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Music in Church?
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I'm sorry, friend, I don't know what you mean.That sounds allot like the Pharisee and the Tax Collector, just the same guy and playing or not playing IM
Well the Scriptures are breathed out by God, so if praising God with "mechanical instruments" is somehow unprofitable or ungodly for every man, dont you think that God would leave a "mechanical instrument" out of description of Heaven in New Testament, even symbolically? As to eliminate "even the appearance of evil"? Dont you think that God would pick another description and not that wrong thing?
1 Corinthians 7:17-19
[SUP]17 [/SUP]Only, as the Lord has assigned to each one, as God has called each, in this manner let him walk. And so I direct in all the churches. [SUP]18 [/SUP]Was any man called when he was already circumcised? He is not to become uncircumcised. Has anyone been called in uncircumcision? He is not to be circumcised. [SUP]19 [/SUP]Circumcision is nothing, and uncircumcision is nothing, but what matters is the keeping of the commandments of God. [SUP]20 [/SUP]Each man must remain in that condition in which he was called.[SUP]21 [/SUP]Were you called while a slave? Do not worry about it; but if you are able also to become free, rather do that. [SUP]22 [/SUP]For he who was called in the Lord while a slave, is the Lord’s freedman; likewise he who was called while free, is Christ’s slave. [SUP]23 [/SUP]You were bought with a price; do not become slaves of men. [SUP]24 [/SUP]Brethren, each one is to remain with God in that condition in which he was called.
Music with Instruments is nothing and Music without Instruments is nothing, but what matters is the keeping of the commandments of God.
Yeah, I know that's not what it literally says, but I think that it is a reasonable application. There is no indication that anything changed regarding instruments being used in Worship. If you believe that it is wrong, then it is wrong - FOR YOU. But why is another man judged by your conscience.
However, I believe it to be wise to consider whether or not your choice is guided by your own desires or to glorify God and edify one another. I believe that there are those on both sides of the argument that have poor motives. I also believe that instrumental music should not be overwhelming (too loud, too many instruments, etc.). Worship service is not for entertainment, but for lifting up.
I currently attend an assembly that does not use instrumental music. I don't think that instrumental music is required or excluded in the New Testament. Leave it alone - We have real problems that need to be addressed.
Ephesians 5:6-21
[SUP]6 [/SUP]Let no one deceive you with empty words, for because of these things the wrath of God comes upon the sons of disobedience. [SUP]7 [/SUP]Therefore do not be partakers with them; [SUP]8 [/SUP]for you were formerly darkness, but now you are Light in the Lord; walk as children of Light [SUP]9 [/SUP](for the fruit of the Light consists in all goodness and righteousness and truth), [SUP]10 [/SUP]trying to learn what is pleasing to the Lord. [SUP]11 [/SUP]Do not participate in the unfruitful deeds of darkness, but instead even expose them; [SUP]12 [/SUP]for it is disgraceful even to speak of the things which are done by them in secret. [SUP]13 [/SUP]But all things become visible when they are exposed by the light, for everything that becomes visible is light. [SUP]14 [/SUP]For this reason it says,
“Awake, sleeper,
And arise from the dead,
And Christ will shine on you.”
[SUP]15 [/SUP]Therefore be careful how you walk, not as unwise men but as wise, [SUP]16 [/SUP]making the most of your time, because the days are evil. [SUP]17 [/SUP]So then do not be foolish, but understand what the will of the Lord is. [SUP]18 [/SUP]And do not get drunk with wine, for that is dissipation, but be filled with the Spirit, [SUP]19 [/SUP]speaking to one another in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing and making melody with your heart to the Lord; [SUP]20 [/SUP]always giving thanks for all things in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ to God, even the Father; [SUP]21 [/SUP]and be subject to one another in the fear of Christ.
Colossians 3:12-17
[SUP]12 [/SUP]So, as those who have been chosen of God, holy and beloved, put on a heart of compassion, kindness, humility, gentleness and patience; [SUP]13 [/SUP]bearing with one another, and forgiving each other, whoever has a complaint against anyone; just as the Lord forgave you, so also should you. [SUP]14 [/SUP]Beyond all these things put on love, which is the perfect bond of unity. [SUP]15 [/SUP]Let the peace of Christ rule in your hearts, to which indeed you were called in one body; and be thankful. [SUP]16 [/SUP]Let the word of Christ richly dwell within you, with all wisdom teaching and admonishing one another with psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing with thankfulness in your hearts to God. [SUP]17 [/SUP]Whatever you do in word or deed, do all in the name of the Lord Jesus, giving thanks through Him to God the Father.
I honestly don't understand how anyone can get "Thou shall not use instruments" from these verses. These verses tell us to speak and to admonish one another, with songs, and to be thankful, compassionate, kind, humble, gentle, patient, and forgiving! It did not say to argue about things that are not relevant.
[SUP]17 [/SUP]Only, as the Lord has assigned to each one, as God has called each, in this manner let him walk. And so I direct in all the churches. [SUP]18 [/SUP]Was any man called when he was already circumcised? He is not to become uncircumcised. Has anyone been called in uncircumcision? He is not to be circumcised. [SUP]19 [/SUP]Circumcision is nothing, and uncircumcision is nothing, but what matters is the keeping of the commandments of God. [SUP]20 [/SUP]Each man must remain in that condition in which he was called.[SUP]21 [/SUP]Were you called while a slave? Do not worry about it; but if you are able also to become free, rather do that. [SUP]22 [/SUP]For he who was called in the Lord while a slave, is the Lord’s freedman; likewise he who was called while free, is Christ’s slave. [SUP]23 [/SUP]You were bought with a price; do not become slaves of men. [SUP]24 [/SUP]Brethren, each one is to remain with God in that condition in which he was called.
Music with Instruments is nothing and Music without Instruments is nothing, but what matters is the keeping of the commandments of God.
Yeah, I know that's not what it literally says, but I think that it is a reasonable application. There is no indication that anything changed regarding instruments being used in Worship. If you believe that it is wrong, then it is wrong - FOR YOU. But why is another man judged by your conscience.
However, I believe it to be wise to consider whether or not your choice is guided by your own desires or to glorify God and edify one another. I believe that there are those on both sides of the argument that have poor motives. I also believe that instrumental music should not be overwhelming (too loud, too many instruments, etc.). Worship service is not for entertainment, but for lifting up.
I currently attend an assembly that does not use instrumental music. I don't think that instrumental music is required or excluded in the New Testament. Leave it alone - We have real problems that need to be addressed
.Ephesians 5:6-21
[SUP]6 [/SUP]Let no one deceive you with empty words, for because of these things the wrath of God comes upon the sons of disobedience. [SUP]7 [/SUP]Therefore do not be partakers with them; [SUP]8 [/SUP]for you were formerly darkness, but now you are Light in the Lord; walk as children of Light [SUP]9 [/SUP](for the fruit of the Light consists in all goodness and righteousness and truth), [SUP]10 [/SUP]trying to learn what is pleasing to the Lord. [SUP]11 [/SUP]Do not participate in the unfruitful deeds of darkness, but instead even expose them; [SUP]12 [/SUP]for it is disgraceful even to speak of the things which are done by them in secret. [SUP]13 [/SUP]But all things become visible when they are exposed by the light, for everything that becomes visible is light. [SUP]14 [/SUP]For this reason it says,
“Awake, sleeper,
And arise from the dead,
And Christ will shine on you.”
[SUP]15 [/SUP]Therefore be careful how you walk, not as unwise men but as wise, [SUP]16 [/SUP]making the most of your time, because the days are evil. [SUP]17 [/SUP]So then do not be foolish, but understand what the will of the Lord is. [SUP]18 [/SUP]And do not get drunk with wine, for that is dissipation, but be filled with the Spirit, [SUP]19 [/SUP]speaking to one another in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing and making melody with your heart to the Lord; [SUP]20 [/SUP]always giving thanks for all things in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ to God, even the Father; [SUP]21 [/SUP]and be subject to one another in the fear of Christ.
Colossians 3:12-17
[SUP]12 [/SUP]So, as those who have been chosen of God, holy and beloved, put on a heart of compassion, kindness, humility, gentleness and patience; [SUP]13 [/SUP]bearing with one another, and forgiving each other, whoever has a complaint against anyone; just as the Lord forgave you, so also should you. [SUP]14 [/SUP]Beyond all these things put on love, which is the perfect bond of unity. [SUP]15 [/SUP]Let the peace of Christ rule in your hearts, to which indeed you were called in one body; and be thankful. [SUP]16 [/SUP]Let the word of Christ richly dwell within you, with all wisdom teaching and admonishing one another with psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing with thankfulness in your hearts to God. [SUP]17 [/SUP]Whatever you do in word or deed, do all in the name of the Lord Jesus, giving thanks through Him to God the Father.
I honestly don't understand how anyone can get "Thou shall not use instruments" from these verses. These verses tell us to speak and to admonish one another, with songs, and to be thankful, compassionate, kind, humble, gentle, patient, and forgiving! It did not say to argue about things that are not relevant.
We cannot add to the scripture, not even for our own pleasure, the above verse you quoted (I removed the ones not pertinent) says "teaching and admonishing one another" therefore what ever it is we are to do is to "one another" so if you play a mechanical instrument to me, I must play one to you "to one another" meaning all the "one anothers" must play...
If you believe the verse approves of mechanical musical instruments then all must play them to one another.
But if you rightly divide the word of God, you easily draw the conclusion that God wants us all to use the voice (He gave us all one) to sing one to another (we can all do this, he is no respect of person) and the sound of all is enough to create a melody in our hearts (we all have this instrument) twanging (ψαλμοις Psallow) the strings of the heart, a metaphor no different than the one used in Acts 2:37 when the were "pricked in their heart".
Why must we add to the word of God to please our own bellies, Paul called this "will worship (KJV)" or "self imposed religion (NKJV) "εθελοθρησκεια" translated to English mean the same in both, it can to be called "false or counterfeit"
G1479 ἐθελοθρησκεία ethelothreskeia (eth-el-oth-race-kei'-ah) n.
1. willful (arbitrary and unwarranted) piety, i.e. pretended, false, or counterfeit observance (Mickelson)
Worship God the way He wants us to, not the way we want to.
1) I did not add to scripture
2) When one preaches, do you preach back or do you listen. When a miracle was performed on someone, did that person perform a miracle in return. If someone is an elder to you , does that make you an elder to them. I have heard this poor argument and it doesn't hold water.
3) As noted earlier, I meet in an assembly that does not use instruments, so how can I be making a claim in order to please myself? I actually prefer a non-instrumental worship service.
4) Well then, from what I read here, instrumental music is wrong for you...because of your conscience. That does not make it wrong for another because of your conscience.
I will most likely not be responding to this thread again because, as I said before, it is not relevant.
That is the poorest excuse of Biblical Twister I've ever seen. How about this one Jabs? Some people are mutes, whether born that way or through illness or injury, and they can not sing, thus according to you, you also can not sing. Sounds pretty dumb doesn't it? It should. And for the record, people who play and sing in worship are first and foremost playing and singing to God, not you. And you never did answered my question in post #252, but I'm sure I know which way you'd like to have it.
I used to interpret the song services for the deaf and the expressivness of these songs represented in sign language is really something to marvel at.
This thread makes me think about remaking some of the music with vocals I've composed on Psalms of the Bible to make also vocal only versions, so brothers and sisters who dont like usage of instruments in praise could also enjoy them. I wonder would this be welcomed, or rejected?
I've been to services where this is done and it's very moving. God bless you, oldhermit for the gifts you've shared.
Sounds like a win/win to me, and if it's done from love then by all means, share the glory!
LOL. It wasn't that much of a gift. I was never really that good at it but I was always really moved by the passion that was demonstrated in those people when they signed these songs. It just all really seemed to come from the heart.
They should try that with a guitar... and those that were deaf could be moved to tears by the song you signed to them because it twitched/twanged (It Psallo'd) their heart.
I don't know if they would enjoy them more or not, if they are there to worship God I would think they would like it more because it is biblical to not have them, as oldhermet said (and did) they can be signed, and if you have ever been to a large congregation that had "a cappella" only, it sounds and moves people much better than any mechanical instrument can do
God is always right.
Jabberjaw,
I guess no matter how much you try with your music to not offend and to make it available as a gift before God and a tool to minister and spread His Word, there will always be people to find fault and evil in everything.
Your post implies that worship music I make is ungodly or disapproved by God.
Well let me tell you that I cant complete not even ONE song without prayer and God's guidance and I praise and worship as I make my music.
And when I publish a song usually someone will tell me it ministered to them and they needed to hear it at that point of their walk they are in. It is not my work, it is God's work. Sometime I was led to send a song to someone although unfinished and it turned out they needed to hear it.
I like also purely vocal music so I guess I'd make some of it too. Agreed God is always right, so I'll do as led by Him and let the judges judge.
I guess no matter how much you try with your music to not offend and to make it available as a gift before God and a tool to minister and spread His Word, there will always be people to find fault and evil in everything.
Your post implies that worship music I make is ungodly or disapproved by God.
Well let me tell you that I cant complete not even ONE song without prayer and God's guidance and I praise and worship as I make my music.
And when I publish a song usually someone will tell me it ministered to them and they needed to hear it at that point of their walk they are in. It is not my work, it is God's work. Sometime I was led to send a song to someone although unfinished and it turned out they needed to hear it.
I like also purely vocal music so I guess I'd make some of it too. Agreed God is always right, so I'll do as led by Him and let the judges judge.
Study this :
Colossians 3:16 (KJV) Let the word of Christ dwell in you richly in all wisdom; teaching and admonishing one another in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing with grace in your hearts to the Lord.
Especially to the fact it is told for "all" to teach and admonish "one another" with psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, what ever these "psalms and hymns and spiritual songs" are, are to be done to "one another" meaning the command is for "all" so if it is say a guitar, then all MUST learn the guitar so as to play it to "one another" to obey the command...
Now that would be amusing...
What is better is as SoulWeaver said, leave the instruments out, use the voice, actual voice if you have it, internal voice like the one you can use with prayer if your mute, and sing to one another and the Lord, bring a twitch to the heart with the beautiful sound box God made, not man.