Many people bicker over this topic. This is not my intention so whatever comes out in the thread after my question, is on you and you alone. I am just learning myself, so be kind. You got to learn too..
I've grown up being taught baptism was a public profession of faith, yes. Sorta like it being an outward showing of what happened on the inside when we invite Jesus into our lives. So on so forth. But I've noticed something weird. My one question is where at in the bible do we come to this conclusion that it is what Christianity teaches baptism to be? Where is baptism said to be just a "symbol"?
Maybe I'm stupid not seeing it??
Hi, JesusMyOnly.
While discussing the topic of baptism, Paul wrote:
Romans chapter 6
[1] What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound?
[2] God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?
[3] Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?
[4] Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
[5] For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:
[6] Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.
[7] For he that is dead is freed from sin.
[8] Now if we be dead with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with him:
[9] Knowing that Christ being raised from the dead dieth no more; death hath no more dominion over him.
[10] For in that he died, he died unto sin once: but in that he liveth, he liveth unto God.
[11] Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord.
[12] Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, that ye should obey it in the lusts thereof.
[13] Neither yield ye your members as instruments of unrighteousness unto sin: but yield yourselves unto God, as those that are alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness unto God.
[14] For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.
[15] What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid.
[16] Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?
[17] But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin, but ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you.
[18] Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness.
The key to baptism, in my estimation, is found in verse 17 where Paul writes "but ye have obeyed FROM THE HEART that form of doctrine which was delivered you". IOW, if somebody hasn't truly determined to have their "old man (no, not their father or their husband...lol) crucified" (Romans 6:6) and then ceremonially "buried with Christ in baptism" (Romans 6:4) in order to truly then be "raised up in newness of life" (Romans 6:4), then they basically went into the water as a dry sinner and arose from the same as a wet sinner. I mean, think of the rite of circumcision in the Old Testament. There were many people who had been circumcised OUTWARDLY, yet they had never effectively dealt with "the foreskins of THEIR HEARTS":
"Circumcise therefore the foreskin of your heart, and be no more stiffnecked." (Deuteronomy 10:16)
"Circumcise yourselves to the LORD, and take away the foreskins of your heart, ye men of Judah and inhabitants of Jerusalem: lest my fury come forth like fire, and burn that none can quench it, because of the evil of your doings." (Jeremiah 4:4)
"Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will punish all them which are circumcised with the uncircumcised; Egypt, and Judah, and Edom, and the children of Ammon, and Moab, and all that are in the utmost corners, that dwell in the wilderness: for all these nations are uncircumcised, and all the house of Israel are uncircumcised in the heart." (Jeremiah 9:25-26)
"To whom shall I speak, and give warning, that they may hear? behold, their ear is uncircumcised, and they cannot hearken: behold, the word of the LORD is unto them a reproach; they have no delight in it." (Jeremiah 6:10)
All of the above passages of scripture pertain to those who had been CIRCUMCISED OUTWARDLY IN THE FORESKINS OF THEIR FLESH, yet they were either UNCIRCUMCISED IN THEIR HEARTS OR THEIR EARS...OR BOTH. Yes, both Paul and Stephen more than likely had such passages as these in mind when they wrote/said the following:
"For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh: But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God." (Romans 2:28-29)
"Ye stiffnecked and uncircumcised in heart and ears, ye do always resist the Holy Ghost: as your fathers did, so do ye." (Acts 7:51)
Again, as with the Old Testament passages that I cited, such things were being written/spoken in regard to those who had been CIRCUMCISED OUTWARDLY IN THE FORESKIN OF THEIR FLESH, but were yet UNCIRCUMCISED INWARDLY IN THEIR HEARTS AND/OR EARS.
With such in mind, please consider the following:
Romans chapter 4
[5] But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.
[6] Even as David also describeth the blessedness of the man, unto whom God imputeth righteousness without works,
[7] Saying, Blessed are they whose iniquities are forgiven, and whose sins are covered.
[8] Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not impute sin.
[9] Cometh this blessedness then upon the circumcision only, or upon the uncircumcision also? for we say that faith was reckoned to Abraham for righteousness.
[10] How was it then reckoned? when he was in circumcision, or in uncircumcision? Not in circumcision, but in uncircumcision.
[11] And he received the sign of circumcision, a seal of the righteousness of the faith which he had yet being uncircumcised: that he might be the father of all them that believe, though they be not circumcised; that righteousness might be imputed unto them also:
[12] And the father of circumcision to them who are not of the circumcision only, but who also walk in the steps of that faith of our father Abraham, which he had being yet uncircumcised.
Here, Paul reminds his readers that Abraham's faith was imputed unto him for righteousness long before he ever "received
THE SIGN of circumcision" (Romans 4:11). IOW, Abraham's faith was actually imputed unto him for righteousness while he was yet UNCIRCUMCISED OUTWARDLY and when he finally was CIRCUMCISED OUTWARDLY, the same only served as "
A SEAL of the righteousness of the faith which he had yet being uncircumcised" (Romans 4:11). In relation to the same, we read:
"And he believed in the LORD; and he counted it to him for righteousness." (Genesis 15:6)
Here is where Abraham's faith was "counted to him for righteousness"...AND THIS OCCURRED AT LEAST 13 YEARS BEFORE ABRAHAM WAS CIRCUMCISED OUTWARDLY. How do we know this to be true? Well, Abraham was 86 years old when Ishmael was born to him of the bondwoman Hagar (Genesis 16:16) and the covenant of circumcision wasn't given to Abraham UNTIL HE WAS 99 YEARS OLD OR UNTIL 13 YEARS LATER (Genesis 17:1-14).
Anyhow, my point is that Abraham's faith was accounted or imputed unto him for righteousness because he believed in the LORD or because HIS HEART WAS CIRCUMCISED and it wasn't until at least 13 years later that "he received
THE SIGN of circumcision,
A SEAL of the righteousness of the faith which he had yet being uncircumcised" (Romans 4:11). IOW, his OUTWARD CIRCUMCISION was merely "a sign" or "a seal" or "a token" of the INWARD CIRCUMCISION OF HIS HEART WHICH PRECEDED HIS OUTWARD CIRCUMCISION...and it's basically the same exact principle with "baptism". Again, if one hasn't truly "OBEYED FROM THE HEART that form of doctrine that was delivered unto them" (Romans 6:17), then an OUTWARD BAPTISM is of no significance whatsoever. IOW, just like many who had been OUTWARDLY CIRCUMCISED were still UNCIRCUMCISED IN BOTH HEART AND EARS, so, too, can those who have been OUTWARDLY BAPTIZED still be living for themselves in that they've never truly been "crucified with Christ" and "buried with Him in baptism" IN THEIR HEARTS.
Hopefully, this helps.
