Tithe, does the bible command it for the Christians?

[StandingFirmInChrist]

No Jesus was not commending the woman for giving all of her money to thieves. He was commended her because she still gave all that she had even though living in poverty. She loved our Lord and so still gave out of that love.
What the preachers then do with that money, rather they would not take it from somebody in her situation, give her more back in return to help her out, or the misuse it and pocket it for themselves falls on them not on the giver.
If we give out of love we still do our part, if they misuse the funds that will be accounted to them at judgment.

Another misuse of bible scripture used by money preachers are, He who preaches the gospel should live by the gospel.
This scripture is not talking about money as in a salary. It is saying if you preach the word, you should live as it says to live in love, forgiveness, and mercy.

concerning the bolded above...

Many times, I hear the argument that we are to “Give your pastor God’s tithe. What the pastor does with it is between him and God. You have done your part.”


Oh really? What if the pastor used that money on himself? Putting fuel in his Jaguar? or Paying his monthly payment for a loan he had taken out?


Have you truly given the money to God? No! You foolishly gave it to your pastor, who spent it on his own self.


Try that with your landlord, or with the company that has a lien on your vehicle. Or the company that provides your electricity for your house. Tell them you gave the payment to your neighbor. The month’s debt now belongs to your neighbor and not you. After all, you paid the debt. What your neighbor did with the money is between your creditor and him, not you.


See how that flies. You may be walking next month. You may be sitting in the dark with no power. You may be looking for a new house..


But there is good news! You don’t owe God that 10% tithe. That’s right… God never commanded you to tithe your money. He said in His Word that the tithes He commanded were agricultural products that were to be eaten.


Best to pay your debts and, meet your responsibilities. Then, if you have money left over and want to “give it to God,” do so. Give it to a hungry person. To a homeless person. To a person in need. Don’t foolishly give it to a leader who resorts to telling lies in order to garner it. God is not pleased with that type of giving.


Proverbs 22:16 He that oppresseth the poor to increase his riches, and he that giveth to the rich, shall surely come to want.

 

[Jon4TheCross]

The Levitical priesthood was a pattern of the one and only priesthood which has always existed by the fact that the only high priest with no beginning has always existed. Tithe was given to all of the Levites (chosen ones without access to the Holy of Holies) from the other 11 tribes (the world). Aaron and his sons were chosen to be the high priesthood (Christians with access to the Holy of Holies). The Levites did tithe ten percent to Aaron and his sons. Now that we are joint heirs with Christ, and have access to the Holy of Holies, we are called Christians and are members of the eternal high priesthood. A Christian without access to the Holy of Holies can tithe to a Christian with access to the Holy of Holies (but that is confusion, which is not from God and the kingdom of Heaven). This is why we are called into the common wealth of Israel being the high priesthood, because the tithe is simply there to provide our earthen vessels with tools to help other earthen vessels, and to save souls, etc. The world isn't going to want to tithe to Christians I think for now, because they aren't doing a very good job interceding for the world, or showing a good example. Then again, the world also doesn't understand that if we do that which we don't want to do, it's not us who does it, but the sin in the flesh. I believe if the priesthood really took some serious baby steps in trying to destroy the sin in the flesh/earthen vessel (at least most of it, cause God showed us how to do it by following Jesus), then maybe the world might see a real difference that is coupled with power.

DC talk has on one of their songs a quote "the biggest single cause of atheism in the world today is Christians who acknowledge Jesus with their lips, then walk out the door and deny him with their lifestyle. This is what an unbelieving world simply finds, unbelievable."

 

[Yet]

No Jesus was not commending the woman for giving all of her money to thieves. He was commended her because she still gave all that she had even though living in poverty. She loved our Lord and so still gave out of that love.
What the preachers then do with that money, rather they would not take it from somebody in her situation, give her more back in return to help her out, or the misuse it and pocket it for themselves falls on them not on the giver.
If we give out of love we still do our part, if they misuse the funds that will be accounted to them at judgment.

Another misuse of bible scripture used by money preachers are, He who preaches the gospel should live by the gospel.
This scripture is not talking about money as in a salary. It is saying if you preach the word, you should live as it says to live in love, forgiveness, and mercy.

I still can't help believing that she was not commended for giving everything away, even out of love, no more than if a widow today would give all her SS check to the local church and then the Spirit would whisper to her 'well done my faithful child. Give next months check to these thieves as well.' Never! Not in a million years. If anything He would be telling her 'I see your love for Me but I'm not asking you to give your check over to a system that shouldn't be accepting it from you in the first place. And then when they get it from you, they pocket it'.
So I'll go with you on the commendation for her love, if indeed that was her only motivation . But I sence that she was brainwashed by the religious wolves of her day, even as today, and gave out of constraint and fear, more than just simple love, for, again, I submit that she had to know that the widows and the poor were exempt from giving that which they had not, but we're to be cared for.
So I contend that when Jesus said to the flesh hungry wolves 'she gave more than you all, for she gave of her living', He was throwing a left hook at their pompous snouts in total rebuke of them to even dare to rob a poor widow. I believe they got the message...loud and clear, for they knew from Old Testament scripture as well, that the poor were to be cared for, not robbed.

 

[StandingFirmInChrist]

The Levitical priesthood was a pattern of the one and only priesthood which has always existed by the fact that the only high priest with no beginning has always existed. Tithe was given to all of the Levites (chosen ones without access to the Holy of Holies) from the other 11 tribes (the world). Aaron and his sons were chosen to be the high priesthood (Christians with access to the Holy of Holies). The Levites did tithe ten percent to Aaron and his sons. Now that we are joint heirs with Christ, and have access to the Holy of Holies, we are called Christians and are members of the eternal high priesthood. A Christian without access to the Holy of Holies can tithe to a Christian with access to the Holy of Holies (but that is confusion, which is not from God and the kingdom of Heaven). This is why we are called into the common wealth of Israel being the high priesthood, because the tithe is simply there to provide our earthen vessels with tools to help other earthen vessels, and to save souls, etc. The world isn't going to want to tithe to Christians I think for now, because they aren't doing a very good job interceding for the world, or showing a good example. Then again, the world also doesn't understand that if we do that which we don't want to do, it's not us who does it, but the sin in the flesh. I believe if the priesthood really took some serious baby steps in trying to destroy the sin in the flesh/earthen vessel (at least most of it, cause God showed us how to do it by following Jesus), then maybe the world might see a real difference that is coupled with power.

DC talk has on one of their songs a quote "the biggest single cause of atheism in the world today is Christians who acknowledge Jesus with their lips, then walk out the door and deny him with their lifestyle. This is what an unbelieving world simply finds, unbelievable."

The Bible says that we are a royal priesthood, not a high priesthood. We are all kings and priests under one High Priest Jesus Christ.

The Apostle Peter wrote that we are a royal priesthood in AD 60. At that time, the sons of Levi were still receiving the tithes as the Law commanded they take tithes. The Church had no claim to tithes at that time in history. Nor do they have a claim on the tithes today.

Psalm 147:19-20 reveals that no other nation was given the laws that were given to Israel. The tithe command was for the children of Israel. Lev. 27:30-34. It was never given to the Church. Acts 15:5,10,24,28-29; 21:23-25.

 

[newbirth]

Many denomanitions teach we are to tithe. Does the church of our Lord teach this?

In the Old Testament they were commanded to give 10% that equaled to sometimes 23-25% they were also fined 20% if they didnt make the 10%. The good thing was you were killed like not keeping the Sabath.

1 Cor. 16:1,2 teaches us to give on the first day of the week as we been prospered.

The bible teches if we are trying to hold on the Old Law we have fallen from Grace Gla. 5:4

Abraham gave the first tithe to Melchizedek the high priest of the Most High God which was later instituted in the Mosaic Law....but it was his offering of Isaac in faith to God which represented giving all that he had...is the offering of faith...which is what is required of the believer...everything that we have belongs to God and God has given us all things....as a result everything should be equal among the brethren...

[SUP]32 [/SUP]And the multitude of them that believed were of one heart and of one soul: neither said any of them that ought of the things which he possessed was his own; but they had all things common.
[SUP]33 [/SUP]And with great power gave the apostles witness of the resurrection of the Lord Jesus: and great grace was upon them all.
[SUP]34 [/SUP]Neither was there any among them that lacked: for as many as were possessors of lands or houses sold them, and brought the prices of the things that were sold,
[SUP]35 [/SUP]And laid them down at the apostles' feet: and distribution was made unto every man according as he had need.

 

[StandingFirmInChrist]

Abram's tithe was not of his own riches, his own income. He promised God that he would not claim any of the spoils as his own property.

 

[newbirth]

The Bible says that we are a royal priesthood, not a high priesthood. We are all kings and priests under one High Priest Jesus Christ.

The Apostle Peter wrote that we are a royal priesthood in AD 60. At that time, the sons of Levi were still receiving the tithes as the Law commanded they take tithes. The Church had no claim to tithes at that time in history. Nor do they have a claim on the tithes today.

Psalm 147:19-20 reveals that no other nation was given the laws that were given to Israel. The tithe command was for the children of Israel. Lev. 27:30-34. It was never given to the Church. Acts 15:5,10,24,28-29; 21:23-25.

NT scripture does not promote tithing but...1 Timothy 5:18
For the scripture saith, thou shalt not muzzle the ox that treadeth out the corn. And, The labourer is worthy of his reward.


[SUP]25 [/SUP]But now I go unto Jerusalem to minister unto the saints.
[SUP]26 [/SUP]For it hath pleased them of Macedonia and Achaia to make a certain contribution for the poor saints which are at Jerusalem.
[SUP]27 [/SUP]It hath pleased them verily; and their debtors they are. For if the Gentiles have been made partakers of their spiritual things, their duty is also to minister unto them in carnal things.

[SUP]28 [/SUP]When therefore I have performed this, and have sealed to them this fruit, I will come by you into Spain.

 

[newbirth]

Abram's tithe was not of his own riches, his own income. He promised God that he would not claim any of the spoils as his own property.

the spoils of war belong to the victor

 

[StandingFirmInChrist]

the spoils of war belong to the victor

not in Abram's case. He promised God he would not take any unto himself. Do you believe he promised God one thing, but did another? Oy!

Scripture proves he did not claim any of those spoils as his own property.

 

[newbirth]

not in Abram's case. He promised God he would not take any unto himself. Do you believe he promised God one thing, but did another? Oy!

Scripture proves he did not claim any of those spoils as his own property.

he had already given tithe when he spoke to the king of sodom
[SUP]18 [/SUP]And Melchizedek king of Salem brought forth bread and wine: and he was the priest of the most high God.
[SUP]19 [/SUP]And he blessed him, and said, Blessed be Abram of the most high God, possessor of heaven and earth:
[SUP]20 [/SUP]And blessed be the most high God, which hath delivered thine enemies into thy hand. And he gave him tithes of all.

[SUP]21 [/SUP]And the king of Sodom said unto Abram, Give me the persons, and take the goods to thyself.
[SUP]22 [/SUP]And Abram said to the king of Sodom, I have lift up mine hand unto the Lord, the most high God, the possessor of heaven and earth,
[SUP]23 [/SUP]That I will not take from a thread even to a shoelatchet, and that I will not take any thing that is thine, lest thou shouldest say, I have made Abram rich:

 

[Stephen63]

Sorry Stephen, but 1 Corinthians 9 is not about leadership in the local assembly. Read it again. Paul was speaking about Apostles, those who were separater from the local assembly to go out into the world preaching the Gospel.

Paul had already told the Churches at Ephesus and Thessalonika that they were to follow his example and work with their hands earning their living and enough to support the weak as well. He would not have been telling the stationary ministers the opposite of what he told previous Churches.

[SUP]13 [/SUP]Do ye not know that they which minister about holy things live of the things of the temple? and they which wait at the altar are partakers with the altar? [SUP]14 [/SUP]Even so hath the Lord ordained that they which preach the gospel should live of the gospel.

"They" of v13 are all of the Levites..... not just the priests.
"They" of v14 are all of the ministers of the Gospel..... not just the Apostles. Otherwise a distinction would have been made of who can, & who can't.

 

[Jon4TheCross]

joint heirs with Christ? yeah, we have access to the holy of holies... sorry if you don't.... hmmm hit the reply button to the one who said we were not a high priesthood... not replying to anyone else.

 

[Kerry]

not in Abram's case. He promised God he would not take any unto himself. Do you believe he promised God one thing, but did another? Oy!

Scripture proves he did not claim any of those spoils as his own property.

But he did from Pharaoh and he did take from other kings.

 

[Kerry]

I take it that Stand don't go to church and if does, he relies on others to pay for it.

 

[StandingFirmInChrist]

"They" of v13 are all of the Levites..... not just the priests.
"They" of v14 are all of the ministers of the Gospel..... not just the Apostles. Otherwise a distinction would have been made of who can, & who can't.

wrong! Do a word search through the Bible. Interesting fact, all cases where the Gospel is preached or being commanded to preach, it is of ambulatory ministers, not stationaries. The Church has already heard the Gospel and believed it. The preaching of the Gospel is for those sent out into the world. How shall they hear except one be sent? Jesus went about preaching. How beautiful on the mountains are the feet of him who brings good news. Jesus sents out the 70 preaching the Gospel. They went, they came, etc. all through Scripture, it was those who were traveling who were responsible for preaching the Gospel. Not the responsibility of stationary pastors.

 

[StandingFirmInChrist]

I take it that Stand don't go to church and if does, he relies on others to pay for it.

excuse me? Did I say that I was against one giving of one's own choice? No! I did not!

i am not against giving voluntarily. However, I am against lying pastors or preachers that preach or teach that God requires me to tithe 10% of my money to the Church.

 

[Kerry]

excuse me? Did I say that I was against one giving of one's own choice? No! I did not!

i am not against giving voluntarily. However, I am against lying pastors or preachers that preach or teach that God requires me to tithe 10% of my money to the Church.

Well you said we should only give to traveling preachers, the Pastor of church is not a traveling preacher.

 

[StandingFirmInChrist]

Well you said we should only give to traveling preachers, the Pastor of church is not a traveling preacher.

That is not what I said at all!

in post #81, I was saying people should not think they are giving money to
God when the money is actually going to a deceitful pastor. Giving to the needy in one's own neighborhood is more honorable than giving to a thieving pastor.


In post #80, I pointed out the fact that the Bible tells the ministers of the local assembly that they ought to follow Paul's example and work with their hands to support themselves and the weak.

If one wants to give an honest, hard-working pastor a love offering, there is nothing wrong with that.

 

[Yet]

The precedent, I submit, that a 'pastor' is wrong if it denotes what we define today as the 'pastor'. Search the word. The single 'pastor' ruling over a congregation cannot be found in His word. So let's for once and for all, drop it. Pu-lease!

 

[StandingFirmInChrist]

"They" of v13 are all of the Levites..... not just the priests.
"They" of v14 are all of the ministers of the Gospel..... not just the Apostles. Otherwise a distinction would have been made of who can, & who can't.

Again, you are wrong.

I encourage you do do a word search on preaching the Gospel in the Word of God.

When the Gospel is preached in the Word, it is always by traveling ministry, not by stationary ministry.

Over and over in the Word we see it. Jesus went about preaching the Gospel... Jesus went from city to city preaching the Gospel. The Apostles were told to go into the world and preach the Gospel, How shall they hear except one be sent? How beautiful upon the mountains are the feet of him who brings good news, etc..

The Apostle Paul said he would not preach the Gospel where the foundation had already been laid. And why not? Because there is no need to lay the foundation again once it has been laid. Time to build the house upon the foundation.

That's where the stationary ministers come in, they feed the flock, not with the Gospel, but with the milk of the Word, with the full meat. Equipping them so that they too can go out of the Church and preach the Gospel in a lost and dying world.