Done Away?

[Hizikyah]

Huh??

Rom 7:4 "Wherefore, my brethren, ye also are become dead to the law...."

Paul's point since Christ made one dead to the law he can then be married to Christ and His NT gospel, CANNOT keep both at the same time as a woman cannot keep two husbands at the same time making her an adulteress.

Well Paul is in trouble then:

Acts 24:14, "But I confess this to you, that after the way which they call heresy--so I worship the Father of my fathers, believing all things which are written in the Law and in the Prophets."

Romans 7:25, "Thanks be to Yahweh, I have deliverance through Yahshua Messiah our King! So then, with this same mind, I myself serve the Law of Yahweh, while in the flesh that is yet subject to the law of sin."

Acts 21:24, "Take them, and be purified with them, and pay their expenses so that they may shave their heads. Then everyone will know that those things they were informed about you (forsaking the Law), were lies, and that you, yourself, walk orderly, and keep the Law."

sure.... did you even read that post about the law of sin and death? Have you ever read past Romans 7:4? (I know you have just saying...)

Revelation 12:17, "And the dragon was enraged with the woman, and went to make war with those who forsook her seed; her seed being those who keep the Laws of Yahweh, and have the testimony of Yahshua Messiah."

1785. entolé
Definition: an ordinance, injunction, command, law.

2 peter 3:15-17, "And count the patience of our Lord as salvation, just as our beloved brother Paul also wrote to you according to the wisdom given him, as he does in all his letters when he speaks in them of these matters. There are some things in them that are hard to understand, which the ignorant and unstable twist to their own destruction, as they do the other Scriptures. You therefore, beloved, knowing this beforehand, take care that you are not carried away with the error of lawless people and lose your own stability."

What does, "take care that you are not carried away with the error of lawless people" mean?

Is Lawless those who submit to the Law of the Most High?

or

Is Lawless those who will not submit to the Law of the Most High?

 

[Hizikyah]

Luke uses the stability of heaven and earth in showing it would be EASIER for heaven and earth to pass away than for the law not to fulfill its purpose. Luke is NOT saying heaven and earth must pass before the law would pass, that idea is being read into the text.

Lk 16:17 "And it is easier for heaven and earth to pass, than one tittle of the law to fail."

Lk 18;25 "For it is easier for a camel to go through a needle's eye, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God."

If Lk 16:17 means heaven and earth must literally pass before the law would pass, does Lk 18:25 mean a camel must literally pass through the eye of a needle before a rich man can be saved?

Nice try.

And yes heaven and earth will pass and there will be a renewed heaven and earth:

"Unless heaven and earth passes away..the smallest of the letters--will in no way pass from the Law"

Revelation 21:1-2, "And I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away, and there was no more sea. And I, Yahchanan, saw the holy city, Yahweh Shammah, coming down from Yahweh out of heaven, prepared as brides adorned for their husbands. And I heard a great voice out of heaven, saying: Behold, the tabernacle of Yahweh is with men, and He will dwell with them, and they will be His people, and Yahweh Himself will be with them, and be their Father.


Isayah 66:21-24, "And I will also take of them for priests and for Levites, says Yahweh. For as the new heavens and the new earth which I will make will remain before Me, says Yahweh: so will your seed and your name remain. And it will come to pass that from one New Moon to another, and from one Sabbath to another, all flesh will come to worship before Me, says Yahweh. And they will go forth and look upon the carcasses of the men who have transgressed against Me; for their worm will not die, nor will their fire be quenched; and they will be an abhorrence to all flesh."

 

[SeaBass]

Well Paul is in trouble then:

Acts 24:14, "But I confess this to you, that after the way which they call heresy--so I worship the Father of my fathers, believing all things which are written in the Law and in the Prophets."

Romans 7:25, "Thanks be to Yahweh, I have deliverance through Yahshua Messiah our King! So then, with this same mind, I myself serve the Law of Yahweh, while in the flesh that is yet subject to the law of sin."

Acts 21:24, "Take them, and be purified with them, and pay their expenses so that they may shave their heads. Then everyone will know that those things they were informed about you (forsaking the Law), were lies, and that you, yourself, walk orderly, and keep the Law."

sure.... did you even read that post about the law of sin and death? Have you ever read past Romans 7:4? (I know you have just saying...)

Revelation 12:17, "And the dragon was enraged with the woman, and went to make war with those who forsook her seed; her seed being those who keep the Laws of Yahweh, and have the testimony of Yahshua Messiah."

1785. entolé
Definition: an ordinance, injunction, command, law.

2 peter 3:15-17, "And count the patience of our Lord as salvation, just as our beloved brother Paul also wrote to you according to the wisdom given him, as he does in all his letters when he speaks in them of these matters. There are some things in them that are hard to understand, which the ignorant and unstable twist to their own destruction, as they do the other Scriptures. You therefore, beloved, knowing this beforehand, take care that you are not carried away with the error of lawless people and lose your own stability."

What does, "take care that you are not carried away with the error of lawless people" mean?

Is Lawless those who submit to the Law of the Most High?

or

Is Lawless those who will not submit to the Law of the Most High?

Paul would not make it a sin for a Christian to keep both the OT and NT law at the same time but then commit that sin himself, Rom 7:3-5.

In Acts 24:5 Paul had been falsely accused "For we have found this man a pestilent fellow, and a mover of sedition among all the Jews throughout the world, and a ringleader of the sect of the Nazarenes:" and Paul was before Felix defending himself against those false charges.

Paul was preaching Christianity and those Jews were accusing Paul of not preaching Judaism but preaching some new religion not authorized by the state, therefore accusing Paul of breaking the law. In Acts 24:14 Paul is saying the Christianity he was preaching is not some new religion, , but Christainity was the fulfillment of Judaism and the way Jews are to continue to serve God. Paul is not in anyway saying he was keeping the OT law, for Paul condemned such an idea in Rom 7:3-5, and the Galatian epistle for starters.

Rev 12:17 says nothing about Christians keeping the OT la of Moses.

 

[SeaBass]

Nice try.

And yes heaven and earth will pass and there will be a renewed heaven and earth:

"Unless heaven and earth passes away..the smallest of the letters--will in no way pass from the Law"

Revelation 21:1-2, "And I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away, and there was no more sea. And I, Yahchanan, saw the holy city, Yahweh Shammah, coming down from Yahweh out of heaven, prepared as brides adorned for their husbands. And I heard a great voice out of heaven, saying: Behold, the tabernacle of Yahweh is with men, and He will dwell with them, and they will be His people, and Yahweh Himself will be with them, and be their Father.


Isayah 66:21-24, "And I will also take of them for priests and for Levites, says Yahweh. For as the new heavens and the new earth which I will make will remain before Me, says Yahweh: so will your seed and your name remain. And it will come to pass that from one New Moon to another, and from one Sabbath to another, all flesh will come to worship before Me, says Yahweh. And they will go forth and look upon the carcasses of the men who have transgressed against Me; for their worm will not die, nor will their fire be quenched; and they will be an abhorrence to all flesh."

Did Luke say (1) heaven and earth pass away before the law would pass?

Or did Luke say (2) it would be easier for heaven and earth to pass way than for the law to fail?

Big difference between the two.

Again:

Lk 16:17 "And it is easier for heaven and earth to pass, than one tittle of the law to fail."

Lk 18;25 "For it is easier for a camel to go through a needle's eye, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God."

If Lk 16:17 means heaven and earth must literally pass before the law would pass, does Lk 18:25 mean a camel must literally pass through the eye of a needle before a rich man can be saved?

 

[oldthennew]

JAMES 2:10.

For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.

 

[Hizikyah]

JAMES 2:10.

For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.

This is true, and very humbling IMO. I am so glad we have Yahshua (Yahweh's Salvation)

1 John 1:8-10, "If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. If we say that we have not sinned, we make Him a liar, and His word is not in us."

Hebrew 4:15, "For we do not have a High Priest Who cannot sympathize with our weaknesses, but was in all ways tempted as we are--yet was without sin."

1 Timothy 2:5, "For there is one God, and there is one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus."

1 Timothy 2:5, "For One is Yahweh; and One Mediator between Yahweh and men: the Man, Yahshua Messiah."

Psalm 40:16, "May all those who seek You rejoice and be glad in You! May those who love Your salvation always say: May Yahweh be magnified!"

 

[Grandpa]

We are not called to submit to the Law of the Most High. We are given rest from these impossible works of the flesh. Only the Holy Spirit can perfectly obey the Law.

Galatians 2:18-21
[SUP]18 [/SUP]For if I build again the things which I destroyed, I make myself a transgressor.
[SUP]19 [/SUP]For I through the law am dead to the law, that I might live unto God.
[SUP]20 [/SUP]I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.
[SUP]21 [/SUP]I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.

 

[Hizikyah]

We are not called to submit to the Law of the Most High. We are given rest from these impossible works of the flesh. Only the Holy Spirit can perfectly obey the Law.

Galatians 2:18-21
[SUP]18 [/SUP]For if I build again the things which I destroyed, I make myself a transgressor.
[SUP]19 [/SUP]For I through the law am dead to the law, that I might live unto God.
[SUP]20 [/SUP]I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.
[SUP]21 [/SUP]I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.

Nobodies works can save them, but does that mean everything He says MUST be rejected?.......

It is clear those that are the seed of Yah keep and have faith:

Revelation 12:17, "And the dragon was enraged with the woman, and went to make war with those who forsook her seed; her seed being those who keep the Laws of Yahweh, and have the testimony of Yahshua Messiah."

1785. entolé
Definition: an ordinance, injunction, command, law.

Mattithyah 7:23, "But then I will declare to them; I never knew you. Get away from Me, you who practice iniquity."

iniquity is:#0458 anomia {an-om-ee'-ah} from G0459

Greek Word Study (Transliteration-Pronunciation Etymology & Grammar)
1) the condition of without law
1a) because ignorant of it
1b) because of violating it
2) contempt and violation of law, iniquity, wickedness

 

[Hizikyah]

Matt 5:18, "For truly I say to you; Unless heaven and earth passes away, one yodh--the smallest of the letters--will in no way pass from the Law, until all things are perfected."

"Unless heaven and earth passes away..the smallest of the letters--will in no way pass from the Law"

Unless...unless.....unless...

Revelation 21:1-2, "And I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away, and there was no more sea. And I, Yahchanan, saw the holy city, Yahweh Shammah, coming down from Yahweh out of heaven, prepared as brides adorned for their husbands. And I heard a great voice out of heaven, saying: Behold, the tabernacle of Yahweh is with men, and He will dwell with them, and they will be His people, and Yahweh Himself will be with them, and be their Father.

 

[Hizikyah]

We are not called to submit to the Law of the Most High. We are given rest from these impossible works of the flesh. Only the Holy Spirit can perfectly obey the Law.

Galatians 2:18-21
[SUP]18 [/SUP]For if I build again the things which I destroyed, I make myself a transgressor.
[SUP]19 [/SUP]For I through the law am dead to the law, that I might live unto God.
[SUP]20 [/SUP]I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.
[SUP]21 [/SUP]I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.

And it is clear error to say following His Law is bad, Paul himself followed it:

Acts 24:14, "But I confess this to you, that after the way which they call heresy--so I worship the Father of my fathers, believing all things which are written in the Law and in the Prophets."

Romans 7:25, "Thanks be to Yahweh, I have deliverance through Yahshua Messiah our King! So then, with this same mind, I myself serve the Law of Yahweh, while in the flesh that is yet subject to the law of sin."

Acts 21:24, "Take them, and be purified with them, and pay their expenses so that they may shave their heads. Then everyone will know that those things they were informed about you (forsaking the Law), were lies, and that you, yourself, walk orderly, and keep the Law."

2 peter 3:15-17, "And count the patience of our Lord as salvation, just as our beloved brother Paul also wrote to you according to the wisdom given him, as he does in all his letters when he speaks in them of these matters. There are some things in them that are hard to understand, which the ignorant and unstable twist to their own destruction, as they do the other Scriptures. You therefore, beloved, knowing this beforehand, take care that you are not carried away with the error of lawless people and lose your own stability."

Big difference between submitting to Yah and thus His Law and justification by works...

 

[gb9]

so, what do you do with when Jesus was transfigured, God the father's voice said hear him, in the presence of Moses and Elijah, representing the law and prophets?

 

[jaybird88]

here is another perspective on all this. whats it gonna hurt if you chose to follow the law, commandments and decrees of the Hebrew bible? does anyone think our Lord would pass a severe judgement on us? for trying to obey His law?

 

[Hizikyah]

here is another perspective on all this. whats it gonna hurt if you chose to follow the law, commandments and decrees of the Hebrew bible? does anyone think our Lord would pass a severe judgement on us? for trying to obey His law?

Mattithyah 5:19, "Whosoever, therefore, will break one of the least of these Laws, and will teach men so, he will be called the least in the Kingdom of Yahweh; but whosoever will do and teach them, the same will be called great in the Kingdom of Yahweh."

Mattithyah 7:23, "But then I will declare to them; I never knew you. Get away from Me, you who practice iniquity."

iniquity is:#0458 anomia {an-om-ee'-ah} from G0459

Greek Word Study (Transliteration-Pronunciation Etymology & Grammar)
1) the condition of without law
1a) because ignorant of it
1b) because of violating it
2) contempt and violation of law, iniquity, wickedness

Psalm 111:7-10, "The works of Your hands are truth and judgment, and all Your Laws are sure; They stand fast for ever and ever, and are done in truth and uprightness. You sent redemption to Your people; You have commanded; ordained, Your covenant forever. Holy and Reverend is Your Name. The reverence of Yahweh is the beginning of wisdom. A great understanding have all they who do (Your Laws). Your praise endures for ever!"

 

[newbirth]

JAMES 2:10.

For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.

why do people not see..."the whole law"...go find out what "the whole law" is ..then see if anyone is trying to keep "the whole law"..

 

[oldthennew]

here is another perspective on all this. whats it gonna hurt if you chose to follow the law, commandments and decrees of the Hebrew bible? does anyone think our Lord would pass a severe judgement on us? for trying to obey His law?

=================================================

no jaybird,

but man certainly will.

 

[Hizikyah]

here is another perspective on all this. whats it gonna hurt if you chose to follow the law, commandments and decrees of the Hebrew bible? does anyone think our Lord would pass a severe judgement on us? for trying to obey His law?

=================================================

no jaybird,

but man certainly will.

Revelation 12:17, "And the dragon was enraged with the woman, and went to make war with those who forsook her seed; her seed being those who keep the Laws of Yahweh, and have the testimony of Yahshua Messiah."

 

[newbirth]

here is another perspective on all this. whats it gonna hurt if you chose to follow the law, commandments and decrees of the Hebrew bible? does anyone think our Lord would pass a severe judgement on us? for trying to obey His law?

under the OT the law of commandment was tied into the law of ordinances and sacrifices....Those who are in Christ under the NT are removed from the bondage of ordinances and sacrifices...but not from the spirituality and morality towards God and our fellow men found in the law of commandments that was written in tablets of stone...Which God has now written on our hearts....how can we disobey what God has written on our hearts and hope to be found guiltless before God...

 

[Grandpa]

here is another perspective on all this. whats it gonna hurt if you chose to follow the law, commandments and decrees of the Hebrew bible? does anyone think our Lord would pass a severe judgement on us? for trying to obey His law?

Galatians 3:2-3
[SUP]2 [/SUP]This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?
[SUP]3 [/SUP]Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh?

What's it going to hurt if you follow the law???

Galatians 3:10-14

[SUP]10 [/SUP]For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them.
[SUP]11 [/SUP]But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith.
[SUP]12 [/SUP]And the law is not of faith: but, The man that doeth them shall live in them.
[SUP]13 [/SUP]Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree:
[SUP]14 [/SUP]That the blessing of Abraham might come on the Gentiles through Jesus Christ; that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.


What's it going to hurt to forsake the work of Christ and try to pick up the work of Righteousness again for ourselves???

Galatians 5:1-5
[SUP]1[/SUP]Stand fast therefore in the liberty wherewith Christ hath made us free, and be not entangled again with the yoke of bondage.
[SUP]2 [/SUP]Behold, I Paul say unto you, that if ye be circumcised, Christ shall profit you nothing.
[SUP]3 [/SUP]For I testify again to every man that is circumcised, that he is a debtor to do the whole law.
[SUP]4 [/SUP]Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace.
[SUP]5 [/SUP]For we through the Spirit wait for the hope of righteousness by faith.


Haven't you read Galatians?

 

[Messenger_of_Fire]

Mattithyah 5:19, "Whosoever, therefore, will break one of the least of these Laws, and will teach men so, he will be called the least in the Kingdom of Yahweh; but whosoever will do and teach them, the same will be called great in the Kingdom of Yahweh."

Mattithyah 7:23, "But then I will declare to them; I never knew you. Get away from Me, you who practice iniquity."

iniquity is:#0458 anomia {an-om-ee'-ah} from G0459

Greek Word Study (Transliteration-Pronunciation Etymology & Grammar)
1) the condition of without law
1a) because ignorant of it
1b) because of violating it
2) contempt and violation of law, iniquity, wickedness

Psalm 111:7-10, "The works of Your hands are truth and judgment, and all Your Laws are sure; They stand fast for ever and ever, and are done in truth and uprightness. You sent redemption to Your people; You have commanded; ordained, Your covenant forever. Holy and Reverend is Your Name. The reverence of Yahweh is the beginning of wisdom. A great understanding have all they who do (Your Laws). Your praise endures for ever!"

The least in the kingdom however, is greater than John. It is therefore the seeking of the kingdom, which should be above all.

 

[ELECT]

The least in the kingdom however, is greater than John. It is therefore the seeking of the kingdom, which should be above all.

the least in the kingdom are they in the kingdom ?