THE GREAT DEBATE...LAW AND GRACE

[Brainfreeze]

Here is the thing though did our Lord Jesus say that all sins will be forgiven of men, except for blasphemy of the Holy Spirit ? We as people have no right to judge others on rather they are saved or not, as only the Lord knows where our hearts truly stand. A murderer can be just as saved if they repented and asked for forgiveness of their sin, as a person who was just a liar all their life then repent and asked for forgiveness.
Then walked the rest of their life in Christ ways with the Holy Spirit helping them to get stronger in areas they are weak.

No, once in the Spirit.. Your no longer a thief, murderer, or nothing ... We are Gods children.. The old is gone, the new has come.. but we can't go on living sinful lives, saying that we still live in the flesh and of the world... Say we believe and Yahshua forgives me and everything's ok, no, there will be drastic changes... We won't do unrighteous things, we can't go snatch some women's purse give half to the church, smile, say amen ! I'm saved ! Go right back out, and do whatever we want ... Just doesn't work, either we live in the flesh and the lust of it, or the Spirit and the fruits of it..

 

[Mitspa]

scripture says you have to do the good...you follow the Spirit....and do what the Spirit say...God's Spirit does not make you a puppet....scripture says ...
Romans 8:13
For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.

The scriptures teach that if you walk in the Spirit...the fruit of that will be goodness...you got it backwards!

 

[newbirth]

If you really "walked in the Spirit" you would know well, why I am trying to set people free from the "letter"... So you can go on and on...I don't think no one is buying your claims? I know from your doctrine and attitude towards the truth that impossible for you to be spiritual.

so you are Christ now...Christ already freed us from the letter....I am not selling any claims I post scripture...refute the scripture I post...

why I am trying to set people free

if that is not self I don't know what is....

 

[kennethcadwell]

First that was before He died on the Cross and paid for all our sins...Now we forgive because we have been forgiven...cant you see the HUGE difference? I dare anyone to sincerely pray and ask God if what Im teaching is the truth.

What He taught was for all of us to obey and follow.
His teachings during the 3 1/2 years that His earthly ministry took place were not done away with when He was crucified on the cross. He came to give the instructions on how we are to walk under the new covenant, and one of those teachings was to forgive others or you will not be forgiven of yours.
You have to repent of your sins confessing for forgiveness, and being baptized before those sins are covered by His blood. They are not just immediately covered without doing any of those things. If so then all people would be automatically forgiven and get salvation which is not the case. It is amazing how people want to cancel out His new covenant teachings in His earthly ministry as done away with at the cross. The old covenant mosaic laws was done away with at the cross, not His teachings during His earthly ministry.

 

[Mitspa]

so you are Christ now...Christ already freed us from the letter....I am not selling any claims I post scripture...refute the scripture I post... if that is not self I don't know what is....

lol your funny....set them free from the written code of the law... By showing them the truth...the truth shall set you free too, if you would listen and stop trying to teach others about things you don't understand.

 

[kennethcadwell]

No, once in the Spirit.. Your no longer a thief, murderer, or nothing ... We are Gods children.. The old is gone, the new has come.. but we can't go on living sinful lives, saying that we still live in the flesh and of the world... Say we believe and Yahshua forgives me and everything's ok, no, there will be drastic changes... We won't do unrighteous things, we can't go snatch some women's purse give half to the church, smile, say amen ! I'm saved ! Go right back out, and do whatever we want ... Just doesn't work, either we live in the flesh and the lust of it, or the Spirit and the fruits of it..

Yes I know that, but yet some say that you can because sin can no longer be imputed on a believer. Yet the scriptures say all over that if you continue, return, or take part in anothers sin then you make yourself impure again from sin. That can not be the case if like they say sin can not be imputed on us any more. We are to walk in the Spirit, but like the scriptures also show with that is that we are not forced, free will taken away, or automatically do walk that way. This is where blasphemy of the Holy Spirit comes into play. A direct defying of following His guidance and help, to continue to walk the way that person wants to continue to do.

 

[newbirth]

The scriptures teach that if you walk in the Spirit...the fruit of that will be goodness...you got it backwards!

read post#1670....you just repeat what I post previously and disagree with me....

Can you show how you determine it is backwards ...I comment and post a scripture....the scripture cannot be wrong ...show what part of the comment is contrary to scripture and post your scripture to support your claim....

this is the original post
scripture says you have to do the good...you follow the Spirit....and do what the Spirit say...God's Spirit does not make you a puppet....scripture says ...
Romans 8:13
For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.

 

[Brainfreeze]

Yes I know that, but yet some say that you can because sin can no longer be imputed on a believer. Yet the scriptures say all over that if you continue, return, or take part in anothers sin then you make yourself impure again from sin. That can not be the case if like they say sin can not be imputed on us any more. We are to walk in the Spirit, but like the scriptures also show with that is that we are not forced, free will taken away, or automatically do walk that way. This is where blasphemy of the Holy Spirit comes into play. A direct defying of following His guidance and help, to continue to walk the way that person wants to continue to do.

I'd agree, some think magic " deception " is of God and is ok to do, and preach.... " shrugs " .. Mary Magdalen was a prostitute, who earned her living through such... Once coming to Christ, she confessed, repented " turned away " and let God take care of her.. She followed Christ literally.. No Holy Ghost yet.. The rules still apply.. we should be turning away from the world and the lust of it .. and loving, bringing peace, hope, charity, help, and all what the Spirit guides us to do..

 

[newbirth]

lol your funny....set them free from the written code of the law... By showing them the truth...the truth shall set you free too, if you would listen and stop trying to teach others about things you don't understand.

you posted you want to set them free...you are not the truth....you made a simple error ...we all do......humility would admit the error.....pride tries to cover it up by highlighting someone else’s fault....

Originally Posted by Mitspa

If you really "walked in the Spirit" you would know well, why I am trying to set people free from the "letter"... So you can go on and on...I don't think no one is buying your claims? I know from your doctrine and attitude towards the truth that impossible for you to be spiritual.

 

[kennethcadwell]

I'd agree, some think magic " deception " is of God and is ok to do, and preach.... " shrugs " .. Mary Magdalen was a prostitute, who earned her living through such... Once coming to Christ, she confessed, repented " turned away " and let God take care of her.. She followed Christ literally.. No Holy Ghost yet.. The rules still apply.. we should be turning away from the world and the lust of it .. and loving, bringing peace, hope, charity, help, and all what the Spirit guides us to do..

This right here that I highlighted is a false teaching of the Catholic church, for there is absolutely no scriptures that point to Mary Magdalene being a prostitute. It says Jesus healed her of seven demons

Luke 8:2
And certain women, which had been healed of evil spirits and infirmities, Mary called Magdalene, out of whom went seven devils,
The Catholic church tried tying her to the woman caught in adultery in John 8, but there is absolutely no scriptural evidence that places her as this woman or shows that Mary Magdalene was a prostitute. This was their attempt to disgrace and disqualify her as a person in a leadership role as other historic church documents place her as.

 

[Brainfreeze]

This right here that I highlighted is a false teaching of the Catholic church, for there is absolutely no scriptures that point to Mary Magdalene being a prostitute. It says Jesus healed her of seven demons

Luke 8:2
And certain women, which had been healed of evil spirits and infirmities, Mary called Magdalene, out of whom went seven devils,
The Catholic church tried tying her to the woman caught in adultery in John 8, but there is absolutely no scriptural evidence that places her as this woman or shows that Mary Magdalene was a prostitute. This was their attempt to disgrace and disqualify her as a person in a leadership role as other historic church documents place her as.

Thank you for the correction... My point remains the same.. Demons then.. She lived a demonic lifestyle.. Once freed she didn't go back, we can't live against God " with the world " and say we are for God " in the Holy Spirit " .. We can't be drug dealers by profession or white collar criminals .. Go read the Bible with our families, say amen at the kitchen table, go back to work make more inside deals... and talk about how full of the Spirit we are..

 

[kennethcadwell]

Thank you for the correction... My point remains the same.. Demons then.. She lived a demonic lifestyle.. Once freed she didn't go back, we can't live against God " with the world " and say we are for God " in the Holy Spirit " .. We can't be drug dealers by profession or white collar criminals .. Go read the Bible with our families, say amen at the kitchen table, go back to work make more inside deals... and talk about how full of the Spirit we are..

This is absolutely true, which is why I am adamant about talking about the warnings the bible gives because I have seen some on here say they can continue to sin because it is not imputed on them any more. And I have been to some churches and talked to others who have been taught they can live however they want and still be saved. This is totally against what scripture teaches.

 

[Mitspa]

you posted you want to set them free...you are not the truth....you made a simple error ...we all do......humility would admit the error.....pride tries to cover it up by highlighting someone else’s fault....

LOl you are funny! I laugh almost everytime I read one of your post to me here is my EXACT words "I am trying to set people free from the "letter"..." Now if you understand how that term is used in the New Testament you would understand that's the written code of the law...also known as legalism

 

[Brainfreeze]

What He taught was for all of us to obey and follow.
His teachings during the 3 1/2 years that His earthly ministry took place were not done away with when He was crucified on the cross. He came to give the instructions on how we are to walk under the new covenant, and one of those teachings was to forgive others or you will not be forgiven of yours.
You have to repent of your sins confessing for forgiveness, and being baptized before those sins are covered by His blood. They are not just immediately covered without doing any of those things. If so then all people would be automatically forgiven and get salvation which is not the case. It is amazing how people want to cancel out His new covenant teachings in His earthly ministry as done away with at the cross. The old covenant mosaic laws was done away with at the cross, not His teachings during His earthly ministry.

Kenneth, we have to remember, they were all babes in Christ.. He was teaching flesh and Spirit at the same time in those 3 1/2 years.. They were all of flesh, they weren't ready for Spiritual teachings... After the Messiahs death and resurrection, in comes Holy Ghost..It hadn't come until the day of Pentecost .. He taught the flesh... because they were all in flesh, but left Spiritual in His teaching that they might understand it when the Holy Ghost was upon them..we all start this way in " flesh/with law " should die to flesh be reborn in to " Holy Ghost/ no law "

 

[StandingFirmInChrist]

Ephesians 1:13 (KJV) 13 In whom ye also [trusted], after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,


Ephesians 1:14 (KJV) 14 Which is the earnest of your inheritance until ye decide to walk away or no longer want to believe, unto the praise of his glory.

oh, wait... wrong Bible. Let me get the right one....

Ephesians 1:13 (KJV) 13 In whom ye also [trusted], after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,


Ephesians 1:14 (KJV) 14 Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory.

Sorry, but when I trusted Christ, I was sealed until the day of the redemption of the purchased possession, not 'until I choose to walk away or until God no longer wants me'. God will not break the seal, I cannot break the seal. If either of us broke the seal, then Ephesians 1:13-14 is a lie. And, if Ephesians 1:13-14 is a lie, then how much more of God's Word is also a lie?

I made reference to Jeremiah 20:7-9 a few pages back, pointing out the fact that though Jeremiah decided he would just stop believing that God existed, he realized that was an impossible task. The Word was in him and shut up like fire in his bones.

It is the same with the sealed of God today. We have the Comforter, the Holy Ghost, who teaches us all things, testifies of Christ, and guides us into all truth. The saved cannot walk away, for they are guided by the Holy Ghost. The saved cannot stop believing, for the Spirit in us teaches us and testifies of Christ.

We are His eternally once we place our trust in Him as our propitiation for sin and for our Salvation.

 

[ELECT]

oh, wait... wrong Bible. Let me get the right one....



Sorry, but when I trusted Christ, I was sealed until the day of the redemption of the purchased possession, not 'until I choose to walk away or until God no longer wants me'. God will not break the seal, I cannot break the seal. If either of us broke the seal, then Ephesians 1:13-14 is a lie. And, if Ephesians 1:13-14 is a lie, then how much more of God's Word is also a lie?

I made reference to Jeremiah 20:7-9 a few pages back, pointing out the fact that though Jeremiah decided he would just stop believing that God existed, he realized that was an impossible task. The Word was in him and shut up like fire in his bones.

It is the same with the sealed of God today. We have the Comforter, the Holy Ghost, who teaches us all things, testifies of Christ, and guides us into all truth. The saved cannot walk away, for they are guided by the Holy Ghost. The saved cannot stop believing, for the Spirit in us teaches us and testifies of Christ.

We are His eternally once we place our trust in Him as our propitiation for sin and for our Salvation.

[h=1]Hebrews 10:38King James Version (KJV)[/h]38 Now the just shall live by faith: but if any man draw back, my soul shall have no pleasure in him.
The one who draw back did he have the Holy Spirit ? Was he sealed ? Would he be still be sealed even if he draws back?
What will he draw back to and from what ?

 

[ELECT]

oh, wait... wrong Bible. Let me get the right one....



Sorry, but when I trusted Christ, I was sealed until the day of the redemption of the purchased possession, not 'until I choose to walk away or until God no longer wants me'. God will not break the seal, I cannot break the seal. If either of us broke the seal, then Ephesians 1:13-14 is a lie. And, if Ephesians 1:13-14 is a lie, then how much more of God's Word is also a lie?

I made reference to Jeremiah 20:7-9 a few pages back, pointing out the fact that though Jeremiah decided he would just stop believing that God existed, he realized that was an impossible task. The Word was in him and shut up like fire in his bones.

It is the same with the sealed of God today. We have the Comforter, the Holy Ghost, who teaches us all things, testifies of Christ, and guides us into all truth. The saved cannot walk away, for they are guided by the Holy Ghost. The saved cannot stop believing, for the Spirit in us teaches us and testifies of Christ.

We are His eternally once we place our trust in Him as our propitiation for sin and for our Salvation.

[h=1]John 6:65-68King James Version (KJV)[/h]65 And he said, Therefore said I unto you, that no man can come unto me, except it were given unto him of my Father.
66 From that time many of his disciples went back, and walked no more with him.
67 Then said Jesus unto the twelve, Will ye also go away?
68 Then Simon Peter answered him, Lord, to whom shall we go? thou hast the words of eternal life.

 

[passinthru]

What He taught was for all of us to obey and follow.
His teachings during the 3 1/2 years that His earthly ministry took place were not done away with when He was crucified on the cross. He came to give the instructions on how we are to walk under the new covenant, and one of those teachings was to forgive others or you will not be forgiven of yours.
You have to repent of your sins confessing for forgiveness, and being baptized before those sins are covered by His blood. They are not just immediately covered without doing any of those things. If so then all people would be automatically forgiven and get salvation which is not the case. It is amazing how people want to cancel out His new covenant teachings in His earthly ministry as done away with at the cross. The old covenant mosaic laws was done away with at the cross, not His teachings during His earthly ministry.

So you are saying It is faith PLUS works that saves us?

 

[StandingFirmInChrist]

Those that left Christ were never saved. Had they been of Christ, they would have continued with Him. (Ref. 1John 2:19)

 

[Sophia]

Does this debate come from people not understanding 16th century English?