Catholic Heresy (for the record)

[Jeff_56]

I wouldn't call revealed theology 'confining God,' I just go by what He Himself told us, through scripture. Believing that God speaks to us 'in the silence of the world', 'through creation,' leads to natural theology, panentheism and even pantheism. God reveals Himself through His Son, scripture and preaching (Barth in a nutshell). Just because Christ spoke to His apostles in dreams doesn't mean He will do it by default. Should we expect donkeys to reveal God's truth like one did in the days of Biliam too then?

Funny you of all people wish to lecture me on apostasy btw.

funny sad. like mormons, he cannot see the truth. that's why mormons and other heresy is not permitted to be promoted on this site.

why can't they(mormons or rcc) be corrected ? (they may study forever, and never learn truth) >>

Romans 1:28 - Bible Gateway
www.biblegateway.com/verse/en/Romans 1:28

28 Since these people refused even to think about God, he let their useless
minds rule over them. ... And so they do what they should not do. ..... 28 Since
they had no mind to recognize God, He turned them loose to follow the unseemly
...

there is GOOD NEWS in ROMANS, IF they turn to the one true God and seek Him. until then, no chance ...

 

[Jackson123]

Specifically its verse 21. The Body of Christ is part of the host of Heaven.

21 Bless ye the Lord, all ye his hosts; ye ministers of his, that do his pleasure.

It doesn't say heaven here and there isn't word Mary.
To me it mean bless be the Lord. and all His ministers, Minister of the Lord is Pastor, Angel etc.

 

[kennethcadwell]

Because the word prayer is an english word that comes from Latin, German, and Saxon. Also, when I said present, I did not mean He is here on earth, but that He is not confined to Heaven. God's full presence is here in the Holy Spirit. Christ still speaks to people in dreams, the Father still speaks in the silence of the world.

That still does not answer the question of show me one scripture that says pray to other.
Like I said I have not seen or found any biblical support for that. Pray for, yes...Pray to, no....
God is the only one we need to pray to, and the Lord Jesus is the only mediator we need between us and Him. To pray to another would be putting them in the place of the Lord, which is very dangerous to do.
I was in the Catholic church for 5 years, took the RCIA classes, and left because of the fallacies that were being taught that was contrary to scripture.

 

[ThomistColin]

That still does not answer the question of show me one scripture that says pray to other.
Like I said I have not seen or found any biblical support for that. Pray for, yes...Pray to, no....
God is the only one we need to pray to, and the Lord Jesus is the only mediator we need between us and Him. To pray to another would be putting them in the place of the Lord, which is very dangerous to do.
I was in the Catholic church for 5 years, took the RCIA classes, and left because of the fallacies that were being taught that was contrary to scripture.

Again you are ignoring the point. You read prayer and read the definition, "A conversation of worship between God and man." The problem is that at the Protest, two vocabularies came into existence. One a Protestant vocabulary and the other a Catholic vocabulary. The same happened with the Great Schism.

 

[kennethcadwell]

funny sad. like mormons, he cannot see the truth. that's why mormons and other heresy is not permitted to be promoted on this site.

why can't they(mormons or rcc) be corrected ? (they may study forever, and never learn truth) >>

Romans 1:28 - Bible Gateway
www.biblegateway.com/verse/en/Romans%201%3A28

28 Since these people refused even to think about God, he let their useless
minds rule over them. ... And so they do what they should not do. ..... 28 Since
they had no mind to recognize God, He turned them loose to follow the unseemly
...

there is GOOD NEWS in ROMANS, IF they turn to the one true God and seek Him. until then, no chance ...

Actually some can be brought into the light, as I was in the Catholic church for 5 years and left do to the fallacies in the teachings. Most do not leave because they are so blinded by the false dogma, because of tradition, false historic teaching, or scared of change.

Hebrews 6:4-6


For it is impossible, in the case of those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, and have shared in the Holy Spirit, and have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the age to come, and then have fallen away, to restore them again to repentance, since they are crucifying once again the Son of God to their own harm and holding him up to contempt.

 

[kennethcadwell]

Again you are ignoring the point. You read prayer and read the definition, "A conversation of worship between God and man." The problem is that at the Protest, two vocabularies came into existence. One a Protestant vocabulary and the other a Catholic vocabulary. The same happened with the Great Schism.

Yes prayer is between God and man, not between man and man.
You were saying we can pray to the saints, that would be prayer between man and man. For saints are not gods, and we do not become gods. That is a false teaching the Mormon's use, and many Mormon's end up leaving that church when they get that high in the rankings. Because they have a level system in their church, and they hide it from the newer and younger members. But once they have been there for many years, they are brought in to the truth of the levels and the highest one achievable is becoming a god themselves.

 

[ThomistColin]

Yes prayer is between God and man, not between man and man.
You were saying we can pray to the saints, that would be prayer between man and man. For saints are not gods, and we do not become gods. That is a false teaching the Mormon's use, and many Mormon's end up leaving that church when they get that high in the rankings. Because they have a level system in their church, and they hide it from the newer and younger members. But once they have been there for many years, they are brought in to the truth of the levels and the highest one achievable is becoming a god themselves.

And that is a straw man argument. I never made such claims. My point is your using the word prayer wrong.

 

[jeff_peacemkr]

heresy is heresy, from the root.

[h=3]Where Does the Bible Say We Should Pray to Dead Saints ...[/h]So, where does the Bible say we should pray to dead saints? ... the man Christ Jesus” so how does the RCC reconcile praying to saints? MARK, STEVE RAY HERE.2014 September 04 | Defenders of the Catholic Faith | Hosted by Stephen K. Raywhere-does-the...

[h=3]Is praying to the saints biblical? | Christian Apologetics ...[/h]... is the doctrine of praying to the saints. ... prayers of those on Earth does not mean that is okay to pray to saints. ... It does not say that they are ...carm.org/praying-saints-biblical

[h=3]Should we pray to saints ? - Bible FAQ | United Church of God[/h]Some churches have a historic practice of praying to dead saints. Does ... Does the Bible teach that we should pray to the saints? ... What else does the Bible say ...Frequently Asked Bible Questions | United Church of Godpray-saints

[h=3]“Where Does the Bible Say We Should Pray to Dead Saints ...[/h]... Scripture and quotes from the early Church Fathers and even archaeology to assist in understanding the Communion of Saints. ... Does the Bible Say We Should Pray ...2012 May 30 | Defenders of the Catholic Faith | Hosted by Stephen K. Raywhere-does-the...

 

[kennethcadwell]

And that is a straw man argument. I never made such claims. My point is your using the word prayer wrong.

No I am not for the bible says that we are to pray to God, and anything we ask Him in prayer we are to ask in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ who is our mediator.

John 14:13
And whatsoever ye shall ask in my name, that will I do, that the Father may be glorified in the Son

John 16:23
And in that day ye shall ask me nothing. Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whatsoever ye shall ask the Father in my name, he will give it you.


So if I pray to God and in that prayer the things that I ask for Him to do if it is His will, and end with, " in Jesus Christ name I pray. " How am I praying wrong ?

I am not praying wrong, for that would b praying to Mary, or any other saints instead of God directly asking in Jesus name.

 

[AuphirahQueen]

This is to funny between the professors, ThomistColin and didymos. Reminds me of the battle between Manichaeism and Christianity. I will bet on didymos because he reminds me of Socrates who is teaching his student Plato(ThomistColing). So ThomistColin respect your elders !!! Lool, I like you both!!

 

[Zifnab21]

I wouldn't call revealed theology 'confining God,' I just go by what He Himself told us, through scripture. Believing that God speaks to us 'in the silence of the world', 'through creation,' leads to natural theology, panentheism and even pantheism. God reveals Himself through His Son, scripture and preaching (Barth in a nutshell). Just because Christ spoke to His apostles in dreams doesn't mean He will do it by default. Should we expect donkeys to reveal God's truth like one did in the days of Biliam too then?

Funny you of all people wish to lecture me on apostasy btw.

God created the heavens and the earth. By seeing his creation we can marvel at his wonders and see proof of his existence along with Jesus and his revelation. Creation proves God not lead to natural theology as you mention it.

The Catholic Church never entered into apostasy since Jesus created it and said the gates of hell shall not prevail against it. It is Protestant theology that is an apostasy.

 

[kennethcadwell]

God created the heavens and the earth. By seeing his creation we can marvel at his wonders and see proof of his existence along with Jesus and his revelation. Creation proves God not lead to natural theology as you mention it.

The Catholic Church never entered into apostasy since Jesus created it and said the gates of hell shall not prevail against it. It is Protestant theology that is an apostasy.

Once again and I hope you come to this revelation, and that is that the true Church that the gates of hell will never prevail against is not the denominational Catholic church.
It is the true Church of the body of believers, Christians. All those who truly follow Him no matter what man made denominational title is on your church building. The Catholic church just like the other denominations were formed many years later after the Lord was crucified. You are caught in their false dogma that Jesus founded and started the Catholic church, which is false because if that was the case the bible would have mentioned the word Catholic in it.
It didn't because Catholic was not heard of yet, as it came years later. Christianity is the the true Church.

 

[Zifnab21]

Once again and I hope you come to this revelation, and that is that the true Church that the gates of hell will never prevail against is not the denominational Catholic church.
It is the true Church of the body of believers, Christians. All those who truly follow Him no matter what man made denominational title is on your church building. The Catholic church just like the other denominations were formed many years later after the Lord was crucified. You are caught in their false dogma that Jesus founded and started the Catholic church, which is false because if that was the case the bible would have mentioned the word Catholic in it.
It didn't because Catholic was not heard of yet, as it came years later. Christianity is the the true Church.

I am not caught false dogma. Christ did establish what is the Catholic Church. This is a theological historical fact. Whoever has been instructing you is ignorant in their teaching. I do not regard you as knowing your history or theology and that you have no authority whatever over either of them.

 

[kennethcadwell]

I am not caught false dogma. Christ did establish what is the Catholic Church. This is a theological historical fact. Whoever has been instructing you is ignorant in their teaching. I do not regard you as knowing your history or theology and that you have no authority whatever over either of them.

No that is Catholic dogma's history, which is not true history.
Just because you can tie your roots back to Peter, and Paul does not make it fact, because truthfully ever denomination can do that then. I do know my history, and like I said I was in the Catholic church for 5 years and took the RCIA classes.
I left because of the fallacies they were teaching.
The term Catholic was not used tell some time in the 2nd century, which would be over 60 years after Christ, so if He founded the Catholic church and not the true Church which is the body of all believers in Him then why was the term not herd of for the first 60 or more years of the early church.


The word catholic (with lowercase c; derived via Late Latin catholicus, from the Greek adjective καθολικός (katholikos), meaning "universal"[SUP][1][/SUP][SUP][2][/SUP]) comes from the Greek phraseκαθόλου (katholou), meaning "on the whole", "according to the whole" or "in general", and is a combination of the Greek words κατά meaning "about" and ὅλος meaning "whole".[SUP][3][/SUP][SUP][4][/SUP] The word in English can mean either "including a wide variety of things; all-embracing" or "of the Roman Catholic faith" as "relating to the historic doctrine and practice of the Western Church.".[SUP][5][/SUP] ("Catholicos, the title used for the head of some churches in Eastern Christian traditions, is derived from the same linguistic origin.)The term Catholic (usually written with uppercase C in English) was first used to describe the Christian Church in the early 2nd century to emphasize its universal scope. In the context of Christian ecclesiology, it has a rich history and several usages. In non-ecclesiastical use, it derives its English meaning directly from its root, and is currently used to mean the following:

 

[Zifnab21]

No that is Catholic dogma's history, which is not true history.
Just because you can tie your roots back to Peter, and Paul does not make it fact, because truthfully ever denomination can do that then. I do know my history, and like I said I was in the Catholic church for 5 years and took the RCIA classes.
I left because of the fallacies they were teaching.
The term Catholic was not used tell some time in the 2nd century, which would be over 60 years after Christ, so if He founded the Catholic church and not the true Church which is the body of all believers in Him then why was the term not herd of for the first 60 or more years of the early church.


The word catholic (with lowercase c; derived via Late Latincatholicus, from the Greek adjective καθολικός (katholikos), meaning "universal"[SUP][1][/SUP][SUP][2][/SUP]) comes from the Greek phraseκαθόλου (katholou), meaning "on the whole", "according to the whole" or "in general", and is a combination of the Greek words κατά meaning "about" and ὅλος meaning "whole".[SUP][3][/SUP][SUP][4][/SUP] The word in English can mean either "including a wide variety of things; all-embracing" or "of the Roman Catholic faith" as "relating to the historic doctrine and practice of the Western Church.".[SUP][5][/SUP] ("Catholicos, the title used for the head of some churches in Eastern Christian traditions, is derived from the same linguistic origin.)The term Catholic (usually written with uppercase C in English) was first used to describe the Christian Church in the early 2nd century to emphasize its universal scope. In the context of Christian ecclesiology, it has a rich history and several usages. In non-ecclesiastical use, it derives its English meaning directly from its root, and is currently used to mean the following:

Thank you for proving my point that you don't know your history or theology. The Catholic Church can be established outside of it's own history and dogmas. I have nothing more to say to you on this since you don't know what your talking about.

 

[kennethcadwell]

Thank you for proving my point that you don't know your history or theology. The Catholic Church can be established outside of it's own history and dogmas. I have nothing more to say to you on this since you don't know what your talking about.

I don't know what I am talking about ?
Funny because I just showed you in my last post on how the term Catholic was not even heard of tell the early 2nd century, which would place it between 101 AD to 200 AD. Jesus ministry ended in 33 AD at His crucifixion.
If you think the term catholic was used before 101 AD, then you have been given a false history of the church.

 

[ThomistColin]

I don't know what I am talking about ?
Funny because I just showed you in my last post on how the term Catholic was not even heard of tell the early 2nd century, which would place it between 101 AD to 200 AD. Jesus ministry ended in 33 AD at His crucifixion.
If you think the term catholic was used before 101 AD, then you have been given a false history of the church.

And the Book of Revelation didn't exist for 60 years after Christ's death and resurrection. We weren't called Christians for almost 10 years. That which is the Catholic Church began with the religion.

 

[kennethcadwell]

And the Book of Revelation didn't exist for 60 years after Christ's death and resurrection. We weren't called Christians for almost 10 years. That which is the Catholic Church began with the religion.

The Church members were called Christians before they were called anything else, and the word Christian is in the bible.
Catholic is not in the bible because it came over 60 years later as a man made denomination term, and by this time there was already divisions in the true church. So Catholic's can not say the true Church, because it was formed out of the different divisions that was already taking place.
And it is also a proven fact, unless you have been mislead by a false historic teaching that the Romans defiled the church leading to apostate teachings that the Catholic church still uses. Which I am glad to say that by seeing some of what the church has been doing is moving away from a few of those apostate teachings. Like the main one that was taught for years that some Catholic's are stuck in, that only Catholics are saved and every other denomination lost.
The Catholic church has at least pulled away from that lie, now if only they would back out of the extra things they have its members do that are not needed or biblical.

 

[Zifnab21]

I don't know what I am talking about ?
Funny because I just showed you in my last post on how the term Catholic was not even heard of tell the early 2nd century, which would place it between 101 AD to 200 AD. Jesus ministry ended in 33 AD at His crucifixion.
If you think the term catholic was used before 101 AD, then you have been given a false history of the church.

You proved my point that you don't know your history or theology. When a name first gets used doesn't matter on when an organization started. The word "Bible" in the Christian use didn't start until 223 AD.(When Was The Word Bible First Used?).

Therefore, there was no such thing as the bible and sola scriptura couldn't be used and basing veering thing on the bible couldn't be used. Jesus, his Disciples and the first christians couldn't have used the Bible or sola scriptura. Your logic falls apart. Just stop using this type of logic. Don't waste your time replying anymore, I'm just going to ignore you from now on.

 

[kennethcadwell]

You proved my point that you don't know your history or theology. When a name first gets used doesn't matter on when an organization started. The word "Bible" in the Christian use didn't start until 223 AD.(When Was The Word Bible First Used?).

Therefore, there was no such thing as the bible and sola scriptura couldn't be used and basing veering thing on the bible couldn't be used. Jesus, his Disciples and the first christians couldn't have used the Bible or sola scriptura. Your logic falls apart. Just stop using this type of logic. Don't waste your time replying anymore, I'm just going to ignore you from now on.

You can not say the Catholic church was the true church though when it started over 60 years later.
By this time there was already divisions in the church as you can tell by scripture, as Paul showed how disputes were already taking place between church members on who to follow. As each Apostle was already, and newly disciples were bringing in their own heresies which by history the Romans were behind a lot of it.
So when heresies and disputes of different teachings already was effecting the church within the first few years, the only way you can no if your church denomination formed over 60 years later is still following the true teachings is go by scriptures. Guess what the Catholic church teaches a number of things that is not biblical, as in telling people for the longest time that only Catholics are saved. They are finally breaking from that fallacy now, which is good.

Even though there was no bible they still had either the Apostles themselves back then, or they had their writings even though not put together in the canon that became the bible. And even with having them and then their writings there was already apostate teaching, and division before the Catholic church was formed/named.

Acts 11:26

And when he had found him, he brought him unto Antioch. And it came to pass, that a whole year they assembled themselves with the church, and taught much people. And the disciples were called Christians first in Antioch.