Can you be out of Fellowship with God and still be Saved?

peacefulbeliever · Jan 12, 2015

Romans 10:9-10 says nothing of the administering of the Holy Spirit, that is saying that those who believe and keep their confession in Him will be saved. Acts 5:32 says who the Holy Spirit is given to, and it says to those who obey.

I do not disagree with believing in Him, nor keeping our confession in Him, but to many people have come and taking those two subjects and make them very vague. The bible however tells us in the words of the Lord Himself what it means to believe in Him.

Luke 6:46-49
And why call ye me, Lord, Lord, and do not the things which I say? Whosoever cometh to me, and heareth my sayings, and doeth them, I will shew you to whom he is like: He is like a man which built an house, and digged deep, and laid the foundation on a rock: and when the flood arose, the stream beat vehemently upon that house, and could not shake it: for it was founded upon a rock. But he that heareth, and doeth not, is like a man that without a foundation built an house upon the earth; against which the stream did beat vehemently, and immediately it fell; and the ruin of that house was great.

Matthew 7:21
Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

John 14:15
"If you love Me, you will keep My commandments.

John 14:24
"He who does not love Me does not keep My words; and the word which you hear is not Mine, but the Father's who sent Me.

And what was the words He gave; repentance (Luke 13:3), baptism (Matthew 28:19, Mark 16:16), confession (Matthew 10:32-33), forgiveness (Matthew 6:14-15), doing good to those in need (Matthew 25:34-46), and keep His commandments (John 14:15)
And what was His commandments;

Matthew 22:37
Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.

Matthew 22:39
And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

Matthew 22:40
On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.

Which means that by following those two, you will follow the rest that was commanded by God.......................

The 10 Commandments List

You shall have no other gods before Me.
You shall not make idols.
You shall not take the name of the LORD your God in vain.
Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy.
Honor your father and your mother.
You shall not murder.
You shall not commit adultery.
You shall not steal.
You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor.
You shall not covet.

How are we born again according to the gospel of kennethcadwell?

Were the people in the gospels born again?

And if one does Matt. 22:37,39 all the other commandments will be fulfilled in them. Will they mess up? Will someone who is made righteous sometimes do those things that are unrighteous? If the holy Spirit is "un-born" and "deserts" them then what convicts a person to forgiveness to restore them to fellowship?

Oh you didn't answer my question - What does born mean?

notuptome · Jan 12, 2015

kennethcadwell said:

Quite the contrary you do idolize water baptism. You elevate it above Holy Spirit baptism and that makes it an idol before the Lord. There are no commands of Christ to be water baptized. Holy Spirit baptism is received the moment we believe because we are sealed thereby unto eternal life.

This is not the first time you have litigated this on the forums. You are not allowing the scriptures to form your doctrine but using your doctrine to shape your understanding of the scriptures.

It all goes back to the question of forgiveness. Can you allow God to forgive you without you doing anything to deserve the forgiveness? True repentance is saying not my will but Your will be done to God our Father.

God can and will forgive first that He might nurture us in the faith. God does not expect us to be born again as mature believers but rather as babes who need Him to care for us. God delights in caring for His children.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

peacefulbeliever · Jan 12, 2015

kennethcadwell said:

"What I have said is that a true born again believer when they sin will confess that sin to receive remission of it, and cleansed of that unrighteousness." - And who has said that they shouldn't?

You are not posting with those who deny we need to ask forgiveness - What does it mean to you to "confess our sins"? Do you mean we have to list each and every one and specifically address each one or at the end of the day can we just say - God please forgive any sin that I may have committed against you today . . . .

Right now you are talking to notuptome and me - Have either one of us said that we must not humble ourselves and ask for forgiveness to restore fellowship? Let me be specific for I [not speaking for notuptome] do not believe that we have to ask forgiveness to be "saved again" or should I say to be "born again again" but to restore fellowship - maybe I am one whom you are talking about!

BradC · Jan 12, 2015

Jason0047 said:

What they are saying Jason, IF YOU WILL LISTEN, is that they have been saved by grace but are not perfect and without the potential of sin. When we receive God's righteousness by faith and we are cleansed by the blood of Christ we have been made postionally perfect in Christ (Col 2:10). Experientially we are becoming what God has made us to be positionally, holy and without blame, without spot or wrinkle that we might be presented to Christ (Eph 5:27). However, that will never fully happen or take place until we are able to put on our new glorified body, like unto His. We are in Christ, some 80+ times in the book of Ephesians. We are seated together in heavenly places in Christ. We have been raised with Christ. These verbs are all in the perfect tense, meaning that it was a past completed act, or in the aorist tense as a punctiliar action that took place in the past that was initiated by God. Both of these tenses refer to the action of the verb not having to be repeated over again. The action has been established and can not be undone.

The prodigal son on his return, in Luke 15, was made alive again, being dead and out of fellowship with the Father and his house. He absolutely had a devastating time with sin experientially because the way of the transgressor is hard. But when he came back he was restored to everything that he had walked away from positionally when he left (the best robe - a festive robe of honor that is full and worn by kings in rank as royalty, the ring - & the shoes - which represented his position as a free man). The fact that all was restored to him points to the truth that he had not been forsaken nor had he lost a single thing that he had with the Father. The elder brother was not happy with the mercy and celebration that his younger brother was showed by the Father and his house and refused to celebrate with the others. He did not think his younger brother deserved this kind of reception, full of mercy, grace and acceptance. Is not this the way we should receive those who backslide and then come to their senses and return to the Father and his house with no probation and not demand that they get saved all over again, instead we are happy to see that they are safe and sound.

kennethcadwell · Jan 12, 2015

peacefulbeliever said:

No you do not have to put a face and name on every single sin you do in order for it to be forgiven as some have come to make it out to be. Even King David gave us an example of how to pray for sins we have done, but did not recognize;

[h=1]Psalm 19:12-13[/h]12 Who can understand his errors?
Cleanse me from secret faults.
13 Keep back Your servant also from presumptuous sins;
Let them not have dominion over me.
Then I shall be blameless,
And I shall be innocent of great transgression

newbirth · Jan 12, 2015

peacefulbeliever said:

how many sins did Ananias and Sapphira commit to be smitten...this was an example for us...but some of us take the Lord God for granted because of his mercy...
if you are out of fellowship with God( because of disobedience)...where are you?if you remain in that position....are you in obedience or disobedience....if you should die in that state....would you say you died in obedience to God?

Ephesians 5:5-9King James Version (KJV)
[SUP]5 [/SUP]For this ye know, that no whoremonger, nor unclean person, nor covetous man, who is an idolater, hath any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God.
[SUP]6 [/SUP]Let no man deceive you with vain words: for because of these things cometh the wrath of God upon the children of disobedience.
[SUP]7 [/SUP]Be not ye therefore partakers with them.
[SUP]8 [/SUP]For ye were sometimes darkness, but now are ye light in the Lord: walk as children of light:
[SUP]9 [/SUP](For the fruit of the Spirit is in all goodness and righteousness and truth

kennethcadwell · Jan 12, 2015

peacefulbeliever said:

Being born again is not through faith/belief as that is done at hearing the word, and accepting its truth.
Being born again is through baptism, as you are buried with Him in His death by being immersed in water in His name, and then you rise in His resurrection by emerging from the water into the spirit. With this and your repentance toward your sins you become born again. You are not born again from day one of acceptance, before those acts are done.

peacefulbeliever · Jan 12, 2015

kennethcadwell said:

"and man became a living soul" - nephash - soul, self, life, creature, person, appetite, mind, living being, desire, emotion, passion; that which breathes, the breathing substance or being, soul, the inner being of man; living being; living being (with life in the blood); the man himself, self, person or individual, seat of the appetites, seat of emotions and passions; activity of mind [dubious]; activity of the will [dubious]; activity of character [dubious]

breath - neshamah - breath, spirit; breath (of God); breath (of man); every breathing thing; spirit (of man)
life - chay - (adj) living, alive A. green (of vegetation) B. flowing, fresh (of water); C. lively, active (of man); D. reviving (of the springtime) (n m) relatives; life (abstract emphatic) A. life; B. sustenance, maintenance (n f) living thing, animal A. animal; B. life C. appetite D. revival, renewal; 5. community

kennethcadwell · Jan 12, 2015

notuptome said:

Wrong as man does not baptize with the Holy Spirit, our Lord Jesus does that.
But He is not going to give the Holy Spirit to somebody He knows is not going to obey His teachings and commands. So your false assumption again of bearing false witness against me needs to be confessed in your prayers tonight to receive remission of it. For bearing false witness on others is dangerous to a believers growth and spiritual salvation, as even Paul makes it clear that no liars will inherit the kingdom. This is not condemning you my brother, as this is a warning to abstain from what you are doing. Just as Paul warned believers in the bible to abstain from lies ......

I am following scriptures and I showed you exactly how Matthew 28:19 and Mark 16:16 was water immersion.
For if it were not then water would not have been continued to be used in the book of Acts by Peter, Paul, and the rest of the Apostles. So to reject water usage in baptism, is reject His command........

peacefulbeliever · Jan 12, 2015

kennethcadwell said:

What about the believers in Acts 10? Was that just a one time occurrence? They heard, they believed, they received. . . in that order and I do believe that is how we receive the holy Spirit today.

By the way what does born mean? and were the people in the gospels born again?

kennethcadwell · Jan 12, 2015

peacefulbeliever said:

But you are neglecting the rest of that phrase from the Hebrew, and are leaving out ruach, for the whole phrase there in Hebrew is נִשְׁמַת־רוּחַ חַיִּים (nishmat ruach chayyim), which ruach is translated spirit.......

You would not even be walking around as a living human being if you did not have a spirit in you, the bible makes it clear the body you have would be dead if there was no spirit.......

notuptome · Jan 12, 2015

kennethcadwell said:

Firstly I never claimed that man baptized with the Holy Spirit. Secondly who are you to tell God what He is going to do or not do? There is no way for you to judge in the matter of another mans salvation. Still you accuse others and God because they do not agree with you.

Mathew 28:19 is clearly not water baptism. Mark 16:16 is questionable as to its validity as scripture. It is not wise to tempt the Lord with snakes and poison. You are simply propping up doctrine that is not scriptural. Poor little golden calf that cannot speak.

When you learn to receive the Lords forgiveness then you will learn how to forgive others. Rome's stain is deep and hard to cleanse.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

kennethcadwell · Jan 12, 2015

peacefulbeliever said:

You mentioned Acts 10, so take a look at verses 47-48 as Peter commanded those men to be baptized by immersion in water to complete there process of being born again into Christ. The Lord knew these men would be obedient, and gave them the Holy Spirit, so Peter carried out the rest of their being born again process as commanded by the Lord to him.....
Peter lets it be know in those verses that no man can forbid the water immersion baptism commanded by the Lord. Showing that Holy Spirit given by the Lord, does not cancel out the baptism we as men are charged to do........

We are still called to administer that one baptism, as immersed into water in His name is the only baptism man can do.
The Lord gives the Holy Spirit, not man...........

newbirth · Jan 12, 2015

notuptome said:

now look carefully I predicted this and it has come to pass..there is no more preaching of repentance . baptism , remission of sins and gift of the HS to enter in to the kingdom of God....just believe and receive...

it seems that obeying scripture is now become a sin...everyone is forming their own doctrine...

and doctrine of man is the order of the day...no more repent and be baptised....just say not my will

sin sin sin and God will forgive.....like he did Ananias and Sapphira...

Viligant_Warrior · Jan 12, 2015

Jason0047 said:

That's a logical fallacy, and has no place in the discussion. Simply because I know sin does not separate me from God does not mean I'm going to go out automatically and commit sin, thinking I have a free pass.

You love your wife. She loves you. If you knew there was nothing that could make her stop loving you, would you feel free to have an illicit affair? The thought is repulsive and ludicrous.

In the same way, one must love God even more than one loves a spouse, in order to surrender one's life to Him for salvation, justification, and sanctification. It is just as ludicrous to think one could accept the love of either a spouse or God and violate it in the worst possible way. So please, let's drop the pretense that anyone loving God and surrendering to Him would use that love as license to sin. It is a false assumption.

And if anyone would claim to be saved and sin licentiously, then that one is obviously not saved and never has been. Keep the discussion rational, please.

kennethcadwell · Jan 12, 2015

notuptome said:

There you go again reading more into what I said !!!

Is explaining things to you in biblical terms going to sink in yet. I am not telling God what to do, as I use scripture to show who He says He gives the Holy Spirit to. If you do not like those scriptures, then you need to talk to Him in prayer and not make false allegations toward me.
I do not judge another's salvation, what I do is take and help others to make sure they are walking properly in the faith. Which this is what we are called to do, if you believe you were not called to help others get stronger in their faith and make sure they are walking properly then you have skipped over almost half of Paul's writings in his epistles.

Matthew 28:19 is water baptism, as the same word used here is the same as in Mark 16:16.....Baptizo !!!

[TABLE="width: 100%"]
[TR]
[TD="colspan: 2"][TABLE="width: 100%"]
[TR]
[TD="width: 50%"]bap-tid'-zo [/TD]
[TD="width: 50%"][/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="colspan: 2"] Definition[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="colspan: 2"]

to dip repeatedly, to immerse, to submerge (of vessels sunk)
to cleanse by dipping or submerging, to wash, to make clean with water, to wash one's self, bathe
to overwhelm

You can try to take the water part out all you want, but by going with what Peter, and Paul did in Acts shows that water was never omitted from baptism. That and Peter puts an emphasis in Acts 10:47 that no man can forbid water usage in baptism. I have received the word, which is why He has shown me water is still part of baptism. And you take and contradict yourself in your own response........

You said this;

" Firstly I never claimed that man baptized with the Holy Spirit "

Then you said this;

" Mathew 28:19 is clearly not water baptism "

Well if you are in agreement that man does not baptize with the Holy Spirit, which all should be in agreement with. Then Matthew 28:19 has to be an immersion in water, for this was commanded to the apostles/disciples to do. And there is no other way of baptizing.......

[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

kennethcadwell · Jan 12, 2015

Viligant_Warrior said:

That's a logical fallacy, and has no place in the discussion. Simply because I know sin does not separate me from God does not mean I'm going to go out automatically and commit sin, thinking I have a free pass.

You love your wife. She loves you. If you knew there was nothing that could make her stop loving you, would you feel free to have an illicit affair? The thought is repulsive and ludicrous.

In the same way, one must love God even more than one loves a spouse, in order to surrender one's life to Him for salvation, justification, and sanctification. It is just as ludicrous to think one could accept the love of either a spouse or God and violate it in the worst possible way. So please, let's drop the pretense that anyone loving God and surrendering to Him would use that love as license to sin. It is a false assumption.

And if anyone would claim to be saved and sin licentiously, then that one is obviously not saved and never has been. Keep the discussion rational, please.

Isaiah 59:2

But your iniquities have separated between you and your God, and your sins have hid his face from you, that he will not hear.

Viligant_Warrior · Jan 12, 2015

kennethcadwell said:

There you go again reading more into what I said !!!

Is explaining things to you in biblical terms going to sink in yet. I am not telling God what to do, as I use scripture to show who He says He gives the Holy Spirit to. If you do not like those scriptures, then you need to talk to Him in prayer and not make false allegations toward me.
I do not judge another's salvation, what I do is take and help others to make sure they are walking properly in the faith. Which this is what we are called to do, if you believe you were not called to help others get stronger in their faith and make sure they are walking properly then you have skipped over almost half of Paul's writings in his epistles.

Matthew 28:19 is water baptism, as the same word used here is the same as in Mark 16:16.....Baptizo !!!

[TABLE="width: 100%"]
[TR]
[TD="colspan: 2"][TABLE="width: 100%"]
[TR]
[TD="width: 50%"]bap-tid'-zo[/TD]
[TD="width: 50%"][/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="colspan: 2"] Definition[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="colspan: 2"]

to dip repeatedly, to immerse, to submerge (of vessels sunk)
to cleanse by dipping or submerging, to wash, to make clean with water, to wash one's self, bathe
to overwhelm

You can try to take the water part out all you want, but by going with what Peter, and Paul did in Acts shows that water was never omitted from baptism. That and Peter puts an emphasis in Acts 10:47 that no man can forbid water usage in baptism. I have received the word, which is why He has shown me water is still part of baptism. And you take and contradict yourself in your own response........

You said this;

" Firstly I never claimed that man baptized with the Holy Spirit "

Then you said this;

" Mathew 28:19 is clearly not water baptism "

Well if you are in agreement that man does not baptize with the Holy Spirit, which all should be in agreement with. Then Matthew 28:19 has to be an immersion in water, for this was commanded to the apostles/disciples to do. And there is no other way of baptizing.......

[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

Grossly

kennethcadwell · Jan 12, 2015

Viligant_Warrior said:

Actually it is not off topic, as everything the Lord told us to do is part of our fellowship with Him.
And there are some of those who want to cancel out things the Lord said, this would then place you out of fellowship with Him do to your disobedience to His teachings and commands.......

Viligant_Warrior · Jan 12, 2015

kennethcadwell said:

The doctrine of regenerational water baptism is a false doctrine that the Lord never mentioned. Claiming a thousand times that regenerational water baptism is valid won't make it any less false than it is now.

kennethcadwell said:

Wrong. But as there is no convincing you of that, I'll move one. God bless.

Can you be out of Fellowship with God and still be Saved?

Can you be out of Fellowship with God and still be Saved?

Yes.

No.

I don't know.

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