The following will not inherit the kingdom of heaven?

[AtonedFor]

I am going on the verses of the Bible that say Depart from me I never knew you.
... What are your thoughts?

My thoughts are that ... you are very obviously correct.

John 10:
27 My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me.
28 And I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish ...

John 17:
3 And this is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God,
and Jesus Christ whom You have sent.

Also, IMO, Jesus says "Depart from me I never knew you" (Matt 7:23)
to those who did not do the will of Father God in heaven (Matt 7:21).

 

[The_highwayman]

Great. Do you talk frankly with them when they ask your opinion about their particular sin set? The farther they get into grace and faith, the more sorry they are over their life so far, what with multiple felonies and little hope of making it once done paying for crimes. Or do you avoid all that and stick with that plan? Most tend to believe that whatever they learn and believe still might not be enough to please God, but they love the message. The stuff they want to "share" is getting pretty sordid, but it seems they really need to talk it out in private and in a group setting. So far I lay the hammer down when they bring sin up. They seem to handle it OK, but I can't really know.

Yes we talk frankly about SIN, but due to state law we are limited in what we can ask. Since I am not a state prison chaplain and only a religious services volunteer, I cannot ask them what they are incarcerated for and they cannot disclose what they have done. We get 2 hours per service, once a month and have between 150-200 in each service we have. We currently do 4 services a month. We do 2 men and 2 women services a month. We are in 2 minimum security transition prisons. So all our sheep are on the way out and are not serving life terms, we get and average of 8-12 months per inmate that faithfully attends.

We have found when they receive the true revelation of the position of righteousness, received by grace, through what Jesus did, we see the Holy Ghost take ascendency in their spirit man/ spirit woman and we watch anger, rejection, fear, condemnation and other lies and fetters of the enemy fall off and the new creation reality begins to take over in the their spirits. We give them 3 of the greatest revelations every Son or Daughter of God needs to gain to move forward in the kingdom.

When we have seen proof of salvation and spirit filling and we achieve a solid renewal of righteousness we then discuss. being a partaker of the divine nature. This also covers Isaiah 11.1-3, the beatitudes, Being led by the Spirit, the Spirit understanding of the Spirit upon and within. We talk about the Romans 12 motive gifts, the 9 Gifts of the Holy Spirit and also and the fruit of the spirit. They need to be taught that the fruit of the spirit is given for character and the gifts of the Spirit are for service. We then get into authority of the believer and wrap it up with the Spiritual warfare[the whole Armour of God, speaking to mountains and removing other destiny blockers, and pulling down strongholds]

God has called us to and Isaiah 61.1-3/Luke 4.18-19 ministry. It is our ministry to get them saved, filled with the spirit and empower them for the call. Testimonies come in from all over the state, we also work with our church partners to place them into churches we know will continue the good work God has started in them.

 

[dcontroversal]

This isn't the point. Every human being on Earth does one or other of those things, continually and inescapably, whether they are believers in God or not. There isn't one exeption, not one person on Earth who never does something that is biblically sinful. Therefore it cannot mean that people who do those things won't inherit the kingdom of God (because nobody would then inherit the kingdom of God, since everybody does one or another of those things), so it must mean that it is those qualities themselves which won't be present in the kingdom of God, or that the ability to do them won't be present in the minds of those who are in that state.

How, I'm not quite sure, but it almost, at least to me, comes across as a teaching about the mental progress of civilization. A few hundred years ago, for instance, a much higher percentage of people starved or were killed, rape of women was quite normal just like spouse abuse, women had no rights, men owned women, the powerful were more frequently outside the jurisdiction of law, legal premises and punishments were pettier and harsher respectively, worldwide initiatives to feed the hungry were unheard of, multi-national governments across several continents tended not to work together etc etc, whereas now these things have improved, and hopefully will continue to do so.

You know, in Jewish tradition, there is a unified purpose of human beings called 'tikkun olam', which means 'making the world a better place'. Perhaps the ''Kingdom of God'' is the end product of that.

The only problem with your theory is as follows..
1. The heart of man is deceitful above above all things and extremely wicked....
2. Evil men and seducers will wax worse and worse
3. Humanity is not getting better as it states clearly that knowledge shall increase, but humanity will not come to the knowledge of the truth en masse...

Genocide, sexual preversion, murder of babies in the womb, denial of biblical principles, the rejection of truth, the attempeted removal of Christian principles in favor of opinions, war, greed etc.....all point to the wickedness of humanity growing and points toward an implosion of humanity and not a better society....time runs short and soon it will all go south per se!

 

[Jason0047]

very good explanation. you and I do not usually see eye to eye, but man you nailed this one. happy new year to you and yours!!

Thank you, my brother. I am glad you liked it.

Oh, and may God bless you and your family this new year, too.

 

[forsha]

Is this saying the people that do these things are not saved?

Galatians 5:19-21English Standard Version (ESV)

19 Now the works of the flesh are evident: sexual immorality, impurity, sensuality,20 idolatry, sorcery, enmity, strife, jealousy, fits of anger, rivalries, dissensions, divisions,21 envy,[a] drunkenness, orgies, and things like these. I warn you, as I warned you before, that those who do such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.

Most of the time the scriptures talk about the kingdom of God, it is talking about the church that Jesus set up when he was on earth. Jesus died for those that God gave him to pay for their sins and none of these sins will keep them out of Heaven, but they can keep us from being a part of the church.

 

[forsha]

There is no conflict, the bible teaches one must do righteousness to be saved. The conflict occurs between the bible and the man-made faith only theology. Righteousness means right doing, and when one does what God said to do then he is right doing/righteous. God will not make righteous those that do not do what He said. Nor does Christ just randomly or for some unknown reason make people righteous.

Faith only contradicts all the verses that says man must do righteousness to be saved, as Mt 5:20.


2 Cor 5:21 "For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him"

How does one get "in Him"? By right doing, not by doing nothing.

The kingdom of heaven mentioned in Matt 5:20 is not referring to eternal salvation in an everlasting heaven, but it is talking about entering into the church that Jesus set up while he was on the earth. His church is his bride, which he is the husband of, and is reining as king at the present time. Jesus's church goes by many names in the scriptures, such as, The new Jerusalem, The church of God, the kingdom of heaven, the kingdom, the church of the first born, etc. Jesus died for all of the sins of those that God gave him, and none of those sins will keep un from our eternal heaven, but they can keep us from entering into his church (kingdom of heaven).

 

[forsha]

When will you admit to God that you cannot do righteousness? Rom 3:12 You cannot get saved until you first admit that you are lost.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

You cannot understand Grace until you understand how sinful you are, but you can not understand how sinful you are and still be saved eternally.

 

[SeaBass]

The kingdom of heaven mentioned in Matt 5:20 is not referring to eternal salvation in an everlasting heaven, but it is talking about entering into the church that Jesus set up while he was on the earth. His church is his bride, which he is the husband of, and is reining as king at the present time. Jesus's church goes by many names in the scriptures, such as, The new Jerusalem, The church of God, the kingdom of heaven, the kingdom, the church of the first born, etc. Jesus died for all of the sins of those that God gave him, and none of those sins will keep un from our eternal heaven, but they can keep us from entering into his church (kingdom of heaven).

No salvation can be found outside the church, the body of Christ.
Col 1:18 the body is the church and Eph 5:23 Christ is the Saviour of the body/church. We know the church is not a physical building but the church is made up of people that are Christians. So if it is possible, as you said, that "sins will keep un from our eternal heaven, but they can keep us from entering into his church (kingdom of heaven)" then you are essentially arguing one can be saved WITHOUT be a Christan/without being a part of the church.

 

[forsha]

your translating English and not the Greek

Rom 10.3 is about the Jews rejecting Jesus who became SIN for the Jews and in return the Jews would have been made the righteousness of God in Christ Jesus, but instead they chose to ignore the righteousness of God and went about to establish their own form of righteousness<<<<<<<<<<which was obeying God's Law and commands

You need to add Vs. 4-10 to VS.3 for proper context. I wonder if you omit VS. 4-10 because it completely refutes what you have been saying.

SO lets do Romans 10.3-10 shall we:
[SUP]3 [/SUP]For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God.
[SUP]4 [/SUP]For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth.
[SUP]5 [/SUP]For Moses describeth the righteousness which is of the law, That the man which doeth those things shall live by them.
[SUP]6 [/SUP]But the righteousness which is of faith speaketh on this wise, Say not in thine heart, Who shall ascend into heaven? (that is, to bring Christ down from above
[SUP]7 [/SUP]Or, Who shall descend into the deep? (that is, to bring up Christ again from the dead.)
[SUP]8 [/SUP]But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach;
[SUP]9 [/SUP]That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
[SUP]10 [/SUP]For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

It is evident your COC theology seeks to keep you bound and keep you under the sin-consciousnesses

Eternal salvation for God's elect, those that he gave to Jesus to die for their sins, was accomplished on the cross. That's when all the elect children of God were saved eternally. Rom 10:9-10 is talking about being delivered (saved) from non fellowship with God by not knowing the truth about what Jesus accomplished on the cross. You are saved (delivered)from this present evil world to eternal heaven, and you are saved (delivered) from the fear and lack of knowledge of the truth to the peace and comfort of the truth of what Jesus accomplished on the cross.. Most of the salvation scriptures are referring to a timely salvation (deliverance), as in Rom 10:9-10. Eternal salvation is not of works, lest any man should boast.

 

[forsha]

I find it interesting you never talk about Jesus.....He is the way, the truth and the life and he knew no sin, but was made sin, so you could be the righteousness of God in him.

They would have been saved had they would submit and accept Jesus as their high priest, but they rejected him and continued to follow their own self righteousness.

Submitting to God and obeying his commands do not save you...

There is a timely salvation (deliverance) in submitting to God and obeying his commands, but the carnal man will not, and cannot, submit to God and obey his commandments (1 Cor 2:11-14). Rom 10:9-10, he is talking about the people of Israel who are already saved eternally, because verse 2 tells us that they have a zeal of God.

 

[forsha]

This is going to lead you straight to the gates of hell friend. your good works are not righteous enough to get you to heaven.

AtonedFor is right. There is a salvation (deliverance) in doing righteous things and obeying God's commandments. We have many timely salvations here in this world which are dependent upon our good works, but our eternal salvation is only by grace and grace alone. Most of the salvation scriptures are referring to timely deliverances.

 

[iwant2serve]

What is the kingdom of God ?

The Kindom of God is a unseen place where God ruls and everything does what it was created to do as he created it. It is in short a place where his will is performed by evrything in it. The Bible says the His Kimgdom is in the believer and that is through the Holy Spirit because he brings us the will of God for our own lives.

 

[Marian29]

Is this saying the people that do these things are not saved?

[h=1]Galatians 5:19-21English Standard Version (ESV)[/h]19 Now the works of the flesh are evident: sexual immorality, impurity, sensuality,20 idolatry, sorcery, enmity, strife, jealousy, fits of anger, rivalries, dissensions, divisions,21 envy,[a] drunkenness, orgies, and things like these. I warn you, as I warned you before, that those who do such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.

Yes. That's a natural path. The more you sin, the more insensitive your heart will be to the Truth of God.

 

[ColinCat]

So if our bodies are burning in hell... What happens to the body in our grave? Is it duplicated?

 

[justin777]

The Pharisees followed all the laws and went to hell. Righteousness is by faith alone.

 

[Jeff_56]

Jesus told them that they kept part of the law fine, but that they neglected the more important matters; and should do both, not neglecting either.(look it up, but only if you're ready to follow Jesus.) Jesus told all His disciples what to do. And those who followed Him did what He says do. Those who walked away from Him didn't, and, died. "e" made all the difference.

The Pharisees followed all the laws and went to hell. Righteousness is by faith alone.

 

[Angela53510]

Is this saying the people that do these things are not saved?

Galatians 5:19-21English Standard Version (ESV)

19 Now the works of the flesh are evident: sexual immorality, impurity, sensuality,20 idolatry, sorcery, enmity, strife, jealousy, fits of anger, rivalries, dissensions, divisions,21 envy,[a] drunkenness, orgies, and things like these. I warn you, as I warned you before, that those who do such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.

I was saved in 1980, delivered totally from drinking, the occult and a whole bunch of things. Now, at that point I had not read the whole Bible through, mostly snippets gleaned from Baptist Sunday School as a child. So I knew the 10 commandments, the 23rd Psalm, the Lord's prayer and some other verses.

I tried my best to repent if I sinned, but I did not know that "fits of anger" was a sin. I was raised in a home, where everyone yelled all the time. In fact, on my paternal side, the whole family yelled, mostly not in anger. But in my home, angry words were the norm. I did not know any different, till in 1982, I was reading Galatians, feeling glad I had given up so much evil, but so shocked to find that my anger was a sin.

So was I not saved during those two years, as I prayed and sought God, went to every prayer meeting I could find, witnessed to everyone I met? God saved me, not of works, including the work of overcoming sin.

I needed the Holy Spirit to help me. From the moment I saw that part of Gal. 5:20, I prayed and asked God to help me be a
"quiet and gentle" person. I did quiet down a bit, but my temper continued to flare.

So did I lose my salvation every time I lost my temper? I repented, and begged God to change me. But God had another plan for this sin, or I think he would have delivered me of it from the moment I was saved, like the other things. Then in the early 1990's, I had to go on a drug called prednisone, for asthma and then RA, which is known to agitate and cause extreme mood swings. Except no one told me that, and my temper actually got worse for a time. (A long time, actually!) I lived under so much condemnation, I didn't know if I was in the Kingdom of God or not! So much for that noxious doctrine of Arminianism, and losing your salvation every time the drug I was on left me in a precarious mental state.

About 8 years ago, taking theology, we explored the good and the bad regarding soteriological viewpoints, and I realized that God had never let me go. Not even when I turned away from him, during the 4 or 5 years my RA was so bad I didn't want to live. Prednisone was my middle name in those days, and God knew and forgave me.

So I learned that God really did save, it was not my works, not my efforts, but only the shed blood of Christ on the cross and his resurrection. Which I had never stopped believing.

Around 2005, I got off of prednisone for about 5 years. During that time, I learned to stop losing my temper AS I was losing it. Then I began to stop losing it altogether. I was meditating on Scripture, learning a lot in Seminary, and God finally helped me to see things without overreacting, and I learned to speak more softly, conditional on my husband having hearing aids in.

I still have to take prednisone occasionally, but I can gauge my mood and irritability, and I go off of it, and take asprin derviatives which I am allergic to, with Bendryl. I guess all those years of self judgment and failure still weigh on my so heavily, that I would rather die from anaphylatic shock than go to hell for losing my temper! LOL

Not that I believe God has let go of me for one microsecond, because he saved me from eternity from the moment he revealed himself to me, and I believed!

"For God so loved the world, he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him shall not die, but have everlasting life. " John 3:16

"Because if you confess with your mouth Jesus is Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you shall be saved. For with the heart one believes and is justified, and with the mouth one confesses and is saved." Romans 10:9-10

 

[kennethcadwell]

I was saved in 1980, delivered totally from drinking, the occult and a whole bunch of things. Now, at that point I had not read the whole Bible through, mostly snippets gleaned from Baptist Sunday School as a child. So I knew the 10 commandments, the 23rd Psalm, the Lord's prayer and some other verses.

I tried my best to repent if I sinned, but I did not know that "fits of anger" was a sin. I was raised in a home, where everyone yelled all the time. In fact, on my paternal side, the whole family yelled, mostly not in anger. But in my home, angry words were the norm. I did not know any different, till in 1982, I was reading Galatians, feeling glad I had given up so much evil, but so shocked to find that my anger was a sin.

So was I not saved during those two years, as I prayed and sought God, went to every prayer meeting I could find, witnessed to everyone I met? God saved me, not of works, including the work of overcoming sin.

I needed the Holy Spirit to help me. From the moment I saw that part of Gal. 5:20, I prayed and asked God to help me be a
"quiet and gentle" person. I did quiet down a bit, but my temper continued to flare.

So did I lose my salvation every time I lost my temper? I repented, and begged God to change me. But God had another plan for this sin, or I think he would have delivered me of it from the moment I was saved, like the other things. Then in the early 1990's, I had to go on a drug called prednisone, for asthma and then RA, which is known to agitate and cause extreme mood swings. Except no one told me that, and my temper actually got worse for a time. (A long time, actually!) I lived under so much condemnation, I didn't know if I was in the Kingdom of God or not! So much for that noxious doctrine of Arminianism, and losing your salvation every time the drug I was on left me in a precarious mental state.

About 8 years ago, taking theology, we explored the good and the bad regarding soteriological viewpoints, and I realized that God had never let me go. Not even when I turned away from him, during the 4 or 5 years my RA was so bad I didn't want to live. Prednisone was my middle name in those days, and God knew and forgave me.

So I learned that God really did save, it was not my works, not my efforts, but only the shed blood of Christ on the cross and his resurrection. Which I had never stopped believing.

Around 2005, I got off of prednisone for about 5 years. During that time, I learned to stop losing my temper AS I was losing it. Then I began to stop losing it altogether. I was meditating on Scripture, learning a lot in Seminary, and God finally helped me to see things without overreacting, and I learned to speak more softly, conditional on my husband having hearing aids in.

I still have to take prednisone occasionally, but I can gauge my mood and irritability, and I go off of it, and take asprin derviatives which I am allergic to, with Bendryl. I guess all those years of self judgment and failure still weigh on my so heavily, that I would rather die from anaphylatic shock than go to hell for losing my temper! LOL

Not that I believe God has let go of me for one microsecond, because he saved me from eternity from the moment he revealed himself to me, and I believed!

"For God so loved the world, he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him shall not die, but have everlasting life. " John 3:16

"Because if you confess with your mouth Jesus is Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you shall be saved. For with the heart one believes and is justified, and with the mouth one confesses and is saved." Romans 10:9-10

Not every sin can or will be turned from and stopped immediately.
Some sins are harder to walk away from for some people then others. The point would be if you still stay faithful and obedient to Him by walking in love and showing your love to Him by confessing those sins. Acknowledging your wrong doings to Him, for by acknowledging your sins to Him you are showing a true faithful sorrow for what you have done.

The bible makes it clear that the true believer when they sin will feel Godly sorrow that they feel from the Holy Spirit for grieving Him, and that sorrow will lead you to repentance and confession. Then the Lord being are advocate and just will forgive you of that sin keeping you pure in His eyes.

 

[kennethcadwell]

The Pharisees followed all the laws and went to hell. Righteousness is by faith alone.

No the Pharisees perverted the law and added things to it for others to have to obey, but they themselves did not keep and follow it themselves.

Matthew 23:3
So you must be careful to do everything they tell you. But do not do what they do, for they do not practice what they preach.

 

[Hizikyah]

The Pharisees followed all the laws and went to hell. Righteousness is by faith alone.

The Pharisees had their own law.......

Matt 15:2-3, "Why do Your disciples transgress the traditions of the elders? For they do not wash their hands when they eat. But He answered, and said to them: And why do you transgress the Laws of Yahweh by your traditions?"