Music in Church?

Jabberjaw · Dec 31, 2014

You are not reading the verses, we are commanded to "sing" and with the singing, make melody (twang the heart strings) in your heart., it is your heart that should be tapping to the singing, not the foot to the drum/guitar/etc...

the only instrument authorized is a stringed instrument, and it is the heart

kennethcadwell · Dec 31, 2014

Jabberjaw said:

Paul was making a point here that he, another apostle, or even a spirit claiming to be an angel from God can not preach to us a different gospel, standard, and Jesus then what our Lord Jesus already taught. They could only bring to us confirmation of what he already taught.

Back to the topic at hand it is true there is absolutely no scripture that bands the use of now day musical instruments in the church. The bible actual states the opposite that any music done in praise to Him is approved and accepted.

Blain · Dec 31, 2014

JesusLives said:

I apologize if I came across as sounding or being mean - my intent was to add humor as it has gotten serious and I was just trying to lighten things up a bit. God loves music as the angels sing and there are harps and probably instruments that we don't even know about being played in heaven. I will stop with the levity and let you guys continue to go at it as most times people don't listen to what you are writing anyway. Blond out.

Mom you werent mean in the least no worries♥

Angela53510 · Dec 31, 2014

oldhermit said:

So they worshipped with instruments in the temple to glorify God in the Old Testament, and in heaven in the New Testament.

But we do not have the freedom in this in between age? It makes no sense that we would suddenly stop using instruments for the church age, and they pick it up again in heaven, does it?

Bad exegesis, bad hermeneutics and bad doctrine. All man made, to say that we need to stop using instruments in worship in the New Testament.

Context requires that we interpret the Bible, not only in light of the verse, the chapter, the book and the Covenant, but also in context of the whole Bible. And even more important, in light of Jesus Christ, who talked about instruments, because the people did not have the heart attitude need to worship God in spirit and in truth, which means from the heart. Not the mechanics!

Don't use instruments if they offend your conscience, but stop trying to prove it is Biblical when it is not, and stop pretending you have the corner on the worship of God.

JesusistheChrist · Dec 31, 2014

Jabberjaw said:

Hi, Jabberjaw.

What's my middle name?

Why do I ask?

Well, seeing how you're omniscient and all in that you KNOW that everybody who worships God with musical accompaniment "taps their foot", I just figured that you'd be equally omniscient in relation to my middle name.

Well, what is it?

Seriously, your argument is nonsensical.

If you have a "foot tapping" problem, then deal with it...but don't project the same unto the rest of Christendom. Thanks.

posthuman · Dec 31, 2014

Jabberjaw said:

why do you take "singing" as an exclusive command, but don't take "speaking to yourselves in psalms" as exclusive? it's the same sentence, you know.

sounds picky-choosey to me.

i know i've asked a couple of times already, but seems like this question is getting dodged.

i still haven't heard back from anyone on how i'm supposed to use my God-given talent to play rhythm instruments for His glory either.

*waits*

Jabberjaw · Dec 31, 2014

posthuman said:

Maybe if you could show me where a stringed musical instrument having a long, fretted neck and a hollow, typically pear-shaped body with a vaulted back is used by the NT church (from Pentecost until now) Ill try and get one and take it to church with me

oldhermit · Dec 31, 2014

Angela53510 said:

Ok! Let's take a stab at it.

"addressing one another in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing and making melody to the Lord with your heart," Eph. 5:19

"Let the word of Christ dwell in you richly, teaching and admonishing one another in all wisdom, singing psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, with thankfulness in your hearts to God." Col. 3:16

So the New Testament says to use PSALMS, right??

So going to the actual psalms, we find that using instruments is actually an INSTRUCTION, and in Hebrew, these headings are actually the first verse of the psalm. It is English that for some reason puts the heading into an instruction, rather than being part of the Psalm.

To the choirmaster: with stringed instruments. A Psalm of David Psalm 4

To the choirmaster: for the flutes. A Psalm of David. Psalm 5,

To the choirmaster: with stringed instruments; according to The Sheminith. A Psalm of David. Psalm 6

To the choirmaster: with stringed instruments. A Maskil of David, when the Ziphites went and told Saul, “Is not David hiding among us?” Psalm 54

To the choirmaster: with stringed instruments. A Maskil of David. Psalm 55

To the choirmaster: with stringed instruments. Of David. Psalm 61

To the choirmaster: with stringed instruments. A Psalm. A Song. Psalm 67

To the choirmaster: with stringed instruments. A Psalm of Asaph. A Song Psalm 76

These are the instructions of what you are supposed to do in a psalm! Your church obviously fails to define PSALM correctly! No one ever has posts here about how we are NOT to obey the 10 commandments, because they are Old Testament. So why do you want to abandon what the Bible says about using instruments, when it is NOT prohibited in either New or Old Testament?? The instruction to use the Psalms was understood by the congregations Paul wrote to, to use instruments. Or he would have just said "sing" and nothing about Psalms!

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Strong's Concordance
psalmos: a striking (of musical strings), a psalm

Original Word: ψαλμός, οῦ, ὁ
Part of Speech: Noun, Masculine
Transliteration: psalmos
Phonetic Spelling: (psal-mos')
Short Definition: a psalm
Definition: a psalm, song of praise, the Hebrew book of Psalms.

HELPS Word-studies

5568 psalmós – a psalm ("Scripture set to music"). Originally, a psalm (5568 /psalmós) was sung and accompanied by a plucked musical instrument (typically a harp), especially the OT Psalms.
[The Psalms of the OT were often sung and were accompanied by sophisticated musical arrangements.]

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NAS Exhaustive Concordance

Word Origin
from psalló
Definition
a striking (of musical strings), a psalm

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"Many psalms (116 of the 150) have individual superscriptions (titles), ranging from lengthy comments to a single word. Over a third appear to be musical directions, addressed to the "leader" or "choirmaster," including such statements as "with stringed instruments" and "according to lilies." Others appear to be references to types of musical composition, such as "A psalm" and "Song," or directions regarding the occasion for using the psalm ("On the dedication of the temple," "For the memorial of"

Psalms - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Yes Angela, I am aware of all of this and I am not questioning the legitimacy of the use of instruments under the Law. I am not even questioning the fact that God appears to have been pleased with them in this. In fact he even instructed them in this. My question is very simple. If this is how the statements by Paul to Ephesus and Colossae were intended to be understood, why did they refuse to obey this apostolic directive?

1still_waters · Dec 31, 2014

oldhermit said:

As we see his kingdom in heaven is established and has music.....

If one is going to be dogmatic on things that reflect the kingdom, I'd think we'd side on the for sure image we have of that kingdom, ie..one that has instruments...instead of siding with an image that doesn't exist..ie no example of the kingdom without musical instruments..

tourist · Dec 31, 2014

Angela53510 said:

Ok! Let's take a stab at it.

"addressing one another in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing and making melody to the Lord with your heart," Eph. 5:19

"Let the word of Christ dwell in you richly, teaching and admonishing one another in all wisdom, singing psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, with thankfulness in your hearts to God." Col. 3:16

So the New Testament says to use PSALMS, right??

So going to the actual psalms, we find that using instruments is actually an INSTRUCTION, and in Hebrew, these headings are actually the first verse of the psalm. It is English that for some reason puts the heading into an instruction, rather than being part of the Psalm.

To the choirmaster: with stringed instruments. A Psalm of David Psalm 4

To the choirmaster: for the flutes. A Psalm of David. Psalm 5,

To the choirmaster: with stringed instruments; according to The Sheminith. A Psalm of David. Psalm 6

To the choirmaster: with stringed instruments. A Maskil of David, when the Ziphites went and told Saul, “Is not David hiding among us?” Psalm 54

To the choirmaster: with stringed instruments. A Maskil of David. Psalm 55

To the choirmaster: with stringed instruments. Of David. Psalm 61

To the choirmaster: with stringed instruments. A Psalm. A Song. Psalm 67

To the choirmaster: with stringed instruments. A Psalm of Asaph. A Song Psalm 76

These are the instructions of what you are supposed to do in a psalm! Your church obviously fails to define PSALM correctly! No one ever has posts here about how we are NOT to obey the 10 commandments, because they are Old Testament. So why do you want to abandon what the Bible says about using instruments, when it is NOT prohibited in either New or Old Testament?? The instruction to use the Psalms was understood by the congregations Paul wrote to, to use instruments. Or he would have just said "sing" and nothing about Psalms!

[TABLE="class: maintable3, width: 100%"]
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Strong's Concordance
psalmos: a striking (of musical strings), a psalm

Original Word: ψαλμός, οῦ, ὁ
Part of Speech: Noun, Masculine
Transliteration: psalmos
Phonetic Spelling: (psal-mos')
Short Definition: a psalm
Definition: a psalm, song of praise, the Hebrew book of Psalms.

HELPS Word-studies

5568 psalmós – a psalm ("Scripture set to music"). Originally, a psalm (5568 /psalmós) was sung and accompanied by a plucked musical instrument (typically a harp), especially the OT Psalms.
[The Psalms of the OT were often sung and were accompanied by sophisticated musical arrangements.]

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[TABLE="class: maintable3, width: 100%"]
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[TABLE="align: center"]
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[TD]

NAS Exhaustive Concordance

Word Origin
from psalló
Definition
a striking (of musical strings), a psalm

[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

"Many psalms (116 of the 150) have individual superscriptions (titles), ranging from lengthy comments to a single word. Over a third appear to be musical directions, addressed to the "leader" or "choirmaster," including such statements as "with stringed instruments" and "according to lilies." Others appear to be references to types of musical composition, such as "A psalm" and "Song," or directions regarding the occasion for using the psalm ("On the dedication of the temple," "For the memorial of"

Psalms - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

This post provides the most biblical understanding in this thread concerning the use of musical instruments in the worship of the Lord and is outstanding in its content.

peacefulbeliever · Dec 31, 2014

Jabberjaw said:

Well . . . I don't see that these scriptures read that way. They specifically say singing with grace in your hearts.

AND
singing and making melody in your heart to the Lord;

Nothing about the twang of my heart strings or tapping . . . . nor is my heart a stringed instrument. . . . so are we reading into the verses?

posthuman · Dec 31, 2014

Jabberjaw said:

here you go:

[video=youtube;YvhWTWpNWL0]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YvhWTWpNWL0[/video]

(Psalm 91 ↑)

tourist · Dec 31, 2014

oldhermit said:

Yes Angela, I am aware of all of this and I am not questioning the legitimacy of the use of instruments under the Law. I am not even questioning the fact that God appears to have been pleased with them in this. In fact he even instructed them in this. My question is very simple. If this is how the statements by Paul to Ephesus and Colossae were intended to be understood, why did they refuse to obey this apostolic directive?

Perhaps they were tone deaf or maybe they prefer rap music.

Jabberjaw · Dec 31, 2014

posthuman said:

Can you show me how i'm supposed to use my God given talent to fix Jet Airplanes for His glory?, maybe we should just stick with the God given ability He gave us and told us both to use, sing.

Jabberjaw · Dec 31, 2014

posthuman said:

Psalm 91 last I checked is not in the NT...

oldhermit · Dec 31, 2014

1still_waters said:

Well, if this reasoning is sound then let me pose the same question to you I posed to Angela. If the instrument was intended to be a part of the worship of the Church from the beginning why was it rejected in worship for at least the first 1000 years of Church history. Did the Early Church misunderstand Paul's instructions from the times of the apostles and ignore the illustration of the heavenly scene of the harps?

1still_waters · Dec 31, 2014

So Jesus told us to pray for God's will on Earth like we see in heaven.
Revelation 4 shows us God's kingdom in heaven.
It has harps.

So what clear spelled out example does the Bible give us for how things are established in heaven?
1. One that includes musical instruments.
2. One that doesn't include musical instruments.

Now if you're going to say the Lord's prayer is about establishing God's kingdom, and a clear example we have of that kingdom has musical instruments, then it makes total reasonable sense to say we should NOT have musical instruments?

That's like saying 1+1 = Mitt Romney's head being shaken by his wife.

Instead of saying 1+1=2

The premise and conclusion just don't connect.

1still_waters · Dec 31, 2014

oldhermit said:

If you're church of Christ, and you're appealing to church history and not the Bible, that gives you more in common with Papists and Rome. Assuming you're COC.

If you're not COC, it's still odd to appeal to church history.

posthuman · Dec 31, 2014

Jabberjaw said:

pretty sure that was performed and recorded by a member of the body of Christ during the time period "Pentecost up until now"

did you want to see someone playing a guitar and singing a spiritual song that was written in the A.D. era?
OK, here:

[video=youtube_share;kHyOq_5u-7Y]http://youtu.be/kHyOq_5u-7Y[/video]

are these, my sister and brother, not worshiping?

MsLimpet · Dec 31, 2014

posthuman said:

pretty sure that was performed and recorded by a member of the body of Christ during the time period "Pentecost up until now"

did you want to see someone playing a guitar and singing a spiritual song that was written in the A.D. era?
OK, here:

[video=youtube_share;kHyOq_5u-7Y]http://youtu.be/kHyOq_5u-7Y[/video]

are these, my sister and brother, not worshiping?

To whom are they worshiping?

Music in Church?

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