Capitalism, Wage Slavery and Western State Education

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Human

Banned
Oct 30, 2014
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Compulsory education in Western public state school systems is a method of control instated by those in power purposed to subjugate humans into a preexistent fiat-currency based socioeconomic model and to convince that such a model is the only viable one, in order to peserve, ultimately, the exclusive privelage of the rich at the cost of the poor.

Discuss.
 
That's a hard sell. The reason being, my ability to read that opening statement shows that compulsory education is not a form of control.
 
Compulsory education in Western public state school systems is a method of control instated by those in power purposed to subjugate humans into a preexistent fiat-currency based socioeconomic model and to convince that such a model is the only viable one, in order to peserve, ultimately, the exclusive privelage of the rich at the cost of the poor.

Discuss.

Preserve[SUP]*) :rolleyes:[/SUP]
 
That's a hard sell. The reason being, my ability to read that opening statement shows that compulsory education is not a form of control.

I don't think that statement's true; an ability to read fluent English (or any language) is necessary to feed you information; necessary for you to submit to and work within the paradigm you're taught in.

In Western primary and secondary state educational systems, most generally, a governmentally approved curricula is taught to children whose attendance at such institutions is legally compulsory, but to what end should governments demand that each and every child above infancy and below adulthood learn predefined curricula?

In contemporary thought it is often argued by parents and teachers alike that education provides children with the skills necessary to compete and survive in the modern world; education should provide, at a minimum, a level of knowledge that enables an individual to be accepted into gainful employment by an employer offering minimum wage (one of the skills required for such is a basic competency in written or spoken language), and at most a level of knowledge which enables an individual to excel far beyond the lowest tiers of employment into more lucrative livelihoods.

It is fair to say, then, that education is purposed to enable an individual to garner some level of currency in order to provide themselves with at least the sustenance required for physical nourishment. It is in principle that one should garner a particular level of currency which is relative to the degree to which one contributes to the socioeconomic system; be that a cleaner in a hotel earning minimum wage or a CEO of a financial institution whose annual bonuses are of a monetary value several thousand times that of the cleaner's yearly earnings. Clearly this means that those who contribute the most economically -- those who are rewarded most financially - have the most to lose should they detract from the system.

It is also a common notion that state educational systems might benefit children in this way. Under this foundational notion ''the education benefits the child'', there exist strict guidelines in various Western cultures to combat truancy, poor attendance, and non-conformism, under the pretence of ensuring that children are educated to a level that does in fact enable them to survive when they leave schooling.

In Western nations, it is highly unusual to encounter a person whose livelihood does not depend on the garnering of currency by some means or another – most people who have no money simply fall into poverty -- thus it would seem that any programme to provide children with the skills necessary to garner currency should have measures in place to limit the number of people who might detract and thus potentially end up in poverty. However, it is pertinent, for the sake of inquiry, to ask whether these punitive measures and limitations within schools are purely motivated by a desire to see children do well in life.

Certainly, from the teacher’s point of view it is necessary to implement punitive measures such as detention, exclusion or some other forms of punishment to not only encourage conformity in offenders but also to set an example to other potential detractors. But in a wider context, these punitive measures which are at ground-level seemingly motivated by a desire for what’s best for the children, begin to look more like a part of wider, much more oppressive, picture.

Consider that in order to garner vast sums of currency that should enable a person to live beyond bare necessity and into comfort and even luxury (currency, which is really the only way a person can live luxuriously), there are few, if any, means other than; business (the buying and selling of goods or services in exchange for currency, enabled by an educated knowledge of supply and demand and business practice); stock market trading (the trade of shares in various business companies [as above] which can directly affect the value of currency itself); or the education of oneself to a degree where one's qualifications provide higher salaries (as opposed to minimum wage labour) correlative to the level at which one contributes to society.

From the above we can deduce that human beings in Western cultures are pressed at educational levels into a primarily financially motivated social-educational system that penalizes non-conformity and severely limits a person's ability to choose any method of sustenance outside of its boundaries by perpetuating a climate that does not cater to those who deviate from currency as the means of trade and sustenance. It is by this implementation within state school systems wherein children are legally compelled to attend to learn information purposed to further their ability to contribute to the current socioeconomic system that human beings are initially subjugated by that system. Fiat-currency based capitalism is, in this respect, a self-containing socioeconomic system wherein people are given a false dilemma – currency or poverty -- which is considered a valid dilemma only because it is taught that the fiat currency based socioeconomic model is and must be the sole rational basis for both social and individual survival.

Aside from the conditioned thought (often imparted on the individual in state education) that precedes the notion that fiat-currency is the only viable basis for a socioeconomic model, I find no tangible evidence that the notion is true.
 
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Furthermore, the subjugation of the world's citizens into a socioeconomic model which is responsible for the disenfranchisement of billions who are uneducated in the ways that this socioeconomic system demands and who inevitably fall into poverty, while a select one percent who perpetuate this model earn wealth equal to the poorest three billion, is evidence of the sheer ineptness of the system itself.
 
I have wondered about this stuff. I know I have some beef with the special ed department in public schools. They are a needed group in our schools, of course. But I think it has some problems too. It often treats young people like they shouldnt aim too high, and sometimes they put kids in there for weird reasons, I know someone whos school tried to put him in special ed because he was left handed, this is not a lie. His parents had to fight it. I kinda wonder if all this is possible, I mean Ive heard of it, and we all know American students are getting worse. I would not be surprised if the world powers DID have some plan like this.

With all this going on, what can you do to stop it?
 
I have wondered about this stuff. I know I have some beef with the special ed department in public schools. They are a needed group in our schools, of course. But I think it has some problems too. It often treats young people like they shouldnt aim too high, and sometimes they put kids in there for weird reasons, I know someone whos school tried to put him in special ed because he was left handed, this is not a lie. His parents had to fight it. I kinda wonder if all this is possible, I mean Ive heard of it, and we all know American students are getting worse. I would not be surprised if the world powers DID have some plan like this.

With all this going on, what can you do to stop it?

Recognize the problem and work to weed it out. Oppose unrestricted trade; lobby for harsh penalties for insider trading; push for educational curricula that aren't founded in the principles of furthering the capitalist socioeconomic agenda; teach your kids more than one side of the argument; and actively pursue information that pulls you out of your comfort zone.
 
I think you have a better argument here against a universal curriculum than compulsory education though.
 
Correct me if I'm wrong, but it appears you are speaking about several topics here:

1) Capitalism being inadequate.
2) Minimum Wage being too low.
3) Forced public education being wrong.

From a United States of America perspective:

1: Regarding Captalism, it works - however; it has become Crony-Capitalism through special interests and deceit. Western cultures now have more of an Oligarchy than a free market. Fiat has replaced the gold standard, leaving our currency only backed by faith in paper.

2: I agree that wages are not keeping up with inflation, however some of the only people fighting to raise the minimum wage laws are Unions, then they add "Union Dues" along with their higher payment. That doesn't help the economy either. Neither can artificially inflating the minimum wage actually work, it just causes prices to go up and quality to go down overall.

In a true free market the non-crony business owner would be able to raise his wages without this being forced by the law; also having less taxes may inspire him/her to give more away as they would be making more.

Interesting discussion on this:
The Minimum Wage: Good Intentions, Bad Results : The Freeman : Foundation for Economic Education -->
If a young person is willing to wash cars for $2.50 an hour to gain work experience and self-esteem, is it the right of Congress to tell him he can’t do it? Is it, in fact, the right of any politician to make these kinds of economic choices for a free people?

Commenting again on the minimum wage, Williams makes this critical observation:

It is important to note that most people acquire work skills by working at “subnormal wages” which amounts to the same thing as paying to learn. For example, inexperienced doctors (interns), during their training, work at wages which are a tiny fraction of that of trained doctors. College students forego considerable amounts of money in the form of tuition and foregone income so that they may develop marketable skills. It is ironic, if not tragic, that low skilled youths from poor families are denied an opportunity to get a start in life. This is exactly what happens when a high minimum wage forbids low skilled workers to pay for job training in the form of a lower beginning wage.[SUP][3][/SUP]
​
In a free society, people must have the right to offer their services in the marketplace for whatever price they choose, whether they are workers serving employers or businesses serving consumers. It is by this process that productivity, wage rates, and prosperity are maximized. Government has no more business objecting to a low wage rate for a menial job than it has objecting to a business that offers its services or products for a low price. Government intervention in these matters distorts economic decision-making, misallocates scarce resources, and destroys personal liberty.



3: On forced public education, I agree that you should not be forced. People need to have the knowledge to read and write; however does government have the authority to force our children to learn their curriculem and their education model? Taking Common Core for example which affects public, private, charter, and homeschoolers. This "standard" is chosen by the government for your children, with their own views on history, math, and science. I think that is wrong.

In order to fix this one could try to abolish the Department of Education, since it didn't exist originally in America to begin with. However people have tried and failed in the past:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Department_of_Education#Opposition
 
Compulsory education in Western public state school systems is a method of control instated by those in power purposed to subjugate humans into a preexistent fiat-currency based socioeconomic model and to convince that such a model is the only viable one, in order to peserve, ultimately, the exclusive privelage of the rich at the cost of the poor.

Discuss.

And you consider YOURSELF poor?
 
Compulsory education in Western public state school systems is a method of control instated by those in power purposed to subjugate humans into a preexistent fiat-currency based socioeconomic model and to convince that such a model is the only viable one, in order to peserve, ultimately, the exclusive privelage of the rich at the cost of the poor.

Discuss.

I'd say this is partly right. However, I think Western "Education's" main purpose is beyond economics. It seems in my opinion to be moreso anti-religious and even anti-learning (by which I mean Western "education" is merely indoctrination of unproven or disproven theories as facts.) However, that's another topic so vast it is a topic unto itself.

In terms of Western capitalism (at least in USA) you might be surprised how many people that start businesses or are major players in the economy have a comparatively low level of education (at least when they start out.) The most major player in the American economy is the Consumer, and you do not have to be particularly educated or smart to be a consumer. Lol, really if you want to find the main culprit for indoctrinating people into the Western socio-economic model you need look no further than the television, music, and movie industries. Any form of popular media is far more effective than the broken and failing Western education system. The internet and its relation to Western economy is interesting as well, but the internet is sort of a double-edged sword as it is the new frontier of commerce, but it is also used against or to challenge the current economic system also (for example this very thread itself.)
 
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Correct me if I'm wrong, but it appears you are speaking about several topics here:

1) Capitalism being inadequate.
2) Minimum Wage being too low.
3) Forced public education being wrong.

From a United States of America perspective:

1: Regarding Captalism, it works - however; it has become Crony-Capitalism through special interests and deceit. Western cultures now have more of an Oligarchy than a free market. Fiat has replaced the gold standard, leaving our currency only backed by faith in paper.

2: I agree that wages are not keeping up with inflation, however some of the only people fighting to raise the minimum wage laws are Unions, then they add "Union Dues" along with their higher payment. That doesn't help the economy either. Neither can artificially inflating the minimum wage actually work, it just causes prices to go up and quality to go down overall.

In a true free market the non-crony business owner would be able to raise his wages without this being forced by the law; also having less taxes may inspire him/her to give more away as they would be making more.

Interesting discussion on this:
The Minimum Wage: Good Intentions, Bad Results : The Freeman : Foundation for Economic Education -->
If a young person is willing to wash cars for $2.50 an hour to gain work experience and self-esteem, is it the right of Congress to tell him he can’t do it? Is it, in fact, the right of any politician to make these kinds of economic choices for a free people?

Commenting again on the minimum wage, Williams makes this critical observation:
It is important to note that most people acquire work skills by working at “subnormal wages” which amounts to the same thing as paying to learn. For example, inexperienced doctors (interns), during their training, work at wages which are a tiny fraction of that of trained doctors. College students forego considerable amounts of money in the form of tuition and foregone income so that they may develop marketable skills. It is ironic, if not tragic, that low skilled youths from poor families are denied an opportunity to get a start in life. This is exactly what happens when a high minimum wage forbids low skilled workers to pay for job training in the form of a lower beginning wage.[SUP][3][/SUP]
​
In a free society, people must have the right to offer their services in the marketplace for whatever price they choose, whether they are workers serving employers or businesses serving consumers. It is by this process that productivity, wage rates, and prosperity are maximized. Government has no more business objecting to a low wage rate for a menial job than it has objecting to a business that offers its services or products for a low price. Government intervention in these matters distorts economic decision-making, misallocates scarce resources, and destroys personal liberty.



3: On forced public education, I agree that you should not be forced. People need to have the knowledge to read and write; however does government have the authority to force our children to learn their curriculem and their education model? Taking Common Core for example which affects public, private, charter, and homeschoolers. This "standard" is chosen by the government for your children, with their own views on history, math, and science. I think that is wrong.

In order to fix this one could try to abolish the Department of Education, since it didn't exist originally in America to begin with. However people have tried and failed in the past:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Department_of_Education#Opposition

I'm arguing further than these premises; my view is much more radical than you think. It's my opinion that the currency system itself, as the means of trade and garnering of sustenance, is engineered as to deliberately create great disparity between human beings whom I consider having the innate right to shelter, food and water but whom those who perpetuate this system by placing limitations on a person's ability to get food shelter and water by means other than currency do not. These things -- food shelter and water -- are commodities, and the ways in which governments and banks enforce this sytem (educationally, socially, economically) seek to ensure that they shall forever remain so.

It's this which I disagree with, only because I need look no further than starving and dying children as opposed to ostensible wealth, to recognize something is deeply wrong.

Only those who bow to the system and are considered worthy by its merits (educated suficiently and cimplicitly contributary to the capitalist fiat-money system) can sustain their lives, and that comes at the cost of enabling those who would perpetuate that system for their own benefit to keep more power politically, socially and economically while those who are not 'worthy' by the standards of this model (uneducated for example) live in poverty.

I don't necessarily think the issue is inherently the curricula itself (science taught as science, English lessons etc) but the motive for teaching children the curricula to begin with; that they might complicitly contribute to the fiat-money capitalist model.
 
And you consider YOURSELF poor?

Relatively, yes. I indebt myself for an education that might enable me to live at a standard of continuous sustenence in this system. At present, in the country in which I live and study, I struggle to afford three square meals a day, because capitalism at present deems me unworthy (not skilled or educated enough) to afford to live properly.
 
"Slaves and masters are co-conspirators in ignorance".....another way of saying that we live in a fallen sinful world, full of fallen sinful people that sin at both ends of the spectrum and all points in between.
 
Relatively, yes. I indebt myself for an education that might enable me to live at a standard of continuous sustenence in this system. At present, in the country in which I live and study, I struggle to afford three square meals a day, because capitalism at present deems me unworthy (not skilled or educated enough) to afford to live properly.

I am "relatively" poor to Bill Gates and Mark Zuckerberg. It doesn't mean I'm "poor" Go visit Haiti or Brazil or many other countries if you want to know what real poverty is.

I don't believe for a second you have gone a day in your life hungry, without the ability to get food. Stop whining, go get a job, better yourself and be grateful!
 
I am "relatively" poor to Bill Gates and Mark Zuckerberg. It doesn't mean I'm "poor" Go visit Haiti or Brazil or many other countries if you want to know what real poverty is.

I don't believe for a second you have gone a day in your life hungry, without the ability to get food. Stop whining, go get a job, better yourself and be grateful!

Haiti, Africa, Northern India, Nepal, Borneo; places full of people who capitalism does not serve.

As for me, I survive on a preset amount of money gotten from a government student loan (money I owe back to the government) of £2100 per term. I pay a rent of £1800 per term, internet charge of £100, termly train ticket for £100, flight to and from home at £110, food and drink expenses of £25 per week, a move-in one off cost of £250, a books and materials cost of £80, a toiletries/essentials cost of £5 per week, clothing cost of £5 per week, dentistry cost of £30 per term. That's not even all of it.

Income per term

£2100 per term

Outgoings per term

Rent - £1800
Internet - £100
Train- £100
Flights - £110
Food/Drink - £300
Toiletries - £60
Clothing - £60
Dentistry - £30
Loan repayment from initial setup cost (+ interest) - £550
Books and materials - £80
Total - £3270

Balance after first term: - £1170

Incase you haven't noticed, that leaves me with exactly the square root of zilch. Unless I do manage to 'get a job', as you suggest as though it's so simple and easy, I have to make a choice this term: Pay my rent and live off less than £2 a week or pay half my rent, eat properly and hope I get a job before they evict me.

You want me to be grateful for that!? I've indebted myself to get myself out of an underprivelaged community and get an education that should enable me to live with continuous sustenence, and in doing so found myself in an underprivelaged situation living a meal-a-day most days.

University students facing poverty
 
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if you can, Human, try and find those who are in 'like-wise' situation as yourself
and support each other in your common needs.
this can open-up new paths that you can help each other with, not to mention
sharing what you all have learned the hard way.
 
Haiti, Africa, Northern India, Nepal, Borneo; places full of people who capitalism does not serve.

As for me, I survive on a preset amount of money gotten from a government student loan (money I owe back to the government) of £2100 per term. I pay a rent of £1800 per term, internet charge of £100, termly train ticket for £100, flight to and from home at £110, food and drink expenses of £25 per week, a move-in one off cost of £250, a books and materials cost of £80, a toiletries/essentials cost of £5 per week, clothing cost of £5 per week, dentistry cost of £30 per term. That's not even all of it.

Income per term

£2100 per term

Outgoings per term

Rent - £1800
Internet - £100
Train- £100
Flights - £110
Food/Drink - £300
Toiletries - £60
Clothing - £60
Dentistry - £30
Loan repayment from initial setup cost (+ interest) - £550
Books and materials - £80
Total - £3270

Balance after first term: - £1170

Incase you haven't noticed, that leaves me with exactly the square root of zilch. Unless I do manage to 'get a job', as you suggest as though it's so simple and easy, I have to make a choice this term: Pay my rent and live off less than £2 a week or pay half my rent, eat properly and hope I get a job before they evict me.

You want me to be grateful for that!? I've indebted myself to get myself out of an underprivelaged community and get an education that should enable me to live with continuous sustenence, and in doing so found myself in an underprivelaged situation living a meal-a-day most days.

University students facing poverty

With this ingrained mentality Europe is utterly lost folks. We are fighting this mind-set s hard as we can in America but I fear we are losing.

Why the heck do you feel ANYBODY owes you ANYTHING!? Why do you consider welfare INCOME? When I think of income I think of EARNINGS.

The countries you listed are either deeply socialist countries or are ruled by despots.

How many times must socialism fail ere your ilk realize IT CANNOT WORK?

Capitalism employs one of the ONLY 2 forces EVER to have proven to stop man's corruption, which is at the heart of poverty. That force is COMPETITION. It makes everything and everybody be the best they can be. The other force is a belief in, and an accountability to, God.
The reason why America has been the wealthiest country in human history is because we USE to exist on BOTH of those tenets. We are slowly losing both.
Most Atheists believe in neither. That is why they will always fail in society.
 
With this ingrained mentality Europe is utterly lost folks. We are fighting this mind-set s hard as we can in America but I fear we are losing.

Why the heck do you feel ANYBODY owes you ANYTHING!? Why do you consider welfare INCOME? When I think of income I think of EARNINGS.

It isn't welfare, it's a loan with interest.

The countries you listed are either deeply socialist countries or are ruled by despots.

How many times must socialism fail ere your ilk realize IT CANNOT WORK?

Genuine socialism works. Ask Sweden.

Capitalism employs one of the ONLY 2 forces EVER to have proven to stop man's corruption, which is at the heart of poverty. That force is COMPETITION. It makes everything and everybody be the best they can be. The other force is a belief in, and an accountability to, God.
The reason why America has been the wealthiest country in human history is because we USE to exist on BOTH of those tenets.

America has been one of the wealthiest countries BECAUSE it's corrupt. Capitalism inspires and agitates corruption. It's perpetuated by greed, and by its definition (to capitalize meaning 'take advantage') it can only produce a system where some are ostensibly rich while others are disgracefully poor; where the rich are financially and thus educationally endowed to succeed in the capitalist paradigm while the poor and disenfranchised are not.

We are slowly losing both.
Most Atheists believe in neither. That is why they will always fail in society.

The richest and most charitable people on planet Earth are atheists, not Christians.