Why do Atheists Bother?

[nl]

I can see how a person can take a scripture here and there and form this warped opinion, but if someone reads the whole Bible I don't believe that they can hold the view that God has not given freewill to mankind.

Mind, will and emotion are non-physical realities that continue to exist after the physical death of a human being. Otherwise, where would they go?

The human soul can be defined as the combination of mind, will and emotion. It may comprise more than that (perhaps you could add "personality") but I think that it includes at least those three elements: mind, will and emotion.

Soul and spirit are actually two separate entities in the Bible where body, soul and spirit seem to define the whole person.

 

[nl]

...The truth is it all comes down to a lack of evidence...

Lack of evidence has a common claim. From my POV, atheists (in general) seem to minimize the value of the evidence for God as much as they can and require a high standard of burden of proof upon Christians and other theists because they prefer a worldview where a god does not exist. If a god does not exist, then they are not required to comply, cooperate and obey a god who made them and thereby has a level of ownership claims upon them. Cycel, that may not be your particular situation but I think that the general case applies to at least some.

I don't have a primary source for it but even a prominent atheist has been quoted as saying something like: Life looks like it was intelligently designed (but it wasn't).

Evidence for supernatural power and design exists in the order and complexity observed in nature. Reason can look at the facts and assemble logic that supports notions of a Higher Being.

Proof of God will come after death when we see the Judgment Seat of Christ but then it will be too late for Saving Faith.

Shown below is a brief list of observations from nature which provide evidence of great order and complexity for which an unseen God is a credible explanation.

• Single cell life like an amoeba has a sophisticated level of complexity in structure and genetic code. Even bacteria and viruses have great complexity not yet produced in a test tube.

• The human body has multiple, simultaneous systems with coordinated components that must work together to serve a function. Isn't purposeful design by a god a better explanation for these marvels than alternative explanations?
  • Nervous System
  • Cardiovascular System
  • Respiratory System
  • Skeletal System
  • Muscular System
  • Digestive System
  • Endocrine System
  • Reproductive System
  • Immune System
  • Lymphatic System

• The universe is immense beyond known limits and finely tuned so that carbon-based life as we know it can exist (anthropic principle). Isn't God the best explanation for the universe and better than alternative explanations?

• Metaphysical realities like mind, will, emotion, truth, justice and morality show us the significant importance of realities that go beyond matter and heat-energy. Who else but God could have designed these?

We certainly have evidence of apparent design even if the preference of many is accidental origins.

Accidental origins is speculative and improbable at best. Continuing scientific discoveries of previously unknown complexities in nature just add to the improbabilities. At some point, the better explanation for "highly improbable" becomes "impossible without God".

I think that God is "by far" the best explanation for the order and complexities observed in nature.

Unfortunately, I also think that the strong preference and hope of many is that the explanation turns out to be anything except the God of the Bible. (I was once that way myself for a time as a young adult.)

Jesus and the Bible are other marvels to consider. Where else can you find Words and miracles and influence that are anything like those provided by Jesus and the Bible?

 

[nl]

You have not convinced me they are religions...

No, atheism is not a religion. It has no temples inhabited by monks, no trained priesthood, no sacred works, and no gods. The definition I gave above of religion fits Christianity perfectly, but atheism not at all...

Alternative definition from best-selling author Tim Keller in his book: The Reason for God: Religion is...a set of beliefs that explain what life is all about, who we are, and the most important things that human beings should spend their time doing....Broadly understood, faith in some view of the world and human nature informs everyone's life. Everyone lives and operates out of some narrative identity.

According to TK's definition, everyone has a religion.

The stakes have been high in the matter of the definition of religion. In more than a few situations, the definition of religion has controlled which viewpoints have freedom to be expressed and which have been restricted or forbidden.

 

[Cycel]

If we move the conversation ahead to contemporary times and cchat.com, then we have seen a declaration like this:

You are a Christian. I am an atheist.

If you were to say to me, "I'm an American." I'd respond with "I am a Canadian." Or, if you were to say you were a ball player I'd respond with the closest equivalent, "I'm a chess player, I don't play sports." On the other hand if you felt obliged to tell my you were a Christian I might respond with, "I grew up in the United Church." It is not a lie, I did have that beginning, but I might not tell you I am an atheist, not until I know you better. I have one close friend who I have never told that I am an atheist. He told me very early in our friendship that there are two topics friends never discus: religion and politics.

As far as identity goes I consider myself Canadian first, then perhaps Anglophone. I am thinking that being Christian may have a fairly significant impact on the way you live, but being an atheist has little bearing on my daily life. If I were a non-church going Christian I’d be living the same life style I am now. I don’t think anything would really change for me. If you asked what philosophy I live by, I’d probably say “the golden rule” and “live and let live.”

Some domains have already acted to limit the discussion of religion in the public square. If atheism and belief in evolution can escape being defined as a religion, then it makes it easier to proselytize these ideas in the public square without competition from competing ideas.

Interesting. I had never contemplated this. Though, honestly, evolution in my mind is strictly a science. It is not a religion and it is not atheistic. You might as well call astronomy a religion. I am not just saying this to be obstinate, that is truly what I think. Many Christians, as you know, adhere to evolution as well. So how could it be anti-God? Obviously though it does an end-run around the claims of Genesis. I would simply remind you that the creation story is a Bronze Age cosmology. It is not going to be in sync with any science.

 

[Kerry]

Spoken like a true atheist, good job. But, once you have experienced God as you have not. There is no doubt in your mind and you cannot see how people can say that He does not exist. An atheist can watch people kill their children and say "live and let live" but a christians see's that and say's how can you kill that innocent little baby. An atheist looks at homosexuality and say' s "live and let live" yet a christians looks and see's a person burning in hell and tries their best to tell them out of love and also has seen God's word where He has destroyed cities for homosexuality.

 

[hannahbeth1124]

Spoken like a true atheist, good job. But, once you have experienced God as you have not. There is no doubt in your mind and you cannot see how people can say that He does not exist. An atheist can watch people kill their children and say "live and let live" but a christians see's that and say's how can you kill that innocent little baby. An atheist looks at homosexuality and say' s "live and let live" yet a christians looks and see's a person burning in hell and tries their best to tell them out of love and also has seen God's word where He has destroyed cities for homosexuality.

Dude... You're setting us back like 200 years with this answer...

Atheists are not ALL immoral. And not ALL Christians look at a homosexual and think "Oh look, honey! I human torch!" Please try to refrain from speaking for "all Christians".

 

[Blain]

Dude... You're setting us back like 200 years with this answer...

Atheists are not ALL immoral. And not ALL Christians look at a homosexual and think "Oh look, honey! I human torch!" Please try to refrain from speaking for "all Christians".

lol I seriously laughed out loud with this answer hereXD Oh look honey a human torch lol. this is my first time in this thread but I can only assume due to the title that it is a war zone? has anyone launched the dragon yet?

 

[hannahbeth1124]

lol I seriously laughed out loud with this answer hereXD Oh look honey a human torch lol. this is my first time in this thread but I can only assume due to the title that it is a war zone? has anyone launched the dragon yet?

No we're still waiting for the "RELEASE THE KRAKEN!" Command. lol.

 

[Cycel]

Alternative definition from best-selling author Tim Keller in his book: The Reason for God: Religion is...a set of beliefs that explain what life is all about, who we are, and the most important things that human beings should spend their time doing....Broadly understood, faith in some view of the world and human nature informs everyone's life. Everyone lives and operates out of some narrative identity.

His definition fits Buddhism I think, but leaves out the most important points concerning Christianity. It is a poor definition for the latter. That Oxford Dictionary definition fits Christianity better.

According to TK's definition, everyone has a religion.

He is wrong. I have no religion. I think every religion has supernatural elements to it. That would be true also of Buddhism.

Try the following definition:

"religion can be defined as a relatively-bounded system of beliefs, symbols and practices that addresses the nature of existence, and in which communion with others and Otherness is lived as if it both takes in and spiritually transcends socially-grounded ontologies of time, space, embodiment and knowing." (Paul James and Peter Mandaville, 2010)

This doesn’t fit atheism or evolution at all, but it does fit nicely with both Christianity and Buddhism. Neither atheism nor evolution teach how one should live, nor do they explain what life is all about (we must infer that for ourselves).

My understanding of the universe and its origin comes from astronomy and astrophysics. I have no spiritual feelings regarding how it all got started, but I find the details immensely interesting. My thoughts on the origin of life is that it is most likely bio-chemical in nature and completely natural. I suspect life arises every time the proper conditions present themselves in the universe, but how common the necessary conditions are no one really knows. Those who think life is impossible without God are really only running on their own biases. Those who think life is everywhere throughout the universe are only guessing. We need more data to answer the question, and only science can provide that kind of information. Evolution seeks to explain what happened after life arose, but tells us nothing about the purpose of life – for that one needs philosophy or religion. What my atheism tells me is that I can’t rely upon supernatural explanations. If I want an understanding of hail, rainbows, earthquakes, or any other number of natural phenomena, I’d best avoid Bronze Age explanations.

 

[Blain]

No we're still waiting for the "RELEASE THE KRAKEN!" Command. lol.

I don't have time to go through over forty pages so Is the main thing basically attacks against atheists?

 

[Cycel]

Spoken like a true atheist, good job... An atheist can watch people kill their children and say "live and let live"...

Kerry, your reasoning has failed you -- again. A person who kills a child is not living by my code. Live and let live expressly means, Do Not Kill!

 

[Cycel]

I don't have time to go through over forty pages so Is the main thing basically attacks against atheists?

It is all over the place Blain. Feel free to jump in anywhere.

 

[Cycel]

The stakes have been high in the matter of the definition of religion. In more than a few situations, the definition of religion has controlled which viewpoints have freedom to be expressed and which have been restricted or forbidden.

I can't disregard this comment. Whether we are speaking of theocratic or secular dictatorships, it is true, power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely.

 

[Brainfreeze]

Evil is personified in Mara, the Buddhist Devil, who represents temptation, sin, and death. He is identified with Namuche, one of the wicked demons in Indian mythology​ <----( sound familiar )


Gautama Buddha, also known as Siddhārtha Gautama,[note 2] Shakyamuni,[note 3] or simply the Buddha, was a sage[3] on whose teachings Buddhism was founded.[web 1] He is believed to have lived and taught mostly in eastern India sometime between the sixth and fourth centuries BCE.[4][note 4]


Yahweh (/ˈjɑːhweɪ/, or often /ˈjɑːweɪ/ in English; Hebrew: יהוה‎), was the national god of the Iron Age kingdoms of Israel and Judah. The name may have originated as an epithet of the god El, head of the Bronze Age Canaanite pantheon ("El who is present, who makes himself manifest"),[1]:94–95 and appears to have been unique to Israel and Judah,[2]:184 although Yahweh may have been worshiped south of the Dead Sea at least three centuries before the emergence of Israel (the Kenite hypothesis). The earliest reference to a deity called "Yahweh" appears in Egyptian texts of the 13th century BC that place him among the Shasu-Bedu of southern Transjordan.[3]




Excavations in Jerusalem in 1979–80 by Gabriel Barkay turned up two amulets dating from the late seventh century BC.1 They were found in the fourth of several burial caves he discovered on an escarpment known as Ketef Hinnom, which overlooks the Hinnom Valley (Gehenna) just opposite Mt. Zion. Each amulet contained a rolled-up sheet of silver which, when unrolled, revealed the Priestly Benediction inscribed on them. The exact Hebrew words (translated into English) are:

YAHWEH was here before buddha and will be here after that deity Cycel,

 

[Blain]

Spoken like a true atheist, good job. But, once you have experienced God as you have not. There is no doubt in your mind and you cannot see how people can say that He does not exist. An atheist can watch people kill their children and say "live and let live" but a christians see's that and say's how can you kill that innocent little baby. An atheist looks at homosexuality and say' s "live and let live" yet a christians looks and see's a person burning in hell and tries their best to tell them out of love and also has seen God's word where He has destroyed cities for homosexuality.

this is not a Christian response at all. you know I have seen atheists who act more Christ like than a lot of Christians

 

[Brainfreeze]

this is not a Christian response at all. you know I have seen atheists who act more Christ like than a lot of Christians

Ok, so you came to this thread to promote Christianity or atheist perspective ? I'm confused...

 

[Blain]

Ok, so you came to this thread to promote Christianity or atheist perspective ? I'm confused...

No I came here because of a funny post I saw but then saw some of the posts here and decided to jump in. See cycle is an atheist and I never once have seen him attack a person but I have seen plenty of ppl who say they are Christians attack him and other atheists.

We are Christians so we have no excuse for mocking attacking or being mean to others but lots of Christians do this very thing and this greatly bugs me. the mark of a true Christian is not how long they have been one or they knowledge of the scriptures not even how many ppl they have saved. The mark of a true Christian is love. I have been on both sides of the coin the saved and unsaved and Christians are seen as hypocrites, judgmental, self righteous and many more things and I can understand why we are seen this way.

 

[Kerry]

So were to just lay back and eat grapes?

 

[Blain]

So were to just lay back and eat grapes?

You are a Christian yes? and we Christians are called to love yes? if a Christian is to teach they do so in a Christ like manner not force their teachings on ppl. if they debate they are to do so in a Christlike manner and in love not attack or mock. a mature Christian knows to be love, to see out of love and act and speak out of love. a person who is not that mature in Christ shouldn't be held that accountable as they are still weak in faith but if you claim to be a mature Christian then you have no excuse for attacking mocking and being mean tto others. Now I don't know how long you have been saved but I am a babe only two years and even I know this

 

[Kerry]

You are a Christian yes? and we Christians are called to love yes? if a Christian is to teach they do so in a Christ like manner not force their teachings on ppl. if they debate they are to do so in a Christlike manner and in love not attack or mock. a mature Christian knows to be love, to see out of love and act and speak out of love. a person who is not that mature in Christ shouldn't be held that accountable as they are still weak in faith but if you claim to be a mature Christian then you have no excuse for attacking mocking and being mean tto others. Now I don't know how long you have been saved but I am a babe only two years and even I know this

Yes God is love and we are to lay back and watch our wife get raped and say I love you and Jesus loves you. We are to sit back and watch our government make drugs legal and Homosexual marriage and say Jesus loves you it's okay by His grace. I'm supposed to watch a man enter my home and kill my children because guns kill people and say that's okay I'm Christian and you can walk all over me. That is not biblical nor is it from God. God killed people and destroyed cities and nations OT and NT.

You need to find that the Lord your Gods is a jealous God and if we put god's or self before Him, He acts just like a jealous husband and kills and destroys. Read the bible, yet He is long suffering and is tolerant to a point. What do you think the trib is about. It is God saying enough is enough and I can't wait for it. I won't be here but I can't wait, we are supposed to pray Come Lord Come.