Can you be out of Fellowship with God and still be Saved?
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F
Romans 6 I have died with Christ and also have been risen with him. I believe that many do not realize the power of the resurrection nor what actually happens to you at the moment you are born again. My spirit had been made alive by faith in Jesus' death for me, that His blood atones for my sin. It is His resurrection that by faith My spirit had been made alive and is no longer dead. As a result, my being born again is solely dependent on His grace and His resurrection. Now unless Jesus can somehow be made dead again, my spirit will remain alive.
Fellowship is a different matter. This is not talking about the position and status of our spirit being born again, but rather our ability and confidence to walk in the Spirit daily.
Grace continues to abound. I think a more in depth study on the resurrection, grace and its results is needed.
Fellowship is a different matter. This is not talking about the position and status of our spirit being born again, but rather our ability and confidence to walk in the Spirit daily.
Grace continues to abound. I think a more in depth study on the resurrection, grace and its results is needed.
Any who are truly washed by the Lamb will naturally walk in fellowship with Him, if they dont this comes to mind IMO;
Hebrews 10:26-30, "For if we sin willfully after we have received the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins, But a certain fearful expectation of judgment, and fiery indignation which will devour the adversaries. Those who rejected the Law given through Mosheh died without mercy on the testimony of two or three witnesses. How much more severely do you think a man deserves to be punished, who has trampled the Son of Yahweh underfoot, and has counted the blood of the covenant (with which He was sanctified) an unholy thing, and who has insulted the Spirit of mercy? For we know Him Who has said: Vengeance is Mine; I will repay, says Yahweh. And again: Yahweh will judge His people."
Hebrews 10:26-30, "For if we sin willfully after we have received the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins, But a certain fearful expectation of judgment, and fiery indignation which will devour the adversaries. Those who rejected the Law given through Mosheh died without mercy on the testimony of two or three witnesses. How much more severely do you think a man deserves to be punished, who has trampled the Son of Yahweh underfoot, and has counted the blood of the covenant (with which He was sanctified) an unholy thing, and who has insulted the Spirit of mercy? For we know Him Who has said: Vengeance is Mine; I will repay, says Yahweh. And again: Yahweh will judge His people."
The "savior" that says your clean now do as you wish, is an impostor and actually the adversary....
Romans 2:4-12, “Or do you despise the riches of His kindness, forbearance, and longsuffering; not realizing that Yahweh’s kindness is meant to lead you to repentance? But according to your stubborn and impenitent mind you are storing up wrath for yourself for the day of Yahweh’s wrath, when the righteous judgment of Yahweh will be revealed; when He will reward each one according to his works: to the ones on the one hand, who, by patient persistence in doing righteousness, seek for glory, honor and immortality, He will give eternal life. But to the ones on the other hand, who are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, He will give indignation and wrath.” Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man who does evil: to the Yahdai(Jew) first, and also to the Greek (Gentile) But glory, honor, and peace to every man who works righteousness: to the Yahdai first, and also to the Greek. For there is no respect of persons with Yahweh.For all who have sinned without the law will also perish without the law, and all who have sinned under the law will be judged by the law.”
Romans 2:4-12, “Or do you despise the riches of His kindness, forbearance, and longsuffering; not realizing that Yahweh’s kindness is meant to lead you to repentance? But according to your stubborn and impenitent mind you are storing up wrath for yourself for the day of Yahweh’s wrath, when the righteous judgment of Yahweh will be revealed; when He will reward each one according to his works: to the ones on the one hand, who, by patient persistence in doing righteousness, seek for glory, honor and immortality, He will give eternal life. But to the ones on the other hand, who are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, He will give indignation and wrath.” Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man who does evil: to the Yahdai(Jew) first, and also to the Greek (Gentile) But glory, honor, and peace to every man who works righteousness: to the Yahdai first, and also to the Greek. For there is no respect of persons with Yahweh.For all who have sinned without the law will also perish without the law, and all who have sinned under the law will be judged by the law.”
S
I hard to know what you mean by out of fellowship. But from personal experience I have been out of fellowship or out of touch from God. I was saved when I was young and was involved with the church and even spoke at meetings about my experiences. I was an addict and then I was saved for that life. I believe it was all genuine but at that stage I was still young and not very strong. Gradually I let myself drift into a more worldly life. I began to doubt and question my faith. Though I never went back to my previous lifestyle completely I did dabble a bit and eventually I could see that this wasn't the answer. By that time I had traveled the world, had a couple of business, made a lot of money and then lost some as well. My marriage broke up and I ended up depressed and almost having a breakdown.
But then I started to question God. I was into evolution and I had all the questions and challenges that an atheists has about the evidence and logic of believing in a mystical God that didn't make sense in this material world. But that was the beginning of me turning back to God. Because by asking these questions was really saying Ok God where are you if this is all true about you. Eventually it got to a point where my faith was restored as it came down to even though some things dont make sense in what I see there was still something that was calling me which was God.
When I look back I realized that I never really became unsaved but I had just lost my way and God was there all the time. Just like the foot prints on the beach, once there were two sets and then there were one. I thought that one set were mine but it was Jesus carrying me all the time. So I relate this to the parable of the Prodigal Son (https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Luke+15:11-32). If you think about it the son was already saved. He wasn't an unsaved person who went out into the world and then came home and was saved. He was already with his father and enjoying the things of his place at home. Just like a Christian already being saved and enjoying his place in salvation with God the Father. He then went out into the world because he got complacent and wanted to experience the pleasures of the world. He ended up in a grovel and realized what he had done and how he had fallen away from what he once had.
I was the same. I wasnt strong enough once saved and the things of this world lured my back for a while. But it made me a stronger person and I can now realize the value of being saved and how the things of this world are only temporary. So once we are saved we can fall away and lose fellowship but God is still there and He will use that experience to craft you into a better person. Just because we are saved doesn't mean it is all plain sailing. In looking back I can see now that I always had God in the back of my mind. The flame hadn't gone out completely and it now burns brightly again but even more so.
But then I started to question God. I was into evolution and I had all the questions and challenges that an atheists has about the evidence and logic of believing in a mystical God that didn't make sense in this material world. But that was the beginning of me turning back to God. Because by asking these questions was really saying Ok God where are you if this is all true about you. Eventually it got to a point where my faith was restored as it came down to even though some things dont make sense in what I see there was still something that was calling me which was God.
When I look back I realized that I never really became unsaved but I had just lost my way and God was there all the time. Just like the foot prints on the beach, once there were two sets and then there were one. I thought that one set were mine but it was Jesus carrying me all the time. So I relate this to the parable of the Prodigal Son (https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Luke+15:11-32). If you think about it the son was already saved. He wasn't an unsaved person who went out into the world and then came home and was saved. He was already with his father and enjoying the things of his place at home. Just like a Christian already being saved and enjoying his place in salvation with God the Father. He then went out into the world because he got complacent and wanted to experience the pleasures of the world. He ended up in a grovel and realized what he had done and how he had fallen away from what he once had.
I was the same. I wasnt strong enough once saved and the things of this world lured my back for a while. But it made me a stronger person and I can now realize the value of being saved and how the things of this world are only temporary. So once we are saved we can fall away and lose fellowship but God is still there and He will use that experience to craft you into a better person. Just because we are saved doesn't mean it is all plain sailing. In looking back I can see now that I always had God in the back of my mind. The flame hadn't gone out completely and it now burns brightly again but even more so.
I voted other, for instance when I was 15 I was called out from following God... I was sinning and believed there was no God...
But today I am trying to follow him and seek His face with all the fear and love in my body...
I think it relies on whether you believe if you were set apart from birth like Jeremiah 1:4-5, or if you believe that you were only saved after point X...
But today I am trying to follow him and seek His face with all the fear and love in my body...
I think it relies on whether you believe if you were set apart from birth like Jeremiah 1:4-5, or if you believe that you were only saved after point X...
If not in fellowship (a friendly association) with God can one still be saved?......
Yes, it has happened many times. God saved our ancestors several times after they had turned with a stiff neck and hard heart from Him, even to the point of utterly rejecting Him and murdering Him. He also saved every heathen and Gentile nation that did not believe in Him,many former atheists,murderers,fornicators, adulterers, and many other rebellious sinners Hebrew or Gentile. The Messiah came to save those that were lost of Israel and to all men who would believe in Him, the only begotten Son of the Father, Jesus Christ who shed His precious blood for all.
Isaiah 48:11
For mine own sake, even for mine own sake, will I do it: for how should my name be polluted ? and I will not give my glory unto another.
Isaiah 53:6
All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and the LORD hath laid on him the iniquity of us all.
Should a man not repent and turn from his sins because of this?......NO, never!
All men are called to repentance to receive remission of sins in His name.
Luke 24:47
And that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem.
Hebrews 7:25
Wherefore he is able also to save them to the uttermost that come unto God by him, seeing he ever liveth to make intercession for them.
Yes, it has happened many times. God saved our ancestors several times after they had turned with a stiff neck and hard heart from Him, even to the point of utterly rejecting Him and murdering Him. He also saved every heathen and Gentile nation that did not believe in Him,many former atheists,murderers,fornicators, adulterers, and many other rebellious sinners Hebrew or Gentile. The Messiah came to save those that were lost of Israel and to all men who would believe in Him, the only begotten Son of the Father, Jesus Christ who shed His precious blood for all.
Isaiah 48:11
For mine own sake, even for mine own sake, will I do it: for how should my name be polluted ? and I will not give my glory unto another.
Isaiah 53:6
All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and the LORD hath laid on him the iniquity of us all.
Should a man not repent and turn from his sins because of this?......NO, never!
All men are called to repentance to receive remission of sins in His name.
Luke 24:47
And that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem.
Hebrews 7:25
Wherefore he is able also to save them to the uttermost that come unto God by him, seeing he ever liveth to make intercession for them.
Heb 3:16-19, "For some, when they had heard, rebelled. But not all rebelled who came out of Egypt through Mosheh. But with whom was He angry forty years? Was it not with those who sinned, whose corpses fell in the wilderness? And to whom did He vow that they would not enter into His rest, but to those who did not obey? So we see that they could not enter in because of unbelief."
Heb 4:2, "For this message was preached to us, as well as to them; but the word which they heard did not benefit them, because they did not share in the faith of those who obeyed. "
Proverbs 1:29-31, "Because they hated knowledge, and did not choose to give reverence to Yahweh! Since they would have none of my counsel, and despised all my rebuke and warning. They will eat the fruit of their own ways, and be completely idled with their own devices."
Yeremyah 2:8, "The priests did not ask; Where is Yahweh? Those who deal with the Law did not know Me! The pastors also transgressed against Me, and the prophets prophesied in the name of Baal, and walked after things of worthlessness"
Hosheyah 4:6, "My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge. Because you have rejected knowledge, I will also reject you, that you will be no priest to Me. Because you have forgotten the Law of Yahweh, I will also forget your children."
John 12:48, "He who rejects Me, and does not follow My words has One Who judges him. The word that I have spoken, the same will be used to judge him in the last day."
Heb 4:2, "For this message was preached to us, as well as to them; but the word which they heard did not benefit them, because they did not share in the faith of those who obeyed. "
Proverbs 1:29-31, "Because they hated knowledge, and did not choose to give reverence to Yahweh! Since they would have none of my counsel, and despised all my rebuke and warning. They will eat the fruit of their own ways, and be completely idled with their own devices."
Yeremyah 2:8, "The priests did not ask; Where is Yahweh? Those who deal with the Law did not know Me! The pastors also transgressed against Me, and the prophets prophesied in the name of Baal, and walked after things of worthlessness"
Hosheyah 4:6, "My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge. Because you have rejected knowledge, I will also reject you, that you will be no priest to Me. Because you have forgotten the Law of Yahweh, I will also forget your children."
John 12:48, "He who rejects Me, and does not follow My words has One Who judges him. The word that I have spoken, the same will be used to judge him in the last day."
1 John 1:9 thru the first couple verses of chapter 2. All men sin after they are saved. They fall out of fellowship with God when they sin. They are still saved and they have the Holy Spirit to bring them back into fellowship with God. The unsaved person sins and experiences no conviction about his sin so he is not inclined to confess it and repent before his Lord.
John says that if we say we have no sin we lie.
What say we give God the glory for the great plan of salvation He drew up ever before there was a man to fall in the garden. Gods grace is greater than all our sin. The blood of Christ is sufficient to forgive all our sin. Christ ministers our salvation eternally as Christ is our ever living Intercessor before the Father in heaven.
Salvation is in Gods hands and not ours. If we as disobedient children strive against our Father we will be chastised. The man in 1 Corinthians 5 is an example for our admonition.
We do not receive a gospel of fear but a gospel of peace. Peace with God because our sins are remembered no more removed from us as far as the east is from the west.
I don't know why anyone would want the gospel most of you seem to espouse. I mean really do your best and maybe you will make it if you don't err at the last moment?
For the cause of Christ
Roger
John says that if we say we have no sin we lie.
What say we give God the glory for the great plan of salvation He drew up ever before there was a man to fall in the garden. Gods grace is greater than all our sin. The blood of Christ is sufficient to forgive all our sin. Christ ministers our salvation eternally as Christ is our ever living Intercessor before the Father in heaven.
Salvation is in Gods hands and not ours. If we as disobedient children strive against our Father we will be chastised. The man in 1 Corinthians 5 is an example for our admonition.
We do not receive a gospel of fear but a gospel of peace. Peace with God because our sins are remembered no more removed from us as far as the east is from the west.
I don't know why anyone would want the gospel most of you seem to espouse. I mean really do your best and maybe you will make it if you don't err at the last moment?
For the cause of Christ
Roger
B
How long did Abraham not speak or have intimate fellowship with God? What about Solomon before he wrote Proverbs? Did the disciples break fellowship with Christ when they forsook him at the cross and fled? Did the 70 disciples who went back and followed him no more break their fellowship with Christ? I suppose none of them believed He was the Christ. What about Titus who left Paul and some other disciples that distanced themselves from the doctrine that Paul taught like John Mark? Are you going to tell us that if any of them returned then they will be saved but if not then they would lose their salvation? David asked God to restore unto him the JOY of his salvation and not THE salvation he had already. David never doubted his salvation no matter how much sin was before him of his own life.
P
I have had a few 'belly of the whale expereinces' after coming to Christ. Anyone else been there? Cool thing is even though I mayhave strayed He never left me nor forsook me. When our kids do wring do we kick them out? How much more love does God ,who is love, love us than we may even love our own kids? Love is patient and love is kind.... Yes love chastens too and foir our own good. He who has an ear et him hear,,,, God loves us in spite of our sin and on top of that the word say she who say she has no sin in deceived. These facts are not something to play with to condone sin.God forbid. If we are attemptingto use God's love and grace as an 'out' to walk in sin then we are condoning sin and quenching the ministry of the Holy Spirit in our lives. This can be dangerous ground in this lifetime and even though we may still spend eternioty with our savior we will surely not be pleasing to Him and we have blocked many blessing that we could have otherwaise known in this ifetime both for ourselves and others.
Yeah belly of the whale experiences, I know those... I always wondered if Yahnah (Jonah) was really sleeping or just laying there mumblin and grumblin.... I know ive done the mumblin and grumlin before, Yah willing never again!
Hebrews 12:3-11, "For consider Him Who endured such opposition against Himself from sinners, so that you would not become weary, and faint in your minds. You yourselves have not yet resisted to bloodshed, striving against sin. And you have forgotten the exhortation which speaks to you as unto sons: My son, do not despise the chastening of Yahweh, nor be discouraged when you are rebuked by Him; For whom Yahweh loves, He chastens, and scourges every son whom He receives. If you endure chastening, Yahweh deals with you as with sons; for what son is there whom a father does not chasten? But if you are without chastening, of which all are partakers, then you are bastards and not sons. Furthermore, we have had fleshly fathers who corrected us, and we gave them reverence; should we not even more be subject to Father Yahweh, and live? For they truly chastened us for a few days as they thought best; but He, for our profit, that we might be partakers of His holiness. Now no chastening seems to be joyful at the present time, but grievous; nevertheless, afterward it produces the peaceable fruit of righteousness, that is, for those who have been trained by it"
Hebrews 12:3-11, "For consider Him Who endured such opposition against Himself from sinners, so that you would not become weary, and faint in your minds. You yourselves have not yet resisted to bloodshed, striving against sin. And you have forgotten the exhortation which speaks to you as unto sons: My son, do not despise the chastening of Yahweh, nor be discouraged when you are rebuked by Him; For whom Yahweh loves, He chastens, and scourges every son whom He receives. If you endure chastening, Yahweh deals with you as with sons; for what son is there whom a father does not chasten? But if you are without chastening, of which all are partakers, then you are bastards and not sons. Furthermore, we have had fleshly fathers who corrected us, and we gave them reverence; should we not even more be subject to Father Yahweh, and live? For they truly chastened us for a few days as they thought best; but He, for our profit, that we might be partakers of His holiness. Now no chastening seems to be joyful at the present time, but grievous; nevertheless, afterward it produces the peaceable fruit of righteousness, that is, for those who have been trained by it"
Now that you brought it up I do see a difference in the understanding of the question...I understand it to mean if one can be in a saved state while being out of fellowship...you are answering to... if one can be returned to a saved state after being out of fellowship...I think Jason can clear this up...