Catholic Heresy (for the record)

[Jeff_56]

LIVING people can pray for one another.

DEAD people don't pray for anyone.(read the Scripture - that is where it is written).

DEAD people made up stories to TRICK other people into believing catholcsm is true.

Paul warned about this before he passed on. (read the Scripture - that's the true authority).

 

[Zifnab21]

None of those verses says the saints, especially Mary intercedes or is a mediator for us.
The Psalms you gave is a giving of thanks, and Matthew says that the angels see what we do to one another. The saints/Mary are not angels, and in Revelation it says prayers of the saints. That could be their prayers, prayers of those still alive, or both. This still does not say we have to pray directly to them, as we can pray directly to God in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ who is our one and only mediator. If we can pray directly to Him, why do we need to pray to another.

that is EXACTLY what they are talking about and they are not the only verses about asking the saints, or others, to pray for us I will take what Jesus, God, Holy Spirit and the Bible over ignorant and faulty interpretations of the Bible. You don't need to reply your comments have no authority to change this.

 

[kennethcadwell]

Indeed, because the Holy Spirit told us to pray to and for one another.

Pray, "to ask with reverence" is the origin of the word. To ask for another's prayers is to pray to them. Also, if another prays on your behalf, they have interceded for you. Also, remember that your faith can save another's life, Jesus forgave the sins of the paralytic because of the faith of his friends.

Yes we can pray for others, but there is no biblical support that says to pray to others besides God Himself in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ.

 

[Jackson123]

Your statemnet in unbiblical. Psalm 103 and 148, Revelation 5:8 and 8:3-4 and what Jesus says in Matt. 18:10.

where in this verse the information about Mary pray for the living catholic?

[h=1]Psalm 103 King James Version (KJV)[/h]103 Bless the Lord, O my soul: and all that is within me, bless his holy name.
2 Bless the Lord, O my soul, and forget not all his benefits:
3 Who forgiveth all thine iniquities; who healeth all thy diseases;
4 Who redeemeth thy life from destruction; who crowneth thee with lovingkindness and tender mercies;
5 Who satisfieth thy mouth with good things; so that thy youth is renewed like the eagle's.
6 The Lord executeth righteousness and judgment for all that are oppressed.
7 He made known his ways unto Moses, his acts unto the children of Israel.
8 The Lord is merciful and gracious, slow to anger, and plenteous in mercy.
9 He will not always chide: neither will he keep his anger for ever.
10 He hath not dealt with us after our sins; nor rewarded us according to our iniquities.
11 For as the heaven is high above the earth, so great is his mercy toward them that fear him.
12 As far as the east is from the west, so far hath he removed our transgressions from us.
13 Like as a father pitieth his children, so the Lord pitieth them that fear him.
14 For he knoweth our frame; he remembereth that we are dust.
15 As for man, his days are as grass: as a flower of the field, so he flourisheth.
16 For the wind passeth over it, and it is gone; and the place thereof shall know it no more.
17 But the mercy of the Lord is from everlasting to everlasting upon them that fear him, and his righteousness unto children's children;
18 To such as keep his covenant, and to those that remember his commandments to do them.
19 The Lord hath prepared his throne in the heavens; and his kingdom ruleth over all.
20 Bless the Lord, ye his angels, that excel in strength, that do his commandments, hearkening unto the voice of his word.
21 Bless ye the Lord, all ye his hosts; ye ministers of his, that do his pleasure.
22 Bless the Lord, all his works in all places of his dominion: bless the Lord, O my soul.

King James Version (KJV)

 

[kennethcadwell]

that is EXACTLY what they are talking about and they are not the only verses about asking the saints, or others, to pray for us I will take what Jesus, God, Holy Spirit and the Bible over ignorant and faulty interpretations of the Bible. You don't need to reply your comments have no authority to change this.

Yes we can ask others to pray for us, as if I ask you to pray for my son who is going into the army to stay safe.
The thing is what is the purpose of praying to a person who is already physically dead, when we can pray directly to God Himself in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ? That would be placing them as the mediator in the afterlife instead of the Lord who the bible says is our only mediator between us and God.

 

[ThomistColin]

Yes we can ask others to pray for us, as if I ask you to pray for my son who is going into the army to stay safe.
The thing is what is the purpose of praying to a person who is already physically dead, when we can pray directly to God Himself in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ? That would be placing them as the mediator in the afterlife instead of the Lord who the bible says is our only mediator between us and God.

But see there our problem. Jesus isn't our mediator to God in the afterlife. Jesus is here, presently, the Father is here presently. Jesus as God and man is our mediator between man and God. God made Himself the bridge to Him. Its not some afterlife malarkey.

Also, worship is due to God alone and no other. To pray to one another, again goes back to the origin of the word prayer, "to ask reverently or with reverence." If I ask my parents for something I desire, I am praying to them. If I ask for the judge to show mercy for a speeding ticket, I am praying to him. Read Shakespeare or the King James in its original language and you will read lines like, "Pray thee hence" in Hamlet or "Pray, hear my words" in Scripture. We also see the Saints in heaven in Revelation praying before the Throne, bringing prayers to the throne, crying out to God, etc. Paul said we are surrounded by a "cloud of witnesses" that we do not see. He was not speaking of other Christians who are alive, but of those who now in the presence of almighty God. We see throughout Scripture the fact that the two great commandments are to Love God and to love one another. That does not cease because my heart ceases to beat and my flesh becomes corrupted. Still in the presence of God, those who have gone before us, now in true spirit and perfection continue to fulfill these two commandments. They pray for us, and continue to do so, because they love us.

 

[ThomistColin]

where in this verse the information about Mary pray for the living catholic?

Psalm 103 King James Version (KJV)

103 Bless the Lord, O my soul: and all that is within me, bless his holy name.
2 Bless the Lord, O my soul, and forget not all his benefits:
3 Who forgiveth all thine iniquities; who healeth all thy diseases;
4 Who redeemeth thy life from destruction; who crowneth thee with lovingkindness and tender mercies;
5 Who satisfieth thy mouth with good things; so that thy youth is renewed like the eagle's.
6 The Lord executeth righteousness and judgment for all that are oppressed.
7 He made known his ways unto Moses, his acts unto the children of Israel.
8 The Lord is merciful and gracious, slow to anger, and plenteous in mercy.
9 He will not always chide: neither will he keep his anger for ever.
10 He hath not dealt with us after our sins; nor rewarded us according to our iniquities.
11 For as the heaven is high above the earth, so great is his mercy toward them that fear him.
12 As far as the east is from the west, so far hath he removed our transgressions from us.
13 Like as a father pitieth his children, so the Lord pitieth them that fear him.
14 For he knoweth our frame; he remembereth that we are dust.
15 As for man, his days are as grass: as a flower of the field, so he flourisheth.
16 For the wind passeth over it, and it is gone; and the place thereof shall know it no more.
17 But the mercy of the Lord is from everlasting to everlasting upon them that fear him, and his righteousness unto children's children;
18 To such as keep his covenant, and to those that remember his commandments to do them.
19 The Lord hath prepared his throne in the heavens; and his kingdom ruleth over all.
20 Bless the Lord, ye his angels, that excel in strength, that do his commandments, hearkening unto the voice of his word.
21 Bless ye the Lord, all ye his hosts; ye ministers of his, that do his pleasure.
22 Bless the Lord, all his works in all places of his dominion: bless the Lord, O my soul.

King James Version (KJV)

Specifically its verse 21. The Body of Christ is part of the host of Heaven.

 

[kennethcadwell]

But see there our problem. Jesus isn't our mediator to God in the afterlife. Jesus is here, presently, the Father is here presently. Jesus as God and man is our mediator between man and God. God made Himself the bridge to Him. Its not some afterlife malarkey.

Also, worship is due to God alone and no other. To pray to one another, again goes back to the origin of the word prayer, "to ask reverently or with reverence." If I ask my parents for something I desire, I am praying to them. If I ask for the judge to show mercy for a speeding ticket, I am praying to him. Read Shakespeare or the King James in its original language and you will read lines like, "Pray thee hence" in Hamlet or "Pray, hear my words" in Scripture. We also see the Saints in heaven in Revelation praying before the Throne, bringing prayers to the throne, crying out to God, etc. Paul said we are surrounded by a "cloud of witnesses" that we do not see. He was not speaking of other Christians who are alive, but of those who now in the presence of almighty God. We see throughout Scripture the fact that the two great commandments are to Love God and to love one another. That does not cease because my heart ceases to beat and my flesh becomes corrupted. Still in the presence of God, those who have gone before us, now in true spirit and perfection continue to fulfill these two commandments. They pray for us, and continue to do so, because they love us.

Which then would show the false dogma that you would be following, as that is not biblical.

For the Father and the Son are both in heaven right now, and our guide and helper the Holy Spirit is what is here helping us in our walk in the faith. No biblical scripture places God or Jesus down here with us right now, Jesus has not made His second coming yet and God comes down with the New Jerusalem (Revelation 21).
Then I will ask you once again show a biblical scripture that shows we are to pray to others besides God as Jesus being our mediator.
I do know we can pray for others, but have never seen any scripture that says pray to other people.

1 Timothy 2:5
For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;

 

[ThomistColin]

Which then would show the false dogma that you would be following, as that is not biblical.

For the Father and the Son are both in heaven right now, and our guide and helper the Holy Spirit is what is here helping us in our walk in the faith. No biblical scripture places God or Jesus down here with us right now, Jesus has not made His second coming yet and God comes down with the New Jerusalem (Revelation 21).
Then I will ask you once again show a biblical scripture that shows we are to pray to others besides God as Jesus being our mediator.
I do know we can pray for others, but have never seen any scripture that says pray to other people.

1 Timothy 2:5
For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;

Because the word prayer is an english word that comes from Latin, German, and Saxon. Also, when I said present, I did not mean He is here on earth, but that He is not confined to Heaven. God's full presence is here in the Holy Spirit. Christ still speaks to people in dreams, the Father still speaks in the silence of the world.

 

[Jeff_56]

and, again, the dead cannot do anything. that's a gross mistranslation and/or misinterpretation of all Scripture. until Mary is raised from the grave, she is asleep, as are all the dead who are not raised from the dead yet. see Scripture or ABBA YHVH. (and the link is elsewhere for those actually interested).

 

[Jeff_56]

[h=1] Romans 8 Complete Jewish Bible (CJB)[/h] 8 Therefore, there is no longer any condemnation awaiting those who are in union with the Messiah Yeshua. [SUP]2 [/SUP]Why? Because the Torah of the Spirit, which produces this life in union with Messiah Yeshua, has set me free from the “Torah” of sin and death. [SUP]3 [/SUP]For what the Torah could not do by itself, because it lacked the power to make the old nature cooperate, God did by sending his own Son as a human being with a nature like our own sinful one [but without sin]. God did this in order to deal with sin, and in so doing he executed the punishment against sin in human nature, [SUP]4 [/SUP]so that the just requirement of the Torah might be fulfilled in us who do not run our lives according to what our old nature wants but according to what the Spirit wants. [SUP]5 [/SUP]For those who identify with their old nature set their minds on the things of the old nature, but those who identify with the Spirit set their minds on the things of the Spirit. [SUP]6 [/SUP]Having one’s mind controlled by the old nature is death, but having one’s mind controlled by the Spirit is life and shalom. [SUP]7 [/SUP]For the mind controlled by the old nature is hostile to God, because it does not submit itself to God’s Torah — indeed, it cannot. [SUP]8 [/SUP]Thus, those who identify with their old nature cannot please God.
[SUP]9 [/SUP]But you, you do not identify with your old nature but with the Spirit — provided the Spirit of God is living inside you, for anyone who doesn’t have the Spirit of the Messiah doesn’t belong to him. [SUP]10 [/SUP]However, if the Messiah is in you, then, on the one hand, the body is dead because of sin; but, on the other hand, the Spirit is giving life because God considers you righteous. [SUP]11 [/SUP]And if the Spirit of the One who raised Yeshua from the dead is living in you, then the One who raised the Messiah Yeshua from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies through his Spirit living in you.
[SUP]12 [/SUP]So then, brothers, we don’t owe a thing to our old nature that would require us to live according to our old nature. [SUP]13 [/SUP]For if you live according to your old nature, you will certainly die; but if, by the Spirit, you keep putting to death the practices of the body, you will live.
[SUP]14 [/SUP]All who are led by God’s Spirit are God’s sons. (right now. today. not by and by)

 

[ThomistColin]

Romans 8 Complete Jewish Bible (CJB)

8 Therefore, there is no longer any condemnation awaiting those who are in union with the Messiah Yeshua. [SUP]2 [/SUP]Why? Because the Torah of the Spirit, which produces this life in union with Messiah Yeshua, has set me free from the “Torah” of sin and death. [SUP]3 [/SUP]For what the Torah could not do by itself, because it lacked the power to make the old nature cooperate, God did by sending his own Son as a human being with a nature like our own sinful one [but without sin]. God did this in order to deal with sin, and in so doing he executed the punishment against sin in human nature, [SUP]4 [/SUP]so that the just requirement of the Torah might be fulfilled in us who do not run our lives according to what our old nature wants but according to what the Spirit wants. [SUP]5 [/SUP]For those who identify with their old nature set their minds on the things of the old nature, but those who identify with the Spirit set their minds on the things of the Spirit. [SUP]6 [/SUP]Having one’s mind controlled by the old nature is death, but having one’s mind controlled by the Spirit is life and shalom. [SUP]7 [/SUP]For the mind controlled by the old nature is hostile to God, because it does not submit itself to God’s Torah — indeed, it cannot. [SUP]8 [/SUP]Thus, those who identify with their old nature cannot please God.
[SUP]9 [/SUP]But you, you do not identify with your old nature but with the Spirit — provided the Spirit of God is living inside you, for anyone who doesn’t have the Spirit of the Messiah doesn’t belong to him. [SUP]10 [/SUP]However, if the Messiah is in you, then, on the one hand, the body is dead because of sin; but, on the other hand, the Spirit is giving life because God considers you righteous. [SUP]11 [/SUP]And if the Spirit of the One who raised Yeshua from the dead is living in you, then the One who raised the Messiah Yeshua from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies through his Spirit living in you.
[SUP]12 [/SUP]So then, brothers, we don’t owe a thing to our old nature that would require us to live according to our old nature. [SUP]13 [/SUP]For if you live according to your old nature, you will certainly die; but if, by the Spirit, you keep putting to death the practices of the body, you will live.
[SUP]14 [/SUP]All who are led by God’s Spirit are God’s sons. (right now. today. not by and by)

Why are you using a translation as the definitive wording? That's right up there with KJV onlyism. This letter was written in Greek. Let the Greek be definitive.

 

[Jeff_56]

use any language or translation. rcc is still heresy, in all and every one

whatever they did to get your confidence, they lied. they have lied from the beginning.... time to move on.

Why are you using a translation as the definitive wording? That's right up there with KJV onlyism. This letter was written in Greek. Let the Greek be definitive.

 

[Zifnab21]

where in this verse the information about Mary pray for the living catholic?

Psalm 103 King James Version (KJV)

103 Bless the Lord, O my soul: and all that is within me, bless his holy name.
2 Bless the Lord, O my soul, and forget not all his benefits:
3 Who forgiveth all thine iniquities; who healeth all thy diseases;
4 Who redeemeth thy life from destruction; who crowneth thee with lovingkindness and tender mercies;
5 Who satisfieth thy mouth with good things; so that thy youth is renewed like the eagle's.
6 The Lord executeth righteousness and judgment for all that are oppressed.
7 He made known his ways unto Moses, his acts unto the children of Israel.
8 The Lord is merciful and gracious, slow to anger, and plenteous in mercy.
9 He will not always chide: neither will he keep his anger for ever.
10 He hath not dealt with us after our sins; nor rewarded us according to our iniquities.
11 For as the heaven is high above the earth, so great is his mercy toward them that fear him.
12 As far as the east is from the west, so far hath he removed our transgressions from us.
13 Like as a father pitieth his children, so the Lord pitieth them that fear him.
14 For he knoweth our frame; he remembereth that we are dust.
15 As for man, his days are as grass: as a flower of the field, so he flourisheth.
16 For the wind passeth over it, and it is gone; and the place thereof shall know it no more.
17 But the mercy of the Lord is from everlasting to everlasting upon them that fear him, and his righteousness unto children's children;
18 To such as keep his covenant, and to those that remember his commandments to do them.
19 The Lord hath prepared his throne in the heavens; and his kingdom ruleth over all.
20 Bless the Lord, ye his angels, that excel in strength, that do his commandments, hearkening unto the voice of his word.
21 Bless ye the Lord, all ye his hosts; ye ministers of his, that do his pleasure.
22 Bless the Lord, all his works in all places of his dominion: bless the Lord, O my soul.

King James Version (KJV)

Psalm 103:20–21 deals with intercession. I never said Mary specifically.

 

[Zifnab21]

and, again, the dead cannot do anything. that's a gross mistranslation and/or misinterpretation of all Scripture. until Mary is raised from the grave, she is asleep, as are all the dead who are not raised from the dead yet. see Scripture or ABBA YHVH. (and the link is elsewhere for those actually interested).

Yes, they can. Revelation 5:8 and 8:3–4 specifically mention this. It is NOT a mistranslation and/or misinterpretation of scripture. You need to reread the Bible and stop listening to bad theology (the person) who told you otherwise is wrong).

 

[Zifnab21]

Yes we can ask others to pray for us, as if I ask you to pray for my son who is going into the army to stay safe.
The thing is what is the purpose of praying to a person who is already physically dead, when we can pray directly to God Himself in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ? That would be placing them as the mediator in the afterlife instead of the Lord who the bible says is our only mediator between us and God.

The Bible says we can pray to those in Heaven in Revelation 5:8 and 8:3–4 This is the correct interpretation of these Bible verses. You need to go back and READ these verses and stop listening to people who are teaching bad theology. I have nothing more to say on the matter as what Jesus teaches overrides anything you say.

 

[didymos]

Because the word prayer is an english word that comes from Latin, German, and Saxon. Also, when I said present, I did not mean He is here on earth, but that He is not confined to Heaven. God's full presence is here in the Holy Spirit. Christ still speaks to people in dreams, the Father still speaks in the silence of the world.

Nope, it's comes from the Latin only (singular: prex, plural: preces), The Saxon word for prayer (æfengebed) and the german word (Gebet) aren't similar to the english word 'prayer' at all. God's Spirit is present here, true, that's biblical, but 'Christ speaking in dreams' or 'the Father speaking in the silence of the world' surely aren't.

 

[ThomistColin]

Nope, it's comes from the Latin only (singular: prex, plural: preces), The Saxon word for prayer (æfengebed) and the german word (Gebet) aren't similar to the english word 'prayer' at all. God's Spirit is present here, true, that's biblical, but 'Christ speaking in dreams' or 'the Father speaking in the silence of the world' surely aren't.

The Latin form of the word is of origin a legal word. However, the pagan Germans and Saxons, independently, understanding of the word drew it quickly into a mystical understanding.

Much like the word, "Sacrament". It is a totally Latin word, but the usage of it in religious form comes from other cultures.

 

[ThomistColin]

Nope, it's comes from the Latin only (singular: prex, plural: preces), The Saxon word for prayer (æfengebed) and the german word (Gebet) aren't similar to the english word 'prayer' at all. God's Spirit is present here, true, that's biblical, but 'Christ speaking in dreams' or 'the Father speaking in the silence of the world' surely aren't.

Christ spoke in dreams to the Apostles in Acts. The Father has never stopped speaking to His Creation. Again, you are confining God, which leads to two heresies or an apostasy. Either you are advocating partialism or question God's infinite being (two heresies) or polytheism (the apostasy).

 

[didymos]

Christ spoke in dreams to the Apostles in Acts. The Father has never stopped speaking to His Creation. Again, you are confining God, which leads to two heresies or an apostasy. Either you are advocating partialism or question God's infinite being (two heresies) or polytheism (the apostasy).

I wouldn't call revealed theology 'confining God,' I just go by what He Himself told us, through scripture. Believing that God speaks to us 'in the silence of the world', 'through creation,' leads to natural theology, panentheism and even pantheism. God reveals Himself through His Son, scripture and preaching (Barth in a nutshell). Just because Christ spoke to His apostles in dreams doesn't mean He will do it by default. Should we expect donkeys to reveal God's truth like one did in the days of Biliam too then?

Funny you of all people wish to lecture me on apostasy btw.