"LGBT RIGHTS"

[laura_charlotte]

Unfortunately, that's what we call unequal legal rights. You don't like gays because they're gay, so they shouldn't be able to marry. Well my imaginary friend down the road doesn't like Christians, and thinks they shouldn't be allowed to marry either. I disagree with him though.

Do you actually fail basic english comprehension or are you so ignorant as to make such ridiculous statements in front of others that you can't see that everyone can observe from this thread that i never said anything of the kind? Either way you show yourself up incredulously. I can't take your posts seriously at all.

I never ever posted such ridiculous reasoning nor do i hold the inane elementary beliefs that you've posted. How much do you actually know about christianity? How much have you actually studied the bible yourself?

I never said one single thing about not liking people, much less for something they're afflicted with. What i did was show support to those who struggle with such thoughts and to turn to God for help.

she would vote to make it illegal for them to have sex, given the chance.

Do you realise that people can read this forum? Hopefully with some degree of basic comprehension to see for themselves that i never said this? You are literally fabricating things. You go from one hop skip jump and step away from "oh well if i see this, i must conclude that/say that she believe that" - stop misrepresenting everything i say and you won't make such a fool of yourself.

 

[Human]

You can show love to others and be nice to them, this does not mean you have to support their lifestyle.
And as Christians the bible tells us we can not support the life style that is considered a sin, if we do it says we are just as guilty of that sin. For we would be backing a lie, and covering up a sin making it acceptable.
Saying that though we live in a country that has mass different types of people with different cultures living here, and thus the laws should support everybody that lives here. But should be done in away that they are not enforced on those who do not agree with those rights that get or might get passed into law.

You misunderstand the difference between supporting a lifestyle and allowing people their own freedoms to choose a lifestyle you disagree with. What you consider 'not supporting their lifestyle' is really being willing to make it illegal for them to live by any other lifestyle than the one you have chosen for yourself.

Be careful you don't step on the toes of your own rights while you're rushing to step on others'.

Giving someone else more rights under a legal system that demands nobody's rights infringe on anybody else's is of no detriment to you. Allowing legal gay marriage is of no detriment to you whatsoever. Such a law does not demand that you be gay. Such a law infringes your rights in no way.

 

[Siberian_Khatru]

I can dislike the idea of homoseuxality because it's biblically a sin, but that doesn't mean I have to lobby to make homosexual people into second class citizens.

No, of course not. "Unequal rights," after all. On the same token, it's their (homosexuals) prerogative to lobby for such rights, consequently violating the other end's beliefs/"dislikes"/etc. Whichever side wins the battle fuels the war, unfortunately.

 

[Human]

Do you actually fail basic english comprehension or are you so ignorant as to make such ridiculous statements in front of others that you can't see that everyone can observe from this thread that i never said anything of the kind? Either way you show yourself up incredulously. I can't take your posts seriously at all.

I never ever posted such ridiculous reasoning nor do i hold the inane elementary beliefs that you've posted. How much do you actually know about christianity? How much have you actually studied the bible yourself?

I never said one single thing about not liking people, much less for something they're afflicted with. What i did was show support to those who struggle with such thoughts and to turn to God for help.




Do you realise that people can read this forum? Hopefully with some degree of basic comprehension to see for themselves that i never said this? You are literally fabricating things. You go from one hop skip jump and step away from "oh well if i see this, i must conclude that/say that she believe that" - stop misrepresenting everything i say and you won't make such a fool of yourself.

Yes, resort to attacking the poster. Thumbs up. But you did say gays shouldn't be able to marry or adopt:

People who are afflicted with homosexual thoughts, need help to turn these ideas from the enemy over to God, for a complete renewal of spirit. I do not feed into and support homosexuality in any sense that i can - i.e: that they should be permitted to adopt or be married. They should not have those rights, what they need to do, is like every person on earth, turn their life over to God.

Then you contradict yourself by saying you believe in all equal rights for gay people except for marriage (and that you would actively VOTE accordingly, to stop gay people being able to be married:

Yes I expect equal rights for homosexuals,which they have,the only exception I have is with marriage.I believe a marriage is between a man and a woman and vote accordingly.Eventually it will pass Im sure but I personally disagree with same sex marriage.

Then you say that homosexuality is a constant in the world and you’ll fight against it:

What business is homosexuality of christians? When you need to be taught to turn your lives over to God and to learn the ways of Jesus, when your sin is a constant the world, of course we're going to stand up and do something about it.

Then you say acting on a desire for the same sex IN ANY WAY is against God:

All people are equal. This is distinct from people who struggle and are afflicted with homosexual thoughts, but as for acting on them, be life style or exercising human rights based on these ill notions, that are completely against the bible, this is what i don't support.

I think if I was willing to vote Christian people out of being able to act on their desire for the same sex, to stop them being able to marry, to stop them being able to have sex, and to stop them being able to adopt, I would not get away with saying ''I like Christians but not Christianity', and the same applies for homosexuals in your case.

You really aren't as intelligent as you seem to think, and people in glass houses shouldn't chuck rocks!

 

[Human]

No, of course not. "Unequal rights," after all. On the same token, it's their (homosexuals) prerogative to lobby for such rights, consequently violating the other end's beliefs/"dislikes"/etc. Whichever side wins the battle fuels the war, unfortunately.

Homosexual people don't violate your rights whatsoever by being able to marry. Their gain in right infringes in no way upon your already established rights. Not constitutionally, not legally, not at all. You still have all the same rights you had.

 

[Siberian_Khatru]

The don't violate your rights whatsoever by being able to marry. Their gain in right infringes in no way upon your already established rights. Not constitutionally, not legally, not at all. You still have all the same rights you had.

I didn't speak to a Christian's rights being violated.

No, of course not. "Unequal rights," after all. On the same token, it's their (homosexuals) prerogative to lobby for such rights, consequently violating the other end's beliefs/"dislikes"/etc. Whichever side wins the battle fuels the war, unfortunately.

Probably my fault; my phraseology could have been better.

 

[Siberian_Khatru]

Do you actually fail basic english comprehension or are you so ignorant as to make such ridiculous statements in front of others that you can't see that everyone can observe from this thread that i never said anything of the kind? Either way you show yourself up incredulously. I can't take your posts seriously at all.

I never ever posted such ridiculous reasoning nor do i hold the inane elementary beliefs that you've posted. How much do you actually know about christianity? How much have you actually studied the bible yourself?

I never said one single thing about not liking people, much less for something they're afflicted with. What i did was show support to those who struggle with such thoughts and to turn to God for help.

Do you realise that people can read this forum? Hopefully with some degree of basic comprehension to see for themselves that i never said this? You are literally fabricating things. You go from one hop skip jump and step away from "oh well if i see this, i must conclude that/say that she believe that" - stop misrepresenting everything i say and you won't make such a fool of yourself.

Some points here are valid, but the overall post comes across as vehemently rude.

 

[laura_charlotte]

Yes, resort to attacking the poster. Thumbs up. But you did say gays shouldn't be able to marry or adopt:

There is absolutely nothing attacking about my post whatsoever. Clarifying when someone is fabricating things that i never said, is not attack against you, it is perfectly reasonable to do so and there's a huge distinction between the two.

Then you contradict yourself by saying you believe in all equal rights for gay people except for marriage (and that you would actively VOTE accordingly, to stop gay people being able to be married:

1) You've actually posted something another poster said, not me. When you wish to be taken seriously, you need to get your facts straight and stop fabricating things.

Then you say that homosexuality is a constant in the world and you’ll fight against it:

2) Again you have quoted someone else's post as mine. If you wish to have any credibility in your argument at all, i would suggest getting your facts straight, stop claiming that people are attacking you when they point this out about your posts and stop fabricating things out of nowhere.

Then you say acting on a desire for the same sex IN ANY WAY is against God:

You've got an generalised simplistic sentence for my actual specific point. I'll repeat it again and stand by it because i have yet to see any credible error being shown of it by you or others.


"All people are equal. This is distinct from people who struggle and are afflicted with homosexual thoughts, but as for acting on them, be life style or exercising human rights based on these ill notions, that are completely against the bible, this is what i don't support."


1) stop quoting other people's posts as mine.

2) stop fabricating things out of nowhere saying people said things they didn't say or meant things they didn't mean

3) when someone points out the above two things to you, it's not an attack and for you to render it as one only makes you look even less credible than you already did with the way you construct your case.

4) when you do quote something in these forums, don't put out a random quote, actually have the person's name next to it. Just because you didn't do this, doesn't mean myself or anyone else is going to be fooled into your argument. I recognise when i posted something and when i didn't, and so do others. So if you want to appear in the least bit convincing in your mounting an argument in anything, try following these 4 tips - it'll get you much further.

 

[Human]

I agree that it's a fascist attitude to take.


Is that not your stance? I ask as you frequent a Christian forum, expressing opposition to traditional Christian values and being something of a vanguard for Atheism, but I've yet to see any affirmation of your disdain toward any persons here (strictly my impression thus far, to be fair).

I'm not opposed to Christianity in the same way she is opposed to homosexuality, that's why you're yet to see me show outright disdain for a person. I don't believe I should dictate that people be non-Christian in the same way this woman thinks that people should abide by the Christian moral ethic, nor do I believe I should attempt to convert people from Christianity in the way that this women believes she should convert people from atheism. I don't believe that I should have any power to vote in laws that discriminate against Christianity or disallow people to practice it in the way that she believes she should be able to vote in laws that disallow gay sex, gay adoption and gay marriage.

I don't oppose Christianity in a manner that seeks to demonize it or to subject its adherents to abuse in the same way that people tend to oppose homosexuality as 'the devil's work' or call these people out as morally repugnant wastes of space morally equivalent to paedophiles and those who have sex with animals. Nor do I believe I should shun Christians out of society in the way homosexuals often are.

In fact, I don't oppose Christianity as a religion whatsoever. I believe unwaveringly in the right for a person to practice their religion as a matter of personal right. What I oppose is the oppression that comes from, usually staunch, forms of Christianity that extend that right to practice and assume it is a right to encorach on others' dignity. I oppose the hatred and vitriol that arises in that.

 

[Human]

There is absolutely nothing attacking about my post whatsoever. Clarifying when someone is fabricating things that i never said, is not attack against you, it is perfectly reasonable to do so and there's a huge distinction between the two.





1) You've actually posted something another poster said, not me. When you wish to be taken seriously, you need to get your facts straight and stop fabricating things.





2) Again you have quoted someone else's post as mine. If you wish to have any credibility in your argument at all, i would suggest getting your facts straight, stop claiming that people are attacking you when they point this out about your posts and stop fabricating things out of nowhere.





You've got an generalised simplistic sentence for my actual specific point. I'll repeat it again and stand by it because i have yet to see any credible error being shown of it by you or others.


"All people are equal. This is distinct from people who struggle and are afflicted with homosexual thoughts, but as for acting on them, be life style or exercising human rights based on these ill notions, that are completely against the bible, this is what i don't support."


1) stop quoting other people's posts as mine.

2) stop fabricating things out of nowhere saying people said things they didn't say or meant things they didn't mean

3) when someone points out the above two things to you, it's not an attack and for you to render it as one only makes you look even less credible than you already did with the way you construct your case.

4) when you do quote something in these forums, don't put out a random quote, actually have the person's name next to it. Just because you didn't do this, doesn't mean myself or anyone else is going to be fooled into your argument. I recognise when i posted something and when i didn't, and so do others. So if you want to appear in the least bit convincing in your mounting an argument in anything, try following these 4 tips - it'll get you much further.

I genuinely thought you were Kayla Girl the whole way along this thread, my mistake. Looking back though, you did say you'd oppose gay marriage and gay adoption and you think any instance of people acting on or instating human rights on the basis of homosexual desire is wrong and you oppose it.

Given that evidence, my unchanged opinion applies to both you and KaylaGirl at this point.

 

[kennethcadwell]

You misunderstand the difference between supporting a lifestyle and allowing people their own freedoms to choose a lifestyle you disagree with. What you consider 'not supporting their lifestyle' is really being willing to make it illegal for them to live by any other lifestyle than the one you have chosen for yourself.

Be careful you don't step on the toes of your own rights while you're rushing to step on others'.

Giving someone else more rights under a legal system that demands nobody's rights infringe on anybody else's is of no detriment to you. Allowing legal gay marriage is of no detriment to you whatsoever. Such a law does not demand that you be gay. Such a law infringes your rights in no way.

Which is what I said all along.
I do not have to agree with their lifestyle, nor do I have to vote to make it legal for them to get married.
I can vote against all I want, for that is my Christian moral to uphold to not agree with legalizing sin and it is also my American freedom to vote however I wish.
For a Christian to vote yes on legalizing same sex marriage is by biblical standards taking part in that sin, and supporting it. Paul warns Timothy to not do that, or it will make him impure again by sin by taking part in theirs.

If they get their right to do this, they get it. I can not stop them, but I can continue to not support their sin and still be nice and friendly to them when I am around them. We are not to show hatred toward them, as we are called to love all people. But once again like I said, being king and showing love to them does not mean you have to support their lifestyle.

 

[Siberian_Khatru]

I'm not opposed to Christianity in the same way she is opposed to homosexuality, that's why you're yet to see me show outright disdain for a person. I don't believe I should dictate that people be non-Christian in the same way this woman thinks that people should abide by the Christian moral ethic, nor do I believe I should attempt to convert people from Christianity in the way that this women believes she should convert people from atheism. I don't believe that I should have any power to vote in laws that discriminate against Christianity or disallow people to practice it in the way that she believes she should be able to vote in laws that disallow gay sex, gay adoption and gay marriage.

I don't oppose Christianity in a manner that seeks to demonize it or to subject its adherents to abuse in the same way that people tend to oppose homosexuality as 'the devil's work' or call these people out as morally repugnant wastes of space morally equivalent to paedophiles and those who have sex with animals. Nor do I believe I should shun Christians out of society in the way homosexuals often are.

In fact, I don't oppose Christianity as a religion whatsoever. I believe unwaveringly in the right for a person to practice their religion as a matter of personal right. What I oppose is the oppression that comes from, usually staunch, forms of Christianity that extend that right to practice and assume it is a right to encorach on others' dignity. I oppose the hatred and vitriol that arises in that.

I'll have to take your word on this.

I can't tell whether you're indirectly villainizing one or more people in part of this post or not, but I do appreciate the time and thought you invested into it (and some other posts).

 

[Percepi]

Yes,I believe gay sex is wrong and I dont see it as natural.I vote accordingly.I dont hate anyone,simply dont agree.

I don't agree with drinking alcohol, but I'm not going to vote to outlaw it. You're not voting on your personal preferences, you're voting on what people are and are not allowed to do.

You aren't voting on whether or not gay sex is okay or not, you're voting on whether or not people can have gay sex. Same with gay marriage.

Just because something is wrong doesn't mean it should be illegal. Some things must be left up to the individual. Gay sex and gay marriage might be wrong, but it's a decision one should be able to make.

Someone else responded to me talking about how homosexuality isn't defended in the Constitution, yet religious freedom is. I can't be bothered quoting them since the quote is on a different page. I have one simple rebuttal - Forcing other people to act or preventing them from acting based solely on religion IS unconstitutional. The 1st Amendment not only protects religious freedom, but states that the government shall not create laws based on religion. Banning homosexuality based solely on religious reasoning is literally unconstitutional.

 

[Siberian_Khatru]

Just because something is wrong doesn't mean it should be illegal.

Dat wording...

 

[kennethcadwell]

I don't agree with drinking alcohol, but I'm not going to vote to outlaw it. You're not voting on your personal preferences, you're voting on what people are and are not allowed to do.

You aren't voting on whether or not gay sex is okay or not, you're voting on whether or not people can have gay sex. Same with gay marriage.

Just because something is wrong doesn't mean it should be illegal. Some things must be left up to the individual. Gay sex and gay marriage might be wrong, but it's a decision one should be able to make.

Someone else responded to me talking about how homosexuality isn't defended in the Constitution, yet religious freedom is. I can't be bothered quoting them since the quote is on a different page. I have one simple rebuttal - Forcing other people to act or preventing them from acting based solely on religion IS unconstitutional. The 1st Amendment not only protects religious freedom, but states that the government shall not create laws based on religion. Banning homosexuality based solely on religious reasoning is literally unconstitutional.

We must take our Christian morals into perspective and what the bible says over all though, and in such we see an example of this when Paul is warning Timothy on the same type of guidelines as this. If you vote yes to let same sex marriage legal which the bible says is a sin, then you make yourself a partaker of that sin by supporting it and calling something that is unacceptable in Gods eyes as being acceptable.
So as a Christian we should always vote no, and we should never place mans laws and rights over what God has set before us.

 

[Kerry]

We must take our Christian morals into perspective and what the bible says over all though, and in such we see an example of this when Paul is warning Timothy on the same type of guidelines as this. If you vote yes to let same sex marriage legal which the bible says is a sin, then you make yourself a partaker of that sin by supporting it and calling something that is unacceptable in Gods eyes as being acceptable.
So as a Christian we should always vote no, and we should never place mans laws and rights over what God has set before us.

Yes, those that condone such actions are just as guilty and even more guilty than the ones that practice. Even in the cases of states legalising Mary Jane.

 

[Percepi]

We must take our Christian morals into perspective and what the bible says over all though, and in such we see an example of this when Paul is warning Timothy on the same type of guidelines as this. If you vote yes to let same sex marriage legal which the bible says is a sin, then you make yourself a partaker of that sin by supporting it and calling something that is unacceptable in Gods eyes as being acceptable.
So as a Christian we should always vote no, and we should never place mans laws and rights over what God has set before us.

Are you suggesting it should be illegal to use God's name in vein?
Are you suggesting is should be required to go to church or to take a day off to praise God?
Are you suggesting it should be illegal to worship anyone other than God?

If you support religious freedom, then you can not say yes to any of the above 3 questions. If you do support religious freedom and you believe the mentioned things are wrong, but shouldn't be illegal, then you're contradicting your own argument against gay marriage.

You believe gay non-Christians should not be allowed to have non-Christian marriage because Christian law? You're literally no better than those who support the Islamic State. What you said is anti-freedom. It's unAmerican.

 

[Word_Swordsman]

The RCC can't take credit for what God already did many times over in the scriptures. Plus, one needs only add in some common sense to see His way is right.

 

[Percepi]

The RCC can't take credit for what God already did many times over in the scriptures. Plus, one needs only add in some common sense to see His way is right.

Common sense is a non-argument since it appeals solely to a person's intuition. And intuition, my friend, is often wrong.

 

[Kerry]

Are you suggesting it should be illegal to use God's name in vein?
Are you suggesting is should be required to go to church or to take a day off to praise God?
Are you suggesting it should be illegal to worship anyone other than God?

If you support religious freedom, then you can not say yes to any of the above 3 questions. If you do support religious freedom and you believe the mentioned things are wrong, but shouldn't be illegal, then you're contradicting your own argument against gay marriage.

You believe gay non-Christians should not be allowed to have non-Christian marriage because Christian law? You're literally no better than those who support the Islamic State. What you said is anti-freedom. It's unAmerican.

Percipty or whatever, what you don't understand is that there is no freedom without God. In the 1950's you could walk the streets of Atlanta at night without fear, you can't do that now, reckon why? When I went to public school we said the pledge of allegiance and then had prayer and no one got shot up, now it's not safe to send little Johnny to school, reckon why?

We used to have the ten commandments posted in our court houses and now there is no justice, reckon why? The bible say' that adults will fear their children, isn't that whats happening now? I meant it's teen agers commiting these haneous crimes. A people that believes and trust God, it is like silver is nothing and gold is on the toilet seat. But, since America has said we don't need God, unemployment is at it's highest and we couldn't win a war no matter how hard we tried even with all of our technology. Why? because we as a nation have rejected God and you are a part of that. Thankyou for causing the failure of America. and when our daughters sacrifice their children to Molech, Destruction is the next page.