Can you be out of Fellowship with God and still be Saved?

[peacefulbeliever]

faith without works is dead
you cannot hold the both statement...if Christ made us righteous then we are righteous....then you cannot use that statement to address NT saints....

the gift came upon all men unto justification but not all men will be made righteous

Yes right - if Christ made us righteous then we are righteous only because of our faith in Jesus Christ.

when you fall ,from where do you fall ?? when you break fellowship with God who are you in fellowship with? is there a no man's land??? a limbo??? when one confess and is restored ...where is one restored from...???? if in all these situations...fall...break fellowship....sin... one is still saved...how is it you say he will be restored??? if the body is the temple of the HS and you sin ...are you saying God and sin is dwelling in the same temple???

I fall out of fellowship [relationship] with God, the Son and the household of God but I do not "fall" from being a child -

Are you someone's kid? What would you have to do to NOT BE their kid any longer? What would you have to do for your parents to no longer be your parents? Now - I am sure you did things that your parents didn't like and they probably disciplined you - BUT they were still your parents - THAT IS A PARENT/CHILD RRELATIONSHIP/FELLOWSHIP - A FATHER/SON RELATIONSHIP, i.e. FELLOWSHIP.

 

[Viligant_Warrior]

It is disturbing, and is assuredly unbiblical, that anyone proclaiming Christ as Savior and Lord can think they can lose that which they had nothing to do with acquiring in the first place. We do nothing to earn salvation, it being granted by the grace of God through faith in the sacrifice of Christ on the cross and His Resurrection three days later. Nor is our true saving faith something that can be tossed aside like a used candy bar wrapper, a worn-out shirt, or a political philosophy that we outgrow.

True saving faith is proven by the test of fire in our lives, showing us the love, power, mercy, grace, love, and sufficiency of Christ. Once we see that our well-placed trust in Him, the result of the revelation by the Holy Spirit of that truth, who opens our minds and spirits to it so that we may believe, it can never, ever be shaken.

Too many people think that responding to an altar call is "salvation." Therefore, when the person who responds doesn't follow through with life-change and growth in Christlikeness, they assume erroneously that the person has "lost their salvation." The conclusion is absurd. The reality is, simply walking an aisle and saying a prayer is not salvation.

That cannot come by any such simple physical effort. It does not happen unless it is accompanied by sincerity, in that the convert admits to being a sinner in need of a Savior because of being insufficient in self to accomplish such a monumental requirement, confesses in truth and in spirit that Jesus is that Savior, and God accepts that confession as true and sincere. That last element is the one factor that depends upon whether the Holy Spirit indwells the new believer or not.

Only then does salvation occur, and it can never, ever be denied or lost. How am I so sure? Let's use some solid Scripture to prove the point. I go to a smaller font to save space.
First, the Bible indicates that believers are children of God:

• The Spirit himself testifies with our spirit that we are God's children. (Romans 8:16)
• You are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus, (Galatians 3:26)
• Because you are sons, God sent the Spirit of His Son into our hearts, the Spirit who calls out, "Abba, Father." So you are no longer a slave, but a son; and since you are a son, God has made you also an heir. (Galatians 4:6-7)
• But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels, now crowned with glory and honor because He suffered death, so that by the grace of God He might taste death for everyone. In bringing many sons to glory, it was fitting that God, for whom and through whom everything exists, should make the author of their salvation perfect through suffering. (Hebrews 2:9-10)
• And you have forgotten that word of encouragement that addresses you as sons: "My son, do not make light of the Lord's discipline, and do not lose heart when He rebukes you, because the Lord disciplines those He loves, and he punishes everyone He accepts as a son." (Hebrews 12:5-6)
• How great is the love the Father has lavished on us, that we should be called children of God! And that is what we are! The reason the world does not know us is that it did not know Him. (1 John 3:1)
• Dear friends, now we are children of God, and what we will be has not yet been made known. But we know that when He appears, we shall be like him, for we shall see Him as he is. (1 John 3:2)
• This is how we know who the children of God are and who the children of the devil are: Anyone who does not do what is right is not a child of God; nor is anyone who does not love his brother. (1 John 3:10)
• We know that we are children of God, and that the whole world is under the control of the evil one. (1 John 5:19)
• Yet to all who received Him, to those who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God-- (John 1:12)

(To the eternal security skeptic: Please cite one verse in the Bible where God disowns one of His children.)

In addition, the Bible indicates that believers are heirs of God and co-heirs with Christ, according to the promises of God:

• Now if we are children, then we are heirs--heirs of God and co-heirs with Christ, if indeed we share in His sufferings in order that we may also share in his glory. (Romans 8:17)
• If you belong to Christ, then you are Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise. (Galatians 3:29)
• So you are no longer a slave, but a son; and since you are a son, God has made you also an heir. (Galatians 4:7)
• This mystery is that through the gospel the Gentiles are heirs together with Israel, members together of one body, and sharers together in the promise in Christ Jesus. (Ephesians 3:6)
• whom He poured out on us generously through Jesus Christ our Savior, so that, having been justified by His grace, we might become heirs having the hope of eternal life. (Titus 3:6-7)
• Because God wanted to make the unchanging nature of His purpose very clear to the heirs of what was promised, He confirmed it with an oath. (Hebrews 6:17)

(To the eternal security skeptic: Please cite one verse in the Bible where God disinherits a believer. Please cite one verse where God breaks a promise.)

The Bible also says that believers are called by God:

• My sheep listen to My voice; I know them, and they follow Me. I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; no one can snatch them out of My hand. My Father, who has given them to Me, is greater than all; no one can snatch them out of My Father's hand. (John 10:27-29)
• All that the Father gives Me will come to Me, and whoever comes to Me I will never drive away. (John 6:37)
• The promise is for you and your children and for all who are far off--for all whom the Lord our God will call." (Acts 2:39)
• To all in Rome who are loved by God and called to be saints: Grace and peace to you from God our Father and from the Lord Jesus Christ. (Romans 1:7)
• And we know that in all things God works for the good of those who love Him, who have been called according to His purpose. (Romans 8:28)
• For those God foreknew He also predestined to be conformed to the likeness of His Son, that He might be the firstborn among many brothers. And those He predestined, He also called; those He called, He also justified; those He justified, He also glorified. (Romans 8:29-30)
• but to those whom God has called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God and the wisdom of God. (1 Corinthians 1:24)
• For you know that we dealt with each of you as a father deals with his own children, encouraging, comforting and urging you to live lives worthy of God, who calls you into His kingdom and glory. (1 Thessalonians 2:11-12)
• For God did not call us to be impure, but to live a holy life. (1 Thessalonians 4:7)
• With this in mind, we constantly pray for you, that our God may count you worthy of His calling, and that by His power He may fulfill every good purpose of yours and every act prompted by your faith. (2 Thessalonians 1:11)
• but because Jesus lives forever, He has a permanent priesthood. Therefore Hhe is able to save completely those who come to God through Him, because He always lives to intercede for them. (Hebrews 7:24-25)
• Praise be to the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ! In His great mercy He has given us new birth into a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, and into an inheritance that can never perish, spoil or fade--kept in heaven for you, (1 Peter 1:3-4)
• For He chose us in Him before the creation of the world to be holy and blameless in His sight. In love He predestined us to be adopted as His sons through Jesus Christ, in accordance with His pleasure and will--to the praise of His glorious grace, which He has freely given us in the One He loves. (Ephesians 1:4-6)
• I pray also that the eyes of your heart may be enlightened in order that you may know the hope to which He has called you, the riches of His glorious inheritance in the saints, (Ephesians 1:18)
• Jude, a servant of Jesus Christ and a brother of James, To those who have been called, who are loved by God the Father and kept by Jesus Christ: (Jude 1:1)
• They will make war against the Lamb, but the Lamb will overcome them because He is Lord of lords and King of kings--and with Him will be His called, chosen and faithful followers." (Revelation 17:14)
• for the gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable.(Romans 11:29).

(To the eternal security skeptic: Please cite one verse in the Bible where God uncalls a believer.)

The Bible also indicates that believers are chosen by God:

• In Him we were also chosen, having been predestined according to the plan of Him who works out everything in conformity with the purpose of His will, in order that we, who were the first to hope in Christ, might be for the praise of His glory. And you also were included in Christ when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation. Having believed, you were marked in Him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit, (Ephesians 1:11-13)
• If the Lord had not cut short those days, no one would survive. But for the sake of the elect, whom He has chosen, He has shortened them. (Mark 13:20)
• And will not God bring about justice for his chosen ones, who cry out to Him day and night? Will he keep putting them off? (Luke 18:7)
• You did not choose me, but I chose you and appointed you to go and bear fruit--fruit that will last. Then the Father will give you whatever you ask in mM name. (John 15:16)
• If you belonged to the world, it would love you as its own. As it is, you do not belong to the world, but I have chosen you out of the world. That is why the world hates you. (John 15:19)
• Who will bring any charge against those whom God has chosen? It is God who justifies. (Romans 8:33)
• So too, at the present time there is a remnant chosen by grace. (Romans 11:5)
• To them God has chosen to make known among the Gentiles the glorious riches of this mystery, which is Christ in you, the hope of glory. (Colossians 1:27)
• Therefore, as God's chosen people, holy and dearly loved, clothe yourselves with compassion, kindness, humility, gentleness and patience. (Colossians 3:12)
• For we know, brothers loved by God, that He has chosen you, (1 Thessalonians 1:4)
• But we ought always to thank God for you, brothers loved by the Lord, because from the beginning God chose you to be saved through the sanctifying work of the Spirit and through belief in the truth. (2 Thessalonians 2:13)
• Listen, my dear brothers: Has not God chosen those who are poor in the eyes of the world to be rich in faith and to inherit the kingdom he promised those who love Him? (James 2:5)
• who have been chosen according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through the sanctifying work of the Spirit, for obedience to Jesus Christ and sprinkling by His blood: Grace and peace be yours in abundance. (1 Peter 1:2)
• But you are a chosen people, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, a people belonging to God, that you may declare the praises of Him who called you out of darkness into His wonderful light. (1 Peter 2:9)
• They will make war against the Lamb, but the Lamb will overcome them because He is Lord of lords and King of kings--and with Him will be His called, chosen and faithful followers." (Revelation 17:14)
• "For many are invited, but few are chosen." (Matthew 22:14)
  
• They will make war against the Lamb, but the Lamb will overcome them because He is Lord of lords and King of kings--and with Him will be His called, chosen and faithful followers." (Revelation 17:14)

(To the eternal security skeptic: Please cite one verse in the Bible where God unchooses a believer.)

The Bible also says believers are sealed by God for redemption:

• Now it is God who makes both us and you stand firm in Christ. He anointed us, set His seal of ownership on us, and put His Spirit in our hearts as a deposit, guaranteeing what is to come. (2 Corinthians 1:21-22)
• And you also were included in Christ when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation. Having believed, you were marked in Him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit, (Ephesians 1:13)
• And do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, with whom you were sealed for the day of redemption. (Ephesians 4:30)
• Nevertheless, God's solid foundation stands firm, sealed with this inscription: "The Lord knows those who are His," and, "Everyone who confesses the name of the Lord must turn away from wickedness." (2 Timothy 2:19)

(To the eternal security skeptic: Please cite one verse in the Bible where God unseals a believer.)

That should be enough for you doubters of eternal security to deal with for the time being.

 

[kennethcadwell]

The OT believers were imputed righteousness because of their belief and trust in God and in the coming Messiah. Was there a time when people had to live according to the law to the best of their ability and that is how they are judged?
Not sure . . .
"But before faith came" - was there a time before "faith" came? I'm not sure how this "faith" is different but I do know that there was a time "before faith came" - But it seems it would have to do with the "faith of Jesus Christ" if we read the context: But the scripture concluded all under sin, that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe. But before faith came, we were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed. Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ that we might be justified by faith. [Gal. 3:22-24]

Was the "new birth" available before the day of Pentecost?

Being born again is done through baptism, which is a product of our belief in Him.


1 Corinthians 10:1-2


For I do not want you to be unaware, brothers, that our fathers were all under the cloud, and all passed through the sea, and all were baptized into Moses in the cloud and in the sea

 

[gb9]

Here is the big difference between us. I do not accuse everyone of working against Christ. I am confident that the Holy Spirit Who abides in my heart is abiding in the hearts of every believer. The correction and instruction the Holy Spirit gives to me He gives to every believer.

I do not encourage unprofitable works of darkness nor do I suspect that everybody else is working these works. What shall I say of someone who expects in others what they cannot find in themselves? Mathew 23:13

For the cause of Christ
Roger

with 100% roger!! so many people on here automatically jump to the conclusion that we are anti- Jesus anti-Bible if we disagree with them. seems the site has been taken overt by "them"

 

[Jason0047]

Let's get something straight here - I do not like you labeling me. And I never said we are God not even close to it!

I was promised by God eternal life through faith in his Son Jesus Christ. I read that in scripture and I believe it. I am a daughter of God - But as many as received him to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name: which were born, NOT of blood, NOR of the will of man but OF GOD.

If my son or daughter left home and I didn't know where they were - whether they were alive or dead - then when they returned, I would say "Oh - you were gone so long I didn't know if you were alive or dead" - that's how the father considered his son dead. Then I would say: But you are alive and I welcome you home, let's celebrate. I sure wouldn't say - "oh your alive but I am not your mother any longer because you left and squandered your inheritance". The son's sin was choosing to go his own way - he left his father's home, i.e. out of fellowship with his father and family. When he got sick and tired of being sick and tired he came home - humbled himself before his father and his fellowship with his father and his household was restored. His father was always his father . . . always, always. You're saying that "birth" means nothing - that "birth" can be taken away. You're saying that we are not really "born" again of the Spirit -

We are Adam's progeny - we inherited the sin nature from Adam. When Adam fell he became a man of body and soul - no Spirit. Jesus Christ - God's ambassador came to reconcile us back to God [2 Cor. 5:18,19] When we believe on the only begotten Son of God - we are born again of "spirit", that "spirit" [the new man, the new creation] is created within us and that is what reconciles us back to God.

Never said you personally believe you are God in relation to being made in God's image. I was saying others believe that falsely. I was making a comparison. However, if you sin and or break fellowship with God, then you are your own God who serves themselves and not God. Oh, and please take note that I am saying IF you sin with the thinking you are saved do I then condemn you; For it is not wrong to point out evil. For we are not to have fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but we are to rather reprove them.

I mean how in the world do you even watch a movie and make sense out of it? Are bad guys not bad guys by what they do?

 

[notuptome]

Here is the thing though is that God is not going to just give out the Holy Spirit half hazzardly, and He already knows who is His and who isn't. Plus the Holy Spirit is our guide and helper, as in He does not completely control us and take away our free will. So knowing this those who God knows will continue to constantly disobey His teachings I do not believe He will give the Holy Spirit to rather they consider themselves to be Christian. There are many who profess to be Christian, yet they throw away His teachings, continue walking in unrighteousness, and some even act because of uneducated in the scriptures are mislead in a Paulinian doctrine that places Paul with more authority then Jesus Christ....

Wow now you accuse God of acting haphazardly? God never fails in His promises. God has promised to save those who call upon Christ to forgive their sin. God deals with each soul individually. God does not ask you or I what we think about who should be saved and who should be condemned. I have not been appointed to double check Gods work.

I am not responsible for another persons profession of salvation. If they live counter to what Gods word prescribes I am to exhort them to do right but I am never told to condemn them.

Jesus rebuked the religious leaders who oppressed others and did not care to serve Him in their hearts.

Perhaps you should ask yourself why you cannot forgive others as Christ has forgiven you? I have seen many times in my life where those who fought hardest against what they perceived in another person were guilty of the very same thing in their own life.

It really seems best to me that I should allow God to forgive others since I have also received forgiveness by His mercy and grace.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[notuptome]

Being born again is done through baptism, which is a product of our belief in Him.


1 Corinthians 10:1-2


For I do not want you to be unaware, brothers, that our fathers were all under the cloud, and all passed through the sea, and all were baptized into Moses in the cloud and in the sea

Pet doctrine exalted above the bible truth given by inspiration of God. Water baptism is not a prerequisite of Holy Spirit baptism.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[kennethcadwell]

Wow now you accuse God of acting haphazardly? God never fails in His promises. God has promised to save those who call upon Christ to forgive their sin. God deals with each soul individually. God does not ask you or I what we think about who should be saved and who should be condemned. I have not been appointed to double check Gods work.

I am not responsible for another persons profession of salvation. If they live counter to what Gods word prescribes I am to exhort them to do right but I am never told to condemn them.

Jesus rebuked the religious leaders who oppressed others and did not care to serve Him in their hearts.

Perhaps you should ask yourself why you cannot forgive others as Christ has forgiven you? I have seen many times in my life where those who fought hardest against what they perceived in another person were guilty of the very same thing in their own life.

It really seems best to me that I should allow God to forgive others since I have also received forgiveness by His mercy and grace.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

I am not accusing God of acting haphazardly, that is you reading to much into what I said.
And if you do that to what I say, then I can make a guess that you do the same with scriptures. Read to much into them, and place things that are not there in the scripture.
What I said is those who think God gives the Holy Spirit to just anybody and everybody do that, not me !!!

God is not going to give the Holy Spirit to those who He knows will continuously disobey Him.
I do forgive others, and I do not know where you get the understanding from as that was thrown way out of context.
There is a big difference in adding things to people that are not needed to oppress them, and that of giving them the warnings that Jesus and Paul both gave in the bibles. And also teaching others what Jesus said believers will and are to do in order to be saved, and have salvation/eternal life......
It is not adding if it is in the bible, and especially when it is His own Words !!!

If those who teach we do not have to go by His teachings in the gospel books continue that way, they are headed for a major wake up call. As they will be standing wailing and gnashing at their teeth in front of judgment.
We are called to help others in walking properly, and make sure they are headed on the proper path to salvation. To say that you are not responsible is being selfish....
Lord said that when a brother or sister in Christ becomes lost we are charged to go out and bring them back to repentance......

 

[peacefulbeliever]

Here is the thing though is that God is not going to just give out the Holy Spirit half hazzardly, and He already knows who is His and who isn't. Plus the Holy Spirit is our guide and helper, as in He does not completely control us and take away our free will. So knowing this those who God knows will continue to constantly disobey His teachings I do not believe He will give the Holy Spirit to rather they consider themselves to be Christian. There are many who profess to be Christian, yet they throw away His teachings, continue walking in unrighteousness, and some even act because of uneducated in the scriptures are mislead in a Paulinian doctrine that places Paul with more authority then Jesus Christ....

WHAT DOES BORN MEAN?

The holy Spirit is given only to those who believe and confess Jesus as Lord [Rom. 10:9,10] ONLY those that believe and have faith in Jesus Christ are born again of the Spirit.

 

[kennethcadwell]

Pet doctrine exalted above the bible truth given by inspiration of God. Water baptism is not a prerequisite of Holy Spirit baptism.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

Man does not baptize with the Holy Spirit, only the Lord can do that.
We are charged to carry out baptism that consist of immersion in water into His name, as that is how we are buried with Him and then rise as a new creation in the Spirit; as a symbol of His death and resurrection. And the Holy Spirit was administered a couple times before the commanded baptism by the Lord, but does not make is always so, nor does it make baptism of Matthew 28:19, and Mark 16:16 which is immersion in water as voided;

Matthew 28:19
Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,

Mark 16:16
He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.

Acts 2:38
Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost. (Same baptism as Matthew 28:19)


[h=1]Acts 10:47-48
Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we? And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord. Then prayed they him to tarry certain days (Same baptism as Matthew 28:19)[/h]

 

[Jason0047]

It is disturbing, and is assuredly unbiblical, that anyone proclaiming Christ as Savior and Lord can think they can lose that which they had nothing to do with acquiring in the first place. We do nothing to earn salvation, it being granted by the grace of God through faith in the sacrifice of Christ on the cross and His Resurrection three days later. Nor is our true saving faith something that can be tossed aside like a used candy bar wrapper, a worn-out shirt, or a political philosophy that we outgrow.

True saving faith is proven by the test of fire in our lives, showing us the love, power, mercy, grace, love, and sufficiency of Christ. Once we see that our well-placed trust in Him, the result of the revelation by the Holy Spirit of that truth, who opens our minds and spirits to it so that we may believe, it can never, ever be shaken.

Too many people think that responding to an altar call is "salvation." Therefore, when the person who responds doesn't follow through with life-change and growth in Christlikeness, they assume erroneously that the person has "lost their salvation." The conclusion is absurd. The reality is, simply walking an aisle and saying a prayer is not salvation.

That cannot come by any such simple physical effort. It does not happen unless it is accompanied by sincerity, in that the convert admits to being a sinner in need of a Savior because of being insufficient in self to accomplish such a monumental requirement, confesses in truth and in spirit that Jesus is that Savior, and God accepts that confession as true and sincere. That last element is the one factor that depends upon whether the Holy Spirit indwells the new believer or not.

Only then does salvation occur, and it can never, ever be denied or lost. How am I so sure? Let's use some solid Scripture to prove the point. I go to a smaller font to save space.
First, the Bible indicates that believers are children of God:

• The Spirit himself testifies with our spirit that we are God's children. (Romans 8:16)
• You are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus, (Galatians 3:26)
• Because you are sons, God sent the Spirit of His Son into our hearts, the Spirit who calls out, "Abba, Father." So you are no longer a slave, but a son; and since you are a son, God has made you also an heir. (Galatians 4:6-7)
• But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels, now crowned with glory and honor because He suffered death, so that by the grace of God He might taste death for everyone. In bringing many sons to glory, it was fitting that God, for whom and through whom everything exists, should make the author of their salvation perfect through suffering. (Hebrews 2:9-10)
• And you have forgotten that word of encouragement that addresses you as sons: "My son, do not make light of the Lord's discipline, and do not lose heart when He rebukes you, because the Lord disciplines those He loves, and he punishes everyone He accepts as a son." (Hebrews 12:5-6)
• How great is the love the Father has lavished on us, that we should be called children of God! And that is what we are! The reason the world does not know us is that it did not know Him. (1 John 3:1)
• Dear friends, now we are children of God, and what we will be has not yet been made known. But we know that when He appears, we shall be like him, for we shall see Him as he is. (1 John 3:2)
• This is how we know who the children of God are and who the children of the devil are: Anyone who does not do what is right is not a child of God; nor is anyone who does not love his brother. (1 John 3:10)
• We know that we are children of God, and that the whole world is under the control of the evil one. (1 John 5:19)
• Yet to all who received Him, to those who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God-- (John 1:12)

(To the eternal security skeptic: Please cite one verse in the Bible where God disowns one of His children.)

In addition, the Bible indicates that believers are heirs of God and co-heirs with Christ, according to the promises of God:

• Now if we are children, then we are heirs--heirs of God and co-heirs with Christ, if indeed we share in His sufferings in order that we may also share in his glory. (Romans 8:17)
• If you belong to Christ, then you are Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise. (Galatians 3:29)
• So you are no longer a slave, but a son; and since you are a son, God has made you also an heir. (Galatians 4:7)
• This mystery is that through the gospel the Gentiles are heirs together with Israel, members together of one body, and sharers together in the promise in Christ Jesus. (Ephesians 3:6)
• whom He poured out on us generously through Jesus Christ our Savior, so that, having been justified by His grace, we might become heirs having the hope of eternal life. (Titus 3:6-7)
• Because God wanted to make the unchanging nature of His purpose very clear to the heirs of what was promised, He confirmed it with an oath. (Hebrews 6:17)

(To the eternal security skeptic: Please cite one verse in the Bible where God disinherits a believer. Please cite one verse where God breaks a promise.)

The Bible also says that believers are called by God:

• My sheep listen to My voice; I know them, and they follow Me. I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; no one can snatch them out of My hand. My Father, who has given them to Me, is greater than all; no one can snatch them out of My Father's hand. (John 10:27-29)
• All that the Father gives Me will come to Me, and whoever comes to Me I will never drive away. (John 6:37)
• The promise is for you and your children and for all who are far off--for all whom the Lord our God will call." (Acts 2:39)
• To all in Rome who are loved by God and called to be saints: Grace and peace to you from God our Father and from the Lord Jesus Christ. (Romans 1:7)
• And we know that in all things God works for the good of those who love Him, who have been called according to His purpose. (Romans 8:28)
• For those God foreknew He also predestined to be conformed to the likeness of His Son, that He might be the firstborn among many brothers. And those He predestined, He also called; those He called, He also justified; those He justified, He also glorified. (Romans 8:29-30)
• but to those whom God has called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God and the wisdom of God. (1 Corinthians 1:24)
• For you know that we dealt with each of you as a father deals with his own children, encouraging, comforting and urging you to live lives worthy of God, who calls you into His kingdom and glory. (1 Thessalonians 2:11-12)
• For God did not call us to be impure, but to live a holy life. (1 Thessalonians 4:7)
• With this in mind, we constantly pray for you, that our God may count you worthy of His calling, and that by His power He may fulfill every good purpose of yours and every act prompted by your faith. (2 Thessalonians 1:11)
• but because Jesus lives forever, He has a permanent priesthood. Therefore Hhe is able to save completely those who come to God through Him, because He always lives to intercede for them. (Hebrews 7:24-25)
• Praise be to the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ! In His great mercy He has given us new birth into a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, and into an inheritance that can never perish, spoil or fade--kept in heaven for you, (1 Peter 1:3-4)
• For He chose us in Him before the creation of the world to be holy and blameless in His sight. In love He predestined us to be adopted as His sons through Jesus Christ, in accordance with His pleasure and will--to the praise of His glorious grace, which He has freely given us in the One He loves. (Ephesians 1:4-6)
• I pray also that the eyes of your heart may be enlightened in order that you may know the hope to which He has called you, the riches of His glorious inheritance in the saints, (Ephesians 1:18)
• Jude, a servant of Jesus Christ and a brother of James, To those who have been called, who are loved by God the Father and kept by Jesus Christ: (Jude 1:1)
• They will make war against the Lamb, but the Lamb will overcome them because He is Lord of lords and King of kings--and with Him will be His called, chosen and faithful followers." (Revelation 17:14)
• for the gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable.(Romans 11:29).

(To the eternal security skeptic: Please cite one verse in the Bible where God uncalls a believer.)

The Bible also indicates that believers are chosen by God:

• In Him we were also chosen, having been predestined according to the plan of Him who works out everything in conformity with the purpose of His will, in order that we, who were the first to hope in Christ, might be for the praise of His glory. And you also were included in Christ when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation. Having believed, you were marked in Him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit, (Ephesians 1:11-13)
• If the Lord had not cut short those days, no one would survive. But for the sake of the elect, whom He has chosen, He has shortened them. (Mark 13:20)
• And will not God bring about justice for his chosen ones, who cry out to Him day and night? Will he keep putting them off? (Luke 18:7)
• You did not choose me, but I chose you and appointed you to go and bear fruit--fruit that will last. Then the Father will give you whatever you ask in mM name. (John 15:16)
• If you belonged to the world, it would love you as its own. As it is, you do not belong to the world, but I have chosen you out of the world. That is why the world hates you. (John 15:19)
• Who will bring any charge against those whom God has chosen? It is God who justifies. (Romans 8:33)
• So too, at the present time there is a remnant chosen by grace. (Romans 11:5)
• To them God has chosen to make known among the Gentiles the glorious riches of this mystery, which is Christ in you, the hope of glory. (Colossians 1:27)
• Therefore, as God's chosen people, holy and dearly loved, clothe yourselves with compassion, kindness, humility, gentleness and patience. (Colossians 3:12)
• For we know, brothers loved by God, that He has chosen you, (1 Thessalonians 1:4)
• But we ought always to thank God for you, brothers loved by the Lord, because from the beginning God chose you to be saved through the sanctifying work of the Spirit and through belief in the truth. (2 Thessalonians 2:13)
• Listen, my dear brothers: Has not God chosen those who are poor in the eyes of the world to be rich in faith and to inherit the kingdom he promised those who love Him? (James 2:5)
• who have been chosen according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through the sanctifying work of the Spirit, for obedience to Jesus Christ and sprinkling by His blood: Grace and peace be yours in abundance. (1 Peter 1:2)
• But you are a chosen people, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, a people belonging to God, that you may declare the praises of Him who called you out of darkness into His wonderful light. (1 Peter 2:9)
• They will make war against the Lamb, but the Lamb will overcome them because He is Lord of lords and King of kings--and with Him will be His called, chosen and faithful followers." (Revelation 17:14)
• "For many are invited, but few are chosen." (Matthew 22:14)
  
• They will make war against the Lamb, but the Lamb will overcome them because He is Lord of lords and King of kings--and with Him will be His called, chosen and faithful followers." (Revelation 17:14)

(To the eternal security skeptic: Please cite one verse in the Bible where God unchooses a believer.)

The Bible also says believers are sealed by God for redemption:

• Now it is God who makes both us and you stand firm in Christ. He anointed us, set His seal of ownership on us, and put His Spirit in our hearts as a deposit, guaranteeing what is to come. (2 Corinthians 1:21-22)
• And you also were included in Christ when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation. Having believed, you were marked in Him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit, (Ephesians 1:13)
• And do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, with whom you were sealed for the day of redemption. (Ephesians 4:30)
• Nevertheless, God's solid foundation stands firm, sealed with this inscription: "The Lord knows those who are His," and, "Everyone who confesses the name of the Lord must turn away from wickedness." (2 Timothy 2:19)

(To the eternal security skeptic: Please cite one verse in the Bible where God unseals a believer.)

That should be enough for you doubters of eternal security to deal with for the time being.

What's disturbing and unbiblical is that folks think they can do evil with no remorse and still be saved. Also, each of the verses you quote has to ignore other verses within the same book in order for your view to work. I will be happy to refute each one with the context of each book when I have more time.

 

[notuptome]

I am not accusing God of acting haphazardly, that is you reading to much into what I said.
And if you do that to what I say, then I can make a guess that you do the same with scriptures. Read to much into them, and place things that are not there in the scripture.
What I said is those who think God gives the Holy Spirit to just anybody and everybody do that, not me !!!

God is not going to give the Holy Spirit to those who He knows will continuously disobey Him.
I do forgive others, and I do not know where you get the understanding from as that was thrown way out of context.
There is a big difference in adding things to people that are not needed to oppress them, and that of giving them the warnings that Jesus and Paul both gave in the bibles. And also teaching others what Jesus said believers will and are to do in order to be saved, and have salvation/eternal life......
It is not adding if it is in the bible, and especially when it is His own Words !!!

If those who teach we do not have to go by His teachings in the gospel books continue that way, they are headed for a major wake up call. As they will be standing wailing and gnashing at their teeth in front of judgment.
We are called to help others in walking properly, and make sure they are headed on the proper path to salvation. To say that you are not responsible is being selfish....
Lord said that when a brother or sister in Christ becomes lost we are charged to go out and bring them back to repentance......

You just cannot help yourself. You accuse God and you accuse God's people. There is no love evident in what you post. There is no forgiveness in what you post. I can only assume that you were abused and never nurtured in the word of God.

God is longsuffering and patient so there is always hope that you will one day find forgiveness that you might forgive others in the faith.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[peacefulbeliever]

I am not accusing God of acting haphazardly, that is you reading to much into what I said.
And if you do that to what I say, then I can make a guess that you do the same with scriptures. Read to much into them, and place things that are not there in the scripture.
What I said is those who think God gives the Holy Spirit to just anybody and everybody do that, not me !!!

Roger, can you show me where someone has said that "God gives the Holy Spirit to just anybody and everybody"?

God is not going to give the Holy Spirit to those who He knows will continuously disobey Him.
I do forgive others, and I do not know where you get the understanding from as that was thrown way out of context.
There is a big difference in adding things to people that are not needed to oppress them, and that of giving them the warnings that Jesus and Paul both gave in the bibles. And also teaching others what Jesus said believers will and are to do in order to be saved, and have salvation/eternal life......
It is not adding if it is in the bible, and especially when it is His own Words !!!

What I give objection to are not the commandments of God and Christ but to the fact that when a person sins - they have lost the Spirit that God gave them and they have to start all over again as if they were never saved in the first place. This happens each time they sin??????? Is that what it means to be born of the Spirit? Then when they confess - poof God borns them again - they sin then poof God un-borns them . . . and on and on . . . [I know "borns" is not really a word]

If those who teach we do not have to go by His teachings in the gospel books continue that way, they are headed for a major wake up call. As they will be standing wailing and gnashing at their teeth in front of judgment.
We are called to help others in walking properly, and make sure they are headed on the proper path to salvation. To say that you are not responsible is being selfish....
Lord said that when a brother or sister in Christ becomes lost we are charged to go out and bring them back to repentance......

No one is teaching that we to not go by his teachings - yes, we are called to encourage and exhort fellow believers when we see them "living/walking a life of disobedience" to get them back in fellowship. "Path to salvation" - what is that? You are saved by Romans 10:9,10 NOT by how good you are. You are saved and you begin a walk of obedience - Will you always obey? We may be responsible to encourage, edify, and exhort our brethren but we are not responsible for THEIR walk.

 

[notuptome]

Man does not baptize with the Holy Spirit, only the Lord can do that.
We are charged to carry out baptism that consist of immersion in water into His name, as that is how we are buried with Him and then rise as a new creation in the Spirit; as a symbol of His death and resurrection. And the Holy Spirit was administered a couple times before the commanded baptism by the Lord, but does not make is always so, nor does it make baptism of Matthew 28:19, and Mark 16:16 which is immersion in water as voided;

Matthew 28:19
Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,

Mark 16:16
He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.

Acts 2:38
Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost. (Same baptism as Matthew 28:19)


Acts 10:47-48
Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we? And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord. Then prayed they him to tarry certain days (Same baptism as Matthew 28:19)

I already know you idolize water baptism. You do not have the correct understanding of water baptism and Holy Spirit baptism. Water baptism is best illustrated in Acts 8 where Philip baptizes the eunuch. Acts 10 is not the same as the other verses you cite.

Learn what Gods grace is all about, it is not about water baptism. God has mercy, pity on men in their sinful condition. God saves them out of their sin because while they were yet sinners Christ died for them.

No one can ever be good enough to deserve salvation.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[kennethcadwell]

WHAT DOES BORN MEAN?

The holy Spirit is given only to those who believe and confess Jesus as Lord [Rom. 10:9,10] ONLY those that believe and have faith in Jesus Christ are born again of the Spirit.

Romans 10:9-10 says nothing of the administering of the Holy Spirit, that is saying that those who believe and keep their confession in Him will be saved. Acts 5:32 says who the Holy Spirit is given to, and it says to those who obey.

I do not disagree with believing in Him, nor keeping our confession in Him, but to many people have come and taking those two subjects and make them very vague. The bible however tells us in the words of the Lord Himself what it means to believe in Him.


Luke 6:46-49
And why call ye me, Lord, Lord, and do not the things which I say? Whosoever cometh to me, and heareth my sayings, and doeth them, I will shew you to whom he is like: He is like a man which built an house, and digged deep, and laid the foundation on a rock: and when the flood arose, the stream beat vehemently upon that house, and could not shake it: for it was founded upon a rock. But he that heareth, and doeth not, is like a man that without a foundation built an house upon the earth; against which the stream did beat vehemently, and immediately it fell; and the ruin of that house was great.

Matthew 7:21
Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

John 14:15
"If you love Me, you will keep My commandments.

John 14:24
"He who does not love Me does not keep My words; and the word which you hear is not Mine, but the Father's who sent Me.


And what was the words He gave; repentance (Luke 13:3), baptism (Matthew 28:19, Mark 16:16), confession (Matthew 10:32-33), forgiveness (Matthew 6:14-15), doing good to those in need (Matthew 25:34-46), and keep His commandments (John 14:15)
And what was His commandments;

Matthew 22:37
Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.

Matthew 22:39
And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.


Matthew 22:40
On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.

Which means that by following those two, you will follow the rest that was commanded by God.......................

[h=3]The 10 Commandments List[/h]

1. You shall have no other gods before Me.
2. You shall not make idols.
3. You shall not take the name of the LORD your God in vain.
4. Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy.
5. Honor your father and your mother.
6. You shall not murder.
7. You shall not commit adultery.
8. You shall not steal.
9. You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor.
10. You shall not covet.

 

[peacefulbeliever]

"I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service. And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God." (Romans 12:1-2).

We are then told to abhor that which is evil in verse 9. Doesn't sound like OSAS to me.

You are very self righteous, thinking that YOU earn your salvation and YOU are the one that KEEPS your salvation!

I abhor evil just as I believe every born again believer does . . . . I am only honest with myself, with others and with God because I know that I will probably mess up for I still battle with this "old man", i.e. flesh. . . . and God knows that too that is why he says we are in a battle . . . that the Spirit lusteth against the flesh and the flesh lusteth against the Spirit so that I sometimes do not do what I want but the desire to do good is in me.

 

[kennethcadwell]

I already know you idolize water baptism. You do not have the correct understanding of water baptism and Holy Spirit baptism. Water baptism is best illustrated in Acts 8 where Philip baptizes the eunuch. Acts 10 is not the same as the other verses you cite.

Learn what Gods grace is all about, it is not about water baptism. God has mercy, pity on men in their sinful condition. God saves them out of their sin because while they were yet sinners Christ died for them.

No one can ever be good enough to deserve salvation.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

There you go making false allegations again, as I do not idolize water baptism.
I am a supporter of it and adamant about keeping it in teaching because it was a direct command from our Lord, and because of my love for Him I will not sit back and let others do away with it. Just as Peter who emphasized to others that no man can forbid the use of water in baptism because the Lord commanded it. To go against water usage in baptism is to disobey a direct command by the Lord.

 

[peacefulbeliever]

what are you really teaching??? God made Adam a living soul....why are you adding to scripture???
Genesis 2:7
And the Lord God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.

1 Corinthians 15:45
And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.

No offence newbirth but you are really trying my patience . . .

"and man became a living soul" - a living being, a living creature

 

[kennethcadwell]

Roger, can you show me where someone has said that "God gives the Holy Spirit to just anybody and everybody"?

What I give objection to are not the commandments of God and Christ but to the fact that when a person sins - they have lost the Spirit that God gave them and they have to start all over again as if they were never saved in the first place. This happens each time they sin??????? Is that what it means to be born of the Spirit? Then when they confess - poof God borns them again - they sin then poof God un-borns them . . . and on and on . . . [I know "borns" is not really a word]
No one is teaching that we to not go by his teachings - yes, we are called to encourage and exhort fellow believers when we see them "living/walking a life of disobedience" to get them back in fellowship. "Path to salvation" - what is that? You are saved by Romans 10:9,10 NOT by how good you are. You are saved and you begin a walk of obedience - Will you always obey? We may be responsible to encourage, edify, and exhort our brethren but we are not responsible for THEIR walk.

Who said what I highlighted above, as I have not said that.
What I have said is that a true born again believer when they sin will confess that sin to receive remission of it, and cleansed of that unrighteousness. Which is clearly shown in 1 John, and that also shows that future sins are not automatically forgiven from day one of faith in the Lord, when repentance and baptism was done........
Peter and Paul both say that only past sins are covered.....

And as for nobody is teaching that we do not have to go by His teachings is not true, for I have seen a couple on here who have said that. They go by a Paulinian gospel that does away with the Lords teachings, and they only go by what Paul said as if Paul taught differently. Paul only confirmed to the gentile believers what the Lord taught, and Peter and the others carried out......

 

[kennethcadwell]

No offence newbirth but you are really trying my patience . . .

"and man became a living soul" - a living being, a living creature

Genesis 2:7
And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.

Here we have in this scripture it says the breath of life, which in studies shows that it is the spirit that God is putting inside the body to make him a living soul...................
Here, the phrase "breath of life" is translated from the Hebrew phrase נִשְׁמַת־רוּחַ חַיִּים (nishmat ruach chayyim), which ruach is translated spirit.......

James 2:26
For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.