Catholic Heresy (for the record)

[Jackson123]

Okay, a bit vague and off the point. As if there has never been a protestant who never killed anyone. You don't need to reply I'll put you on my ignore list.

There is individual protestant who kill, and I am not defend them, If there is organized protestant kill I know that it not real church establish by God. Christian mean Christ follower, not Killer.

 

[notuptome]

It took me a great deal of time, over several days, to read all of this thread. It makes me very sad. Such harsh language against each other. I am not Catholic. But one poster hit it on the head. There are "good Catholics" who are bad Christians, just as there are "good Evangelicals" who are bad Christians. When your doctrine becomes more important to you that your love and respect for the image of God reflected in the person across from you, you're simply doing it wrong. Many, it seems, have so internalized their salvation that it has become a possession to be guarded and protected, rather than gift to be shared in love and mercy. The interesting thing is that I read many Protestant declarations of protest over Catholic adherence to church doctrine instead of the teachings of Christ...then in the same post, there are staunch declarations of adherence to Protestant doctrine. Where is the mutual love, mercy, and respect due to a fellow believer...even if there are doctrinal disagreements. Faith in Christ is the ONLY way to salvation. That is clear. These doctrinal arguments belittle the entire Christian faith. My church has doctrine, and if you attend one, so does yours. I'm O.K. with that, kept in perspective. Many in this thread have lost theirs. Every church, Protestant, Catholic, Non-denominational, has doctrine. But doctrine doesn't save. Doctrine doesn't heal. Doctrine doesn't put you in the presence of God.

Doctrine to be considered sound doctrine must be biblical doctrine. Jesus taught doctrine. The apostles taught doctrine. The great commission in Mat 28 is to go and make disciples. How is that done? By teaching doctrine.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[notuptome]

I don't have a problem with labeling theology and actions and should have used Protestantism instead. I accept Jesus as the only savior.

Just what does that mean? You accept Jesus as the only Savior? Do you accept Jesus as your personal Savior? Do you accept that Jesus is the only Savior that can give you eternal life through the forgiveness of your sins? Do you accept that the blood of Jesus the only Savior is the only thing sufficient to atone for your sins? Or are you using that as a cover to hide your real dependence on the sacraments of the mass?

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[Jackson123]

Just what does that mean? You accept Jesus as the only Savior? Do you accept Jesus as your personal Savior? Do you accept that Jesus is the only Savior that can give you eternal life through the forgiveness of your sins? Do you accept that the blood of Jesus the only Savior is the only thing sufficient to atone for your sins? Or are you using that as a cover to hide your real dependence on the sacraments of the mass?

For the cause of Christ
Roger

If so then not pray to Mary, or defend Killer church.

 

[notuptome]

If so then not pray to Mary, or defend Killer church.

It accomplishes nothing to harp on subjects as you do that can only cause offense. Demonstrate sound doctrine in the face of false doctrine and allow God to minister in hearts. God brings conviction of sin, righteousness and judgment not men's reasoning.

People are killed every day in the name of religion. God is aware of the situation and God will bring those responsible to account in His time.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[drjshow]

Doctrine to be considered sound doctrine must be biblical doctrine. Jesus taught doctrine. The apostles taught doctrine. The great commission in Mat 28 is to go and make disciples. How is that done? By teaching doctrine.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

To be considered sound doctrine on who's interpretation? With all due respect, I disagree with your definition of making disciples. Disciples are not made by teaching sound doctrine, but by bringing a person to faith in Christ, so that they may establish their personal relationship with the Savior. My relationship with Christ likely does not perfectly reflect yours. If we define sin as that which separates us from the love of God, then my sin does not necessarily correspond with yours in it's nature. The point being the denominational doctrines are man-made. It is in Christ's individual conquest of the soul that salvation is found. Your ability, or inability, to teach doctrine does not lessen nor magnify His authority.

 

[notuptome]

To be considered sound doctrine on who's interpretation? With all due respect, I disagree with your definition of making disciples. Disciples are not made by teaching sound doctrine, but by bringing a person to faith in Christ, so that they may establish their personal relationship with the Savior. My relationship with Christ likely does not perfectly reflect yours. If we define sin as that which separates us from the love of God, then my sin does not necessarily correspond with yours in it's nature. The point being the denominational doctrines are man-made. It is in Christ's individual conquest of the soul that salvation is found. Your ability, or inability, to teach doctrine does not lessen nor magnify His authority.

We are never told to make converts. Our commission is to disciple. To witness and to disciple. Jesus never told the apostles to go out and make converts. Jesus told Peter to feed the lambs.

We often consider that our ministry is to win souls to Christ but really all we can do is tell others of what Christ did for us and trust the Lord to draw them to Him and save them. After they are saved we are charged to disciple them in the doctrines of the bible.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[jeff_peacemkr]

the disciples proved, AFTER revelation from Yahweh, from TORAH that Yahshua is the Messiah. over , and over, and over, and over again.

Yahshua taught the disciples what to do, what to teach, how to live, because they did not know.

today, we know even less. but trust and rely on Yahshua's Faithfulness to complete in us His Plan as He did/does with all the apostles and disciples in the NT, as examples and more in the Life of Yahweh.

the foolishness of men to think they can find out about 'God' any other way is astounding, and pervasive throughout churches and society.

no prophecy of scripture is open for interpretation by any man, never was, and never will be.

 

[didymos]

the disciples proved, AFTER revelation from Yahweh...

That's where I stopped reading.

 

[notuptome]

That's where I stopped reading.

I'm waiting for revelation.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[kennethcadwell]

We are never told to make converts. Our commission is to disciple. To witness and to disciple. Jesus never told the apostles to go out and make converts. Jesus told Peter to feed the lambs.

We often consider that our ministry is to win souls to Christ but really all we can do is tell others of what Christ did for us and trust the Lord to draw them to Him and save them. After they are saved we are charged to disciple them in the doctrines of the bible.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

Matthew 28:16-20


The Great Commission


16 Then the eleven disciples went to Galilee, to the mountain where Jesus had told them to go. 17 When they saw him, they worshiped him; but some doubted. 18 Then Jesus came to them and said, “All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. 19 Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, 20 and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age.”

 

[notuptome]

Matthew 28:16-20


The Great Commission


16 Then the eleven disciples went to Galilee, to the mountain where Jesus had told them to go. 17 When they saw him, they worshiped him; but some doubted. 18 Then Jesus came to them and said, “All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. 19 Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, 20 and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age.”

Superficial understanding of the passage. Disciples are made from converts not the other way around.

We testify of what Christ has done for us and the Holy Spirit makes the converts. We then disciple these new babes in Christ in the doctrines of the faith. This passage is all about teaching bible doctrine.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[kennethcadwell]

Superficial understanding of the passage. Disciples are made from converts not the other way around.

We testify of what Christ has done for us and the Holy Spirit makes the converts. We then disciple these new babes in Christ in the doctrines of the faith. This passage is all about teaching bible doctrine.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

That is where you are wrong, by hearing the word your faith is established making you a disciple.
You do not come to Christ as a convert, then work on becoming a disciple. That is fallacy teaching, as a convert is a disciple. All 12 were called Apostles/disciples immediately before they were even given all of the Lords teaching. If you are chosen, and accept that calling then you are His disciple.
They were not called to go out and make believers into disciples, for they are already disciples.
They were called to go out to the unbelievers and make disciples (believers) out to them...............

Your faulty understanding that you become a convert first, then work on becoming a disciple is flawed by scripture evidence..............

 

[notuptome]

That is where you are wrong, by hearing the word your faith is established making you a disciple.
You do not come to Christ as a convert, then work on becoming a disciple. That is fallacy teaching, as a convert is a disciple. All 12 were called Apostles/disciples immediately before they were even given all of the Lords teaching. If you are chosen, and accept that calling then you are His disciple.
They were not called to go out and make believers into disciples, for they are already disciples.
They were called to go out to the unbelievers and make disciples (believers) out to them...............

Your faulty understanding that you become a convert first, then work on becoming a disciple is flawed by scripture evidence..............

No amount of disputing is going to convince you but God does the saving not man. You have no interest in discipleship until you are converted.

This should serve as evidence of why you struggle. You must be yoked together with Christ before you can do anything of merit in the kingdom.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[kennethcadwell]

No amount of disputing is going to convince you but God does the saving not man. You have no interest in discipleship until you are converted.

This should serve as evidence of why you struggle. You must be yoked together with Christ before you can do anything of merit in the kingdom.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

To be a disciple means to be a follower of Christ, it is not something we strive to become.
For we are already disciples when we accept Him as our Lord and Savior, and continue to walk in His teachings. Your acceptance happens at hearing the word, not through discipleship......

Romans 10:17
So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.

Luke 6:13
And when it was day, he called unto Him His disciples: and of them he chose twelve, whom also He named apostles;

Luke 10:1
After these things the Lord appointed other seventy also, and sent them two and two before his face into every city and place, whither he himself would come.

They are already called disciples at this point because they follow Jesus, and in Luke 6 and 10 He appointed the disciples and He still had 14 more chapters of teachings for them from chapter ten. So you do not become a disciple later, as you are already one the first minute you put your faith and trust in Him.

 

[notuptome]

To be a disciple means to be a follower of Christ, it is not something we strive to become.
For we are already disciples when we accept Him as our Lord and Savior, and continue to walk in His teachings. Your acceptance happens at hearing the word, not through discipleship......

Romans 10:17
So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.

Luke 6:13
And when it was day, he called unto Him His disciples: and of them he chose twelve, whom also He named apostles;

Luke 10:1
After these things the Lord appointed other seventy also, and sent them two and two before his face into every city and place, whither he himself would come.

They are already called disciples at this point because they follow Jesus, and in Luke 6 and 10 He appointed the disciples and He still had 14 more chapters of teachings for them from chapter ten. So you do not become a disciple later, as you are already one the first minute you put your faith and trust in Him.

I'd explain it to you but it won't make any difference. John had disciples too you know. You may notice a pattern in the OT of prophets having disciples.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[didymos]

I'm waiting for revelation.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

No need to wait.
Just pray for illumination of the Holy Spirit and read your Bible.

 

[Mooky]

To anyone caught up in the catholic system , there is hope in Jesus Christ alone.
The following video is an excellent expose on the Vatican and I hope that catholics and evangelicals alike will benefit from its insights and truths.


[video=youtube;qHVmgJsp2IU]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qHVmgJsp2IU[/video]

 

[superMan9]

I recently in a most civil manner addressed a respectable Catholic from perceiving me as protestant. I see this as them distinguishing themselves from" not so real Christians". It upset the room as well as some moderators. However I spoke my peace and un-engaged myself from the what could be seen as Catholic bashing. The Bible has no terms or words deeming me or you a Protestant. There are two types of peoples, saved and unsaved and how easy is that to understand? So when people are behaving themselves regardless of their religious preference and brands anything other then Catholic a Protestant, should it not be a response? Catholic doctrine quarantines non catholic. And if non Catholic that can only mean there is a salvation issue or is it?. SO here we go. How much of Catholic doctrine do we tolerate when it is being injected thru means of Catholic behaving In a un confrontational manner? I say we look at what the word says for questionable doctrine....2 John1:9 Whoever transgresses and does not abide in the doctrine of Christ does not have God. He who abides in the doctrine of Christ has both the Father and the Son.

So what doctrine sets one man as Priest and what doctrines cites all believers are of the Priesthood of God? This is not a pot shot at Catholics mind you. If a Calvinist labels you a Armenian then they are distinguishing themselves from you, If a Muslim labels you a infidel then they are distinguishing themselves from you, If a Christians labels you a heathen then they are distinguishing themselves from you, and If a Catholic labels you a protestant then they are distinguishing themselves from you. BUt what does the bible say? ....Romans 12:3 For I say, through the grace given to me, to everyone who is among you, not to think of himself more highly than he ought to think, but to think soberly, as God has dealt to each one a measure of faith.

This post is attack-able, but isn't everything that addresses the untouchable.

 

[notuptome]

I recently in a most civil manner addressed a respectable Catholic from perceiving me as protestant. I see this as them distinguishing themselves from" not so real Christians". It upset the room as well as some moderators. However I spoke my peace and un-engaged myself from the what could be seen as Catholic bashing. The Bible has no terms or words deeming me or you a Protestant. There are two types of peoples, saved and unsaved and how easy is that to understand? So when people are behaving themselves regardless of their religious preference and brands anything other then Catholic a Protestant, should it not be a response? Catholic doctrine quarantines non catholic. And if non Catholic that can only mean there is a salvation issue or is it?. SO here we go. How much of Catholic doctrine do we tolerate when it is being injected thru means of Catholic behaving In a un confrontational manner? I say we look at what the word says for questionable doctrine....2 John1:9 Whoever transgresses and does not abide in the doctrine of Christ does not have God. He who abides in the doctrine of Christ has both the Father and the Son.

So what doctrine sets one man as Priest and what doctrines cites all believers are of the Priesthood of God? This is not a pot shot at Catholics mind you. If a Calvinist labels you a Armenian then they are distinguishing themselves from you, If a Muslim labels you a infidel then they are distinguishing themselves from you, If a Christians labels you a heathen then they are distinguishing themselves from you, and If a Catholic labels you a protestant then they are distinguishing themselves from you. BUt what does the bible say? ....Romans 12:3 For I say, through the grace given to me, to everyone who is among you, not to think of himself more highly than he ought to think, but to think soberly, as God has dealt to each one a measure of faith.

This post is attack-able, but isn't everything that addresses the untouchable.

The word of God and the Holy Spirit are to divide the truth from the untruth. Hebrews 4:12

For the cause of Christ
Roger