Was Solomon Saved?

[EbalT5]

There is a difference between rebuking and mocking. Paul did not verbally attack Peter in a childish way and call him names or poke fun at him, though.

Christians are not supposed to mock others. For It is written...

Matthew 15:11 ESV

"It is not what goes into the mouth that defiles a person, but what comes out of the mouth; this defiles a person.”

​

Ephesians 5:4

"Neither filthiness, nor foolish talking, nor jesting, which are not convenient: but rather giving of thanks."

​

Proverbs 26:18-19 NIV

18 "Like a maniac shooting flaming arrows of death

19 is one who deceives their neighbor and says,

"I was only joking!""

​

Colossians 4:6

"Let your speech be alway with grace, seasoned with salt, that ye may know how ye ought to answer every man."

​

Ephesians 4:29 ESV

"Let no corrupting talk come out of your mouths, but only such as is good for building up, as fits the occasion, that it may give grace to those who hear."

​

Proverbs 18:20-21

20 "A man's belly shall be satisfied with the fruit of his mouth; and with the increase of his lips shall he be filled.

21 Death and life are in the power of the tongue: and they that love it shall eat the fruit thereof."

​

James 1:26

"If any man among you seem to be religious, and bridleth not his tongue, but deceiveth his own heart, this man's religion is vain."

​

Titus 2:7-8 ESV

"Show yourself in all respects to be a model of good works, and in your teaching show integrity, dignity, and sound speech that cannot be condemned, so that an opponent may be put to shame, having nothing evil to say about us."

​

Matthew 12:36

"But I say unto you, That every idle word that men shall speak, they shall give account thereof in the day of judgment."

​

Lashon Ha-Ra
　
Leviticus 19:16
You shall not go about as a slanderer among your people, and you are not to act against the life of your neighbor; I am the Lord.

Leviticus 25:17 says, "You shall not wrong one another." This has traditionally been interpreted as wronging a person with speech. It includes any statement that will embarrass, insult or deceive a person, or cause a person emotional pain or distress.


Read what Jesus said speaking to the multitude and his disciples.
Matthew 5:22 (New American Standard Bible)
22"But I say to you that everyone who is angry with his brother shall be guilty before the court; and whoever says to his brother, 'You good-for-nothing,' shall be guilty before the supreme court; and whoever says, 'You fool,' shall be guilty enough to go into the fiery hell.

Notice how Jesus condemns those who are angry with their brother.
Notice how Jesus particularly condemns those who call people "fool."

Now let's look at how Jesus behaved in Matthew chapter 23.
Jesus became angry with the Scribes and Pharisees calling them hypocrites seven times. Technically all men of Israel were his brothers. [Deut 3:18] He was angry with his brothers.
"" You fools and blind men! "" Matthew 23:17
""Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you are like whitewashed tombs which on the outside appear beautiful, but inside they are full of dead men's bones and all uncleanness. "" Matthew 23:27 IMO a major insult.
"""You serpents, you brood of vipers "" Matthew 23:33 Now Jesus is really getting angry and laying on the insults.

You be the judge.
Did Jesus follow his own advice ?


​

 

[Kerry]

Lashon Ha-Ra
　
Leviticus 19:16
You shall not go about as a slanderer among your people, and you are not to act against the life of your neighbor; I am the Lord.

Leviticus 25:17 says, "You shall not wrong one another." This has traditionally been interpreted as wronging a person with speech. It includes any statement that will embarrass, insult or deceive a person, or cause a person emotional pain or distress.


Read what Jesus said speaking to the multitude and his disciples.
Matthew 5:22 (New American Standard Bible)
22"But I say to you that everyone who is angry with his brother shall be guilty before the court; and whoever says to his brother, 'You good-for-nothing,' shall be guilty before the supreme court; and whoever says, 'You fool,' shall be guilty enough to go into the fiery hell.

Notice how Jesus condemns those who are angry with their brother.
Notice how Jesus particularly condemns those who call people "fool."

Now let's look at how Jesus behaved in Matthew chapter 23.
Jesus became angry with the Scribes and Pharisees calling them hypocrites seven times. Technically all men of Israel were his brothers. [Deut 3:18] He was angry with his brothers.
"" You fools and blind men! "" Matthew 23:17
""Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you are like whitewashed tombs which on the outside appear beautiful, but inside they are full of dead men's bones and all uncleanness. "" Matthew 23:27 IMO a major insult.
"""You serpents, you brood of vipers "" Matthew 23:33 Now Jesus is really getting angry and laying on the insults.

You be the judge.
Did Jesus follow his own advice ?


[/INDENT]

Are you saying that Jesus is not saved?

 

[ELECT]

Lashon Ha-Ra
　
Leviticus 19:16
You shall not go about as a slanderer among your people, and you are not to act against the life of your neighbor; I am the Lord.

Leviticus 25:17 says, "You shall not wrong one another." This has traditionally been interpreted as wronging a person with speech. It includes any statement that will embarrass, insult or deceive a person, or cause a person emotional pain or distress.


Read what Jesus said speaking to the multitude and his disciples.
Matthew 5:22 (New American Standard Bible)
22"But I say to you that everyone who is angry with his brother shall be guilty before the court; and whoever says to his brother, 'You good-for-nothing,' shall be guilty before the supreme court; and whoever says, 'You fool,' shall be guilty enough to go into the fiery hell.

Notice how Jesus condemns those who are angry with their brother.
Notice how Jesus particularly condemns those who call people "fool."

Now let's look at how Jesus behaved in Matthew chapter 23.
Jesus became angry with the Scribes and Pharisees calling them hypocrites seven times. Technically all men of Israel were his brothers. [Deut 3:18] He was angry with his brothers.
"" You fools and blind men! "" Matthew 23:17
""Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you are like whitewashed tombs which on the outside appear beautiful, but inside they are full of dead men's bones and all uncleanness. "" Matthew 23:27 IMO a major insult.
"""You serpents, you brood of vipers "" Matthew 23:33 Now Jesus is really getting angry and laying on the insults.

You be the judge.
Did Jesus follow his own advice ?


[/INDENT]

[h=1]Ecclesiastes 3 King James Version (KJV)[/h]3 To every thing there is a season, and a time to every purpose under the heaven:

 

[Kerry]

It reminds me of a women that was against Christians drinking wine as I am. and some dude said you know Jesus drank wine and she said I know and thats the only thing I didn't like about Him.

 

[ELECT]

[h=1]Numbers 12:7-14King James Version (KJV)[/h]7 My servant Moses is not so, who is faithful in all mine house.
8 With him will I speak mouth to mouth, even apparently, and not in dark speeches; and the similitude of the Lord shall he behold: wherefore then were ye not afraid to speak against my servant Moses?
9 And the anger of the Lord was kindled against them; and he departed.
10 And the cloud departed from off the tabernacle; and, behold, Miriam became leprous, white as snow: and Aaron looked upon Miriam, and, behold, she was leprous.
11 And Aaron said unto Moses, Alas, my lord, I beseech thee, lay not the sin upon us, wherein we have done foolishly, and wherein we have sinned.
12 Let her not be as one dead, of whom the flesh is half consumed when he cometh out of his mother's womb.
13 And Moses cried unto the Lord, saying, Heal her now, O God, I beseech thee.
14 And the Lord said unto Moses, If her father had but spit in her face, should she not be ashamed seven days? let her be shut out from the camp seven days, and after that let her be received in again.

 

[Jason0047]

Lashon Ha-Ra
　
Leviticus 19:16
You shall not go about as a slanderer among your people, and you are not to act against the life of your neighbor; I am the Lord.

Leviticus 25:17 says, "You shall not wrong one another." This has traditionally been interpreted as wronging a person with speech. It includes any statement that will embarrass, insult or deceive a person, or cause a person emotional pain or distress.


Read what Jesus said speaking to the multitude and his disciples.
Matthew 5:22 (New American Standard Bible)
22"But I say to you that everyone who is angry with his brother shall be guilty before the court; and whoever says to his brother, 'You good-for-nothing,' shall be guilty before the supreme court; and whoever says, 'You fool,' shall be guilty enough to go into the fiery hell.

Notice how Jesus condemns those who are angry with their brother.
Notice how Jesus particularly condemns those who call people "fool."

Now let's look at how Jesus behaved in Matthew chapter 23.
Jesus became angry with the Scribes and Pharisees calling them hypocrites seven times. Technically all men of Israel were his brothers. [Deut 3:18] He was angry with his brothers.
"" You fools and blind men! "" Matthew 23:17
""Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you are like whitewashed tombs which on the outside appear beautiful, but inside they are full of dead men's bones and all uncleanness. "" Matthew 23:27 IMO a major insult.
"""You serpents, you brood of vipers "" Matthew 23:33 Now Jesus is really getting angry and laying on the insults.

You be the judge.
Did Jesus follow his own advice ?


[/INDENT]

First, you are not the Son of God to do everything that the Son of God did because He is the Creator of the Universe and you are just the creation. The Lord is the potter and we are just the clay. God is everything and we are nothing. For the moment you think you are something is to deceive oneself.

Second, if what you say is true, then we would have a contradiction in Scripture in many passages (As I had shown to you previously).

Third, quoting the passages in the Old Testament again does not apply to the believer who is under the New Covenant where clearly there are many changes.

Anyways, it doesn't appear we are going to agree any time soon on this topic, so I think we should stick to the topic at hand, my friend.

 

[Jason0047]

Side Note:

Who would have thought that a discussion on Solomon's standing with God would be such a touchy subject or lead into some intense disagreements?

 

[ELECT]

First, you are not the Son of God to do everything that the Son of God did because He is the Creator of the Universe and you are just the creation. The Lord is the potter and we are just the clay. God is everything and we are nothing. For the moment you think you are something is to deceive oneself.

Second, if what you say is true, then we would have a contradiction in Scripture in many passages (As I had shown to you previously).

Third, quoting the passages in the Old Testament again does not apply to the believer who is under the New Covenant where clearly there are many changes.

Anyways, it doesn't appear we are going to agree any time soon on this topic, so I think we should stick to the topic at hand, my friend.

[h=1]Proverbs 26:4-5King James Version (KJV)[/h]4 Answer not a fool according to his folly, lest thou also be like unto him.
5 Answer a fool according to his folly, lest he be wise in his own conceit.

 

[EbalT5]

First, you are not the Son of God to do everything that the Son of God did because He is the Creator of the Universe and you are just the creation. The Lord is the potter and we are just the clay. God is everything and we are nothing. For the moment you think you are something is to deceive oneself.

Second, if what you say is true, then we would have a contradiction in Scripture in many passages (As I had shown to you previously).

Third, quoting the passages in the Old Testament again does not apply to the believer who is under the New Covenant where clearly there are many changes.

Anyways, it doesn't appear we are going to agree any time soon on this topic, so I think we should stick to the topic at hand, my friend.

If Jesus intends to sit on the throne of David he is obligated to follow all the "rules" just like any common man.

Deuteronomy 17:18-20New American Standard Bible (NASB) [SUP]18 [/SUP]“Now it shall come about when he sits on the throne of his kingdom, he shall write for himself a copy of this law on a scroll in the presence of the Levitical priests. [SUP]19 [/SUP]It shall be with him and he shall read it all the days of his life, that he may learn to fear the Lord his God, by carefully observing all the words of this law and these statutes, [SUP]20 [/SUP]that his heart may not be lifted up above his countrymen and that he may not turn aside from the commandment, to the right or the left, so that he and his sons may continue long in his kingdom in the midst of Israel.

No special "get overs" for Kings, no matter who they are.

 

[ELECT]

First, you are not the Son of God to do everything that the Son of God did because He is the Creator of the Universe and you are just the creation. The Lord is the potter and we are just the clay. God is everything and we are nothing. For the moment you think you are something is to deceive oneself.

Second, if what you say is true, then we would have a contradiction in Scripture in many passages (As I had shown to you previously).

Third, quoting the passages in the Old Testament again does not apply to the believer who is under the New Covenant where clearly there are many changes.

Anyways, it doesn't appear we are going to agree any time soon on this topic, so I think we should stick to the topic at hand, my friend.

[h=1]Luke 24:25King James Version (KJV)[/h]25 Then he said unto them, O fools, and slow of heart to believe all that the prophets have spoken:

 

[EbalT5]

Proverbs 26:4-5King James Version (KJV)

4 Answer not a fool according to his folly, lest thou also be like unto him.
5 Answer a fool according to his folly, lest he be wise in his own conceit.

Too late...I already answered.

 

[Jason0047]

Anyways, getting back on topic...

 

[Brainfreeze]

Oh, and 2 Samuel 7:15 cannot be talking about Jesus because verse 14 talks about how if he will commit iniquity he will be corrected with the rod of men and with the stripes of the children of men; And we know it is a Biblical fact that Solomon and not David was to build the Temple. Clearly verse 15 in 2 Samuel 7 is talking about Solomon. For Solomon had built the Temple.

This is a very interesting topic Jason, and yes a quite heated one ... Now that I fully read 2 Samuel again, I believe your correct, God is speaking of solomon there...but don't you think for mercy to be successful in ones life, there has to be a repenting heart ? Or do you think one can do whatever they want and go to heaven anyway, as for why God would choose solomon to build the temple, saying David had to much blood on his hands, solomon was no better, actually worse " worshiping false gods ", but how can we say " it is well known " who wrote a book if it doesn't say that in said book ? If solomon wrote it, why wouldn't he use his name ?

 

[Jason0047]

This is a very interesting topic Jason, and yes a quite heated one ... Now that I fully read 2 Samuel again, I believe your correct, God is speaking of solomon there...but don't you think for mercy to be successful in ones life, there has to be a repenting heart ? Or do you think one can do whatever they want and go to heaven anyway, as for why God would choose solomon to build the temple, saying David had to much blood on his hands, solomon was no better, actually worse " worshiping false gods ", but how can we say " it is well known " who wrote a book if it doesn't say that in said book ? If solomon wrote it, why wouldn't he use his name ?

Thank you for re-reading the 2 Samuel 7 and being open to what it is saying. Oh, and yes. I agree that repentance is necessary for salvation to take place. But Lot was mentioned as being "righteous" or "just" by Peter (2 Peter 2:7) and yet we see no clue or indication that he ever repented in the Scriptures. However, we have the testimony of the rest of Scripture that repentance is a necessary step in being saved, though; So we have to conclude that if Peter called Lot "just" or "righteous", then Lot no doubt had to repent of his sins in order to be called "just" by Peter. For we clearly see Lot doing sinful things like offering up his daughter to the attackers and Lot getting drunk which opened the door for more sin to take place. So we must conclude Lot repented, even though Scripture does not mention it.

As for Solomon being the author of Ecclesiastes:

Well, I have offered three major reasons in the book itself that this is the case. For as I said before, what other son of David and King of Jerusalem had wisdom unlike any other previous King in Jerusalem? We know clearly from Scripture that Solomon was given wisdom to him by God himself. Solomon was known for his wisdom. The book of Ecclesiastes also focuses on the futility of seeking after pleasure and or the things of this world such as women and or riches; Something that Solomon had in great abundance. In other words, it's like hearing an elephant close by and seeing fresh tusk marks all over the trees and newly made elephant footprints to get the clue or idea that an elephant had just traveled upon the path you are on. If you still don't accept that, then all I can say is ask the Lord to show you the truth on this matter and He will (Jeremiah 33:3).

 

[Brainfreeze]

Another question wasn't the temple " symbolic " for something else ?



16Do you not know that you are a temple of God and that the Spirit of God dwells in you? 17If any man destroys the temple of God, God will destroy him, for the temple of God is holy, and that is what you are.…

 

[Jason0047]

Another question wasn't the temple " symbolic " for something else ?



16Do you not know that you are a temple of God and that the Spirit of God dwells in you? 17If any man destroys the temple of God, God will destroy him, for the temple of God is holy, and that is what you are.…

This is in context to those whom God knows will never turn back to the faith and they have chosen a life of sin whereby the do not desire to ever come back to the Lord ----> As a Final Choice. I would label this as a person who had a spurious faith in Christ and or walk with God that had no root in the Lord and or His Word so as to overcome the cares of this life and or persecution. But we have to remember that only God knows a person's heart, though. Only God knows a person's future and what they are going to ultimately do. For the prodigal son had lived a life for himself away from the Father and then came back realizing the futility in the vanity of sin and or it's pleasure. The prodigal son was welcomed back when he came back home to the father.

 

[Brainfreeze]

As for Solomon being the author of Ecclesiastes:

Well, I have offered three major reasons in the book itself that this is the case. For as I said before, what other son of David and King of Jerusalem had wisdom unlike any other previous King in Jerusalem? We know clearly from Scripture that Solomon was given wisdom to him by God himself. Solomon was known for his wisdom. The book of Ecclesiastes also focuses on the futility of seeking after pleasure and or the things of this world such as women and or riches; Something that Solomon had in great abundance. In other words, it's like hearing an elephant close by and seeing fresh tusk marks all over the trees and newly made elephant footprints to get the clue or idea that an elephant had just traveled upon the path you are on. If you still don't accept that, then all I can say is ask the Lord to show you the truth on this matter and He will (Jeremiah 33:3).

Yes the book alludes to solomon, you should've posted this verse... It would've brought me to a better understanding that he did indeed write Ecclesiastes ...

9And moreover, because the preacher was wise, he still taught the people knowledge; yea, he gave good heed, and sought out, and set in order many proverbs. 10The preacher sought to find out acceptable words: and that which was written was upright, even words of truth.

 

[Jason0047]

Yes the book alludes to solomon, you should've posted this verse... It would've brought me to a better understanding that he did indeed write Ecclesiastes ...

9And moreover, because the preacher was wise, he still taught the people knowledge; yea, he gave good heed, and sought out, and set in order many proverbs. 10The preacher sought to find out acceptable words: and that which was written was upright, even words of truth.

I see Ecclesiastes 12:9-10 as being more prophetic of Jesus Christ. For Jesus grew in wisdom (Luke 2:52), and Jesus was a preacher, because he preached repentance (Matthew 4:17). Jesus also spoke in many proverbs (i.e. parables) (Matthew 13:34).

Actually, I believe Ecclesiastes 5 and 1 Corinthians 3 have more in common with each other.

For we can see a slight parallel of these two chapters; For...

#1. One's conduct in God's Temple and one's approach towards Riches in Ecclesiastes 5 (verus)
#2. One's building upon gold, silver, or other riches (with Jesus being the foundation) in addition to one's wrong conduct being compared to God destroying the Temple.

But if 1 Corinthians 3 has helped you to see that Solomon wrote Ecclesiastes, then may God bless you on that, my friend.

 

[Brainfreeze]

Boaz and Jachin - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
What do these mean Jason ?

 

[BradC]

I was not implying Saul had fellowship with God right before he took his own life. However, Saul did have fellowship with the Lord at one point in his life, though. For the Spirit of God departed from Saul (1 Samuel 16:14). Oh, and it was suicide. 1 Samuel 31:4 says, "Therefore Saul took a sword, and fell upon it."

Falling upon your sword when you have been fatally wounded, knowing that your time is at hand (from God), is not an act of suicide. Everything was taken from him, his anointing, his prophet and the kingdom of Israel, including now three of his sons in the battle against the Philistines. Saul died in battle as did his three sons and his armorbearer. David never mentions anything as to Saul's death that would relate to him taking his own life.

1 Sam 31:3-5
The battle became fierce against Saul. The archers hit him, and he was severely wounded by the archers. Then Saul said to his armorbearer, “Draw your sword, and thrust me through with it, lest these uncircumcised men come and thrust me through and abuse me.” But his armorbearer would not, for he was greatly afraid. Therefore Saul took a sword and fell on it. And when his armorbearer saw that Saul was dead, he also fell on his sword, and died with him. So Saul, his three sons, his armorbearer, and all his men died together that same day.

The only thing that 'falling upon his own sword' suggests is that Saul and Israel were defeated in battle. We should not make anything more of that, especially concerning suicide. For the issues of life and death belong to God and Saul was told that he would die in battle against the Philistine the very day he did.