Does Acts 2:38 mean we have to be baptized to get into Heaven? -Debate

[kennethcadwell]

HAHAHHAHAHAHHAHHA that is a joke coming from you....In his first 4 or 5 posts has shown more wisdom in the truth than you have in the months that I have been seeing you write....That is funny coming from you for sure...I suggest you listen to him as YOU DID contradict yourself!

Well my brother I did not because we are not to make those life and death judgment calls on others.
We are to leave those to the Lord to decide, we are commanded to show love, forgiveness, and mercy toward all others.
If you want to say it is a contradiction then you take away what the Lord can do, which I do not.

All I can simply tell you is what scripture says about disobeying the Lords commands and teachings, and if you don't apply them in your life. Which it clearly says that disobedience to Him leads to death, not eternal life. If you want to reject that, this is on you not on me. I love our Lord Jesus Christ and I will never reject and not follow His teachings He gave us under the new covenant we are under.

If you want to say that by following all the Lord's commands out of love for Him is false doctrine and not needed, then all I can say is I will pray for you. And when you stand before Christ and have to give an account of the things you did in life, I hope one of the things He says to you is why did you not obey My commands.

 

[Jabberjaw]

More misapplication of James in ignorance.........

James has nothing to do with Romans 4:5 addressing those who try to keep (do the works of) the Law of Moses, you really should take some time out and learn these things before calling someone ignorant.

 

[kennethcadwell]

More misapplication of James in ignorance.........

It is not a misapplication of James.
James clearly says just like Jesus did, if you claim that He is your Lord and do not do the things out of love for Him that He told you to do. Then He is not your Lord, and you do not have salvation.
If you don't want to believe this, continue to show hatred toward others, not help people in need, stay firm on the death penalty instead of forgiveness and mercy, and so on....Then see where that gets you when you stand at the judgment seat.

 

[dcontroversal]

James has nothing to do with Romans 4:5 addressing those who try to keep (do the works of) the Law of Moses, you really should take some time out and learn these things before calling someone ignorant.

I suggest you go back, put your glasses on and read as my statement was directed at Kenneth's misapplication of JAMES and stands, because IGNORANCE means that HE does not know what he is talking about.....

 

[Jabberjaw]

I suggest you go back, put your glasses on and read as my statement was directed at Kenneth's misapplication of JAMES and stands, because IGNORANCE means that HE does not know what he is talking about.....

and I said before you tell someone they don't know what they are talking about, you should be sure you know what you are talking about, Romans 4:5 is Paul rebuking those that try and keep the Mosaic Law, and not the Law of Christ... James does not preach another gospel.

 

[kennethcadwell]

I suggest you go back, put your glasses on and read as my statement was directed at Kenneth's misapplication of JAMES and stands, because IGNORANCE means that HE does not know what he is talking about.....

You are the one that does not know what you are talking about, and your continuous showing of hatred in your wording toward another is a clear example of that.
James refers back to what the Lord said that if your faith does not show in your actions, then you are not saved...period.

James 2 and Matthew 25 say the same thing if you refuse to help others that are in need you have no salvation coming to you, but eternal punishment instead. If you deny others the same love, forgiveness, and mercy that was shown to you by the Lord our God, then you have no salvation coming your way no matter how much to try to say you believe in Him.
Your actions show differently.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

when we are baptized we receive the name of the lord jesus christ and forgiveness of sins.
if we are not baptized we won't receive his promises as sons.
let´s see the example of life, when we died all our possessions pass to our children or to some one who has our last name. so is the gospel.. we need to be baptized to take the name of the lord jesus christ so we can receive eternal life.
if I believe in jesus and I am NOT baptized, then it wouldn't be need to go church, or do something for the gospel because i'm already saved by faith ?
the whole world believe in god, but it doesn't mean they are all saved.
let´s all ponder on it

thats faulty reasoning and argument.

a better argument would be, if one truly had faith (which saves) In God, would they not do what he says to do. Which is to be baptized, Go to church, Feed the poor. Study to show ourselves approved. etc etc etc.

and if they do not do these things, did they have faith in God at all?

if they did not have faith.. where they saved at all (most of us would agree, the answer would be no)

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I will pose a few questions to you like I have done to others;


Did the Lord Jesus command baptism? ( Matthew 28:19, Mark 16:16 )

Did the Lord say that if you love Him you will keep His commandments? ( John 14:15,23 )

If you say yes to those two questions, which you should then you can also read how those who don't do what the Lord says are called disobedient servants, and the bible calls disobedience as a sin of unbelief. ( Hebrews 3 and 4 )
And we also know that those who live in unbelief do not have salvation.

No one here would argue. for we would agree, one who says they have faith, but do not do the work God commands, they really had no faith at all. They had no salvation because their faith was dead

thats not the problem. the problem is people saying these works are required for salvation. if this is the case. we save ourselves by our actions. and take away from the fact God saved us by his on act of obedience (the cross) and it is our faith in this, and everything God says, which causes us to work.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Well if you believe that, then try to explain to me why Dconn constantly debates with me when I say one who believes in Jesus will be a hearer and a doer, and not just a hearer only.

dc is not arguing against that, He is arguing against the works which come from being a doer save you. and not doing enough of these works will cause you to lose salvation. your not listening to him.

That is what I keep saying is that Jesus clearly says a believer will be one who is a hearer and doer, and not just a hearer. A hearer only the bible says will fall, be beaten, appointed to the lake of fire, and their ruin will be great.

and DC would agree with you 100%

but that is not the argument here

 

[Atwood]

your continuous showing of hatred in your wording toward another is a clear example of that.

Kenneth, you appear to be skating on very thin ice. Hatred is a heart condition. Do you know what is in his heart? Are you guilty of the sin of judging now?

James refers back to what the Lord said that if your faith does not show in your actions, then you are not saved...period.

I don't recall anyone disagreeing with that, Kenneth. But don't you deny that persons are saved in this life anyway? Don't you hold that salvation awaits the outcome of the Sheep & Goat Judgment (to which judgment the Church does not go, & to which judgment no one who died today goes).

James 2 and Matthew 25 say the same thing if you refuse to help others that are in need you have no salvation coming to you, but eternal punishment instead.

Now there we have your error blatantly exposed. You say "coming to you." But the Bible declares that salvation is a present possession of those who trust Christ the Savior.

Talk about "not saved period."
Evidently you don't believe anyone is saved period in this life.
But I tell you that if you do not trust Christ as your Savior, you are not saved period.
And if you do trust Him, then you are saved period.

What must I do to be saved?
Believe on the Lord Jesus, and you shall be saved.

If you trust in water as your idol, then you are not saved period.
If you trust in your ability to keep God's commandments, you are not saved period.

For by grace you have been saved through faith,
and that not of yourselves, not of works lest anyone should boast.

Thou shalt call His name Jesus, for He shall save His people from their sins.

If you deny others the same love, forgiveness, and mercy that was shown to you by the Lord our God, then you have no salvation coming your way

So Kenneth, since you do not show others the same love, forgiveness, and mercy (but rather, you show selfishness) --
are you ready for the Lake of Fire?

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Dude, you have no clue, you cannot understand (or wont because it goes against your man made doctrine) Acts 2:38 and it is so simple, the Greek says exactly what the English does, "Repent all of you" and "Be baptized every one of you".

It is no different if I had a job for my workers and I said to them, "I have a Job for all of you, each one of you bring your tools"...

Read your bible, don't twist it.

sorry but it does not say that at all.

You do not understand greek, nor do you understand the rules of language.

the gift of the holy spirit has nothing to do with baptism, it has everything to do with repenting. Thats not fiction. that is fact. You can deny it all you want but you deny it to your own damnation.

repent. (verb, aorist, active, imperative, second person, plural)

Baptized (verb, aorist, passive, imperative, third person, singular)

every one of you(pronoun, personal, second person, plural)

so see, your wrong, every one of you does not even FIT to being baptized He is telling every one of you to REPENT.

Shall recieve (verb, future, middle, indicative, second person, plural)

nice try, but your wrong. Baptizo is not even an active command, it is a passive one. and is relation only to remission of sin. ie, those who have received remission of sin, get baptized

 

[kennethcadwell]

Kenneth, you appear to be skating on very thin ice. Hatred is a heart condition. Do you know what is in his heart? Are you guilty of the sin of judging now?



I don't recall anyone disagreeing with that, Kenneth. But don't you deny that persons are saved in this life anyway? Don't you hold that salvation awaits the outcome of the Sheep & Goat Judgment (to which judgment the Church does not go, & to which judgment no one who died today goes).



Now there we have your error blatantly exposed. You say "coming to you." But the Bible declares that salvation is a present possession of those who trust Christ the Savior.

Talk about "not saved period."
Evidently you don't believe anyone is saved period in this life.
But I tell you that if you do not trust Christ as your Savior, you are not saved period.
And if you do trust Him, then you are saved period.

What must I do to be saved?
Believe on the Lord Jesus, and you shall be saved.

If you trust in water as your idol, then you are not saved period.
If you trust in your ability to keep God's commandments, you are not saved period.

For by grace you have been saved through faith,
and that not of yourselves, not of works lest anyone should boast.

Thou shalt call His name Jesus, for He shall save His people from their sins.




So Kenneth, since you do not show others the same love, forgiveness, and mercy (but rather, you show selfishness) --
are you ready for the Lake of Fire?

The bible says you will know a person by the fruits they produce, in other words their actions.
I have seen him since being on this site being judgmental, name calling, condemning, and getting in heated debates with others. These are all things listed in the bible not to be a part of a believers life.

I do show the same love, forgiveness, and mercy by saying I pray for them, show others exactly what Jesus said, not be condemning to others, and not call them names. I do not show selfishness, if I was selfish I would not give the same warnings that Jesus, Paul, and the other apostles gave to us to others. It would be selfish not to warn them.

Nowhere does the bible say salvation is a present possession, it says we can be assured that we will have salvation by our walk in love.
Jesus says, He who endures to the end shall be saved.
He says endurance comes before saved, if salvation is a present possession then our Lord Jesus lied. He did not.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I have never read that one who believes is not baptized will not be saved

because you will not find it.

 

[kennethcadwell]

dc is not arguing against that, He is arguing against the works which come from being a doer save you. and not doing enough of these works will cause you to lose salvation. your not listening to him.



and DC would agree with you 100%

but that is not the argument here

I did not say there is a certain amount of works you have to do to be saved.
I said they have to be present in your walk in the faith, no showing in actions/works shows no salvation.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

You always leave the rest out:

1 Corinthians 1:14 (NKJV) I thank God that I baptized none of you except Crispus and Gaius,

Paul thanks God for not having baptized certain people that would brag they were baptized by him... you know that, but deny it because it goes against your man made doctrine.

thanks, you just proved one can brag (boast) of baptism.

Not of works, lest anyone MAY (have the ability to) BOAST.

Guess baptism is a work after all..

 

[Mitspa]

Baptism is in the Gospel:

Acts 8:35-36 (NKJV) [SUP]35 [/SUP] Then Philip opened his mouth, and beginning at this Scripture, preached Jesus to him. [SUP]36 [/SUP] Now as they went down the road, they came to some water. And the eunuch said, "See, here is water. What hinders me from being baptized?"

Clearly its not.. God did not send Paul to baptize but to preach the gospel...how could Paul separate the gospel from baptism if they was the same?

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I did not say there is a certain amount of works you have to do to be saved.
I said they have to be present in your walk in the faith, no showing in actions/works shows no salvation.

yet you say salvation can be lost.

so you HAVE to be saying one can do work and still not be saved. Thus you have to be sayig there are certain amount of works one must do.

You can not have it both ways ken.

either we are saved by faith (a living faith which works) and this salvation is forever. (no faith = no salvation)

or we are saved by faith pus works, and there is a certain amounts of works which must be maintained, or salvation is lost.

no inbetween.

 

[elf3]

SALVA'TION, n. [L. salvo, to save.]
1. The act of saving; preservation from destruction, danger or great calamity.
2. Appropriately in theology, the redemption of man from the bondage of sin and liability to eternal death, and the conferring on him everlasting happiness. This is the great salvation.

Mark 16:16 (NKJV) He who believes and is baptized will be saved; but he who does not believe will be condemned.

Notice how Jesus says "but he who does not believe will be condemned". Now notice what Jesus doesn't say. Jesus does not say that those not baptized are condemned. Studying Scripture is not just reading what is there but seeing what isn't there.

From your response it seems you did not read my whole post. You saw something you didn't like so you attack that point.

You miss the whole Gospel of Christ for wanting to argue baptism as a means to salvation.

 

[Atwood]

I did not say there is a certain amount of works you have to do to be saved.
I said they have to be present in your walk in the faith, no showing in actions/works shows no salvation.

Kenneth, has anyone on here ever denied that?

It is irrelevant. We are talking about what you do to be saved -- not what results from salvation. Eph 2 is clear on this.

 

[kennethcadwell]

Clearly its not.. God did not send Paul to baptize but to preach the gospel...how could Paul separate the gospel from baptism if they was the same?

There are different positions in the church that we are each given to do, some to preach, some to teach, some to prophecy, some to administer to, and so on and so on.......

Paul was only commissioned to do the preaching, his co-workers ( fellow brothers and sisters in Christ ) that he sent before him, after him, and even came with him would be charged to carry out the other duties including baptism. Just because we have preachers now days and even then that performed all the duties, that does not mean nor was it always the standard to do that.
Paul followed the same standards as Jesus.
Jesus did the preaching and teaching, while His Apostles did the baptizing.
Paul followed that same standard by doing the preaching, and leaving the baptizing to the others....