OSAS true or false?

[Angela53510]

So if were a sinner and I went down to local Baptist church and I said I accept Christ and got dunked in water, I could do whatever I wanted to do and it would not be sin, Hey sign me up , cause I'm going to the bank.

This is the same straw man that all "lose your salvation" Arminianists always prop up with bad exegesis and a very poor understanding of the word of God.

If you are truly saved, then you WANT to do the will of God. You are moved by the Holy Spirit to obey God. You are repentant when you sin, and confess before God and man that you have failed.

"even as he chose us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and blameless before him. In love he predestined us for adoption as sons through Jesus Christ, according to the purpose of his will," Eph. 1:4-5

This is a verse that corresponds with the closing verses of Romans 8. God choses us, he saves us, he keeps us. That is salvation and sancitification.

As for those who appear to be saved, but then go back to sinning, John says it best.

"They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would have continued with us. But they went out, that it might become plain that they all are not of us." 1 John 2:19

 

[Kerry]

This is the same straw man that all "lose your salvation" Arminianists always prop up with bad exegesis and a very poor understanding of the word of God.

If you are truly saved, then you WANT to do the will of God. You are moved by the Holy Spirit to obey God. You are repentant when you sin, and confess before God and man that you have failed.

"even as he chose us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and blameless before him. In love he predestined us for adoption as sons through Jesus Christ, according to the purpose of his will," Eph. 1:4-5

This is a verse that corresponds with the closing verses of Romans 8. God choses us, he saves us, he keeps us. That is salvation and sancitification.

As for those who appear to be saved, but then go back to sinning, John says it best.

"They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would have continued with us. But they went out, that it might become plain that they all are not of us." 1 John 2:19

But that's not what they preach, just get dunked and give me oney and you okay. No cross is mentioned.

 

[ChristIsGod]

An unbreakable link...

Romans 8:28-30
28 And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose.
29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.
30 Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.

"For whom he did foreknow" is key .... next .... "he also did predestinate TO BE CONFORMED to the Image of His Son" .... not predestination for salvation --- the whom He did foreknow that would Love Him faithfully unto the end ---- those will have all things work together for the good which is that they are also predestined to be conformed to the Image of His Son, as He is the firstborn of all of these that He did Forknow would love Him unto the end, and have been predestinated to the Image of His Son and that is by all things wordking toward that good- and those are they whom He called, justified and glorified.


Those whom He foreknew would be faithful unto death will be osas. " 'Elect' according to the 'Foreknowledge' of God" as Peter wrote it. "Foreknew" and "Foreknow" as Paul wrote it in Romans 11 & 8.


GOD is Omniscient and knew before the foundation of the earth who would love and be faithful to Him unto the end.

 

[Kerry]

"For whom he did foreknow" is key .... next .... "he also did predestinate TO BE CONFORMED to the Image of His Son" .... not predestination for salvation --- the whom He did foreknow that would Love Him faithfully unto the end ---- those will have all things work together for the good which is that they are also predestined to be conformed to the Image of His Son, as He is the firstborn of all of these that He did Forknow would love Him unto the end, and have been predestinated to the Image of His Son and that is by all things wordking toward that good- and those are they whom He called, justified and glorified.


Those whom He foreknew would be faithful unto death will be osas. " 'Elect' according to the 'Foreknowledge' of God" as Peter wrote it. "Foreknew" and "Foreknow" as Paul wrote it in Romans 11 & 8.


GOD is Omniscient and knew before the foundation of the earth who would love and be faithful to Him unto the end.

They problem with that is what He foreknew about the drunk that lived under the bridge and he robbed people and even killed, but before He died a preacher came and preached the gospel and He accepted Christ. then died. Was he elect or just a dude?

 

[ChristIsGod]

God Foreknows everyone that will come to Him - even the thief on the cross.

That's what Omniscience is.

 

[ChristIsGod]

That's why He gave that parable that ends with "the first will be last and the last first".

He's GOOD that way!!

 

[Kerry]

That's why He gave that parable that ends with "the first will be last and the last first".

He's GOOD that way!!

So we don't have a choice?

 

[Kerry]

Most would say that parables were made up stories.

 

[passinthru]

Falling away from the faith is falling away from salvation, the interpretation is correct; but you can believe what you want. Have a nice evening.

In light of that statement could someone please explain 1 COR.5?
[TABLE="class: table_bible"]
[TR]
[TD="class: td_bible_verse_heading, width: 68, align: left"]1Co 5:1[/TD]
[TD]¶[/TD]
[TD="class: td_bible_text"]It is reported commonly that there is fornication among you, and such fornication as is not so much as named among the Gentiles, that one should have his father's wife. [/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: td_bible_6_buttons, width: 57, align: left"]

[/TD]
[TD="class: td_bible_verse_heading, width: 68, align: left"]

1Co 5:2[/TD]
[TD] [/TD]
[TD="class: td_bible_text"]And ye are puffed up, and have not rather mourned, that he that hath done this deed might be taken away from among you. [/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: td_bible_6_buttons, width: 57, align: left"]

[/TD]
[TD="class: td_bible_verse_heading, width: 68, align: left"]

1Co 5:3[/TD]
[TD] [/TD]
[TD="class: td_bible_text"]For I verily, as absent in body, but present in spirit, have judged already, as though I were present, concerning him that hath so done this deed, [/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: td_bible_6_buttons, width: 57, align: left"]

[/TD]
[TD="class: td_bible_verse_heading, width: 68, align: left"]

1Co 5:4[/TD]
[TD] [/TD]
[TD="class: td_bible_text"]In the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, when ye are gathered together, and my spirit, with the power of our Lord Jesus Christ, [/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: td_bible_6_buttons, width: 57, align: left"]

[/TD]
[TD="class: td_bible_verse_heading, width: 68, align: left"]

1Co 5:5[/TD]
[TD] [/TD]
[TD="class: td_bible_text"]To deliver such an one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus. [/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

 

[Mitspa]

So if were a sinner and I went down to local Baptist church and I said I accept Christ and got dunked in water, I could do whatever I wanted to do and it would not be sin, Hey sign me up , cause I'm going to the bank.

You must be born-again....and receive the nature of God....then sin wont be so appealing to you. But nobody can claim they are going to fool God by stealing His forgiveness apart from a sincere conversion.

 

[ISeeYou]

OSAS, where is your faith, works or water dunking which is works or the cross.

May I ask who is OSAS?

Only because I cannot tell who it is your adressing, I dont want to overlook your post if you are adressing me as that because I could easily be mistaken for such posting on the grace of God.

Jesus commandment was to be baptized, "he that believeth and is baptized" whereas the Jews who believed afterward's and were adding circumcision, but thats not what Jesus said though. If by dunking you mean what Philip did with the enuch.

 

[InSpiritInTruth]

God Foreknows everyone that will come to Him - even the thief on the cross.

That's what Omniscience is.

God does foreknow who will remain faithful to him, just as He also foreknows who will not. But here is the danger in the OSAS doctrine, men do not foreknow. And so by preaching this once your saved your always saved doctrine, and you cannot lose your salvation no matter what doctrine. This doctrine preaches a false sense of security, that a man can do as he pleases according to his own will (and not the Fathers will) and still be saved.

This false sense of security and every man do as he pleases is not what the words of God teach.

 

[Grandpa]

God does foreknow who will remain faithful to him, just as He also foreknows who will not. But here is the danger in the OSAS doctrine, men do not foreknow. And so by preaching this once your saved your always saved doctrine, and you cannot lose your salvation no matter what doctrine. This doctrine preaches a false sense of security, that a man can do as he pleases according to his own will (and not the Fathers will) and still be saved.

This false sense of security and every man do as he pleases is not what the words of God teach.

So you believe in OSAS you just don't want other people to believe it because they will do whatever they please...

There is no danger in faith. There is no danger in believing Gods Word.

Hebrews 13:5 Let your conversation be without covetousness; and be content with such things as ye have: for he hath said, I will never leave thee, nor forsake thee.

God has Said He will never leave us nor forsake us. Faith believes it. Those who are agaisnt God and against Faith say His word can't be trusted, He does leave us and He does forsake us. I don't believe them who talk against God. I wonder why anyone does.

Romans 8:28 And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose.

There's another lie in the bible if OSAS is false. All things can't work for the good for those that love God if He saves us and then later on forsakes us.

But what if we do this and what if we do that?

Ephesians 2:8-10
[SUP]8 [/SUP]For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
[SUP]9 [/SUP]Not of works, lest any man should boast.
[SUP]10 [/SUP]For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

How is it you can attempt to teach about the Greatest Gift ever given to humanity and not understand it in the slightest?


Romans 11:29 For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance.

Should we be fearful about our Salvation, lest we lose it? lol (Philippians 2:12)

Jeremiah 33:8-9

[SUP]8 [/SUP]And I will cleanse them from all their iniquity, whereby they have sinned against me; and I will pardon all their iniquities, whereby they have sinned, and whereby they have transgressed against me.
[SUP]9 [/SUP]And it shall be to me a name of joy, a praise and an honour before all the nations of the earth, which shall hear all the good that I do unto them: and they shall fear and tremble for all the goodness and for all the prosperity that I procure unto it.

 

[InSpiritInTruth]

Faith in the words of God is good, but faith in the doctrine of men is not.

 

[ISeeYou]

God does foreknow who will remain faithful to him, just as He also foreknows who will not. But here is the danger in the OSAS doctrine, men do not foreknow. And so by preaching this once your saved your always saved doctrine, and you cannot lose your salvation no matter what doctrine. This doctrine preaches a false sense of security, that a man can do as he pleases according to his own will (and not the Fathers will) and still be saved.

This false sense of security and every man do as he pleases is not what the words of God teach.

2 Peter 1:10 Wherefore the rather, brethren, give diligence to make your calling and election sure: for if ye do these things, ye shall never fall:

That fits in beautifully there.

The apostles did not promote this sort of apathy, indifference or luke warmness towards their salvation but Peter speaks of making this calling and election that is sure for themselves, and if you do these things is where you wouldnt fall

 

[InSpiritInTruth]

2 Peter 1:10 Wherefore the rather, brethren, give diligence to make your calling and election sure: for if ye do these things, ye shall never fall:

That fits in beautifully there.

The apostles did not promote this sort of apathy, indifference or luke warmness towards their salvation but Peter speaks of making this calling and election that is sure for themselves, and if you do these things is where you wouldnt fall

That's right, we are to sober minded, be diligent, be on guard, and watch!

 

[InSpiritInTruth]

In light of that statement could someone please explain 1 COR.5?
[TABLE="class: table_bible"]
[TR]
[TD="class: td_bible_verse_heading, align: left"]1Co 5:1[/TD]
[TD]¶[/TD]
[TD="class: td_bible_text"]It is reported commonly that there is fornication among you, and such fornication as is not so much as named among the Gentiles, that one should have his father's wife. [/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: td_bible_6_buttons, width: 57, align: left"][/TD]
[TD="class: td_bible_verse_heading, width: 68, align: left"]

1Co 5:2[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD="class: td_bible_text"]And ye are puffed up, and have not rather mourned, that he that hath done this deed might be taken away from among you. [/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: td_bible_6_buttons, width: 57, align: left"][/TD]
[TD="class: td_bible_verse_heading, width: 68, align: left"]

1Co 5:3[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD="class: td_bible_text"]For I verily, as absent in body, but present in spirit, have judged already, as though I were present, concerning him that hath so done this deed, [/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: td_bible_6_buttons, width: 57, align: left"][/TD]
[TD="class: td_bible_verse_heading, width: 68, align: left"]

1Co 5:4[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD="class: td_bible_text"]In the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, when ye are gathered together, and my spirit, with the power of our Lord Jesus Christ, [/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: td_bible_6_buttons, width: 57, align: left"][/TD]
[TD="class: td_bible_verse_heading, width: 68, align: left"]

1Co 5:5[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD="class: td_bible_text"]To deliver such an one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

Satan is the Destroyer of the flesh, he often afflicts the body of those who continue on in sin. But he can be used to humble a person, like Paul said he received a "messenger of Satan" in the flesh so that he would not think to highly of himself. So he can be sent to humble and chastise, as the Lord will also chastise those whom He loves in order that they might turn and be saved.

And I believe that is what is being shown in 1 Cor 5:5

 

[ChristIsGod]

"For whom he did foreknow" is key .... next .... "he also did predestinate TO BE CONFORMED to the Image of His Son" .... not predestination for salvation --- the whom He did foreknow that would Love Him faithfully unto the end ---- those will have all things work together for the good which is that they are also predestined to be conformed to the Image of His Son, as He is the firstborn of all of these that He did Forknow would love Him unto the end, and have been predestinated to the Image of His Son and that is by all things wordking toward that good- and those are they whom He called, justified and glorified.


Those whom He foreknew would be faithful unto death will be osas. " 'Elect' according to the 'Foreknowledge' of God" as Peter wrote it. "Foreknew" and "Foreknow" as Paul wrote it in Romans 11 & 8.


GOD is Omniscient and knew before the foundation of the earth who would love and be faithful to Him unto the end.

Wherever that word or it's root word is used "predestined" it's Always to or toward something that's received/or added to the believer once they are truly Saved. No where is that word or it's root used in order to say that God predestined some to eternal life and predestined others to eternal damnation. Easy for anyone to do a search on the use of that one word and to see that.

God does foreknow who will remain faithful to him, just as He also foreknows who will not. But here is the danger in the OSAS doctrine, men do not foreknow. And so by preaching this once your saved your always saved doctrine, and you cannot lose your salvation no matter what doctrine. This doctrine preaches a false sense of security, that a man can do as he pleases according to his own will (and not the Fathers will) and still be saved.

This false sense of security and every man do as he pleases is not what the words of God teach.

Yes, I lived in the belt-buckle of the bible belt and saw much of this. Very much. The 'we can do anything and God accepts us just as we are' and in the last 30 yrs, it's gone haywire.

Fornication is par. You name it is not disconcerting to those that have this 'false security' and even the conservative Reformed Theology denominations out there don't buy this "false sense of security" that you mention in this post above.
They say - "The person was never truly a believer" and I won't argue with them in the least - because regardless if they once believed or not - they "PRESENTLY" are not Saved.

 

[kennethcadwell]

You cannot have Gods grace and then turn away from Gods grace. Gods grace is not subject to mans will.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

Your understanding of what the blasphemy of the Holy Spirit consists of is incorrect according to what is written in the bible.

The Holy Spirit is not given on the basis of obedience. The Holy Spirit operates as the direct will of God. If obedience were the criteria then it would be the obedience of the Philippian jailer. Obey and believe God and Jesus Christ Whom He hath sent.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

First if you think one can not turn away from God's grace then you deny what Paul wrote in Galatians as he clearly told them they got bewitched by false teaching that turned them back away from God to being justified by the law, and then he tells them since they turned away from God they have fallen from grace. Once again I will go by what Paul said.

Second yes obedience is a requirement as it is all over the bible, especially the NT. And you have this scripture that I gave previously that I will give again;


Acts 5:32

And we are his witnesses of these things; and so is also the Holy Spirit, whom God hath given to them that obey him.

 

[ISeeYou]

I believe Grandpa mentions the gifts and callings being without repentence above.

Here is where it shows the same

Shows the rebellious also in that

Thou hast ascended on high, thou hast led captivity captive:thou hast received gifts for men;
yea, for the rebellious also, that the LORD God might dwell among them.

For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance.

For it says,

Good and upright is the LORD: therefore will he teach sinners in the way.

Whereas Paul says to them,

Or despisest thou the riches of his goodness and forbearance and longsuffering;

Not knowing that the goodness of God leadeth thee to repentance?

So His longsuffering (as is shown in the days of Noah) "leadeth thee" THERE

In the which Peter shows what?

They which were "sometime were disobedient" (and just how many souls were saved as he waited)

Which is why Peter says,

Account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you;

And this is US- WARD

The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

Not willing that any should what?

Perish?

That all should come where?

To repentance.

Its typically pitted concerning the repentance verses, its without so much, but to lead you there. He died for sinners but not to let you remain one, that sort of thing.

So we can see the gifts and callings of God are without repentence even as when he ascended on high he received gifts (to give the same) to men which is inclusive of the rebellious also. His being willing to teach sinners in the way. That we might grow up unto the perfect man, the full measure of the stature of Jesus Christ, to walk as He walked bearing fruit unto perfection by the Spirit of God which indwells us having our fruit unto holiness.