OSAS true or false?

InSpiritInTruth · Jan 8, 2015

Good one, and notice here the connection between those who do not bear good fruit and the workers of iniquity who say "Lord, Lord."

Matthew 7:19-23[SUP]19 [/SUP]Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.
[SUP]20 [/SUP]Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.
[SUP]21 [/SUP]Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
[SUP]22 [/SUP]Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
[SUP]23 [/SUP]And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

kennethcadwell · Jan 8, 2015

notuptome said:

Funny, all I did was give the meanings for the original Greek words and gave direct scripture from the bible.
And you call that Catholic heresy, sorry but it is not Catholic heresy as I left the church only after 5 years for their false teachings.
I gave you scripture, and the Greek words and how they are applied. If you have an issue with that, then you have an issue with God's word and not with me.

ISeeYou · Jan 8, 2015

InSpiritInTruth said:

Yes, good one! Man you are often good for an in on these things LOL

Mat 7:21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

Mat 7: 22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?

Mat 7: 23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

Mat 7:24 Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a rock:

Mat 7: 25 And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell not: for it was founded upon a rock.

Mat 7::26 And every one that heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them not, shall be likened unto a foolish man, which built his house upon the sand:

Mat 7:27 And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell: and great was the fall of it.

Okay, the context is

Mat 7:21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

Even though many will say to him,

Mat 7: 22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?

He professes he does not know them and to depart from him "ye that work iniquity"

Mat 7: 23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

Whereas here Paul says,

2 Ti 2:19 Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his. And, Let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart(((from iniquity)))

So he knoweth them here but they are told to depart from iniquity (who name his name)

And I would think its far better to depart from iniquity then to be asked to depart from him for working it as he says to these

Mat 7: 23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart (((from me))) ye that (((work iniquity))).

He gave himself to redeem us from all iniquity

Titus 2:14 Who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, and purify unto himself a peculiar people, zealous of good works.

And this is in the context of the grace of God and what this teaches us

Titus 2:11 For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men,

Titus 2:12 Teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world;

God sent Jesus to bless in this very manner

Acts 3:26 Unto you first God, having raised up his Son Jesus, sent him to bless you, in turning away every one of you from his iniquities.

Following the same theme in blessing you in turning every one of you from his iniquities is Paul saying,

Romans 6:10 ...as ye have yielded your members servants to uncleanness and to iniquity unto iniquity; even so now yield your members servants to righteousness unto holiness.

Turn away from the same, from yielding yourselves unto iniquity and begin yielding your members to righteousness

Knowing them and not knowing them are woven into all the "Lord Lord's" as well

God bless you bro

notuptome · Jan 8, 2015

kennethcadwell said:

Right you just filter how you say anything and how you select scripture through the lens of Romanism. You see this from the Arminian perspective and it colors your judgment. Plus you prefaced your scripture with your opinion.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

kennethcadwell · Jan 8, 2015

notuptome said:

No those who are blinded, are the ones who take and act like either these many scriptures do not exist, do not apply, or twist them to say something different.
All over the NT there are scriptures of those who fall away, do not continue in the faith, show that a mere belief only does not save, and Paul's warning to believers constantly of how sin can make you impure again.

Once again I would suggest you read 1st and 2nd Timothy again.
For Apostle Paul here warns Apostle Timothy of how he can become impure again do to sin, and only if he keeps himself pure will God continue to use him.

Mitspa · Jan 8, 2015

OSAS is not sound doctrine...because a believer that turns from grace back to the law...has "fallen" from grace and has been cut-off from Christ.......In the true grace of God the term OSAS can be defended....because its based on GRACE....that's what makes it SURE!

JDecree · Jan 8, 2015

The scriptures really support both "OSAS" and "Youcanloseyoursalvationism"

Let's be honest

seed_time_harvest · Jan 8, 2015

JDecree said:

I would agree that osas can be confusing

we are saved in the spirit and we can't lose our salvation but continued sin can begin to effect our minds and the bible does talk about becoming reprobate and according to those scriptures in Hebrews only a Christian can become reprobate.

JDecree · Jan 8, 2015

seed_time_harvest said:

So then how would you define reprobate? The text(s) where it is used sure doesn't sound good for those who are reprobates.

notuptome · Jan 8, 2015

kennethcadwell said:

Of how much sorer punishment do you think worthy those who tread under foot the blood of Christ?

Those who have been genuinely saved by grace would never pose such ridiculous ideas as the loss of salvation, turning back from grace to sin, or not loving the Lord Jesus.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

notuptome · Jan 8, 2015

Mitspa said:

There is a difference between salvation and sanctification. Salvation is a singular event from which there is no repentance. Sanctification is an ongoing process by which the believer grows in the knowledge of serving the Lord. There are many set backs along the way but the end is secure in Christ.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

kennethcadwell · Jan 8, 2015

notuptome said:

Sorry, but it is in the bible.
Read also Galatians as they were once walking properly in the faith, and then false teaching came in that drove them to going back to be justified by the mosaic laws. Paul tells them because of this they have fallen from God's saving grace, no salvation if they continue that way.

crossnote · Jan 8, 2015

An unbreakable link...

Romans 8:28-30
28 And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose.
29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.
30 Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.

crossnote · Jan 8, 2015

kennethcadwell said:

"saving" is a word you added, and Paul never said 'no salvation'.

notuptome · Jan 8, 2015

kennethcadwell said:

I know what the bible says. I also know that you are not reading out of the passages but into the passages. You are impressing on them what you want them to say to support your position.

Until and unless you come to a true understanding of the complete efficacy of the blood of Christ and eternal salvation God gives through grace you will continue to err in your teaching.

There is no power in heaven or earth that can undo salvation by grace through faith. Those who have it cannot conceive of anything that they would exchange for it.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

AbbeyJoy · Jan 8, 2015

It's what some churches believes, I remember one time we had a special speaker come to our church and during worship he ask if anyone who wants to commit and ask Jesus to come to there heart can come up. 13 year old girl came up along with everyone else ask and asked Jesus to come to her heart again since she said she had walked away. Later on her big sister kinda was arguing saying she was all ready saved. Their mom had to explain that it wasn't true about being once saved all ways saved. They before went to another church that believed that. The family didn't come to our church for that but yeah the mom had to explain to her oldest daughter that we all can walk away and come back again. So yeah

InSpiritInTruth · Jan 8, 2015

The Lord warned of this turning away,or falling away from the commandments of God early on in Deuteronomy 29:18-20[SUP]18 [/SUP]Lest there should be among you man, or woman, or family, or tribe, whose heart turneth away this day from the Lord our God, to go and serve the gods of these nations; lest there should be among you a root that beareth gall and wormwood;
[SUP]19 [/SUP]And it come to pass, when he heareth the words of this curse, that he bless himself in his heart, saying, I shall have peace, though I walk in the imagination of mine heart, to add drunkenness to thirst:

[SUP]20 [/SUP]The Lord will not spare him, but then the anger of the Lord and his jealousy shall smoke against that man, and all the curses that are written in this book shall lie upon him, and the Lord shall blot out his name from under heaven.

This blotting out of the name we also saw in the sign of the "son of perdition" and his children in Psalm 109:13 "Let his posterity be cut off; and in the generation following let their name be blotted out."

This turning away and falling away from the faith leads to one having their names blotted out of the book of Life.
But those who overcome the world and that wicked one by their faith shall not have their names blotted out as seen here in Revelation 3:5 "He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels."

kennethcadwell · Jan 8, 2015

crossnote said:

notuptome said:

No I am not reading to much into that passage.
A person can not be saved / have salvation if they do not have God's grace in their life. If you do not have God's grace you are still enmity to Him, separated by your unrepented and unconfessed sins. People don't like looking at though at try to count what God did as a common thing, which the bible warns about doing. If you count His grace and the blood sacrifice of our Lord as common things, then you disgrace what He did for us.
Which is what you do by saying Paul was not talking about salvation in Galatians, you are calling God's grace that they fell from as common and not the saving grace that it is.

notuptome · Jan 8, 2015

AbbeyJoy said:

If we follow that teaching then according to scripture we shame Christ by re-crucifying Him again. Hebrews touches on this specifically.

Now we can falter in our walk with Christ and that is sanctification not salvation. We can and many often are restored many times in our sanctification but we never lose our salvation. The man in 1 Corinthians 5 was living in open sin and Paul said to pray for the destruction of his flesh to protect the testimony of the church but Paul never indicated that this man would lose his salvation. Perfect opportunity to teach that doctrine if it were of God.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

notuptome · Jan 8, 2015

kennethcadwell said:

Come on man you are contradicting your self all over the place. You cannot be saved apart from grace. God gives grace in full measure to save the moment we ask Him to save us.

You romanist roots are showing all over your doctrine. I bet you have little boxes on the altar of your heart where you separate you sin into good sins, bad sins, and sins to confess and sins to not confess.

You do not understand grace, Gods grace as it presented in the bible.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

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