The following will not inherit the kingdom of heaven?

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you COC's believe in works and obedience lead to salvation and that is 100% contrary to the word, you do so at your own peril...

Obedience is the steppingstone to righteousness, disobedience, to unrighteousness. To obey Jesus Christ, the Lord, is to be his servants. If we obey Him, by the obedience to Him we come to the state of righteousness into life.
 
Obedience is the steppingstone to righteousness, disobedience, to unrighteousness. To obey Jesus Christ, the Lord, is to be his servants. If we obey Him, by the obedience to Him we come to the state of righteousness into life.

The Bible says obedience and works do not make you righteous anymore than sitting in a garage makes you a car.
 
What makes you righteous?

2 cor 5.21-
[SUP]21 [/SUP]For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him

God's grace made me righteous when I believed through faith that his Son died on the cross and rose again and now sits at the right hand of the Father.

Righteousness is position not self promotion based on personal performance. You will never be able to attain what Jesus did for you.
 
2 cor 5.21-
[SUP]21 [/SUP]For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him

God's grace made me righteous when I believed through faith that his Son died on the cross and rose again and now sits at the right hand of the Father.

Righteousness is position not self promotion based on personal performance. You will never be able to attain what Jesus did for you.

But, you did just promote yourself...when you believed through faith.

Jesus took our nature and shared our sorrows here on earth, that we might be with him and partake of his nature and share his glories in heaven. This plea for reconciliation was to the Corinthians whom he called "saints." This shows that while the reconciliation had begun by their entrance into Christ, it was not completed and perfected, and the entreaty was to complete and perfect the reconciliation. That reconciliation will be completed and perfected only when man in his heart and life has been brought into complete harmony with God, "bringing every thought into captivity to the obedience of Christ." (10:5.)
 
Salvation is not "Easy Believism" and neither is it "Works Salvationism." Salvation is "Relationshipism."

Salvation is not "Easy Believism" because nobody can just believe Jesus is the Savior and or do a one time quick prayer and then turn around and act like nothing ever happened whereby one will go back to the ways of world and abide in sin as a way of life like one used to do. Neither is salvation "Works Salvationism" because God's grace is a gift of God and not of works. For nobody can earn their salvation by doing a bunch of good deeds and or striving to be holy because one's life is already imperfect and is bound to mess up again whereby one needs God's grace to perfect themselves in walking with God. True salvation is in trusting in Jesus Christ and having a relationship with Him. One is saved not by a mental acknowledgment (Easy Believism). One is saved because they have been born again spiritually and have been transformed by the Spirit. They are a new creature in Christ. They are saved by abiding in Christ; And if one abides in Christ, then the Lord will do the good work within you (Conforming you to His image). Works. Not of your own doing, but works that God does thru you. Those who endure in the faith are not those who want to do good works so as to be saved. Those who endure in the faith are those who are regenerated spiritually by God whereby Christ is the author and finisher of their faith (helping them to endure). For Jesus said we can do nothing without Him. It is Christ Jesus who is you Savior. Jesus is not your Savior-To-Do-Evil whereby you have a license to sin (With the thinking you can do evil and still be saved). Neither is Jesus your Co-Savior whereby you have to help Jesus to add to what Jesus Christ has done for you. We abide in Christ and the works will naturally result and or produce themselves in time because one is saved and changed by the power of God. If there is no works or holiness, then one has not truly repented. One does not just believe and then continue to abide in unrepentant sin, neither does one go out and do a bunch of works and good things so as to save oneself. One can be saved right here and right now. But it takes true repentance. Then one can have a relationship with Jesus Christ; Without Jesus, you got no true salvation. For Jesus is one's eternal life and salvation. It's not a mental acknowledgment alone and neither is it works.
 
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2 cor 5.21-
[SUP]21 [/SUP]For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him

God's grace made me righteous when I believed through faith that his Son died on the cross and rose again and now sits at the right hand of the Father.

Righteousness is position not self promotion based on personal performance. You will never be able to attain what Jesus did for you.


2 Cor 5:21 ends with that one is made righteous "IN HIM".

How does one ever get "in him" to be made righteous? DOes one get 'in Him" by doing unrighteousness?
 
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I don't know why I'm sharing the following sentence, I guess I'm just thinking out loud . . .

Pharisees weren't very righteous so Jesus really didn't set the bar too high on that one.

You are very correct here...

Mat 23:4 For they bind heavy burdens, hard to bear, and lay them on men's shoulders; but they themselves will not move them with one of their fingers.
Mat 23:5 But all their works they do to be seen by men. They make their phylacteries broad and enlarge the borders of their garments.

Mat 23:13 "But woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you shut up the kingdom of heaven against men; for you neither go in yourselves, nor do you allow those who are entering to go in.
Mat 23:14 Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you devour widows' houses, and for a pretense make long prayers. Therefore you will receive greater condemnation.
Mat 23:15 "Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you travel land and sea to win one proselyte, and when he is won, you make him twice as much a son of hell as yourselves.
Mat 23:16 "Woe to you, blind guides, who say, 'Whoever swears by the temple, it is nothing; but whoever swears by the gold of the temple, he is obliged to perform it.'
Mat 23:17 Fools and blind! For which is greater, the gold or the temple that sanctifies the gold?
Mat 23:18 And, 'Whoever swears by the altar, it is nothing; but whoever swears by the gift that is on it, he is obliged to perform it.'
Mat 23:19 Fools and blind! For which is greater, the gift or the altar that sanctifies the gift?
Mat 23:20 Therefore he who swears by the altar, swears by it and by all things on it.
Mat 23:21 He who swears by the temple, swears by it and by Him who dwells in it.
Mat 23:22 And he who swears by heaven, swears by the throne of God and by Him who sits on it.
Mat 23:23 "Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have neglected the weightier matters of the law: justice and mercy and faith. These you ought to have done, without leaving the others undone.
Mat 23:24 Blind guides, who strain out a gnat and swallow a camel!
Mat 23:25 "Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you cleanse the outside of the cup and dish, but inside they are full of extortion and self-indulgence.
Mat 23:26 Blind Pharisee, first cleanse the inside of the cup and dish, that the outside of them may be clean also.
Mat 23:27 "Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you are like whitewashed tombs which indeed appear beautiful outwardly, but inside are full of dead men's bones and all uncleanness.
Mat 23:28 Even so you also outwardly appear righteous to men, but inside you are full of hypocrisy and lawlessness.
Mat 23:29 "Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! Because you build the tombs of the prophets and adorn the monuments of the righteous,
Mat 23:30 and say, 'If we had lived in the days of our fathers, we would not have been partakers with them in the blood of the prophets.'
Mat 23:31 "Therefore you are witnesses against yourselves that you are sons of those who murdered the prophets.
Mat 23:32 Fill up, then, the measure of your fathers' guilt.
Mat 23:33 Serpents, brood of vipers! How can you escape the condemnation of hell?
Mat 23:34 Therefore, indeed, I send you prophets, wise men, and scribes: some of them you will kill and crucify, and some of them you will scourge in your synagogues and persecute from city to city,
Mat 23:35 that on you may come all the righteous blood shed on the earth, from the blood of righteous Abel to the blood of Zechariah, son of Berechiah, whom you murdered between the temple and the altar.
Mat 23:36 Assuredly, I say to you, all these things will come upon this generation.
Mat 23:37 "O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, the one who kills the prophets and stones those who are sent to her! How often I wanted to gather your children together, as a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, but you were not willing!
 
Salvation is not "Easy Believism" and neither is it "Works Salvationism." Salvation is "Relationshipism."

Salvation is not "Easy Believism" because nobody can just believe Jesus is the Savior and or do a one time quick prayer and then turn around and act like nothing ever happened whereby one will go back to the ways of world and abide in sin as a way of life like one used to do. Neither is salvation "Works Salvationism" because God's grace is a gift of God and not of works. For nobody can earn their salvation by doing a bunch of good deeds and or striving to be holy because one's life is already imperfect and is bound to mess up again whereby one needs God's grace to perfect themselves in walking with God. True salvation is in trusting in Jesus Christ and having a relationship with Him. One is saved not by a mental acknowledgment (Easy Believism). One is saved because they have been born again spiritually and have been transformed by the Spirit. They are a new creature in Christ. They are saved by abiding in Christ; And if one abides in Christ, then the Lord will do the good work within you (Conforming you to His image). Works. Not of your own doing, but works that God does thru you. Those who endure in the faith are not those who want to do good works so as to be saved. Those who endure in the faith are those who are regenerated spiritually by God whereby Christ is the author and finisher of their faith (helping them to endure). For Jesus said we can do nothing without Him. It is Christ Jesus who is you Savior. Jesus is not your Savior-To-Do-Evil whereby you have a license to sin (With the thinking you can do evil and still be saved). Neither is Jesus your Co-Savior whereby you have to help Jesus to add to what Jesus Christ has done for you. We abide in Christ and the works will naturally result and or produce themselves in time because one is saved and changed by the power of God. If there is no works or holiness, then one has not truly repented. One does not just believe and then continue to abide in unrepentant sin, neither does one go out and do a bunch of works and good things so as to save oneself. One can be saved right here and right now. But it takes true repentance. Then one can have a relationship with Jesus Christ; Without Jesus, you got no true salvation. For Jesus is one's eternal life and salvation. It's not a mental acknowledgment alone and neither is it works.

very good explanation. you and I do not usually see eye to eye, but man you nailed this one. happy new year to you and yours!!
 
2 Cor 5:21 ends with that one is made righteous "IN HIM".

How does one ever get "in him" to be made righteous? DOes one get 'in Him" by doing unrighteousness?

your human understanding would cause your head to explode if i were to even attempt to explode...
 
This what we do in our Prison Ministry. We teach and preach righteousness and by understanding the position of righteousness and understanding grace, they all become more holy on accident than they ever will on purpose.

We are beginning year 2 this January on this path. This year we begin talking to our sheep about the divine nature and how sin is a nature to the lost and then becomes a CHOICE to the believer.

We will spend the next 4 months hammering away at them with 2 Peter 1.1-11

Great. Do you talk frankly with them when they ask your opinion about their particular sin set? The farther they get into grace and faith, the more sorry they are over their life so far, what with multiple felonies and little hope of making it once done paying for crimes. Or do you avoid all that and stick with that plan? Most tend to believe that whatever they learn and believe still might not be enough to please God, but they love the message. The stuff they want to "share" is getting pretty sordid, but it seems they really need to talk it out in private and in a group setting. So far I lay the hammer down when they bring sin up. They seem to handle it OK, but I can't really know.
 
You will get a better response by preaching the Gospel, trust me I know. I don't know everything, but from Preaching in prisons and rehab centers. The gospel brings the best response. Okay what is the gospel, do you know?

2 Peter 1 reveals the requirement of partaking of the divine nature of Christ. That is the heart of the gospel of Christ.
 
No, believing you can abide in the type of unrepentant sins that Paul warns us about with the thinking you are still saved is not Biblical.

First, all liars will have their part in the Lake of Fire would also include believers. All means all. So believers are not exempt in lying. You can't lie and refuse to repent of such a sin and expect to be in God's good graces. For Jesus said you will know a false prophet (i.e. false believer) by their fruits. For a good tree will not bring forth bad fruit and vise versa. 1 John 1:6 says if we say we have fellowship with Him and walk in darkness, we lie and do not the truth; And 1 John 1:7 says, But if we walk in the Light as He is in the Light, we have fellowship one with another and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanses us from all sin.

Second, many times the references to the Law was to the Law of Moses and not to the Commands in the New Testament. Granted, we are not justified by works because we have God's grace to fall back upon. For if we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness (1 John 1:9). For if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous (1 John 2:1). So you get cleansed thru repenting of your sins. No repentance = No salvation.

In addition, as for your reference about "cook" in relation to Hell: Well, no one is going to "cook" as you so eloquently put it. The wicked (Including false believers who think they can abide in unrepentant sin and still be saved) will be destroyed both body and soul in the Lake of Fire. For Jesus said, fear not him who can destroy the body, but fear him who can destroy both body and soul in Hell (i.e. Gehenna, - the Lake of Fire) (Matthew 10:28). For the last enemy to be destroyed is death. Which means there are other enemies of God that will be destroyed, such as the wicked (or those who are of the devil's kingdom).


No offense, but your statement about believers cooking in hell is about as smart as the rocks in my drive way.....dude I recommend that you take a course on how to actually....
1. Study the bible
2. Interpret the bible
3. How to understand the bible

And open your eyes.....
 
I know that at times we have a hard time listening to each other, but I guess my question would be How well do we listen to God?

I am going on the verses of the Bible that say Depart from me I never knew you. So while these same people are saying, but Lord we cast out demons in Your Name and did many other Christianly things. Yet Jesus is saying Depart from me I never knew you.

So again my question is Are we listening to God?

This past year I had more than one problem I needed help with and gave them to the Lord talked with Him about them and said I can't do it I am giving it to You to handle....He did He fixed those problems for me and then He prompted me to do different things like ask to sing in a church I don't normally attend. I love to sing harmony and don't feel I have a solo voice....but I did what He prompted me to do and they allowed me to sing in their church. He then prompted me to preach a sermon on Do You Understand Salvation? I am most definitely not a public speaker nor do I ever want to be, but I asked two different Pastors of two different churches one said yes and last August I preached that sermon. Mind you I did not want to do it and have had a horrible public speaking experience in high school and was afraid. But right before speaking I talked with God and knew this is what He wanted me to do so even though scared I knew that God was with me and I was doing this for Him.

So don't you think that even though the righteousness, faith, works and all those things are important...... How many of us have that relationship with God and listen to Him telling us or asking us or is it prompting us to do things for Him and How many times do we listen and follow through? Is this possibly what He is talking about when He is saying Depart from me I never knew you? Do we listen and obey His prompts? In a true confession I do not always listen and obey those prompts because sometimes they seem too hard.....But this last year listening and obeying it has really taken me out of my comfort zone and makes me believe that the relationship I have with God is building my faith to a much stronger level than it was before. Also listening to those prompts and obeying lead me to my husband after being single for 35 years.

As I listen and obey my confidence in Him is so very much stronger. He is and has built my faith in Him and I just want to continue to hold His hand and walk home knowing He is by my side leading all the way home..... What are your thoughts?
 
No offense, but your statement about believers cooking in hell is about as smart as the rocks in my drive way.....dude I recommend that you take a course on how to actually....
1. Study the bible
2. Interpret the bible
3. How to understand the bible

And open your eyes.....

First, nobody is going to cook in Hell as you so eloquently like to put it. The wicked will perish in the Lake of fire. They will meet their end or destruction. Paul uses the words "everlasting destruction." Jesus says, "fear not him who can destroy the body, but fear him who can destroy both body and soul in Hell (i.e. Gehenna, Lake of Fire).

Second, truth is ultimately taught by the Spirit. For the Scriptures say the Spirit shall guide you into all truth. Do you believe that? I believe that, and I believe the Spirit has guided me to learn many truths within God's Word. I think the problem arises with many believers is that they don't want to let go of their church traditions and not be accepted.

Third, believers can have an evil heart of unbelief and depart from the living God.

Hebrews 3:12
Take heed, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief, in departing from the living God.

In other words, you can't depart from Houston airport unless you are in Houston airport. Meaning, you can't depart from the living God unless you are in favor with the living God. Somebody that does not know God cannot depart from the living God. They are already departed, cut off, separated, etc.

Anyways, there are tons of verses of warnings like this to the believer. One has to do major gymnastics with Scripture in order to ignore them because of some church tradition that teaches you can sin and or do evil against God and still be saved.
 
Awesome testimony, JesusLives,
thank you.

by your words we can see how our Father works and draws us
from faith to faith as we leave behind old worldly impressions
that hold us back.
new steps are truly amazing as we over-come and travel on the
new paths He has made for us, we can't help but to rejoice
as we experience His most profound Love.
 
The bible also states....

All men are liars and all liars shall have their part in the lake of fire........so will all will cook?

Being found in Jesus by faith removes the condemnation of the law that hangs over the head of every man who was lost and condemned to the lake of fire!

This isn't the point. Every human being on Earth does one or other of those things, continually and inescapably, whether they are believers in God or not. There isn't one exeption, not one person on Earth who never does something that is biblically sinful. Therefore it cannot mean that people who do those things won't inherit the kingdom of God (because nobody would then inherit the kingdom of God, since everybody does one or another of those things), so it must mean that it is those qualities themselves which won't be present in the kingdom of God, or that the ability to do them won't be present in the minds of those who are in that state.

How, I'm not quite sure, but it almost, at least to me, comes across as a teaching about the mental progress of civilization. A few hundred years ago, for instance, a much higher percentage of people starved or were killed, rape of women was quite normal just like spouse abuse, women had no rights, men owned women, the powerful were more frequently outside the jurisdiction of law, legal premises and punishments were pettier and harsher respectively, worldwide initiatives to feed the hungry were unheard of, multi-national governments across several continents tended not to work together etc etc, whereas now these things have improved, and hopefully will continue to do so.

You know, in Jewish tradition, there is a unified purpose of human beings called 'tikkun olam', which means 'making the world a better place'. Perhaps the ''Kingdom of God'' is the end product of that.