How do you know it was REALLY God?

[cinder]

This may be an over analytical spew session, but I am interested in hearing what others think. Been thinking about the idea of God’s guidance and how we can be certain (or at least certain enough to stick with it through the times when it isn’t easy). A couple situations in my life have me questioning a lot of what I thought was God at the time but now I’m not so sure. I’ll talk about them in more detail as illustrations, but I’m a big picture thinker and not really looking so much for advice on my situations as I am the overarching principle and thoughts that I can apply to knowing what God wants me to do (and yes I already know it has to line up with what God has revealed in the Bible, you don’t need to say that).


Example 1: I met a guy at church and after some prayer on my part, I thought God wanted me to be his friend. We had a lot in common in terms of how we process the world and talk about things, but very little in common in terms of values and lifestyle. Bottom line he’s a mess (possible mental illness, drug and alcohol use, sleeping around, rejection issues, etc.), but early in our acquaintance I really felt like God said he needed a friend that would see the good in him and stick by him no matter what and that that was what God wanted me to do. He moved back to the US a year ago but still writes occasionally and kind of emotionally dumps on me. And I wonder, did I hear God right about sticking by him or was that my own loneliness speaking because I was desperate for a good friend? Should I keep sticking by him and letting him emotionally dump on me or should I try to subtly extricate myself from the friendship through silence? ( I simply do not and don’t think I ever would have the heart to tell him to get lost because he’s too messed up for me to keep being his friend even if that were the truth)


Example 2: Watched a very good video last year that called into question whether a lot of my Holy Spirit experiences over the past decade and a half or so have truly been the Holy Spirit or if they have a different spiritual source (see my first blog post for more details). So yeah if every way I’ve ever been taught to hear God and receive guidance came from people who are now suspect of being under the influence of an unholy spirit, how can I know much of anything? Yet without the experience (can’t say without the Holy Spirit because I don’t intend to live without the Holy Spirit) everything seems so dry and abstract and faith doesn’t seem real life and practical but more pie in the sky wishful thinking.


So how do you (you specifically not the generic you meaning anyone) determine how God is guiding you in the difficult situations where there is no clear cut answer in Scripture? Do you have any checks in place to make sure that your “guidance” isn’t just you trying to justify what you want to do?

 

[zeroturbulence]

I pray and ask God to speak to me through scripture and then I randomly open my bible or this scripture book that I have. 95% of the time my eyes go straight to a shockingly relevant scripture which makes sense as an answer to my question. The other 5% of the time I think God is purposefully giving me the silent treatment.

Most times, God tells me not to fear. A lot of times he tells me to trust in Him. Sometimes he says he will comfort me. Sometimes he says that if I obey Him my plans will prosper.

 

[mistah]

This may be an over analytical spew session, but I am interested in hearing what others think. Been thinking about the idea of God’s guidance and how we can be certain (or at least certain enough to stick with it through the times when it isn’t easy). A couple situations in my life have me questioning a lot of what I thought was God at the time but now I’m not so sure. I’ll talk about them in more detail as illustrations, but I’m a big picture thinker and not really looking so much for advice on my situations as I am the overarching principle and thoughts that I can apply to knowing what God wants me to do (and yes I already know it has to line up with what God has revealed in the Bible, you don’t need to say that).


Example 1: I met a guy at church and after some prayer on my part, I thought God wanted me to be his friend. We had a lot in common in terms of how we process the world and talk about things, but very little in common in terms of values and lifestyle. Bottom line he’s a mess (possible mental illness, drug and alcohol use, sleeping around, rejection issues, etc.), but early in our acquaintance I really felt like God said he needed a friend that would see the good in him and stick by him no matter what and that that was what God wanted me to do. He moved back to the US a year ago but still writes occasionally and kind of emotionally dumps on me. And I wonder, did I hear God right about sticking by him or was that my own loneliness speaking because I was desperate for a good friend? Should I keep sticking by him and letting him emotionally dump on me or should I try to subtly extricate myself from the friendship through silence? ( I simply do not and don’t think I ever would have the heart to tell him to get lost because he’s too messed up for me to keep being his friend even if that were the truth)


Example 2: Watched a very good video last year that called into question whether a lot of my Holy Spirit experiences over the past decade and a half or so have truly been the Holy Spirit or if they have a different spiritual source (see my first blog post for more details). So yeah if every way I’ve ever been taught to hear God and receive guidance came from people who are now suspect of being under the influence of an unholy spirit, how can I know much of anything? Yet without the experience (can’t say without the Holy Spirit because I don’t intend to live without the Holy Spirit) everything seems so dry and abstract and faith doesn’t seem real life and practical but more pie in the sky wishful thinking.


So how do you (you specifically not the generic you meaning anyone) determine how God is guiding you in the difficult situations where there is no clear cut answer in Scripture? Do you have any checks in place to make sure that your “guidance” isn’t just you trying to justify what you want to do?

Woah, deep waters, cinder. & hello!

Differentiating between my voice & God's voice: I don't know what God sounds like, but I know, of course, what I sound like, so when weighing thought against thought it becomes a process of elimination and I readily decide to act on the last remaining intuition, though in hindsight many of those were all me, so really in my opinion it is about being genuine with Him & being honest with yourself.

I'm not a prayer warrior, I just kind of talk to Him all day. I think He can work with everything I choose to do, so my way of accomplishing His will is more free-flowy (sorry for the dumb made-up word), but I counterbalance this by returning to Him in deep solemn reverence, and He makes it work, because (I believe) He sees my heart and kind of honors what I do with lots of grace and a splash of His authority.

Thinking on this makes me want to erect "Sin: Do Not Enter" signs around my heart, just so that the flow between Him and me can be more distinguishable and something I cherish more.

 

[1still_waters]

This may be an over analytical spew session, but I am interested in hearing what others think. Been thinking about the idea of God’s guidance and how we can be certain (or at least certain enough to stick with it through the times when it isn’t easy). A couple situations in my life have me questioning a lot of what I thought was God at the time but now I’m not so sure. I’ll talk about them in more detail as illustrations, but I’m a big picture thinker and not really looking so much for advice on my situations as I am the overarching principle and thoughts that I can apply to knowing what God wants me to do (and yes I already know it has to line up with what God has revealed in the Bible, you don’t need to say that).


Example 1: I met a guy at church and after some prayer on my part, I thought God wanted me to be his friend. We had a lot in common in terms of how we process the world and talk about things, but very little in common in terms of values and lifestyle. Bottom line he’s a mess (possible mental illness, drug and alcohol use, sleeping around, rejection issues, etc.), but early in our acquaintance I really felt like God said he needed a friend that would see the good in him and stick by him no matter what and that that was what God wanted me to do. He moved back to the US a year ago but still writes occasionally and kind of emotionally dumps on me. And I wonder, did I hear God right about sticking by him or was that my own loneliness speaking because I was desperate for a good friend? Should I keep sticking by him and letting him emotionally dump on me or should I try to subtly extricate myself from the friendship through silence? ( I simply do not and don’t think I ever would have the heart to tell him to get lost because he’s too messed up for me to keep being his friend even if that were the truth)


Example 2: Watched a very good video last year that called into question whether a lot of my Holy Spirit experiences over the past decade and a half or so have truly been the Holy Spirit or if they have a different spiritual source (see my first blog post for more details). So yeah if every way I’ve ever been taught to hear God and receive guidance came from people who are now suspect of being under the influence of an unholy spirit, how can I know much of anything? Yet without the experience (can’t say without the Holy Spirit because I don’t intend to live without the Holy Spirit) everything seems so dry and abstract and faith doesn’t seem real life and practical but more pie in the sky wishful thinking.


So how do you (you specifically not the generic you meaning anyone) determine how God is guiding you in the difficult situations where there is no clear cut answer in Scripture? Do you have any checks in place to make sure that your “guidance” isn’t just you trying to justify what you want to do?

Yet without the experience (can’t say without the Holy Spirit because I don’t intend to live without the Holy Spirit) everything seems so dry and abstract and faith doesn’t seem real life and practical but more pie in the sky wishful thinking.

Our walk is by faith,not feeling. Dry and abstract is fine. (Unless it's due to some type of rebellion/sin/etc. Just have to throw that caveat in there because this is the Internet and folks hear things being said that aren't being said.)
Everything rests on Jesus anyways, not our feelings.
When everything feels dry and abstract, ask yourself, "Do things rest on my feelings or on what Jesus did for me?"

So yeah if every way I’ve ever been taught to hear God and receive guidance came from people who are now suspect of being under the influence of an unholy spirit, how can I know much of anything?

I spent around 20 years in a sect that gave misguided teachings on guidance and the Holy Spirit also. Don't beat yourself up for sincerely wanting to hear from, and follow God. God knows our heart, and your intention was to hear and obey. It's just that you had some bad guides. It's actually admirable to want to hear God and follow Him. It's a good indicator things are good in your heart.

So how do you (you specifically not the generic you meaning anyone) determine how God is guiding you in the difficult situations where there is no clear cut answer in Scripture? Do you have any checks in place to make sure that your “guidance” isn’t just you trying to justify what you want to do?

This is so subjective, I don't know if I can give a clear answer.
To some extent it comes down to knowing that you know.

If you sincerely quiet yourself for a decent time period, and you honestly sense no direction, then don't go trying to conjure up a direction. In that situation it may be God giving you room to make decisions on your own, based on how your mind has been renewed, based on the fact you know right from wrong.

12 I appeal to you therefore, brothers,[a] by the mercies of God, to present your bodies as a living sacrifice, holy and acceptable to God, which is your spiritual worship.[b]2 Do not be conformed to this world,[c] but be transformed by the renewal of your mind, that by testing you may discern what is the will of God, what is good and acceptable and perfect.

Like God is later going to say, "Hey you listened to Me for direction. I gave you none. Why didn't you listen to the direction I gave you?" God isn't cray cray like that.

Also keep in mind, if God wants to get ahold of you for direct revelation, trust me, he knows your number and knows how to get ahold of you. Just ask Jonah, Paul, Moses, etc. Not that you shouldn't take time to listen, but don't stress yourself out either.

*Renew your mind so you can make decisions that generally align with general areas of God's will.
*Be open and listen for his guidance.
*If you get no guidance, then make the best decision you can make based on what you know is right.
*Know that God is more than capable of giving you direct revelation.

Yup there are probably things I missed.
That's why there is a reply button, so others can chime in.

 

[IBDesmond]

Example 1: If I was being facetious, I would say that God calls us to be everyone's friend doesn't he. I mean, would God ever tell you to not be friends with someone. I dunno if that helps in any way but I will elaborate on your scenario.
Where you are not is not always a reflection of poor choices in your past. It's not a reflection of misguidedness. You may think that because of how things are with you and this guy now, maybe God didn't ask you to be friends with him....maybe it was your insecurities at the time. Don't ever think that. You never know what the future holds and you never know how things will turn out. That guy might come to you in the future and say "You know what, I've been struggling with a lot recently and I've come so close to making some really stupid choices and I know we're not as close friends as we used to be but if it wasn't for what you said to me that time, I would be in a much worse situation" or "if it wasn't for you being there and just being a good friend without ulterior motives, I wouldn't even think I could trust women every again" or whatever....you just never know.

Example 2: That's a tough one. I mean, God moves and talks to everyone different. In some people he moves dramatically like a Tsunami crashing into a city. In some people he moves gently like a breeze caressing your hair. Who knows?


In answer to both: What I do when I'm unsure is....I thank God anyway. I tell God, "I'm not sure if that was you back there. I'm not sure if what I felt was the holy spirit but I thank you that you're there. I thank you for the peace I felt. I thank you for your peace and your holy spirit and I thank you that you never leave me or abandon me. I pray that I stay by your side forever" etc etc.


I don't know if that makes you feel any more at ease but that's what I do anyway. And continue to getting to know God.

 

[Lynx]

First thought: I'm reminded of a book titled, "Thus saith the Lord... or was that me?"

Second thought:
John 10:27 - My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:

How does a sheep know the shepherd's voice? Because he has heard it all his life and has learned to follow it. How do I know God's voice? Because I've learned to listen for it. How can I explain that? I can't.

Sorry, I know that doesn't help much when you're looking for quantitative analysis, A/B testing, etc. But it's all I've got. I know God's voice because I've learned to listen for Him.

 

[Joidevivre]

I began to develop a listening ear to His voice by beginning with the Word. After reading a verse that spoke to my heart, I would then ask the Lord to give me new insights about that scripture. I usually got new perspective about it or how to apply it, and always His heart behind the words.

I agree with Stillwaters that much of the time when you don't have a definite direction concerning a matter, God is allowing you to make a choice. He wants you to learn to make wise choices based on truths, strength and faith you have grown in. And, yes, if there is a specific direction God has to give you, you will know. Maybe not a "burning bush", but there will be a burning in your gut (spirit).

Ask for confirmation. The Lord confirms every word He speaks. Many times it will come through another mature Christian after you have asked them to pray for you.

Any direction that brings with it a spirit of fear is not from the Lord.

Even if you moved in a direction that you sensed was from the Lord and it wasn't, you acted in faith, and the Lord will honor your faith.

Cinder, that guy you thought the Lord was bringing you to befriend was probably the Lord behind it. You were his friend for a season for a reason. That doesn't mean forever. I'm sure you helped this person in ways you haven't seen yet. We can't judge whether we heard God right by the results.

Learning to move by the Holy Spirit's direction is a discipline and we all make mistakes as we are learning. I'm sure that wrong at least 10% of the time, but I sure don't want to miss the 90% of His leading by deciding not to listen for guidance anymore. His name is Counselor.

 

[JesusLives]

To the first - I have a gay friend Dan that I have been friends with for about 20 years. Both he and I have gone through changes some good and some not so good. At one point during the relationship when Dan had gotten caught up in some drug use and we ended up having a fight the friendship was just about over we lost contact for a while as I walked away. I had been in and out of church and had gone back to church and I prayed to God - If there is no chance for Dan to be saved then please remove him from my life but if there is a chance for him to be saved keep him in my life. I trust in God to know what He is doing and all I can say is that Dan is still in my life so God has a plan for him. We crossed paths for a reason and I continue to treat Dan like a Big Brother and part of the family.

The second part like you said as long as your life is lining up with scripture and you are walking with God reading His word praying and staying in contact with Him then trust that He is leading you and listen to the prompts He gives you even if they are hard and are out of your comfort zone. I used to lie to myself and say God wouldn't ask me to do anything too hard....out of my comfort zone. But God asked Jesus who agreed to go and die on a cross for us even when we still hated him and Jesus did it anyway sweating great drops of blood just to show us how hard it really was for him and how hard it was out of his comfort zone. So yes, God will ask us to do hard things for Him out of our comfort zones, but the Holy Spirit is with us all the way when it is in alignment with God's word and His will for our lives.... Some before us have even died for their faith.

God bless you in your walk with Jesus allowing the Holy Spirit to guide you.

 

[MissCris]

So how do you (you specifically not the generic you meaning anyone) determine how God is guiding you in the difficult situations where there is no clear cut answer in Scripture? Do you have any checks in place to make sure that your “guidance” isn’t just you trying to justify what you want to do?

Cinder,
The way each of our minds work is so completely opposite that I'm not sure I can be of any real help here, but I was so touched by your post that I want to try. There have been a lot (a whoooole lot) of times in just the last year that I've wondered the same thing, how do I really know if it's God leading me? I vividly recall what it feels like to want to be really sure, but to not know how. It's a little scary, and frustrating. It's easy to start over-thinking it, which only complicates it more.

We all start out as children in this world; we learn and grow and are guided by our parents until we're old enough and strong enough and smart enough (hopefully!) to set out on our own. Once we leave home, we face choices and decisions on a daily basis; how do we know what the right thing to do is, in any given situation? We no longer have our parents right there beside us to tell us "Choose A" or "Don't choose B because XYZ will happen as a result". So how do we get by? How do we make right choices?

We can do this because we were taught the difference between right and wrong, and because our parents laid down a foundation for us to build on in our own lives, and because we've spent a lot of time observing/hearing about things others have done and learning from the results they achieved with the choices they made. So when we choose a path to follow, we have a pretty good idea at the time where it's likely to end up, and whether it lines up with what we've been taught, and what we believe is right. We may ignore that, sure, but I think we nearly always have some idea.

For me, it's the same with God- He has given us a solid foundation upon which to build our lives and our faith. If we've paid any attention to that and taken it to heart, and we believe what He's told us in Scripture, then we don't always need to hear His voice about things; it's in our hearts. We may not always know for sure if we're doing something God has lead us to do (there we have to act in faith, as others have mentioned), but I think it's pretty clear to most of us when we're doing something that goes against God (although that's another thing that gets ignored often, up until the point we need the Lord to bail us out of whatever we've gotten ourselves into...or maybe that's just me...).

I've had to learn to accept that God isn't going to speak to me out of a burning bush. I'm not always going to know for sure if I'm doing something He wants me to do, or if I'm just doing what I want to do. But I take comfort in the certainty that I will always know when I'm going directly against Him and His Word, and that I can choose not to go against Him. I feel confident in some parts of my life that I'm obeying the Lord because it lines up with Scripture. And for the things in between, the things not mentioned in the Bible, I'm okay with having faith that I'm going at least mostly the right direction, because of the foundation God has given me.

...I hope that made sense, it's difficult to keep my brain on track when small children are driving cars on my head.

 

[ChandlerFan]

To try to give you a non-wordy answer, Cinder, I think the best way you can gauge whether or not some leading or proclivity is from God is to weigh it against Scripture and to seek out wise counsel from other believers about it. I've found a lot of confirmation of things I've been led toward from things people have said to me even at times when I hadn't even brought the subject up.
I think that Desmond makes a really good point about befriending that guy too. It seems like you may have been led toward doing what we're all called to do as Christians, but of course when you're dealing with a person living an unhealthy lifestyle, there do have to be set boundaries in place between you and him. So if you feel like something needs to be put in place that way, there's nothing wrong with that. I think when you get into the realm of the theological, though, like talking about who the Holy Spirit is and how He works in our lives, that's really where you can garner a lot of leading from Scripture and even Christ-centered books about the Holy Spirit that are founded in Scripture.

 

[ChandlerFan]

P.S. Two books about the Holy Spirit you could check out are Forgotten God by Francis Chan and The Secret by Bill Bright. I've read the second one, and found it to be very helpful and informative. The first one I haven't read, but I've heard good things about it.

 

[Atwood]

To the first - I have a gay friend Dan . . . . At one point during the relationship

Well, if he is gay, that is nice to be happy & carefree. But methinks you mean he likes to fornicate via the membrum virile in the wrong orifice, not designed for anything but expelling nasty stuff. In which case he is on an abominable path to eternal suffering.

You say "relationship" -- you mean you have been participating in the abominable insertion sin?

If so, know that your need is to trust Christ as Savior.

What must I do to be saved?
Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ & you shall be saved.

 

[Lynx]

One other thing I would mention: Because your friend didn't come to church, get right with God, etc. does not mean you didn't hear God's voice.

Once upon a time... a pastor was driving down a street one day and God told him to turn in at a house and knock on the door to tell the person living there about God. The pastor shrugged and turned in the driveway, went up to the door and knocked. When the person living there answered the door the pastor introduced himself and said, "Would you like to know about God?" The person immediately cussed him out and slammed the door.

Driving away from the house, the pastor started asking God why He would direct one of His servants to that house if God knew what was going to happen. God replied, "That was his chance to know Me, and he turned it down."

God has promised us one chance. Anything after that, any time God knocks at your heart after that first time, is not promised, but God has promised He will reach for everyone at least once. You might have been the one chance. God might have known your friend would reject Him, but He wanted to give your friend a chance anyway, send him someone who would tell him about God... and who would be a friend to him.

When you ask God for direction, it's not His fault everything doesn't go smoothly. Sometimes people just don't want to be helped.

 

[ServantStrike]

Well, if he is gay, that is nice to be happy & carefree. But methinks you mean he likes to fornicate via the membrum virile in the wrong orifice, not designed for anything but expelling nasty stuff. In which case he is on an abominable path to eternal suffering.

You say "relationship" -- you mean you have been participating in the abominable insertion sin?

If so, know that your need is to trust Christ as Savior.

What must I do to be saved?
Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ & you shall be saved.

Sweet mercy man, show some tact.

How many people do you think get won over to Christ when you go ripping through their lives like a chainsaw. Get to know someone for five minutes before you go straight for the throat. I'm pretty sure only God is the one who knows when that particular line of reasoning is best.

And besides, the lady you're talking to just got married - to a man. So, you really ought to watch who you start calling a sodomite and an adulteress.



*shakes head*
Sometimes I just don't get it...





As to the original post - Cinder I've thought on this one myself. I've come to the conclusion that almost any time I've ever felt like I was being spoken to directly, it was my own very active mind that did the speaking. I'm not prone to hearing voices, just my own thoughts. If I wanted to hear God badly enough, my mind is more than capable of faking it.

And the thing is, we already know where the heart comes from. It's unreliable at best, and our sinful nature this side of paradise can cause us to want things we know are wrong.

Heavy application of logic is not a bad thing. With enough knowledge of scripture, logic can be all the answer you need - after all, you can back up your decisions with scripture.


I'm having trouble thinking of many dangerous situations you could land in simply acting according to logic within the confines of scripture. Maybe some failed friendships, some hurt feelings, but most of the big stuff is already in the bible. Actually the only thing I can think of is missions work. I'd say one should be sure God is leading them to do that work as the bible doesn't say everyone who does it is safe (actually it indicates the opposite).

 

[Atwood]

So, you really ought to watch who you start calling a sodomite and an adulteress.

I didn't call anyone anything. I asked a question.

If you say I started calling someone a sodomite & an adulteress (when I did not), you need to repent of judging & consider what is the destiny of liars.

 

[ServantStrike]

I didn't call anyone anything. I asked a question.

If you say I started calling someone a sodomite & an adulteress (when I did not), you need to repent of judging & consider what is the destiny of liars.

You must be a lot of fun at parties.

Most people would make the assertion that you were implying it with your speech. You said nothing to the effect that you were not implying it, and these words directly accuse her of it.

You say "relationship" -- you mean you have been participating in the abominable insertion sin?

If so, know that your need is to trust Christ as Savior.

What must I do to be saved?
Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ & you shall be saved.

You mean to tell me that when you use the word "you" in a sentence while talking to someone, you aren't actually referring to that person?

What do you think. Does that sound like a reasonable assertion to you. When I use the word "you", do you think I'm referring to a nondescript third party, or to you (Atwood) specifically?

I think it sounds pretty unreasonable, especially when your follow up sentence is the typical Jesus juke response of "you need to be saved." In fact, if that's the case, then in one paragraph you use the word "you" to refer to a generic third person, but then you use it to refer to one specific individual in the next paragraph.

I think someone just got called out for not playing nice with others, and is now back pedaling.


The irony of this is not lost on me either. I'm saved, but of late I've probably acted in a way that would make the prodigal son blush.


Just don't go accusing people of things off the bat, okay? It's not constructive, and it gives the unsaved plenty of reasons to confirm their bias. Unless God specifically leads you to behave in that manner, it serves no purpose. And - returning to the purpose of this thread, it may not be God who's leading you to behave that way at all.

 

[cinder]

Well, if he is gay, that is nice to be happy & carefree. But methinks you mean he likes to fornicate via the membrum virile in the wrong orifice, not designed for anything but expelling nasty stuff. In which case he is on an abominable path to eternal suffering.

You say "relationship" -- you mean you have been participating in the abominable insertion sin?

If so, know that your need is to trust Christ as Savior.

What must I do to be saved?
Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ & you shall be saved.

You and your gay bashing are not welcome here. There are plenty of threads created for that, please take your attitude and self-righteousness there and stop derailing my thread.

 

[ChandlerFan]

Posts like his are better off being reported rather than responded to (especially because it was more abominable than anything I've ever seen a non-believer post here) You cannot reason with Bible thumpers.

What are your thoughts on others' responses, cinder?

 

[Lynx]

Eh? Bible thumper? Maybe it means something different where you live...

 

[cinder]

Posts like his are better off being reported rather than responded to (especially because it was more abominable than anything I've ever seen a non-believer post here) You cannot reason with Bible thumpers.

What are your thoughts on others' responses, cinder?

I appreciate everyone else's thoughts and comments. And the diversity thereof seems to remind me why I have this question, but that may help me realize that nailing down an exact answer isn't so important either. In the meantime, I plan to do some bible digging over situation 2 and situation 1 there's not a lot I can do now except pray and see what happens. I just don't particularly like being in such a position. And perhaps all the advice to turn to the Bible will inspire me to start a thread about verses that seem to contradict each other and how to apply "the whole counsel of scripture" to a situation that seems between those verses. (Example: Gal 6:1 vs. 1 Cor 5:11-13 issue: dealing with fellow believers who sin repeatedly)