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Kenneth you did not answer my question...here I will post again...and do please answer the question with scripture and how long before you loose your salvation after you sin!
Originally Posted by dcontroversal
So, how long do you have Kenneth before you are separated and lost again after you sin....1 second, 10 seconds, 1 minute, 5 minutes, maybe a day?
E
not to mention those in remote parts who were saved, and did not have access to water, unless they completed a baptism march of walking for miles. Some may never have made it, but died before they had the chance. We live in a world where we forget, not everyone has the same access to things like we have.
Again, the logic is flawed, and they can not even see it
Again, the logic is flawed, and they can not even see it
Good thing the Father sees true believers through the righteous justifying blood of His son.....
You do understand being SAVED, JUSTIFIED, SANCTIFIED by the blood and faith of CHRIST don't YOU!
Does your bible read like this....
He who believes on the son has eternal life unless he sins?
That whosoever believes on him is having everlasting life unless he sins?
My bible does not read that way......everlasting and eternal mean exactly that!
You do understand being SAVED, JUSTIFIED, SANCTIFIED by the blood and faith of CHRIST don't YOU!
Does your bible read like this....
He who believes on the son has eternal life unless he sins?
That whosoever believes on him is having everlasting life unless he sins?
My bible does not read that way......everlasting and eternal mean exactly that!
I started a thread on this topic: http://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/104501-does-verse-still-hold-true.html
If you want to give your view there I would appreciate it.
Because I want to get peoples view on it...
And im not sure if you say yes or no by your answer?
If you want to give your view there I would appreciate it.
Because I want to get peoples view on it...
And im not sure if you say yes or no by your answer?
Where in there do you see Jesus preaching, believe that I am going to die for your sins and you will be saved?
You must be arguing with yourself because I've not said most of what you claim. However, water Baptism was commanded by God not me. Therefore it is a command of God not men. To refuse it is to refuse God's command. To tell others to refuse it is false doctrine.
so, neither you or any of those who dismiss water baptism have presented any Scripture suggesting water baptism isn't necessary. All that anyone holding your position has presented are logical fallacies.
You spoke of the baptism of the Holy Spirit. We can see from the Gospels that Jesus received the baptism of the Holy Spirit as He came out of the water of His baptism. So, it was during water Baptism that Jesus received the Holy Spirit.
Let me ask you, how are those who refuse baptism raised from the dead? Paul said if one has been planted toghether with Christ in His death through baptism they will be of the rising again.
3 Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death? {were: or, are}
4 Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
5 For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:
(Rom 6:3-5 KJV)
So, Paul says if one has been baptized they will be in the resurrection, your position has them getting there some other way. My money is on Paul.
E
this is true,
but we also remember in the greek, in acts 2: 38, both remmision of sin and baptizo are in the 3rd person singular mode. Where as gift of the spirit and repent are in the 2nd person plural mode.
Peter was telling everyone to repent, and told them what they would get, He was only telling certain individuals to be baptized, And told us who those people were (those who received remission of sin)
and he proves it by what he said after.
41 Then those who gladly received his word were baptized; and that day about three thousand souls were added to them.
the word recieved is apodechomai which means to accept, and react. these people considered ALL of what peter said, and accepted it as trueth, and acted on it by obeying his first command to repent. because of this they were saved, And then they also acted on his second command, and got baptised.
E
so lets all pray you do not go a whole month without sinning, then commit a sin because someone made you angry and in the act of that sin your life is lost. for you would be in hell forever for that one sin..
jesus died for your sin 2000 years ago. You were not even born yet, your great great great great granparents were not even born yet, He did not die for just the sins before you came to him in faith, he died for every sin you will ever commit in your life. If not. You have no hope.
Why do you teach about baptism using passages that don't speak of baptism?
Your statement contradicts Scripture, there is nothing in Scripture that says one is justified by faith only. As a matter of fact the phrase, faith alone, only appears once in Scripture and it say that a man is "NOT" justified by faith alone.
You're also drawing your conclusion based on a flawed premise. You're statement assumes one is saved before baptism yet Jesus words as recorded in Mark 16 place believe and baptized before saved, thus there is no way one can be saved prior to baptism.
Your statement contradicts Scripture, there is nothing in Scripture that says one is justified by faith only. As a matter of fact the phrase, faith alone, only appears once in Scripture and it say that a man is "NOT" justified by faith alone.
You're also drawing your conclusion based on a flawed premise. You're statement assumes one is saved before baptism yet Jesus words as recorded in Mark 16 place believe and baptized before saved, thus there is no way one can be saved prior to baptism.
E
So jesus just wasted his breath by telling nocodemous, the girl at the well. and all those he spoke to in John 6 to believe in him and they will never die, Never hunger or thirst, Live forever, HAS everlasting life, and the assurance he will raise them on the last day, but Jesus did not mean it?
was it not just you who spoke of logical reasoning? where is the logic in your reasoning which calls jesus a LIAR?
even so. yes it does.
John 6 Jesus said he will give his flesh (die) so all who believe will never die, never hunger or thirst, live forever, HAS eternal life, and assured to be risen on the day of resurrection of the saints.
In john 3, Jesus said that just as Moses raised the serpent, the son of man must be lifted up (die) so all who believe in him will never die, but live forever.
take your blinders off. and put your reading glasses on, You mist see something you have never seen before.
was it not just you who spoke of logical reasoning? where is the logic in your reasoning which calls jesus a LIAR?
even so. yes it does.
John 6 Jesus said he will give his flesh (die) so all who believe will never die, never hunger or thirst, live forever, HAS eternal life, and assured to be risen on the day of resurrection of the saints.
In john 3, Jesus said that just as Moses raised the serpent, the son of man must be lifted up (die) so all who believe in him will never die, but live forever.
take your blinders off. and put your reading glasses on, You mist see something you have never seen before.
E
Because I am using verses which teach about being saved, that is the topic. NOT baptism.
mark 16, lets ignore the hundreds of other verses which say we are saved by faith not works. and place our eternal lives in the hands of a passage which is not even proven to be the literal word of God. and not added at a much later date (especially when other mentions of the account in other gospels do not mention baptism, or the other things spoken after this)
and even if it is, part of scripture. Lets just ASSUME jesus speaks of water baptism done by the hands of men, and not the spirit baptism prophesied by John the baptist,Promised by Jesus, and witnessed by the apostles. to all and on all who believe..
either way, To many passages say we are saved where no mention of baptism is, I showed those passages to you earlier, you wrote them off. thats your problem. not mine, or anyone elses who is looking for truth.
mark 16, lets ignore the hundreds of other verses which say we are saved by faith not works. and place our eternal lives in the hands of a passage which is not even proven to be the literal word of God. and not added at a much later date (especially when other mentions of the account in other gospels do not mention baptism, or the other things spoken after this)
and even if it is, part of scripture. Lets just ASSUME jesus speaks of water baptism done by the hands of men, and not the spirit baptism prophesied by John the baptist,Promised by Jesus, and witnessed by the apostles. to all and on all who believe..
either way, To many passages say we are saved where no mention of baptism is, I showed those passages to you earlier, you wrote them off. thats your problem. not mine, or anyone elses who is looking for truth.