the love of God abide in him?
You also seem unsure of why GOD wants us to learn to Walk His WAY. I think you will find your answer it these verses. Remember there is NO glory going to GOD if He just turns us into biological robots.
Leviticus 10:3 (NKJV)
[SUP]3 [/SUP] And Moses said to Aaron, "This is what the LORD spoke, saying: 'By those who come near Me I must be regarded as holy; And before all the poeple, I must be glorified.' " So Aaron held his peace.
1 Peter 4:11 (ISV)
[SUP]11 [/SUP] Whoever speaks must speak God's words. Whoever serves must serve with the strength that God supplies, so that in every way God may be glorified through Jesus Christ. Glory and power belong to him forever and ever! Amen.
If we CHOOSE to LOVE HIM, we Glorify HIM.
If we CHOOSE to Obey HIM, we Glorify HIM.
If we CHOOSE to Revere HIM, we Glorify HIM.
If we CHOOSE to Praise HIM, we Glorify HIM.
If we CHOOSE to Reflect HIS Nature in how we WALK, we Glorify HIM.
If we CHOOSE to surrender to Christ as LORD, meaning Master, we Glorify HIM.
If we CHOOSE to witness to Others, we Glorify HIM.
If we CHOOSE to meet the needs of OTHERS in HIS NAME, we Glorify HIM.
Etc.
GOD must be GLORIFIED!
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I am well-aware that God made Adam first. That's why I specifically said, "I wonder..."
It's like I wrote in another thread: "I wonder... if God knew He wasn't going to get Jesus back in the process for our salvation, would He still have sent Him?"
I wonder about a lot of things, and this is what comes out. Which is also my answer to those who say I'm making things too complicated, etc. I think it's all about perspective.
When I was little, I asked my Mom if heaven was like a line to see Santa at Christmastime--I wondered if we'd all have a turn to sit on His lap and ask all the questions we've already had.
I wonder that too, if we'll just know the answers to our questions or if He will teach us over an eternity. However, I do realize that many things probably won't matter anymore. I ask God all my questions now and either don't get an answer or don't understand; in heaven, I know either the answers will come, one way or the other, or I will just no longer care about those things.
But in the meantime...
It's like I wrote in another thread: "I wonder... if God knew He wasn't going to get Jesus back in the process for our salvation, would He still have sent Him?"
I wonder about a lot of things, and this is what comes out. Which is also my answer to those who say I'm making things too complicated, etc. I think it's all about perspective.
When I was little, I asked my Mom if heaven was like a line to see Santa at Christmastime--I wondered if we'd all have a turn to sit on His lap and ask all the questions we've already had.
I wonder that too, if we'll just know the answers to our questions or if He will teach us over an eternity. However, I do realize that many things probably won't matter anymore. I ask God all my questions now and either don't get an answer or don't understand; in heaven, I know either the answers will come, one way or the other, or I will just no longer care about those things.
But in the meantime...
Maybe God needs more time with some of us, so we will really be ready for to be with Jesus?
God has made amazing changes in my heart and mind, but he still has a way to go! The fact is, God does care about this life, and he is transforming us into his image, which will be complete when we are glorified, when we see Jesus.
This has been my life passage, for 5 1/2 years now. It tells me that God's love is going to be poured out into our hearts, when we do not reject the path God has chosen for us. Even if it means suffering terribly.
"Not only that, but we rejoice in our sufferings, knowing that suffering produces endurance, [SUP]4 [/SUP]and endurance produces character, and character produces hope, [SUP]5 [/SUP]andhope does not put us to shame, because God's love has been poured into our hearts through the Holy Spirit who has been given to us." Romans 5:3-5
Besides, seoulsearch, I saw you posting in the BDF the other day! So congrats to you for overcoming that fear! They were some good posts, as I recall!
God has made amazing changes in my heart and mind, but he still has a way to go! The fact is, God does care about this life, and he is transforming us into his image, which will be complete when we are glorified, when we see Jesus.
This has been my life passage, for 5 1/2 years now. It tells me that God's love is going to be poured out into our hearts, when we do not reject the path God has chosen for us. Even if it means suffering terribly.
"Not only that, but we rejoice in our sufferings, knowing that suffering produces endurance, [SUP]4 [/SUP]and endurance produces character, and character produces hope, [SUP]5 [/SUP]andhope does not put us to shame, because God's love has been poured into our hearts through the Holy Spirit who has been given to us." Romans 5:3-5
Besides, seoulsearch, I saw you posting in the BDF the other day! So congrats to you for overcoming that fear! They were some good posts, as I recall!