Puzzled, Why Not Talk to God About the Sabbath?

[ELECT]

You mean you don't believe in the phophet Ellen G white?

what a false prophet this woman was and is

 

[ELECT]

See taking it a step further with what you said in regards to the Law of Moses and hypocrisy...if you say I am keeping the law of Moses in essence you are saying that Jesus Christ never fulfilled it when he died on the Cross...so you need to fulfill it...sounds like pride to me...I mean do we really need to work to fulfill something that Christ already has? If they want to attempt to fulfill the impossible that's their prerogative...I'll stick with Christ who fulfilled it for me

i wonder if baptism is done away or fullfiled with CHrist also ?

Matthew 3:12-17King James Version (KJV)

12 Whose fan is in his hand, and he will throughly purge his floor, and gather his wheat into the garner; but he will burn up the chaff with unquenchable fire.
13 Then cometh Jesus from Galilee to Jordan unto John, to be baptized of him.
14 But John forbad him, saying, I have need to be baptized of thee, and comest thou to me?
15 And Jesus answering said unto him, Suffer it to be so now: for thus it becometh us to fulfil all righteousness. Then he suffered him.
16 And Jesus, when he was baptized, went up straightway out

 

[ELECT]

No. I am a sinner saved by grace, through my Faith in my Lord Jesus Christ. My brother, are you a want-a-be Jew, or a follower of the Lord Jesus Christ?

Brother you are an expert at dodging the question and running down a rabbit trail. When someone asks you a question, why don't you stop and answer it? You started this part of the discussion by telling everyone that you keep the Sabbath, and that it is on the day that we non believers (what your answers imply) keep it. If we are to keep the Sabbath on Saturday, I ask you to begin with Commandment "Remember the Sabbath, and keep it Holy" and explain away why you don't obey each and every verse that relates to the Sabbath. If you make a statement, and expect us to accept it as true because you observe it, then you must explain away why you do or do not keep each verse that you do not keep.

I apologize if I have offended you, but your answer to VCO's had absolutely nothing to do with his question that you presented earlier, and appears to me to be an insult.

Again I humbly apologize if I am wrong.

then you should read and understand this verse interesting many say the law was for the jews ?

[h=1]Romans 2:27-29King James Version (KJV)[/h]27 And shall not uncircumcision which is by nature, if it fulfil the law, judge thee, who by the letter and circumcision dost transgress the law?
28 For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh:
29 But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.

 

[ELECT]

No. I am a sinner saved by grace, through my Faith in my Lord Jesus Christ. My brother, are you a want-a-be Jew, or a follower of the Lord Jesus Christ?

Brother you are an expert at dodging the question and running down a rabbit trail. When someone asks you a question, why don't you stop and answer it? You started this part of the discussion by telling everyone that you keep the Sabbath, and that it is on the day that we non believers (what your answers imply) keep it. If we are to keep the Sabbath on Saturday, I ask you to begin with Commandment "Remember the Sabbath, and keep it Holy" and explain away why you don't obey each and every verse that relates to the Sabbath. If you make a statement, and expect us to accept it as true because you observe it, then you must explain away why you do or do not keep each verse that you do not keep.

I apologize if I have offended you, but your answer to VCO's had absolutely nothing to do with his question that you presented earlier, and appears to me to be an insult.

Again I humbly apologize if I am wrong.

interesting then you could help VCO please explain this and will i answer you question VCO was not up to the task thus I choose not to answer him all i ask was for VCO to explain the verse 1st then i will all the question they wish

Isaiah 66:22-24King James Version (KJV)

22 For as the new heavens and the new earth, which I will make, shall remain before me, saith the Lord, so shall your seed and your name remain.
23 And it shall come to pass, that from one new moon to another, and from one sabbath to another, shall all flesh come to worship before me, saith the Lord.
24 And they shall go forth, and look upon the carcases of the men that have transgressed against me: for their worm shall not die, neither shall their fire be quenched; and they shall be an abhorring unto all flesh.

 

[Mitspa]

Gladly. I do want to start by saying, I do not walk perfectly, I have done right things, but im not perfect, so please.

The Sabbath is a day to re-connect with Yah. People say, "I keep the Sabbath every day" not talking down on this mindset, but in reality it is IMPOSSIBLE. People have to work for their own gain, people have to do chores for their own gain, etc.

However, the Sabbath is a day set aside for the work/will of Yahweh, for you have heard how the priest are blameless for working on the Sabbath? Well who is the High Priest now? If one is a follower, they would listen to this High Priest, for He says:

Matt 24:20, "But pray that your flight will not be in the winter, nor on the Sabbath Day, For then will be great tribulation, such as has not come to pass since the beginning of the world to this time--no, nor ever will be."

SO He clearly thought Sabbath would still be kept.

and He said:


Matt 12:12 "And how much more valuable is a man than a sheep? Therefore, it is Lawful to do righteousness on the Sabbath."


So we see truth in doing righteousness on the Sabbath.

SO what does it all mean? Well one would have to look at what the pharisees did to the Sabbath, I will explain ONE thing. Nobody seems to care about the error of the pharisees, but in reality it is VITAL to understanding Yahshua's interaction with them, If you dont understand their real error, you will miss the Messiah's intent. The pharisees mad it so people would sit in their house and stre at a wall instead of doing and learning of Yah. They even had distance regulations that could be altered by burying food and placing a bed on the ground... you are proably lost concerning, " burying food and placing a bed on the ground" exactly,. it is all distraction away from the true intent.

Is preparing food evil? NO.

Is washing my house evil? NO.

Is working out evil? NO.

However none of these are the "things of Yahweh"

Sabbath is for the things of Yahweh.

None is better than another, but if you have never dedicated a entire 24 hr period to Him and His will, you can not understand. And half edication is not dedication. It took me a month or so of Sababths to really enjoy focusing on Him, that began to change my walk and my understanding of the Spirit.

The world draws one away and the Sabbath helps to bring that focus back.

He created us, I trust He knows how to train us.


Isayah 58:13-14, "If you turn away your foot from breaking the Sabbath: from doing your pleasure; your own business, your own pleasure, on My holy day, and call the Sabbath a delight; the holy day of Yahweh honorable, and will honor Him by not doing your own ways, nor finding your own pleasure, nor engaging in aidle conversation: Then you will find your joy in Yahweh; and I will cause you to ride on the high places of the earth, and feed you with the heritage of Yaaqob your father--for the mouth of Yahweh has spoken it."

Do not kindle a fire on the Shabbat.... is not about a physical fire.

also is it evl to travel? NO. But that time spent traveling could have been spent ministering, helps others, etc etc etc..... and no I dont behave perfectly and feed the homeless every Sabbath. Many Sabbath are spent studying, teaching, sharing, learning, talking about Yah and His principles with other people that already believe...


Ohh and before I can take anyone serious that wants to tell me Sabbath has been changed, I would need you to explain what you think this verse means, because if you are not willing to explain then I assume you have ill intention, a man of Yah can consider all Scripture. If you have no answer for this verse you are clearly not learned in the word (no disrespect, but a learned man, guided by Yah IS GOING TO KNOW THIS VERSE.

Daniyl 7:25, "And he will speak great words against Yahweh, and will wear out; mentally attack to cause to fall away, the saints of Yahweh, and think to change times and Laws..."

Scripture says the change is evil.... but Im told here its oh so goody!

So you don't keep it? and you try to excuse the standard of the law away by saying the New Testament some how sets you free from really keeping it as the law of moses demands? What kind of obedience is that? How does that "uphold the law" by saying you don't keep it and you don't really have to follow the rules that are written about keeping the Sabbath? You law keeper types sure don't show the rest of poor ignorant grace people how to honor or keep the law! You ever thought that you are in error by claiming to keep the law, however you like and then seeming to break it all the time...even by your watered down standards?

 

[Mitspa]

what a false prophet this woman was and is

Yes...and she is the one who started the SDA...and brought the very doctrine your trying to teach on this forum.

 

[Mitspa]

then you should read and understand this verse interesting many say the law was for the jews ?

Romans 2:27-29King James Version (KJV)

27 And shall not uncircumcision which is by nature, if it fulfil the law, judge thee, who by the letter and circumcision dost transgress the law?
28 For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh:
29 But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.

Hold on a min...you been trying to claim the law is to be laid on believers...have you now repented of that error? If so good!

 

[Hizikyah]

So you don't keep it? and you try to excuse the standard of the law away by saying the New Testament some how sets you free from really keeping it as the law of moses demands? What kind of obedience is that? How does that "uphold the law" by saying you don't keep it and you don't really have to follow the rules that are written about keeping the Sabbath? You law keeper types sure don't show the rest of poor ignorant grace people how to honor or keep the law! You ever thought that you are in error by claiming to keep the law how ever you like and then seeming to break it all the time...even by your watered down standards?

I never said, I was perfect nor did I say I did any of those things on Sabbath, I was using examples.

Mattithyah 5:18, "For truly I say to you; Unless heaven and earth passes away, one yodh--the smallest of the letters--will in no way pass from the Law, until all things are perfected."

Luke 16:17, "But it is easier for heaven and earth to pass, than one yodh of the Law to fail."

Daniyl 7:25, "And he will speak great words against Yahweh, and will wear out; mentally attack to cause to fall away, the saints of Yahweh, and think to change times and Laws..."

Ohh and there is this:

Yea Billy...its very hard to get a strait answer on any of these guys who claim to be keeping the Sabbath according to the law...they seem to just not work that day....a whole lot of lazy people to that! But when you ask them about the true biblical standards for keeping the Sabbath they seem to just throw insults and change the topic?

Since you did not post a single Scripture, not refute any Scriptural principle I posted, YOU HAVE CLEARLY MADE YOURSELF GUILTY OF EXACTLY WHAT YOU ACCUSE OTHERS OF.

Your fruits clearly show, and I say this because you have said messed up things to me, even said I said this or that, with no ability to quote my words, and yet NEVER have you ever said, yeah, my fault to me, I understand we disagree but, there were times when you claim I say certain things that you can not quote me saying, because I did not say..I stand on the word, you stand on your own words and personal attacks, and this is not the first time. No I am not angry, nor am I in the wrong, for you are in error.

Titus 1:9, "Holding fast the teaching according to the faithful word in order that he may be able, by sound doctrine, both to exhort and to refute those who contradict."

1 Yahchanan (John) 2:4, "He who says: I know Him, but does not keep His Law, is a liar, and the truth is not in him."

2 Timothy 4:2-3, "Preach the word Be instant; ready to take your positions in season, out of season. Reprove, rebuke, exhort with all longsuffering and doctrine. For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts they will heap to themselves teachers, who will tickle their ears."

 

[Mitspa]

I never said, I was perfect nor did I say I did any of those things on Sabbath, I was using examples.

Mattithyah 5:18, "For truly I say to you; Unless heaven and earth passes away, one yodh--the smallest of the letters--will in no way pass from the Law, until all things are perfected."

Luke 16:17, "But it is easier for heaven and earth to pass, than one yodh of the Law to fail."

Daniyl 7:25, "And he will speak great words against Yahweh, and will wear out; mentally attack to cause to fall away, the saints of Yahweh, and think to change times and Laws..."

Ohh and there is this:



Since you did not post a single Scripture, not refute any Scriptural principle I posted, YOU HAVE CLEARLY MADE YOURSELF GUILTY OF EXACTLY WHAT YOU ACCUSE OTHERS OF.

Your fruits clearly show, and I say this because you have said messed up things to me, even said I said this or that, with no ability to quote my words, and yet NEVER have you ever said, yeah, my fault to me, I understand we disagree but, there were times when you claim I say certain things that you can not quote me saying, because I did not say..I stand on the word, you stand on your own words and personal attacks, and this is not the first time. No I am not angry, nor am I in the wrong, for you are in error.

Titus 1:9, "Holding fast the teaching according to the faithful word in order that he may be able, by sound doctrine, both to exhort and to refute those who contradict."

1 Yahchanan (John) 2:4, "He who says: I know Him, but does not keep His Law, is a liar, and the truth is not in him."

2 Timothy 4:2-3, "Preach the word Be instant; ready to take your positions in season, out of season. Reprove, rebuke, exhort with all longsuffering and doctrine. For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts they will heap to themselves teachers, who will tickle their ears."

Because I thought someone who claims to keep the law as much as you do would be keeping the Sabbath as its written in the law? Why don't you? If you claim to keep the law? Man this is a pretty simple question!

 

[Hizikyah]

Yea Billy...its very hard to get a strait answer on any of these guys who claim to be keeping the Sabbath according to the law...they seem to just not work that day....a whole lot of lazy people to that! But when you ask them about the true biblical standards for keeping the Sabbath they seem to just throw insults and change the topic?

Well Hiz you seem to be a little more serious about trying to keep the law than these guys...tell us all the rules in the law about keeping the Sabbath and how you do it?

Gladly. I do want to start by saying, I do not walk perfectly, I have done right things, but im not perfect, so please.

The Sabbath is a day to re-connect with Yah. People say, "I keep the Sabbath every day" not talking down on this mindset, but in reality it is IMPOSSIBLE. People have to work for their own gain, people have to do chores for their own gain, etc.

However, the Sabbath is a day set aside for the work/will of Yahweh, for you have heard how the priest are blameless for working on the Sabbath? Well who is the High Priest now? If one is a follower, they would listen to this High Priest, for He says:

Matt 24:20, "But pray that your flight will not be in the winter, nor on the Sabbath Day, For then will be great tribulation, such as has not come to pass since the beginning of the world to this time--no, nor ever will be."

SO He clearly thought Sabbath would still be kept.

and He said:


Matt 12:12 "And how much more valuable is a man than a sheep? Therefore, it is Lawful to do righteousness on the Sabbath."


So we see truth in doing righteousness on the Sabbath.

SO what does it all mean? Well one would have to look at what the pharisees did to the Sabbath, I will explain ONE thing. Nobody seems to care about the error of the pharisees, but in reality it is VITAL to understanding Yahshua's interaction with them, If you dont understand their real error, you will miss the Messiah's intent. The pharisees mad it so people would sit in their house and stre at a wall instead of doing and learning of Yah. They even had distance regulations that could be altered by burying food and placing a bed on the ground... you are proably lost concerning, " burying food and placing a bed on the ground" exactly,. it is all distraction away from the true intent.

Is preparing food evil? NO.

Is washing my house evil? NO.

Is working out evil? NO.

However none of these are the "things of Yahweh"

Sabbath is for the things of Yahweh.

None is better than another, but if you have never dedicated a entire 24 hr period to Him and His will, you can not understand. And half edication is not dedication. It took me a month or so of Sababths to really enjoy focusing on Him, that began to change my walk and my understanding of the Spirit.

The world draws one away and the Sabbath helps to bring that focus back.

He created us, I trust He knows how to train us.


Isayah 58:13-14, "If you turn away your foot from breaking the Sabbath: from doing your pleasure; your own business, your own pleasure, on My holy day, and call the Sabbath a delight; the holy day of Yahweh honorable, and will honor Him by not doing your own ways, nor finding your own pleasure, nor engaging in aidle conversation: Then you will find your joy in Yahweh; and I will cause you to ride on the high places of the earth, and feed you with the heritage of Yaaqob your father--for the mouth of Yahweh has spoken it."

Do not kindle a fire on the Shabbat.... is not about a physical fire.

also is it evl to travel? NO. But that time spent traveling could have been spent ministering, helps others, etc etc etc..... and no I dont behave perfectly and feed the homeless every Sabbath. Many Sabbath are spent studying, teaching, sharing, learning, talking about Yah and His principles with other people that already believe...


Ohh and before I can take anyone serious that wants to tell me Sabbath has been changed, I would need you to explain what you think this verse means, because if you are not willing to explain then I assume you have ill intention, a man of Yah can consider all Scripture. If you have no answer for this verse you are clearly not learned in the word (no disrespect, but a learned man, guided by Yah IS GOING TO KNOW THIS VERSE.

Daniyl 7:25, "And he will speak great words against Yahweh, and will wear out; mentally attack to cause to fall away, the saints of Yahweh, and think to change times and Laws..."

Scripture says the change is evil.... but Im told here its oh so goody!

So you don't keep it? and you try to excuse the standard of the law away by saying the New Testament some how sets you free from really keeping it as the law of moses demands? What kind of obedience is that? How does that "uphold the law" by saying you don't keep it and you don't really have to follow the rules that are written about keeping the Sabbath? You law keeper types sure don't show the rest of poor ignorant grace people how to honor or keep the law! You ever thought that you are in error by claiming to keep the law, however you like and then seeming to break it all the time...even by your watered down standards?

But when you ask them about the true biblical standards for keeping the Sabbath they seem to just throw insults and change the topic?

Where was your Scripture? all I read was, "insults and change the topic"

Oh and it is not about PERFECT obedience, it is about submitting to the CREATOR:

Mattithyah 7:23, "But then I will declare to them; I never knew you. Get away from Me, you who practice iniquity."

iniquity is:#0458 anomia {an-om-ee'-ah} from G0459

Greek Word Study (Transliteration-Pronunciation Etymology & Grammar)
1) the condition of without law
1a) because ignorant of it
1b) because of violating it
2) contempt and violation of law, iniquity, wickedness

Romans 5:13, "For until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law."

Romans 4:15, "Because the law worketh wrath: for where no law is, there is no transgression."

1 John 1:8-10, "If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. If we say that we have not sinned, we make Him a liar, and His Law is not in us."


1Jn 3:4 Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.

 

[Mitspa]

This is simple Hiz...why don't you keep the Sabbath as its written in the law? When you claim to keep the law!

 

[Hizikyah]

Because I thought someone who claims to keep the law as much as you do would be keeping the Sabbath as its written in the law? Why don't you? If you claim to keep the law? Man this is a pretty simple question!

Revelation 12:17, "And the dragon was enraged with the woman, and went to make war with those who forsook her seed; her seed being those who keep the Laws of Yahweh, and have the testimony of Yahshua Messiah."

1785. entolé
Definition: an ordinance, injunction, command, law.

Who does the dragon fight against? and the dragon even brought fiends to help, "with those who forsook"

and what is it you are fighting against again?

 

[Mitspa]

Revelation 12:17, "And the dragon was enraged with the woman, and went to make war with those who forsook her seed; her seed being those who keep the Laws of Yahweh, and have the testimony of Yahshua Messiah."

1785. entolé
Definition: an ordinance, injunction, command, law.

Who does the dragon fight against? and the dragon even brought fiends to help, "with those who forsook"

and what is it you are fighting against again?

It says those who keep it...im asking why you don't keep it as its written in the law.... You post a scripture that condemns you for not keeping the law?

 

[Word_Swordsman]

Why stop at verse 6? I wonder what verse 7 says Mr Word Swordsman?

Romans 7:

7 What? Can anyone therefore say that the Law is sin? No! By no means! But to the contrary, I did not know sin; transgression of the Law, except through the Law, for I did not know lust, unless the Law had said: Do not covet.

12 Therefore the Law is holy, and the commandments are holy, and just, and righteous.

13 Did that which is righteous, then, become death to me? By no means! But in order that sin might be recognized as sin, it produced death in me through that which was righteous, so that through the commandments, sin might become utterly sinful.

"sin might become utterly sinful" breaking "do not steal" is sin and death

14 For we know that the Law is spiritual; but I was carnal, sold into the power of sin.

the Law is spiritual;
Do not hold back the wages of a hired man overnight. Do not curse the deaf or put a stumblingblock in front of the blind; but reverence your Father. I am Yahweh. Do not pervert judgment: You shall not show partiality to the poor, nor honor to the person of the great.

Breaking "You shall not show partiality to the poor, nor honor to the person of the great." is carnal


16 And if I did what I did not want to do, I agreed that the Law is righteous.
17 As it was, it was no longer I myself who did it, but it was sin living in me.

22 For I delight in the Law of Yahweh according to the inward man;

23 But I saw another law at work in the members of my body, waging war against the Law in my mind, and bringing me into captivity of the law of sin, which is in my members.

25 Thanks be to Yahweh, I have deliverance through Yahshua Messiah our King! So then, with this same mind, I myself serve the Law of Yahweh, while in the flesh that is yet subject to the law of sin.

"I have deliverance"

deliverance from "do not steal" or deliverance from breaking "do not steal"

Romans 8:

2 Because through Yahshua Messiah, the Law of the Spirit has set me free from the law of sin and death.

(Romans 7:14 For we know that the Law is spiritual; but I was carnal, sold into the power of sin.)


3 For what the Law was powerless to do, in that men sought to defeat; overthrow, fit, Yahweh did by sending His own Son in the likeness of sinful man, to bear witness against sin. And so He condemned the sins of all mankind."

Is sin "do not steal?"

or is sin breaking "do not steal?"

(Romans 7:14 For we know that the Law is spiritual

Romans 8:5-8, "For those who live according to the flesh, set their minds on the things of the flesh; but those who live according to the Spirit, set their minds on the things of the Spirit. For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace. Because the carnal mind is enmity against; (bitterly opposed to), Yahweh; for it his not subject to the Law of Yahweh, nor indeed can be. So then, those who are of the flesh cannot please Yahweh."

What is the flesh opposed to?

Following Yahweh's Law?

Rejecting Yahweh's Law?

carnal mind is enmity against
for it his not subject to the Law of Yahweh


2 Kepha 3:15-16, "...Shaul, in accordance with the wisdom given to him, has written to you, As also in all his letters, speaking in them about these things, in which are some things hard to be understood, which those who are unlearned and unstable twist, as they also do the other Scriptures, to their own destruction."

Psalm 19:7-10, "The Laws of Yahweh are perfect, converting the whole person. The testimony of Yahweh is sure, making the simple ones wise. The statutes of Yahweh are right, rejoicing the heart; mind. The commandments of Yahweh are pure, bringing understanding to the eyes. The reverence of Yahweh is clean, enduring forever. The judgments of Yahweh are true and altogether righteous. They are more to be desired than gold, yes, than even much fine gold. They are sweeter than honey and the honeycomb."

It appears you have greatly misunderstood all of chapter 7 and of course would fail to comprehend 8. Why stop at
Rom. 8:8? Paul goes on with his case.
Romans 9:31-33 (KJV)
[SUP]31 [/SUP] But Israel, which followed after the law of righteousness, hath not attained to the law of righteousness.
[SUP]32 [/SUP] Wherefore? Because they sought it not by faith, but as it were by the works of the law. For they stumbled at that stumblingstone;
[SUP]33 [/SUP] As it is written, Behold, I lay in Sion a stumblingstone and rock of offence: and whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.

Believe upon Jesus, not the law. The law is spiritual, but is not the Holy Spirit, nor is it Christ, nor can it save anyone. If it could save then all Israel would have been saved. Paul lamented over their great loss.

Romans 10:1-13 (KJV)
[SUP]1 [/SUP] Brethren, my heart's desire and prayer to God for Israel is, that they might be saved.
[SUP]2 [/SUP] For I bear them record that they have a zeal of God, but not according to knowledge.
[SUP]3 [/SUP] For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God.
[SUP]4 [/SUP] For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth.
[SUP]5 [/SUP] For Moses describeth the righteousness which is of the law, That the man which doeth those things shall live by them.
[SUP]6 [/SUP] But the righteousness which is of faith speaketh on this wise, Say not in thine heart, Who shall ascend into heaven? (that is, to bring Christ down from above
[SUP]7 [/SUP] Or, Who shall descend into the deep? (that is, to bring up Christ again from the dead.)
[SUP]8 [/SUP] But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach;
[SUP]9 [/SUP] That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
[SUP]10 [/SUP] For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
[SUP]11 [/SUP] For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.
[SUP]12 [/SUP] For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him.
[SUP]13 [/SUP] For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.

It goes on and on, and the truth prevails in the other epistles. If a person is serving the law, then one cannot serve Christ. Christ is not there tending the Law. The priesthood of the Law is not over there obeying it. Christ died to it and lives on the free side of it. It is abolished in Him, for God's holiness followed that of Christs. It's still holy, still good, but righteousness by faith is far better.

Your quest is futile.

 

[Hizikyah]

It says those who keep it...im asking why you don't keep it as its written in the law.... You post a scripture that condemns you for not keeping the law?

Well I guess that is between myself and Yah, however that does not change the truth of the Scripture. oh and BTW its not up to you if I have sinned against my Father, it is up to Him.

Acts 17:30-31, “In the past Yahweh winked at such ignorance, but now He commands all men everywhere to repent! For He has appointed a day in which He will judge the world in righteousness, by a Man whom He has ordained; and He has given evidence to everyone by raising Him from the dead.”

Romans 2:12, "For as many as have sinned without the Law, will also perish without the Law, and as many as have sinned in the Law, will be judged by the Law."

John 12:48, "He who rejects Me, and does not follow My words has One Who judges him. The word that I have spoken, the same will be used to judge him in the last day."

 

[Hizikyah]

It appears you have greatly misunderstood all of chapter 7 and of course would fail to comprehend 8. Why stop at
Rom. 8:8? Paul goes on with his case.
Romans 9:31-33 (KJV)
[SUP]31 [/SUP] But Israel, which followed after the law of righteousness, hath not attained to the law of righteousness.
[SUP]32 [/SUP] Wherefore? Because they sought it not by faith, but as it were by the works of the law. For they stumbled at that stumblingstone;
[SUP]33 [/SUP] As it is written, Behold, I lay in Sion a stumblingstone and rock of offence: and whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.

Believe upon Jesus, not the law. The law is spiritual, but is not the Holy Spirit, nor is it Christ, nor can it save anyone. If it could save then all Israel would have been saved. Paul lamented over their great loss.

Romans 10:1-13 (KJV)
[SUP]1 [/SUP] Brethren, my heart's desire and prayer to God for Israel is, that they might be saved.
[SUP]2 [/SUP] For I bear them record that they have a zeal of God, but not according to knowledge.
[SUP]3 [/SUP] For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God.
[SUP]4 [/SUP] For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth.
[SUP]5 [/SUP] For Moses describeth the righteousness which is of the law, That the man which doeth those things shall live by them.
[SUP]6 [/SUP] But the righteousness which is of faith speaketh on this wise, Say not in thine heart, Who shall ascend into heaven? (that is, to bring Christ down from above
[SUP]7 [/SUP] Or, Who shall descend into the deep? (that is, to bring up Christ again from the dead.)
[SUP]8 [/SUP] But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach;
[SUP]9 [/SUP] That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
[SUP]10 [/SUP] For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
[SUP]11 [/SUP] For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.
[SUP]12 [/SUP] For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him.
[SUP]13 [/SUP] For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.

It goes on and on, and the truth prevails in the other epistles. If a person is serving the law, then one cannot serve Christ. Christ is not there tending the Law. The priesthood of the Law is not over there obeying it. Christ died to it and lives on the free side of it. It is abolished in Him, for God's holiness followed that of Christs. It's still holy, still good, but righteousness by faith is far better.

Your quest is futile.

You stand on Paul, your ONE witness. (that has been mistranslated in your Rom 10:4.)

I will stand on 2 or more witnesses, including the Messiah.

Yahshua - Luke 16:17, "But it is easier for heaven and earth to pass, than one yodh of the Law to fail."

Revelation 22:12-15, "And behold, I come quickly, and My reward is with Me, to give every man according as his work will be. I am the First and the Last, the Beginning and the End. Blessed are those who keep His Laws, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city. For outside are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and worshipers of gods and everyone who professes to love, yet practices falsehood."

Mattithyah 5:18 "For truly I say to you; Unless heaven and earth passes away, one yodh--the smallest of the letters--will in no way pass from the Law, until all things are perfected."

Mattithyah 7:23, "But then I will declare to them; I never knew you. Get away from Me, you who practice iniquity."

iniquity is:#0458 anomia {an-om-ee'-ah} from G0459

Greek Word Study (Transliteration-Pronunciation Etymology & Grammar)
1) the condition of without law
1a) because ignorant of it
1b) because of violating it
2) contempt and violation of law, iniquity, wickedness

Mattithyah 5:19, "Whosoever, therefore, will break one of the least of these Laws, and will teach men so, he will be called the least in the Kingdom of Yahweh; but whosoever will do and teach them, the same will be called great in the Kingdom of Yahweh."


Yahweh - Exodus 20:6, "But showing love to thousands who love Me by keeping My Laws."

John - 1 Yahchanan 5:2-3, "By this we know that we love the children of Yahweh: When we love Yahweh by keeping His Laws. For this is the love of Yahweh: That we keep His Law, and His Law is not grievous."

Jeremiah - Yeremyah 31:33, "After those days, says Yahweh: I will put My Law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; minds, and I will be their Father, and they will be My people."

Psalmists - Psalm 111:10, "The works of Your hands are truth and judgment, and all Your Laws are sure; They stand fast for ever and ever, and are done in truth and uprightness. You sent redemption to Your people; You have commanded; ordained, Your covenant forever. Holy and Reverend is Your Name. The reverence of Yahweh is the beginning of wisdom. A great understanding have all they who do (Your Laws). Your praise endures for ever!"

Paul - Romans 13:8, "Owe no man anything, except to love one another, for he who loves another has performed the Law. For the commandments: You shall not commit adultery, You shall not murder, You shall not steal, You shall not bring false testimony, You shall not covet, and all other commandments are briefly summed up in this (Law Leviticus 19:18); namely: You must love your neighbor as yourself. Love works no harm to his neighbor; therefore, love is the fulness of the Law."

Acts 24:14, "But I confess this to you, that after the way which they call heresy--so I worship the Father of my fathers, believing all things which are written in the Law and in the Prophets."

Romans 7:25, "Thanks be to Yahweh, I have deliverance through Yahshua Messiah our King! So then, with this same mind, I myself serve the Law of Yahweh, while in the flesh that is yet subject to the law of sin."

Acts 21:24, "Take them, and be purified with them, and pay their expenses so that they may shave their heads. Then everyone will know that those things they were informed about you (forsaking the Law), were lies, and that you, yourself, walk orderly, and keep the Law."

Daniyl - Daniyl 7:25, "And he will speak great words against Yahweh, and will wear out; mentally attack to cause to fall away, the saints of Yahweh, and think to change times and Laws..."

Peter - 2 peter 3:15-17, "And count the patience of our Lord as salvation, just as our beloved brother Paul also wrote to you according to the wisdom given him, as he does in all his letters when he speaks in them of these matters. There are some things in them that are hard to understand, which the ignorant and unstable twist to their own destruction, as they do the other Scriptures. You therefore, beloved, knowing this beforehand, take care that you are not carried away with the error of lawless people and lose your own stability."

 

[Hizikyah]

[SUP]4 [/SUP] For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth.

Romans 10:4, "For Christ is the end (telos) of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth."

Romans 10:4, "For Yahshua is the ultimate result (telos)of the Law unto righteousness for everyone who believes."

1Peter 1:9, "Receiving the end (telos) of your faith, even the salvation of your souls."

1 Kepha (Peter) 1:9, "Receiving the ultimate result (telos) of your faith--the salvation of your souls."

If the its the end of the Law aka Law is done away in Romans 10:4 then faith must also be done away in 1 Kepha (Peter) 1:9. Unless of course telos means the goal.

Greek Dictionary (Lexicon-Concordance) - #5056 telos {tel'-os} from a primary tello (to set out for a definite point or goal)

HELPS Word-studies - 5056 télos (a neuter noun) – properly, consummation (the end-goal, purpose), such as closure with all its results.

James 5:11, "Behold, we call them blessed that endured: ye have heard of the patience of Job, and have seen the end (telos) of the Lord, how that the Lord is full of pity, and merciful."

Yaaqob (James) 5:11, "Behold, we regard as blessed those who endure. You have heard of the patience of Iyyob, and have seen the ultimate result (telos) of Yahweh: that Yahweh is very compassionate and merciful."

Greek Dictionary (Lexicon-Concordance) - #5056 telos {tel'-os} from a primary tello (to set out for a definite point or goal)

HELPS Word-studies - 5056 télos (a neuter noun) – properly, consummation (the end-goal, purpose), such as closure with all its results.

Notice it is used 42 times? Let's look at a few of those times...

Rom 6:22 But now being made free from sin, and become servants to God, ye have your fruit unto holiness, and the end everlasting life.

Would you misapply that here and say that is the end of everlasting life? No more everlasting life, it is ended?

Rom 13:7 Render therefore to all their dues: tribute to whom tribute is due; custom to whom custom; fear to whom fear; honour to whom honour.

The word for custom here is G5056; telos.

1Ti 1:5 Now the end of the commandment is charity out of a pure heart, and of a good conscience, and of faith unfeigned:

So now if we end the Commandment (notice it is singular?) then the result is love (charity) out of a pure heart? Lawlessness produces love?

Now this one is a real problem for you misapplication of the word telos...

Jas 5:11 Behold, we count them happy which endure. Ye have heard of the patience of Job, and have seen the end of the Lord; that the Lord is very pitiful, and of tender mercy.

Oh no, the end of Christ?

1Pe 1:9 Receiving the end of your faith, even the salvation of your souls.

The end of faith?

The word is used in the sense of the end result, the goal, the outcome, not in the sense of the obliteration of the Law.

 

[ChristIsGod]

Eze 3:16 And it came to pass at the end of seven days, that the word of the LORD came unto me, saying,
Eze 3:17 Son of man, I have made thee a watchman unto the house of Israel: therefore hear the word at my mouth, and give them warning from me.
Eze 3:18 When I say unto the wicked, Thou shalt surely die; and thou givest him not warning, nor speakest to warn the wicked from his wicked way, to save his life; the same wicked man shall die in his iniquity; but his blood will I require at thine hand.
Eze 3:19 Yet if thou warn the wicked, and he turn not from his wickedness, nor from his wicked way, he shall die in his iniquity; but thou hast delivered thy soul.
Eze 3:20 Again, When a righteous man doth turn from his righteousness, and commit iniquity, and I lay a stumblingblock before him, he shall die: because thou hast not given him warning, he shall die in his sin, and his righteousness which he hath done shall not be remembered; but his blood will I require at thine hand.
Eze 3:21 Nevertheless if thou warn the righteous man, that the righteous sin not, and he doth not sin, he shall surely live, because he is warned; also thou hast delivered thy soul.

 

[VCO]

Post #386 showed followers of Messiah are Israylites.

And Scriptually speaking, Sabbath has always ben for all followers of Yah: CLEARLY WRITTEN HERE:

Isayah 56 said, "Also the sons of the Gentile who join themselves to Yahweh, to serve Him, and to love the Name of Yahweh, to be His servants--everyone who keeps the Sabbaths without polluting; defiling, them and who holds fast to My covenant--I will bring them to My holy mountain, and make them joyful in My House of prayer..."

and it was always this way, gentiles were always allowed, the pharisees kept them out, with their "oral law*" (*self made law) but Moses let them in, because Yah told him to.

Exodus 12:48-49, "And when a stranger lives among you and wants to sacrifice the Passover to Yahweh, let all his males be circumcised, and then let him come near, and sacrifice it; and he shall be as a native of the land. But no uncircumcised person shall eat of it. One Law shall be for the nativeborn and for the stranger who dwells among you."

Numbers 15:15-16, "One ordinance shall be for you of the congregation, and for the stranger who sojourns with you, as an ordinance forever throughout your generations. As you are, so shall the stranger be in front of Yahweh. One Law and one manner shall be for you and for the stranger who sojourns with you."

><>t<><

John 10:16 (HCSB)
[SUP]16 [/SUP] But I have other sheep that are not of this fold; I must bring them also, and they will listen to My voice. Then there will be one flock, one shepherd.

Romans 1:16 (NIV)
[SUP]16 [/SUP] I am not ashamed of the gospel, because it is the power of God for the salvation of everyone who believes: first for the Jew, then for the Gentile.

1 Chronicles 16:13-17 (HCSB)
[SUP]13 [/SUP] you offspring of Israel His servant, Jacob’s descendants—His chosen ones.
[SUP]14 [/SUP] He is the LORD our God; His judgments ⌊govern⌋ the whole earth.
[SUP]15 [/SUP] Remember His covenant forever— the promise He ordained for a thousand generations,
[SUP]16 [/SUP] ⌊the covenant⌋ He made with Abraham, swore to Isaac,
[SUP]17 [/SUP] and confirmed to Jacob as a decree, and to Israel as an everlasting covenant:


Revelation 7:4-17 (HCSB)
[SUP]4 [/SUP] And I heard the number of those who were sealed: 144,000 sealed from every tribe of the Israelites:
{O.T. Saints are joined in that Continuation of that everlasting covenant by these from the 70th Week of DANIEL.}
[SUP]5 [/SUP] 12,000 sealed from the tribe of Judah, 12,000 from the tribe of Reuben, 12,000 from the tribe of Gad,
[SUP]6 [/SUP] 12,000 from the tribe of Asher, 12,000 from the tribe of Naphtali, 12,000 from the tribe of Manasseh,
[SUP]7 [/SUP] 12,000 from the tribe of Simeon, 12,000 from the tribe of Levi, 12,000 from the tribe of Issachar,
[SUP]8 [/SUP] 12,000 from the tribe of Zebulun, 12,000 from the tribe of Joseph, 12,000 sealed from the tribe of Benjamin.

......... ☝

[SUP]9 [/SUP] After this I looked, and there was a vast multitude from every nation, tribe, people, and language, which no one could number, standing before the throne and before the Lamb. {Church-age Saints} They were robed in white with palm branches in their hands.
[SUP]10 [/SUP] And they cried out in a loud voice: Salvation belongs to our God, who is seated on the throne, and to the Lamb!
[SUP]11 [/SUP] All the angels stood around the throne, the elders, and the four living creatures, and they fell facedown before the throne and worshiped God,
[SUP]12 [/SUP] saying: Amen! Blessing and glory and wisdom and thanksgiving and honor and power and strength be to our God forever and ever. Amen.
[SUP]13 [/SUP] Then one of the elders asked me, “Who are these people robed in white, and where did they come from?”
[SUP]14 [/SUP] I said to him, “Sir, you know.” Then he told me: These are the ones coming out of the great tribulation. {Beheaded Tribulation Saints.} They washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.
[SUP]15 [/SUP] For this reason they are before the throne of God, and they serve Him day and night in His sanctuary. The One seated on the throne will shelter them:
[SUP]16 [/SUP] They will no longer hunger; they will no longer thirst; the sun will no longer strike them, nor will any heat.
[SUP]17 [/SUP] For the Lamb who is at the center of the throne will shepherd them; He will guide them to springs of living waters, and God will wipe away every tear from their eyes.

 

[VCO]

Post #386 showed followers of Messiah are Israylites.

And Scriptually speaking, Sabbath has always ben for all followers of Yah: CLEARLY WRITTEN HERE:

Isayah 56 said, "Also the sons of the Gentile who join themselves to Yahweh, to serve Him, and to love the Name of Yahweh, to be His servants--everyone who keeps the Sabbaths without polluting; defiling, them and who holds fast to My covenant--I will bring them to My holy mountain, and make them joyful in My House of prayer..."

and it was always this way, gentiles were always allowed, the pharisees kept them out, with their "oral law*" (*self made law) but Moses let them in, because Yah told him to.

Exodus 12:48-49, "And when a stranger lives among you and wants to sacrifice the Passover to Yahweh, let all his males be circumcised, and then let him come near, and sacrifice it; and he shall be as a native of the land. But no uncircumcised person shall eat of it. One Law shall be for the nativeborn and for the stranger who dwells among you."

Numbers 15:15-16, "One ordinance shall be for you of the congregation, and for the stranger who sojourns with you, as an ordinance forever throughout your generations. As you are, so shall the stranger be in front of Yahweh. One Law and one manner shall be for you and for the stranger who sojourns with you."

><>t<><
You showed NOTHING, ISRAEL remains his CHOSEN NATION, we are His adopted sons.

John 10:16 (HCSB)
[SUP]16 [/SUP] But I have other sheep that are not of this fold; I must bring them also, and they will listen to My voice. Then there will be one flock, one shepherd.

Romans 1:16 (NIV)
[SUP]16 [/SUP] I am not ashamed of the gospel, because it is the power of God for the salvation of everyone who believes: first for the Jew, then for the Gentile.

1 Chronicles 16:13-17 (HCSB)
[SUP]13 [/SUP] you offspring of Israel His servant, Jacob’s descendants—His chosen ones.
[SUP]14 [/SUP] He is the LORD our God; His judgments ⌊govern⌋ the whole earth.
[SUP]15 [/SUP] Remember His covenant forever— the promise He ordained for a thousand generations,
[SUP]16 [/SUP] ⌊the covenant⌋ He made with Abraham, swore to Isaac,
[SUP]17 [/SUP] and confirmed to Jacob as a decree, and to Israel as an everlasting covenant:


Revelation 7:4-17 (HCSB)
[SUP]4 [/SUP] And I heard the number of those who were sealed: 144,000 sealed from every tribe of the Israelites:
{O.T. Saints are joined in that Continuation of that everlasting covenant by these from the 70th Week of DANIEL.}
[SUP]5 [/SUP] 12,000 sealed from the tribe of Judah, 12,000 from the tribe of Reuben, 12,000 from the tribe of Gad,
[SUP]6 [/SUP] 12,000 from the tribe of Asher, 12,000 from the tribe of Naphtali, 12,000 from the tribe of Manasseh,
[SUP]7 [/SUP] 12,000 from the tribe of Simeon, 12,000 from the tribe of Levi, 12,000 from the tribe of Issachar,
[SUP]8 [/SUP] 12,000 from the tribe of Zebulun, 12,000 from the tribe of Joseph, 12,000 sealed from the tribe of Benjamin.

......... ☝

[SUP]9 [/SUP] After this I looked, and there was a vast multitude from every nation, tribe, people, and language, which no one could number, standing before the throne and before the Lamb. {Church-age Saints} They were robed in white with palm branches in their hands.
[SUP]10 [/SUP] And they cried out in a loud voice: Salvation belongs to our God, who is seated on the throne, and to the Lamb!
[SUP]11 [/SUP] All the angels stood around the throne, the elders, and the four living creatures, and they fell facedown before the throne and worshiped God,
[SUP]12 [/SUP] saying: Amen! Blessing and glory and wisdom and thanksgiving and honor and power and strength be to our God forever and ever. Amen.
[SUP]13 [/SUP] Then one of the elders asked me, “Who are these people robed in white, and where did they come from?”
[SUP]14 [/SUP] I said to him, “Sir, you know.” Then he told me: These are the ones coming out of the great tribulation. {Beheaded Tribulation Saints.} They washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.
[SUP]15 [/SUP] For this reason they are before the throne of God, and they serve Him day and night in His sanctuary. The One seated on the throne will shelter them:
[SUP]16 [/SUP] They will no longer hunger; they will no longer thirst; the sun will no longer strike them, nor will any heat.
[SUP]17 [/SUP] For the Lamb who is at the center of the throne will shepherd them; He will guide them to springs of living waters, and God will wipe away every tear from their eyes.