Done Away?

[Hizikyah]

John (Yahchanan) 14:6, "Yahshua proclaimed to him: I am the way, the truth, and the life; no man comes to the Father, except through Me."

John 12:48, "He who rejects Me, and does not follow My words has One Who judges him. The word that I have spoken, the same will be used to judge him in the last day."

Revelation 22:12-15, "And behold, I come quickly, and My reward is with Me, to give every man according as his work will be. I am the First and the Last, the Beginning and the End. Blessed are those who keep His Laws, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city. For outside are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and worshipers of gods and everyone who professes to love, yet practices falsehood."

 

[Hizikyah]

Again, you're defining the law as the Sinaitic code.

Jesus doesn't do that.

God doesn't do that after the Cross.

Believe on the One God has sent and love one another.

You say the demons do that.

Really?

Demons put their faith and trust in the Work of Christ, receive His forgiveness, gift of righteousness, and New Life? Demons love those around them?

Really? Do you really believe that what the Scriptures are referring to there is the same thing?

-JGIG

That is not what I said. your too much. they believe He exists. nothing more.

 

[Brother_Don]

1, 3 has not passed, and 4, if so.

 

[Hizikyah]

JGIG, So I have answered a number of your question, would you do the same for me? there is 3;

"Unless heaven and earth passes away, one yodh--the smallest of the letters--will in no way pass from the Law"

1 Has this prophecy already been fulfilled?

Malakyah 4:1-4,"For, behold, the day comes that will burn like an oven; and all the proud, yes, and all who do wickedly, will be stubble--the day that comes will burn them up, says Yahweh of hosts; and it will leave them neither root nor branch. But for you who reverence My Name, the light of righteousness will arise with healing in its wings; and you will go out, leaping like calves released from the stall. And you will tread down the wicked; for they will be ashes under the soles of your feet in the day that I will do this, says Yahweh of hosts. Remember the Law of Mosheh My servant, which I commanded through him in Horeb for all Israyl, with the statutes and judgments."

2 how about this one is this past?

Isayah 24:1-6, "Behold, Yahweh makes the earth empty and makes it waste, perverts the face of it and scatters abroad its inhabitants; And it will be: as with the people, so with the priest; as with the servant, so with his owner; as with the maid, so with her mistress; as with the buyer, so with the seller; as with the lender, so with the borrower; as with him who takes usury, so with him who gives usury to him: The land will be utterly emptied and utterly plundered, for Yahweh has spoken this word. The earth mourns and fades away, the world mourns and fades away, and the haughty people of the earth languish. The earth also is defiled under the inhabitants of it, because they have transgressed the Laws, changed the ordinance, and broken the everlasting covenant. Because of this, the curse has devoured the earth, and they who dwell therein are desolate; therefore, the inhabitants of the earth are burned, and few men left."

3 and how about this one?

Revelation 21:1-2, "And I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away, and there was no more sea. And I, Yahchanan, saw the holy city, Yahweh Shammah, coming down from Yahweh out of heaven, prepared as brides adorned for their husbands. And I heard a great voice out of heaven, saying: Behold, the tabernacle of Yahweh is with men, and He will dwell with them, and they will be His people, and Yahweh Himself will be with them, and be their Father.


Matt 5:17-18, "Do not even think that I have come to destroy the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to destroy them, but to fulfill them. For truly I say to you; Unless heaven and earth passes away, one yodh--the smallest of the letters--will in no way pass from the Law, until all things are perfected."

 

[Hizikyah]

1, 3 has not passed, and 4, if so.

Thank you for the vote/reply, I really wanted to see what people believed concerning if those things had happened or not, and the effects stemming from that.

 

[newbirth]

Again, what makes a man steal or cover today, seeing as whatever or is that is stolen or coveted is in abundant supply? And God never wrote "traffic laws". We drive on the right side of the street or stop when the light is red because those are good common sense rules of driving to minimize accidents. But to believe that one needs a license to do what was already lawful to do is not needed.

if a man is in Christ and he does those things it is because he is drawn away by his own lust....I never said or impliedGod wrote traffic laws...you drive on the right side of the road and stop at red lights because the traffic laws require you to do so....one does not need a license to do what is lawful...but one is required to do what is lawful so one would not be condemned for doing what is unlawful

 

[SeaBass]

Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to them that believe....not to everyone...for those who believe he takes away the first to establish the second...unbelievers are not under the law of Christ....unbelievers are condemn under the OT law....God concluded all under sin...

why can they not...co-exist Paul thinks they can...
Romans 7:25King James Version (KJV)
[SUP]25 [/SUP]I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.




Romans 8:4King James Version (KJV)
[SUP]4 [/SUP]That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

Rom 10:4 Christ is the end of the Law means Christ was the goal, purpose for the Jews to come to Christ to be saved through Christ NOT by keeping the OT law.

Rom 7:1-6 Paul says if a woman is married and then marries another man she is an adulteress being married to two men at the same time, but if her husband be dead she is freed from the law to be married to another man.


Paul compares this to a Christian that is married to Christ and His NT gospel. If the CHristian tries to keep both the law of Moses and Christ NT at the same time, it is sinful just like a woman married to two men at the same time. One commits spiritual adultery against Christ.

" ye also are become dead to the law by the body of Christ" because of Christ's death and HIm taking the OT out of the way, we are then freed from the OT law to be married to Christ and His NT law.

 

[SeaBass]

what law is the unbeliever under??? is he under the NT law of Christ???.....if Christ removed the law...how can we sin...

Romans 4:15King James Version (KJV)
[SUP]15 [/SUP]Because the law worketh wrath: for where no law is, there is no transgression.

if the law was done away with ...why do we need to abide in Christ....seeing there is no law to condemn us and why are men called sinners...seeing there is no law to identify sin...

1 Cor 9:21 "To them that are without law, as without law, (being not without law to God, but under the law to Christ,) that I might gain them that are without law."

Paul was under law to Christ, Christ;s NT law.


------------------------------------------------


The OT law could not justify one, but under the NT one can be justified in Christ. So why keep an OT law that cannot justify but only bring God's wrath?

 

[Hizikyah]

Rom 10:4 Christ is the end of the Law means Christ was the goal, purpose for the Jews to come to Christ to be saved through Christ NOT by keeping the OT law.

Rom 7:1-6 Paul says if a woman is married and then marries another man she is an adulteress being married to two men at the same time, but if her husband be dead she is freed from the law to be married to another man.


Paul compares this to a Christian that is married to Christ and His NT gospel. If one tries to keep both the law of Moses and Christ NT at the same time, it is sinful just like a woman married to two men at the same time. One commits spiritual adultery against Christ.

" ye also are become dead to the law by the body of Christ" because of Christ's death and HIm taking the OT out of the way, we are then freed from the OT law to be married to Christ and His NT law.

Paul was taking about being dead to sin, once we are married to the Messiah we can no longer be married to sin, and that dosent mean we sin and say we dont it means sinning while following Messiah is cheating.

Romans 7:25, "Thanks be to Yahweh, I have deliverance through Yahshua Messiah our King! So then, with this same mind, I myself serve the Law of Yahweh, while in the flesh that is yet subject to the law of sin."

Romans 7:25, "Thanks be to God through Jesus Christ our Lord! So then, on the one hand I myself with my mind am serving the law of God, but on the other, with my flesh the law of sin."

 

[Hizikyah]

1 Cor 9:21 "To them that are without law, as without law, (being not without law to God, but under the law to Christ,) that I might gain them that are without law."

Paul was under law to Christ, Christ;s NT law.


------------------------------------------------


The OT law could not justify one, but under the NT one can be justified in Christ. So why keep an OT law that cannot justify but only bring God's wrath?

Romans 13:9-10, "For the commandments: You shall not commit adultery, You shall not murder, You shall not steal, You shall not bring false testimony, You shall not covet, and all other commandments are summed up in these Laws; namely: You must love your neighbor as yourself. Love does no wrong to a neighbor; therefore love is the fulfilling of the law."

Same Law:

"Unless heaven and earth passes away, one yodh--the smallest of the letters--will in no way pass from the Law, "

Psalm 89:26-37, "He will call out to Me; You are my Father, O Yahweh! You are the Rock of my salvation! And I will make Him My firstborn, higher than the kings of the earth. My mercy I will keep for Him forever and My covenant will stand fast with Him. And I will establish his Seed forever, and his throne will be as the days of heaven. Should his children forsake My Law, and refuse to walk in My judgments; Should they profane My statutes, and fail to keep My commandments; Then I will punish their transgression with the rod, and their iniquity with lashes from the whip. Nevertheless, My lovingkindness I will not utterly withdraw from him, nor will I ever betray My faithfulness. My covenant I will not break, nor will I change what that has gone out of My lips. Once for all, I have vowed by My holiness--I cannot lie, and I say to David: His Seed will endure forever, and his throne will endure before Me like the sun. His throne will be established forever like the moon: the faithful witness in the sky."

 

[SeaBass]

Paul was taking about being dead to sin, once we are married to the Messiah we can no longer be married to sin, and that dosent mean we sin and say we dont it means sinning while following Messiah is cheating.

Romans 7:25, "Thanks be to Yahweh, I have deliverance through Yahshua Messiah our King! So then, with this same mind, I myself serve the Law of Yahweh, while in the flesh that is yet subject to the law of sin."

Romans 7:25, "Thanks be to God through Jesus Christ our Lord! So then, on the one hand I myself with my mind am serving the law of God, but on the other, with my flesh the law of sin."

No, Paul said being married to Christ one cannot also be married to the OT law too.

Rom 7:4 "Wherefore, my brethren, ye also are become dead to the law (law of Moses) by the body of Christ; that ye should be married to another (Christ and HIs NT gospel) ,even to him who is raised from the dead, that we should bring forth fruit unto God."

Not dead to sin but Paul said dead to the law.

 

[SeaBass]

Romans 13:9-10, "For the commandments: You shall not commit adultery, You shall not murder, You shall not steal, You shall not bring false testimony, You shall not covet, and all other commandments are summed up in these Laws; namely: You must love your neighbor as yourself. Love does no wrong to a neighbor; therefore love is the fulfilling of the law."

Same Law:

"Unless heaven and earth passes away, one yodh--the smallest of the letters--will in no way pass from the Law, "

Psalm 89:26-37, "He will call out to Me; You are my Father, O Yahweh! You are the Rock of my salvation! And I will make Him My firstborn, higher than the kings of the earth. My mercy I will keep for Him forever and My covenant will stand fast with Him. And I will establish his Seed forever, and his throne will be as the days of heaven. Should his children forsake My Law, and refuse to walk in My judgments; Should they profane My statutes, and fail to keep My commandments; Then I will punish their transgression with the rod, and their iniquity with lashes from the whip. Nevertheless, My lovingkindness I will not utterly withdraw from him, nor will I ever betray My faithfulness. My covenant I will not break, nor will I change what that has gone out of My lips. Once for all, I have vowed by My holiness--I cannot lie, and I say to David: His Seed will endure forever, and his throne will endure before Me like the sun. His throne will be established forever like the moon: the faithful witness in the sky."

Christ took all the OT out of the way including the 10 commndments. Nine of those 10 are carried over to the NT. Nowhere did Christ/apostles tell Christian to remember the Sabbath day to keep it Holy.

Deut 5:2,3 the OT law/covenant was only given to Jews, never given to Gentiles or Christians to keep.

 

[Hizikyah]

No, Paul said being married to Christ one cannot also be married to the OT law too.

Rom 7:4 "Wherefore, my brethren, ye also are become dead to the law (law of Moses) by the body of Christ; that ye should be married to another (Christ and HIs NT gospel) ,even to him who is raised from the dead, that we should bring forth fruit unto God."

Not dead to sin but Paul said dead to the law.

So because you added (law of Moses) to the vese thats wha it says now.... ok.

The law of sin and death is not, "do not steal" "do not kill" "love your neighbor" "do not take the Name of YHWH in vain", the law of sin and death is what you see on a television daily...

Ok, so Romans 7:

7 What? Can anyone therefore say that the Law is sin? No! By no means! But to the contrary, I did not know sin; transgression of the Law, except through the Law, for I did not know lust, unless the Law had said: Do not covet.

12 Therefore the Law is holy, and the commandments are holy, and just, and righteous.

Obedience to Leviticus 19:18, "Do not seek revenge nor bear a grudge against one of your own people; but you shall love your neighbor as yourself. I am Yahweh." is holy.

13 Did that which is righteous, then, become death to me? By no means! But in order that sin might be recognized as sin, it produced death in me through that which was righteous, so that through the commandments, sin might become utterly sinful.

"sin might become utterly sinful" breaking "do not steal" is sin and death

14 For we know that the Law is spiritual; but I was carnal, sold into the power of sin.

the Law is spiritual;
Do not hold back the wages of a hired man overnight. Do not curse the deaf or put a stumblingblock in front of the blind; but reverence your Father. I am Yahweh. Do not pervert judgment: You shall not show partiality to the poor, nor honor to the person of the great.

Breaking "You shall not show partiality to the poor, nor honor to the person of the great." is carnal


16 And if I did what I did not want to do, I agreed that the Law is righteous.

17 As it was, it was no longer I myself who did it, but it was sin living in me.

22 For I delight in the Law of Yahweh according to the inward man;

23 But I saw another law at work in the members of my body, waging war against the Law in my mind, and bringing me into captivity of the law of sin, which is in my members.

25 Thanks be to Yahweh, I have deliverance through Yahshua Messiah our King! So then, with this same mind, I myself serve the Law of Yahweh, while in the flesh that is yet subject to the law of sin.

"I have deliverance"

deliverance from "do not steal" or deliverance from breaking "do not steal"

Romans 8:

2 Because through Yahshua Messiah, the Law of the Spirit has set me free from the law of sin and death.

(Romans 7:14 For we know that the Law is spiritual; but I was carnal, sold into the power of sin.
Romans 7:7 What? Can anyone therefore say that the Law is sin? No! By no means! But to the contrary, I did not know sin; transgression of the Law, except through the Law, for I did not know lust, unless the Law had said: Do not covet.)


3 For what the Law was powerless to do, in that men sought to defeat; overthrow, fit, Yahweh did by sending His own Son in the likeness of sinful man, to bear witness against sin. And so He condemned the sins of all mankind."

(sin is the transgression of the Law)

Is sin "do not steal?"

or is sin breaking "do not steal?"

(Romans 7:14 For we know that the Law is spiritual)

Romans 8:5-8, "For those who live according to the flesh, set their minds on the things of the flesh; but those who live according to the Spirit, set their minds on the things of the Spirit. For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace. Because the carnal mind is enmity against; (bitterly opposed to), Yahweh; for it his not subject to the Law of Yahweh, nor indeed can be. So then, those who are of the flesh cannot please Yahweh."

What is the flesh opposed to?

Following Yahweh's Law?

Rejecting Yahweh's Law?

carnal mind is enmity against
for it his not subject to the Law of Yahweh


2 peter 3:15-17, "And count the patience of our Lord as salvation, just as our beloved brother Paul also wrote to you according to the wisdom given him, as he does in all his letters when he speaks in them of these matters. There are some things in them that are hard to understand, which the ignorant and unstable twist to their own destruction, as they do the other Scriptures. You therefore, beloved, knowing this beforehand, take care that you are not carried away with the error of lawless people and lose your own stability."

Psalm 19:7-10, "The Laws of Yahweh are perfect, converting the whole person. The testimony of Yahweh is sure, making the simple ones wise. The statutes of Yahweh are right, rejoicing the heart; mind. The commandments of Yahweh are pure, bringing understanding to the eyes. The reverence of Yahweh is clean, enduring forever. The judgments of Yahweh are true and altogether righteous. They are more to be desired than gold, yes, than even much fine gold. They are sweeter than honey and the honeycomb."

 

[Hizikyah]

Christ took all the OT out of the way including the 10 commndments. Nine of those 10 are carried over to the NT. Nowhere did Christ/apostles tell Christian to remember the Sabbath day to keep it Holy.

Deut 5:2,3 the OT law/covenant was only given to Jews, never given to Gentiles or Christians to keep.

LOL is that what He did? You guys are too much.

Luke 16:17, "But it is easier for heaven and earth to pass, than one yodh of the Law to fail."

Isayah 24:1-6, "Behold, Yahweh makes the earth empty and makes it waste, perverts the face of it and scatters abroad its inhabitants; And it will be: as with the people, so with the priest; as with the servant, so with his owner; as with the maid, so with her mistress; as with the buyer, so with the seller; as with the lender, so with the borrower; as with him who takes usury, so with him who gives usury to him: The land will be utterly emptied and utterly plundered, for Yahweh has spoken this word. The earth mourns and fades away, the world mourns and fades away, and the haughty people of the earth languish. The earth also is defiled under the inhabitants of it, because they have transgressed the Laws, changed the ordinance, and broken the everlasting covenant. Because of this, the curse has devoured the earth, and they who dwell therein are desolate; therefore, the inhabitants of the earth are burned, and few men left."

Daniyl 7:25, "And he will speak great words against Yahweh, and will wear out; mentally attack to cause to fall away, the saints of Yahweh, and think to change times and Laws..."

 

[Hizikyah]

Deut 5:2,3 the OT law/covenant was only given to Jews, never given to Gentiles or Christians to keep.

Read the book. Clearly you are in error against what is plainly written, but I know Im still the one thats wrong right?

Isayah 56:1-7, "This is what Yahweh says: Keep the judgments, and do justly; for My salvation is near, soon, to come, and My righteousness to be revealed. Blessed is the man who does this, and the son of man who lays hold on it; who keeps the Sabbaths without polluting; defiling, them; and keeps his hand from doing any evil. Do not let the son of the Gentile, who has joined himself to Yahweh, speak, saying; Yahweh has utterly separated me from His people. Nor let the eunuch say; Behold, I am a dry tree. For this is what Yahweh says: To the eunuchs who keep My Sabbaths, and choose those things which please Me, and hold fast to My covenant: I will give to them, in My House, even within My walls, a place and a Name equal to that of sons and of daughters; I will give them the Name of The Everlasting: YAHWEH; which will not be cut off. Also the sons of the Gentile who join themselves to Yahweh, to serve Him, and to love the Name of Yahweh, to be His servants--everyone who keeps the Sabbaths without polluting; defiling, them and who holds fast to My covenant--I will bring them to My holy mountain, and make them joyful in My House of prayer..."

Exodus 12:48-49, "And when a stranger lives among you and wants to sacrifice the Passover to Yahweh, let all his males be circumcised, and then let him come near, and sacrifice it; and he shall be as a native of the land. But no uncircumcised person shall eat of it. One Law shall be for the nativeborn and for the stranger who dwells among you."

Numbers 15:15-16, "One ordinance shall be for you of the congregation, and for the stranger who sojourns with you, as an ordinance forever throughout your generations. As you are, so shall the stranger be in front of Yahweh. One Law and one manner shall be for you and for the stranger who sojourns with you."

Romans 2:4-12, “Or do you despise the riches of His kindness, forbearance, and longsuffering; not realizing that Yahweh’s kindness is meant to lead you to repentance? But according to your stubborn and impenitent mind you are storing up wrath for yourself for the day of Yahweh’s wrath, when the righteous judgment of Yahweh will be revealed; when He will reward each one according to his works: to the ones on the one hand, who, by patient persistence in doing righteousness, seek for glory, honor and immortality, He will give eternal life. But to the ones on the other hand, who are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, He will give indignation and wrath.” Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man who does evil: to the Yahdai(Jew) first, and also to the Greek (Gentile) But glory, honor, and peace to every man who works righteousness: to the Yahdai first, and also to the Greek. For there is no respect of persons with Yahweh.For all who have sinned without the law will also perish without the law, and all who have sinned under the law will be judged by the law.”

 

[Hizikyah]

Not dead to sin but Paul said dead to the law.

wow you really just said that....

"Then I heard another voice from heaven saying, “Come out of her, my people, lest you take part in her sins, lest you share in her plagues;"

 

[SeaBass]

wow you really just said that....

"Then I heard another voice from heaven saying, “Come out of her, my people, lest you take part in her sins, lest you share in her plagues;"

Huh??

Rom 7:4 "Wherefore, my brethren, ye also are become dead to the law...."

Paul's point since Christ made one dead to the law he can then be married to Christ and His NT gospel, CANNOT keep both at the same time as a woman cannot keep two husbands at the same time making her an adulteress.

 

[oldthennew]

ROMANS 3:24-25-26-27-28-29.

For the name of God is blasphemed among the gentiles through you,
as it is written,
For circumcision verily profits IF you keep the Law: but if you be a
breaker of the Law, your circumcision is made uncircumcision.
Therefore, If the uncircumcision keep the 'righteousness of the Law,
shall not his uncircumcision be counted for circumcision?

And shall not uncircumcision which is by nature, IF it fulfill the Law, judge you,
who by the letter and circumcision does transgress the Law?

For he is not a Jew, which is one OUTWARDLY; neither is that circumcision,
which is outward in the flesh:

But, he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the HEART,
in the SPIRIT, and NOT in the letter; whose praise is not of men, BUT OF GOD.

 

[SeaBass]

Read the book. Clearly you are in error against what is plainly written, but I know Im still the one thats wrong right?

Isayah 56:1-7, "This is what Yahweh says: Keep the judgments, and do justly; for My salvation is near, soon, to come, and My righteousness to be revealed. Blessed is the man who does this, and the son of man who lays hold on it; who keeps the Sabbaths without polluting; defiling, them; and keeps his hand from doing any evil. Do not let the son of the Gentile, who has joined himself to Yahweh, speak, saying; Yahweh has utterly separated me from His people. Nor let the eunuch say; Behold, I am a dry tree. For this is what Yahweh says: To the eunuchs who keep My Sabbaths, and choose those things which please Me, and hold fast to My covenant: I will give to them, in My House, even within My walls, a place and a Name equal to that of sons and of daughters; I will give them the Name of The Everlasting: YAHWEH; which will not be cut off. Also the sons of the Gentile who join themselves to Yahweh, to serve Him, and to love the Name of Yahweh, to be His servants--everyone who keeps the Sabbaths without polluting; defiling, them and who holds fast to My covenant--I will bring them to My holy mountain, and make them joyful in My House of prayer..."

Exodus 12:48-49, "And when a stranger lives among you and wants to sacrifice the Passover to Yahweh, let all his males be circumcised, and then let him come near, and sacrifice it; and he shall be as a native of the land. But no uncircumcised person shall eat of it. One Law shall be for the nativeborn and for the stranger who dwells among you."

Numbers 15:15-16, "One ordinance shall be for you of the congregation, and for the stranger who sojourns with you, as an ordinance forever throughout your generations. As you are, so shall the stranger be in front of Yahweh. One Law and one manner shall be for you and for the stranger who sojourns with you."

Romans 2:4-12, “Or do you despise the riches of His kindness, forbearance, and longsuffering; not realizing that Yahweh’s kindness is meant to lead you to repentance? But according to your stubborn and impenitent mind you are storing up wrath for yourself for the day of Yahweh’s wrath, when the righteous judgment of Yahweh will be revealed; when He will reward each one according to his works: to the ones on the one hand, who, by patient persistence in doing righteousness, seek for glory, honor and immortality, He will give eternal life. But to the ones on the other hand, who are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, He will give indignation and wrath.” Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man who does evil: to the Yahdai(Jew) first, and also to the Greek (Gentile) But glory, honor, and peace to every man who works righteousness: to the Yahdai first, and also to the Greek. For there is no respect of persons with Yahweh.For all who have sinned without the law will also perish without the law, and all who have sinned under the law will be judged by the law.”

Deut 5:2,3:

The LORD our God made a covenant with us in Horeb.
The LORD made not this covenant with our fathers, but with us, even us, who are all of us here alive this day.

The 'us' refers to the Jews, no one else but the Jews.

Gentiles could become proselytes to the Law of Moses but that law was never given to the Gentiles to keep.

 

[SeaBass]

LOL is that what He did? You guys are too much.

Luke 16:17, "But it is easier for heaven and earth to pass, than one yodh of the Law to fail."

Isayah 24:1-6, "Behold, Yahweh makes the earth empty and makes it waste, perverts the face of it and scatters abroad its inhabitants; And it will be: as with the people, so with the priest; as with the servant, so with his owner; as with the maid, so with her mistress; as with the buyer, so with the seller; as with the lender, so with the borrower; as with him who takes usury, so with him who gives usury to him: The land will be utterly emptied and utterly plundered, for Yahweh has spoken this word. The earth mourns and fades away, the world mourns and fades away, and the haughty people of the earth languish. The earth also is defiled under the inhabitants of it, because they have transgressed the Laws, changed the ordinance, and broken the everlasting covenant. Because of this, the curse has devoured the earth, and they who dwell therein are desolate; therefore, the inhabitants of the earth are burned, and few men left."

Daniyl 7:25, "And he will speak great words against Yahweh, and will wear out; mentally attack to cause to fall away, the saints of Yahweh, and think to change times and Laws..."

Luke uses the stability of heaven and earth in showing it would be EASIER for heaven and earth to pass away than for the law not to fulfill its purpose. Luke is NOT saying heaven and earth must pass before the law would pass, that idea is being read into the text.

Lk 16:17 "And it is easier for heaven and earth to pass, than one tittle of the law to fail."

Lk 18;25 "For it is easier for a camel to go through a needle's eye, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God."

If Lk 16:17 means heaven and earth must literally pass before the law would pass, does Lk 18:25 mean a camel must literally pass through the eye of a needle before a rich man can be saved?