Can you be out of Fellowship with God and still be Saved?

[kennethcadwell]

You know I have a really big question, that goes along with the great commission.
I have seen a number of people want to cancel out part, half, or all of what the Lord said in Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John as not applied to us.....And their response is that we are under the gospel of grace, so nobody denies that we are to follow the gospel message of grace. Well here is my question to them who take parts away:

You do know that Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John are called the gospel books ?

 

[Jason0047]

Yes, you can be out of fellowship and still love God. If your faith has been shifted by some doctrine or teaching away from the work of the cross, then you are out of fellowship with God even though you love Him. If continued, may lead to further distance from Him and even being bound by sin.

Please ignore my last post. It appears you are not in support of OSAS.

Sorry about that. It appears I misunderstood what you said here.

 

[Jason0047]

For if there is one thing that gets me really in a state of righteous anger, it is folks condoning a sin and still be saved type doctrine. In other words, I take a dim view in people ignoring basic morality. If you do evil as a way of life, you are the villian in the story of life and not the good guy.

 

[Jason0047]

OSAS promotes a lifestyle of sin. For if there is no real lasting consequence to one's sin, then why does one have to change? Why does one have to say they are sorry about their sin to God? There is no reason to if you believe you are Once Saved for all time. In other words, if there is no major consequence in people breaking the Laws within their country, then more people would break the Law. For many people do not break the Law because they do not want to face the consequences in breaking it.

 

[Jason0047]

In other words, who would you rather have in watching your kids? The baby sitter who thinks they can sin and still be saved? or the baby sitter who thinks that doing wrong could potentially put at risk their very soul (If they refuse to repent of it)?

To put it to you another way, the OSAS proponent who thinks they can sin and still be saved is not a person of moral integrity. In fact, it doesn't matter if an OSAS proponent lives a holy life, if they teach others that they can sin and still be saved, then they are promoting that others can live however they please (with no real lasting consequences).

 

[Reborn]

Come to your conclusions on the topic at hand...then I'm worthy of debate?
Stop Jason, seriously.
When are you going to realize that the Bible isn't a code to be cracked?
Where is your faith brother?
OSAS is a trust that we have in God, that can not be explained.

WE CAN NOT DEBATE OPINIONS MAN!

You have this obsessive need to be heard and agreed with....but you don't realize or notice, you are down to a few who will debate you now.
You pushed the rest away by not listening.

I will leave.........

Good luck I guess.

 

[newbirth]

Come to your conclusions on the topic at hand...then I'm worthy of debate?
Stop Jason, seriously.
When are you going to realize that the Bible isn't a code to be cracked?
Where is your faith brother?
OSAS is a trust that we have in God, that can not be explained.

WE CAN NOT DEBATE OPINIONS MAN!

You have this obsessive need to be heard and agreed with....but you don't realize or notice, you are down to a few who will debate you now.
You pushed the rest away by not listening.

I will leave.........

Good luck I guess.

OSAS is a false sense of security......one person could not believe Ananias and Sapphira were struck down for lying...where was OSAS then....if it did not work for them it's not gonna work for you...

 

[peacefulbeliever]

So I can cheat on my wife cause I'm saved and no matter what I'm saved. Don't tell the first united bank this. It's you and mine secret okay.

I hope you are being sarcastic . . .

 

[peacefulbeliever]

You can not take and cancel out the people in that the Lord was talking to in gospel books, just because you want to say they were not born of the Spirit yet. That is the wrong approach to going at that.

I am not taking out our cancelling out anyone BUT someone, anyone cannot be born again of the Spirit unless it was available. The new birth, Christ in you the hope of glory, began on Pentecost.

The Lord was teaching them the milk of the gospel, the first steps that a believer in Him are to take and then gave some insight on the rest of our walk. That He then left up to Paul to give the meat of the word.
But all that the Lord taught in the gospels was for all of us, not just for Israel or those who came before Pentecost........

Yep, all scripture is profitable for doctrine, reproof and correction [2 Timothy 3:16] and whatsoever things written aforetime were written for our learning [Romans 15:4].
We know this because most to all of those teachings was given to the Apostles, which He then commissioned to go out and teach the rest of us to obey all that He taught them. Those who teach His words were only for Israel, or those before Pentecost teach falsely. For even after Pentecost the Apostles still carried out those same teachings, they did not do away with them !!![/QUOTE]
Where do you think all the confusion comes from? The OT says one thing - the gospels say another - then the Epistles say something else - throw that all together and that is why there is no like-mindedness in believers. I am not saying ANY of God's word should be thrown away, discarded for all of it was written for our learning. There are three classifications of people - Jew, Gentile and church of God.

Only in this dispensation do we have the Spirit of God and the Spirit of Christ dwelling in us via the gift of holy Spirit - we are born again of God's Spirit - that is a big difference. There is a difference between Spirit being upon you or with you then being IN you.

 

[Jason0047]

Come to your conclusions on the topic at hand...then I'm worthy of debate?
Stop Jason, seriously.
When are you going to realize that the Bible isn't a code to be cracked?
Where is your faith brother?
OSAS is a trust that we have in God, that can not be explained.

WE CAN NOT DEBATE OPINIONS MAN!

You have this obsessive need to be heard and agreed with....but you don't realize or notice, you are down to a few who will debate you now.
You pushed the rest away by not listening.

I will leave.........

Good luck I guess.

What is interesting is that you have not offered any substantial verses for OSAS. You also have not explained to me how OSAS is moral and good. Oh, and yes, it is something that needs to be figured out. Because people just blindly believe something that is not actually in the Bible. On the contrary, there are many verses that refute OSAS. You did not come to the belief in OSAS on your own reading of the Bible. Most people have learned OSAS from a man (Who is a false teacher). You don't want to believe otherwise. Hence, why you are leaving.

 

[peacefulbeliever]

What you are saying is that you can have your cake and eat it, too. Meaning you can have God and partake of your sin, too. Your can serve two masters if you like. God and sin. But it doesn't work like that, though. For Jesus said you cannot serve two masters. For you will hate the one and love the other.

NO ONE IS ADVOCATING SERVING THE DEVIL . . . I hate sin . . . I LOVE GOD. Do I sin occasionally? Yes I do and so do you. When you sin are you SERVING THE DEVIL [being his servant] or do you STILL LOV GOD and hate what you did? There is a BIG difference here.

 

[peacefulbeliever]

What I posted from Luke 6:47 has to do with salvation/eternal life also, as the Lord Jesus clearly says in verse 46 why do you call Him your Lord if you do not do what He said.
Can one still get eternal salvation by denying to follow all that He said, I think not. For that shows as He put forth that if He is your Lord you would do as He said.......

You can not claim Jesus to be your Lord and then deny doing His teachings, yet some continue to want to cancel out part, half, and even all of what He said. All three show no true faith and love in Him of those who do that.

NO ONE IS DENYING OBEDIENCE . . . You are not distinguishing between receiving salvation, a gift given through faith of Jesus Christ by God's grace, becoming born into a family, the household of God as a son or daughter and the WALK [obedience] that follows.

 

[Jason0047]

OSAS is a false sense of security......one person could not believe Ananias and Sapphira were struck down for lying...where was OSAS then....if it did not work for them it's not gonna work for you...

I have heard OSAS proponent's excuse on this one before. They say that this was only physical death and not spiritual death. But this cannot be because fear fell upon the whole church and everyone who heard about it. So if Ananias and Sapphira were saved and went to Paradise, then why was everyone in the church so afraid over their deaths if they knew they went to Heaven? The excuses at this point become non-sensical and irrational. They are willing to go to great lengths to believe OSAS even if the Bible says otherwise.

Acts 5:11
"And great fear came upon all the church, and upon as many as heard these things."

 

[Jason0047]

NO ONE IS ADVOCATING SERVING THE DEVIL . . . I hate sin . . . I LOVE GOD. Do I sin occasionally? Yes I do and so do you. When you sin are you SERVING THE DEVIL [being his servant] or do you STILL LOV GOD and hate what you did? There is a BIG difference here.

Choose this day whom ye will serve. You said before that a person can be out of fellowship with God (Which is obviously because of their sin) with the thinking that they are still be saved; But now you are hopping the fence on the good guy's side and talking another story. Whose side are you on? God's side or the devil's side? God is never going to condone His people in doing evil under any circumstance. That is what OSAS is all about. That once you are saved, you do not need to worry about sin because you are forever saved. I have heard OSAS proponents claim that beleivers are saved even if they commit suicide. That is sick. What that means is that you do not have to fight the good fight or run the race. According to OSAS you can just end your life now and be with God. But it doesn't work like that, though. Judas was not saved. He was called the son of perdition; And Judas knew what he did wrong (Because he said he betrayed innocent blood). Judas was sorrowful for what he did. He was sorry all right. Sorry he got caught. Sorry it did not work out the way he wanted. But he was not sorrowful towards God.

 

[Jason0047]

NO ONE IS DENYING OBEDIENCE . . . You are not distinguishing between receiving salvation, a gift given through faith of Jesus Christ by God's grace, becoming born into a family, the household of God as a son or daughter and the WALK [obedience] that follows.

As I said before, there are different levels of OSAS. OSAS Lite teaches that if you do not live a holy life, then you were never saved to begin with. Is this what you believe?

While it is still a false teaching, it is a belief that does promote holy living as a requirement for knowing God and His salvation. Hence, why I can say that that these types of OSAS proponents are my only brothers and sisters. Maybe you are talking about a temporary time where the believer has fallen out of fellowship and has repented in coming back to the faith (With God knowing their future free will choices in being righteous and holy for His Kingdom up until the point of their deaths). Is that what you are trying to say?

I guess what I am trying to say is do you think a person can be rebellious towards God and then die and still be saved?

 

[peacefulbeliever]

1 John 2:1 and 1 John 1:6-9 do apply to salvation and not to some so called walk as you woulld like it to be. First, 1 John 1:9 says we are actually cleansed of unrighteousness by confessing. 1 John 5:17 says all unrighteousness is sin. So 1 John 1:9 is saying you are being cleansed of sin if you confess. This runs contrary to the false OSAS teaching that says all your future sin is forgiven magically somehow. Also, OSAS believers claim they have the blood by their belief on Jesus Christ. Yet 1 John 1:7 says the blood only cleanses us from all sin if we walk in the light as he is in the light. Light here is in reference to righteousness and or obedience to God's commands (See 1 John 2:3-6).

You seem not to see all the references of WALK in scripture . . .

God and His Word are incorruptible. You are not incorruptibe. You can still sin and fall into corrupton. So you are not free from being incorruptible. That would be double talk non sense to make such a claim. When a person is born again of incorruptible seed, it is speaking about God's seed. A spiritual regeneration and washing. There is nothing in Scripture that states that a believer cannot fall prey to corruption. I have already provided a list of believers who have forfeited their salvation within this thread.

You are correct - I am not incorruptible - I didn't say that I was incorruptible.

I am still in my flesh, the old man nature, I am still carnal sold under sin.

Yes, you are correct again - the incorruptible seed is God's seed - Spirit.

That is the new man created in righteousness and true holiness [Eph. 4:24], the new man renewed in knowledge after him [God] who created him. [Colossians 3:10] And sometimes we may do things that we really don't want to do which cannot touch that new man, that divine nature [2 Peter 1:4], that incorruptible seed within us - for something that is incorruptible cannot be corrupted.

As for your reference to cute phrases about being born again - again: The reality is that if somebody is dead spiritually, they need a spiritual rebirth, whether they are an unbeliever or whether they are a believer who has backslidden into sin whereby they can be converted back to the faith thru confession or repentance (See James 5:19-20; 1 John 2:1, 1 John 1:9).

As for your 2 Timothy 4 quote: Well, you can say that you have fought the good fight. That is all fine and dandy. But if you teach that a believer can be out of fellowship with God and still be saved, then you are teaching that people can sin and still be saved. So it doesn't matter if you confess your sins and live like a saint or not. Your doctrine is going to place blood on your hands for telling people it is okay that they can think they can be out of fellowship (by sinning) with the thinking they are saved.

You do not understand the meaning of being "born" again.

My walk with God - say I am on the highway - this highway has white lines that I should stay between - I am going along fine but then I cross over one of the white lines and I am out of balance until I bring myself back between the lines - that is our walk but NOTHING separates us from the love of Christ. Did I lose my love for God and love for others, my faith in Christ because I crossed over the white line? Think about it - when you sin do you stop loving God? I hope not. God sees our failures and our faults before anything even happens . . . He knows that we are but dirt! He loves us anyway and knows those that are his.

"telling people it is okay that they can think they can be out of fellowship (by sinning) with the thinking they are saved." I hope that others are understanding what I am saying BETTER than you are.

 

[Jason0047]

I hope you are being sarcastic . . .

What you fail to understand is that there are people who actually believe they can do horrible acts of sin, then immediately die and still make it into heaven. I have heard someone personally tell me they can take a submachine gun and kill a bunch of people, then die, and make it into heaven. Someone within this thread personally admitted to me that they could sin and still be saved. This is Classic OSAS; And this is the type of evil I am up against. People have been duped into thinking they can do evil in God's name.

 

[notuptome]

No, please stop lying. You minimize sin. You don't acknowledge sin and you don't feel you have to confess it so as to be cleansed of all unrighteous as 1 John 1:9 says. You believe all your future sins are forgiven. So you don't need to worry about sin. It can never eternally effect you according to your Theology. But that is not what the Bible teaches. Acting like there is no problem just makes the problem worse. A true believer will always be humble before the Lord like in the Parable of the Tax Collector and the Pharisee (See Luke 18:9-14).

You are extremely judgmental and apparently unable to receive forgiveness. It appears that you are endeavoring to merit Gods forgiveness.

Gods forgiveness in His grace is beyond measure. Gods love for His creation is beyond measure. You cause me to wonder what it is that you got in the matter of salvation because it does not seem to line up with the bible.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[notuptome]

You do know that Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John are called the gospel books ?

So what? Who named them?

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[notuptome]

What you fail to understand is that there are people who actually believe they can do horrible acts of sin, then immediately die and still make it into heaven. I have heard someone personally tell me they can take a submachine gun and kill a bunch of people, then die, and make it into heaven. Someone within this thread personally admitted to me that they could sin and still be saved. This is Classic OSAS; And this is the type of evil I am up against. People have been duped into thinking they can do evil in God's name.

You appear to have a very dark imagination. Why do you dwell on such things? You create fantastic straw men and then with great imaginary valor slay them with your own wisdom. If you repeat the inane things that other people say in the absence of meaningful thought will you not be thought to be the same? Philippians 4:8 Think on things that have virtue in Christ.

For the cause of Christ
Roger