THE GREAT DEBATE...LAW AND GRACE

[Hizikyah]

Sure the law is still effect for those under the law....all who are not in Christ....


Ro 10:3 For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God.
4 For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth.


Ro 7:6 But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter.
7 ¶ What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet.

Romans 10:4, "For Christ is the end (telos) of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth."

Romans 10:4, "For Yahshua is the ultimate result (telos) of the Law unto righteousness for everyone who believes."

1Peter 1:9, "Receiving the end (telos) of your faith, even the salvation of your souls."

1 Kepha (Peter) 1:9, "Receiving the ultimate result (telos) of your faith--the salvation of your souls."

If the its the end of the Law aka Law is done away in Romans 10:4 then faith must also be done away in 1 Kepha (Peter) 1:9. Unless of course telos means the goal.

Greek Dictionary (Lexicon-Concordance) - #5056 telos {tel'-os} from a primary tello (to set out for a definite point or goal)

HELPS Word-studies - 5056 télos (a neuter noun) – properly, consummation (the end-goal, purpose), such as closure with all its results.

James 5:11, "Behold, we call them blessed that endured: ye have heard of the patience of Job, and have seen the end (telos) of the Lord, how that the Lord is full of pity, and merciful."

Yaaqob (James) 5:11, "Behold, we regard as blessed those who endure. You have heard of the patience of Iyyob, and have seen the ultimate result (telos) of Yahweh: that Yahweh is very compassionate and merciful."

Greek Dictionary (Lexicon-Concordance) - #5056 telos {tel'-os} from a primary tello (to set out for a definite point or goal)

 

[Mitspa]

Jesus (God in the flesh) said "do not think I will accuse you; there is one who accuses you, Moses in whom you trust!

 

[Hizikyah]

Jesus (God in the flesh) said "do not think I will accuse you; there is one who accuses you, Moses in whom you trust!

Luke 16:31, "He said to him, If they do not listen to Moses and the Prophets, they will not be convinced even if someone rises from the dead."

John 7:16-17 "Yahshua answered, them, and said: My doctrine is not Mine, but His Who sent Me. If any man will do His will, he will know about this teaching--whether it comes from Yahweh, or whether I am speaking of My own authority."

John 12:48, "He who rejects Me, and does not follow My words has One Who judges him. The word that I have spoken, the same will be used to judge him in the last day."

Mattithyah 22:36-40, "Teacher, what is the greatest commandment in the Law? Yahshua said to him: You must love Yahweh your Father with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your might. This is the first and greatest commandment. And the second is like it: You shall love your neighbor as yourself. On these two commandments hang all the Law and the Prophets."

 

[john832]

Jesus (God in the flesh) said "do not think I will accuse you; there is one who accuses you, Moses in whom you trust!

Well alrighty then, if you think that the Law is done away, then there is nothing to accuse anyone with. These Kuachi brothers have no one to accuse them. No sin involved there.

Either the Law is in effect or is not. If not, there is no sin...

Rom 4:15 because the law brings about wrath; for where there is no law there is no transgression.

 

[Mitspa]

Just read and believe the truth for the truth shall make you free .....become a fool and God will make you wise..

Ro 7:6 But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter.
7 ¶ What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet.
8 But sin, taking occasion by the commandment, wrought in me all manner of concupiscence. For without the law sin was dead.
9 For I was alive without the law once: but when the commandment came, sin revived, and I died.

Those under law have all manner of evil desires stirred up in them through the law...they cannot understand the divine nature of God that works in those who are justified by faith. They always try to turn the grace of God into some license to sin Not understanding anything but the lust of there own flesh.

 

[Hizikyah]

Those under have all manner of evil desires stirred up in them through the law...they cannot understand the divine nature of God that works in those who are justified by faith. They always try to turn the grace of God into some license to sin Not understanding anything but the lust of there own flesh.

That statement is in direct opposition to Romans 8

Romans 8:5-8, "For those who live according to the flesh, set their minds on the things of the flesh; but those who live according to the Spirit, set their minds on the things of the Spirit. For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace. Because the carnal mind is enmity against; (bitterly opposed to), Yahweh; for it his not subject to the Law of Yahweh, nor indeed can be. So then, those who are of the flesh cannot please Yahweh."

and "new covenant" truth:

Yeremyah 31:33, "For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israyl: After those days, says Yahweh: I will put My Law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts, and I will be their Strength, and they will be My people."

"Law" is word #H8451 - torah - torah: direction, instruction, law Original Word: תּוֹרָה Part of Speech: Noun Feminine Transliteration: torah

Hebrews 10:16, "This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, says Yahweh: I will put My Law into their hearts, and in their minds I will write them."

the word Law is: 3551. nomos
nomos: that which is assigned, hence usage, law
Original Word: νόμος, ου, ὁ
Part of Speech: Noun, Masculine
Transliteration: nomos
Phonetic Spelling: (nom'-os)
Short Definition: a law, the Mosaic Law
Definition: usage, custom, law; in NT: of law in general, plur: of divine laws; of a force or influence impelling to action; of the Mosaic law; meton: of the books which contain the law, the Pentateuch, the Old Testament scriptures in general.

Ohh and dont attack me for the definition its from Strongs.

 

[Hizikyah]

1 Corinthians 1:17, "For Christ sent me not to baptize, but to preach the gospel: not in wisdom of words, lest the cross of Christ should be made void."

Matthew 28:19, "Go ye therefore, and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them into the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit."

 

[john832]

Those under law have all manner of evil desires stirred up in them through the law...they cannot understand the divine nature of God that works in those who are justified by faith. They always try to turn the grace of God into some license to sin Not understanding anything but the lust of there own flesh.

MBFM.

Jas 5:17 Elias was a man subject to like passions as we are, and he prayed earnestly that it might not rain: and it rained not on the earth by the space of three years and six months.
Jas 5:18 And he prayed again, and the heaven gave rain, and the earth brought forth her fruit.

You more spiritual than Elijah? Or Paul...

Rom 7:14 For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin.
Rom 7:15 For that which I do I allow not: for what I would, that do I not; but what I hate, that do I.
Rom 7:16 If then I do that which I would not, I consent unto the law that it is good.
Rom 7:17 Now then it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.
Rom 7:18 For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not.
Rom 7:19 For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do.
Rom 7:20 Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.
Rom 7:21 I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me.
Rom 7:22 For I delight in the law of God after the inward man:
Rom 7:23 But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.
Rom 7:24 O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?
Rom 7:25 I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.

 

[Mitspa]

Yea you guys have not because you ask not....you believe sin is greater in a believers flesh than the Spirit of God that works in the believer... Faith knows the power of God is greater than the flesh and like Abraham considers not the weakness of his own body.... the reason the reason the gospel has no power for many is because many Dont really believe its truth. and the law is not of faith.... get out of the law and into faith and you will see the fruits if righteousness working in your walk of faith.

 

[Hizikyah]

1 Corinthians 9:14, "In the same way, the Lord has commanded that those who preach the gospel should receive their living from the gospel."

Matthew 10:8, "Heal the sick, raise the dead, cleanse those who have leprosy, drive out demons. Freely you have received; freely give."

 

[Mitspa]

Those under law cannot understand how those of us under grace gave been set free from sins power... while they can only understand the desire to sin...they cannot understand our desire to do good.. they are slaves of sin we. Are slaves of righteousness.

 

[Hizikyah]

Matt 24:12, "And because iniquity will abound, the love of the many will grow cold."

"iniquity" is:#0458 anomia {an-om-ee'-ah} from G0459

Greek Word Study (Transliteration-Pronunciation Etymology & Grammar)
1) the condition of without law
1a) because ignorant of it
1b) because of violating it
2) contempt and violation of law, iniquity, wickedness

Yeremyah 31:33, "For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israyl: After those days, says Yahweh: I will put My Law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts, and I will be their Strength, and they will be My people."

"Law" is word #H8451 - torah - torah: direction, instruction, law Original Word: תּוֹרָה Part of Speech: Noun Feminine Transliteration: torah

 

[Hizikyah]

Ephesians 4:11, "And He gave some as apostles, and some as prophets, and some as evangelists, and some as pastors (4166. poimén) and teachers,"

John 10:16, "And I have other sheep that are not of this fold. I must bring them also, and they will listen to my voice. So there will be one flock, one shepherd (4166. poimén)."

 

[john832]

Those under law cannot understand how those of us under grace gave been set free from sins power... while they can only understand the desire to sin...they cannot understand our desire to do good.. they are slaves of sin we. Are slaves of righteousness.

Paul didn't understand it either...

Rom 7:24 O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?
Rom 7:25 I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.

Neither did John...

1Jn 1:8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
1Jn 1:9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
1Jn 1:10 If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.

So, if you think that you don't sin and need forgiveness daily, you, my friend, have a credibility problem.

 

[newbirth]

Those under law have all manner of evil desires stirred up in them through the law...they cannot understand the divine nature of God that works in those who are justified by faith. They always try to turn the grace of God into some license to sin Not understanding anything but the lust of there own flesh.

you are blaming the law for man's evil desires....man is drawn away by his own lust ...the law just tells you that you sinned..

 

[newbirth]

Those under law cannot understand how those of us under grace gave been set free from sins power... while they can only understand the desire to sin...they cannot understand our desire to do good.. they are slaves of sin we. Are slaves of righteousness.

you by your words are saying men are under the law....because they believe the law is not destroyed....if the law is destroyed what law do you put them under???

 

[newbirth]

Sure the law is still effect for those under the law....all who are not in Christ....


Ro 10:3 For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God.
4 For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth.


Ro 7:6 But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter.
7 ¶ What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet.

see what qualifies you to be delivered from the law...death ...that is death to lust and desires of the flesh....any man in Christ who is drawn away by his own lust to serve the flesh is no longer in Christ ...he has been drawn away...and will be condemn by the law... one man cannot serve two masters....

 

[Mitspa]

you are blaming the law for man's evil desires....man is drawn away by his own lust ...the law just tells you that you sinned..

Read and believe the bible....the strength of sin is the law.....no wonder those under the law can't understand what it means to be a slave to righteousness....for they thmeslves are slaves to sin.

 

[Hizikyah]

Romans 14:9, "For to this end Christ died and lived again, that he might be Lord both of the dead and of the living."

Luke 20:38, "Now he is not God of the dead, but of the living, for all live to him.”

 

[john832]

Read and believe the bible....the strength of sin is the law.....no wonder those under the law can't understand what it means to be a slave to righteousness....for they thmeslves are slaves to sin.

Lemme see, read and believe the Bible...

Mat 19:17 And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.

Rev 14:12 Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.

Rev 22:14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.

OK, I'll just do that. I'll read and believe the Bible.