It Is satanic Heresy to Deny Eternal Security

[Atwood]

No im sure in context of the whole book of Hebrews...where the whole issue of turning from grace back to the law....is the very issue of the whole book to the "Hebrews"
And the sin of unbelief is the "sin" at issue throughout the whole of the epistle...

Heb 3:12 Take heed, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief, in departing from the living God.

Well, take a look at Heb 13 and see if you still think that the only sin addressed is that of unbelief.

Now look again at the passage:

"Not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as the manner of some is; but exhorting one another: and so much the more, as ye see the day approaching. For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins, But a certain fearful looking for of judgment . . . ."

If there is no reference to the sin of forsaking the assembly and if vs 26 is not giving a reason for not forsaking the assembly, how you account for the word For?

 

[Atwood]

Then I guess the Holy Spirit has no more to say to you through me, about how any sin you put before God and walk in will lead you that .

Since the Spirit gave the Word of God in scripture, and since your doctrine is contrary to God's word, and since you apparently deny that it is proper for a man to trust the Lord Jesus to save him, it is an abomination for you to claim that the Spirit is speaking through you.

But know that you are responsible for all the Bible which has been quoted your way.

 

[Mitspa]

Well, take a look at Heb 13 and see if you still think that the only sin addressed is that of unbelief.

Now look again at the passage:

"Not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as the manner of some is; but exhorting one another: and so much the more, as ye see the day approaching.For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins, But a certain fearful looking for of judgment . . . ."

If there is no reference to the sin of forsaking the assembly and if vs 26 is not giving a reason for not forsaking the assembly, how you account for the word For?

Don't see nothing in chapter 13 that would make me question in any way what the clear intention is in chapter 10.... the willful sin is clearly the sin of unbelief ...turning back to the law of Moses...which is the whole point of the book of Hebrews...Jews going back to the law (the strength of sin)


whatsoever is not of faith is sin...the law is not of faith.

 

[Atwood]

Don't see nothing in chapter 13 that would make me question in any way what the clear intention is in chapter 10.... the willful sin is clearly the sin of unbelief ...turning back to the law of Moses...which is the whole point of the book of Hebrews...Jews going back to the law (the strength of sin)

whatsoever is not of faith is sin...the law is not of faith.

I was recommending ch 13 for you to see if there were other sins besides unbelief in Hebrews. I don't object to seeing lack of faith as the master sin, but if one is enumerating specific sins, there surely are other sins mentioned in Hebrews, and ch 13 is one such place, inasmuch as Heb 13 gets real practical.

 

[SeaBass]

Link: Presbytery of Middle Tennessee votes yes on gay marriage

"An amendment changing the church's definition of marriage squeaked through a Presbytery of Middle Tennessee vote on Saturday, as local Presbyterians became some of the first in the nation to help decide the issue."

Supporting homosexuality cause one to be lost?

 

[SeaBass]

What!!! who has even suggested that faith is not needed? can you post that or are you just trying to deflect from the real issue? Being that those who demand others "doubt" salvation ...do not understand faith. How much doubt do we have to add to our faith before some of you can call it faith? Let me guess...the same doubt you have?

I have asked: is belief a condition to salvation?

 

[SeaBass]

You guys who are trying to "earn" salvation are not supposed to have confidence and assurance in salvation...because your rejecting the true faith and the truth of Gods words.....you should doubt your salvation!


Ro 10:3 For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God.

Obedient to God's will does not earn God's grace but God has made those necessary obedient works a part of His grace.

In Rom 10:3 those Jews were lost for they would not submit/obey the righteousness/commandments of God. And submitting/obeying God's commands does not earn salvation.

 

[SeaBass]

Romans 10:9-10

Believe in accordance what the scriptures teach of Christ. Not just believe what you want to believe.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

Then belief is a CONDITION to salvation meaning salvation is not UNconditional as Eternal Securists claim it is.

 

[SeaBass]

You guys who are trying to cause others to accept "doubt" as a condition of faith...have NO authority nor are you called of God...no one should listen you guys!

There is no "doubt" that that the bible teaches salvation is conditional.

 

[notuptome]

Obedient to God's will does not earn God's grace but God has made those necessary obedient works a part of His grace.

In Rom 10:3 those Jews were lost for they would not submit/obey the righteousness/commandments of God. And submitting/obeying God's commands does not earn salvation.

Apostate double talk. Gods grace is not contingent upon man. Gods grace is contingent upon God alone. Grace is Gods mercy or pity upon the most unworthy.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[SeaBass]

Apostate double talk. Gods grace is not contingent upon man. Gods grace is contingent upon God alone. Grace is Gods mercy or pity upon the most unworthy.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

God's grace is not unconditional else all men would be saved, Tts 2:11.

Receiving grace is contingent upon men obeying God just as receiving God's gracious healing was contingent upon Naaman obeying God's will.

God does not randomly decide who will or will not receive His grace, but His grace is received by the obedient.

 

[AtonedFor]

Gods grace is not contingent upon man.
Gods grace is contingent upon God alone.
Grace is Gods mercy or pity upon the most unworthy.

Yes, grace is Gods mercy or pity upon the most unworthy.

However, man must co-operate with God's grace,
and not just lie down and fall asleep until he/she dies!

The BAC has been enabled to co-operate with God's grace!
Foist of oil, he/she has been given the free-will to choose to do so.
And he/she has been given a new nature and the indwelling Holy Spirit.

Therefore, it makes perfect sense when we read all over the NT that:
God's continuing grace is contingent upon man!

IMO, this will make perfect sense to just about everyone here, except you.

Factoids: All spiritual truth comes only via spiritual revelation from God.
NO spiritual revelation from the Lord, then NO receiving of spiritual truth.
And God determines if (and when) He reveals spiritual truth to someone.
The major blockade from one receiving God's spiritual truth concerning
a particular topic/subject/doctrine is UNBELIEF and lack of openness.
That's why the teaching of false doctrine is so disastrous!

 

[notuptome]

God's grace is not unconditional else all men would be saved, Tts 2:11.

Receiving grace is contingent upon men obeying God just as receiving God's gracious healing was contingent upon Naaman obeying God's will.

God does not randomly decide who will or will not receive His grace, but His grace is received by the obedient.

It is the height of lunacy to endeavor to discuss grace with a man who denies the abiding presence of the Holy Spirit in believers.

You simply have no credibility on the subject.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[notuptome]

Then belief is a CONDITION to salvation meaning salvation is not UNconditional as Eternal Securists claim it is.

There is no way for you to comprehend the subject without the Holy Spirit Whom you deny. You have not one shred of credibility upon which to base any assertions. You can only provide apostate double talk.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[notuptome]

Yes, grace is Gods mercy or pity upon the most unworthy.

However, man must co-operate with God's grace,
and not just lie down and fall asleep until he/she dies!

The BAC has been enabled to co-operate with God's grace!
Foist of oil, he/she has been given the free-will to choose to do so.
And he/she has been given a new nature and the indwelling Holy Spirit.

Therefore, it makes perfect sense when we read all over the NT that:
God's continuing grace is contingent upon man!

IMO, this will make perfect sense to just about everyone here, except you.

Factoids: All spiritual truth comes only via spiritual revelation from God.
NO spiritual revelation from the Lord, then NO receiving of spiritual truth.
And God determines if (and when) He reveals spiritual truth to someone.
The major blockade from one receiving God's spiritual truth concerning
a particular topic/subject/doctrine is UNBELIEF and lack of openness.
That's why the teaching of false doctrine is so disastrous!

It is Christ Who ministers our salvation not us. Mark 10

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[eternally-gratefull]

God's continuing grace is contingent upon man!

If this is true, then it is not grace at all, it must be earned. Period. Grace is givenn to people who have not earned it (that is why it is called mercy, or unmerited)

IMO, this will make perfect sense to just about everyone here, except you.

It would never make sense to anyone open to truth, and who understand what the word grace means.

It will only make sense to people who want to puff themselves up, and not humble themselves.

 

[Atwood]

God's grace is not unconditional else all men would be saved, Tts 2:11.

Titus 2:11 does not prove your theory, SeaBass.

Receiving grace is contingent upon men obeying God just as receiving God's gracious healing was contingent upon Naaman obeying God's will.

Grace precedes salvation: For by grace you have been saved through faith. But the unsaved man does not obey God at all. For there is none who does good, no not one. Salvation converts the disobeyer to an obeyer from being a disobeyer. Salvation is required to become an obeyer.

There is nothing in the Naaman story about a contingency for salvation. So it doesn't prove your point. Naaman is not said to receive eternal life nor a transformation from sinner to saint for obeying anything.

So prove your claim from the Bible or retract.

God does not randomly decide who will or will not receive His grace, but His grace is received by the obedient.

And what is your proof of the above?

Moreover, did someone post that God makes random decisions here? If grace depended upon works-obedience, then grace would not be grace. But let's see you try to prove your claims.

But as to the topic here,
Scripture is clear that whosoever believes in the Son of God never perishes, but has everlasting life. And it is clear that grace by God & faith by man precede salvation. If you want to theorize on whether or not God's grace results in man's faith, have at it. But be careful to quote chapter & verse. But it is not necessary to solve that problem to get a new birth yourself.

Believe on the Lord Jesus, & you shall be saved.
Thou shalt call His name Jesus, for He shall save His people from their sins.

The inheritance is incorruptible & undefiled & fades not away.

Now don't come back by inserting words or demanding words that are not in the text. Yes, it doesn't say, "you don't have to eat yeast & drink shoe polish first so you rise & shine." And don't then claim that the absence of the negation proves something.

he love of God hath been shed abroad in our hearts through the Holy Spirit which was given unto us. For while we were yet weak, in due season Christ died for the ungodly. For scarcely for a righteous man will one die: for peradventure for the good man some one would even dare to die. But God commendeth his own love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.
Much more then, being now justified by his blood,
we shall be saved from the wrath of God through him. For if, while we were enemies, we were reconciled to God through the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled,
we shall be saved by his life;
and not only so, but we also rejoice in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, through whom we have now received the reconciliation.

 

[SeaBass]

It is the height of lunacy to endeavor to discuss grace with a man who denies the abiding presence of the Holy Spirit in believers.

You simply have no credibility on the subject.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

So being unable to deal with the issues at hand you resort to personal attacks.

--the Holy Spirit would not literally indwell in those that teach false teachings such as eternal security.

--many, if not most, on this forum claim they have a literal indwelling of the Holy Spirit but look at all the arguing, confusion, disagreements, contradictions and false teachings being spread on this forum alone.

--you cannot prove, even if your life depended upon it, that the Holy Spirit is literally dwelling in you. Does sin literally 'dwell' in you, Rom 7:17? Will the Holy Spirit literally dwell where sin is? No.

 

[Atwood]

look at all the arguing, confusion, disagreements, contradictions and false teachings being spread on this forum alone.

Only in a cult (IMHO) is their near uniformity of doctrine. But it is the case there that the administration is tolerant, and apparently believes in a high measure of freedom of speech.

you cannot prove, even if your life depended upon it, that the Holy Spirit is literally dwelling in you.

How do you know that?
Prove your assertion, or retract.

The Christian has the proof to himself from within. As to proving it to other persons, they can get some idea by the fruit produced (love, joy peace), but there is no way I know of for a Christian to prove to someone else that the Spirit is in him.

Does sin literally 'dwell' in you, Rom 7:17? Will the Holy Spirit literally dwell where sin is? No.

Literally? I don't see how you could say literal when we discuss Sin in the abstract.

Sin dwells in the Old Me, the flesh, the Old Man. But flesh here is not the Body, but the Old Adamic Nature. The Christian has two egos, two I's, as in Romans 7. The Holy Spirit dwells in the body of the Christian, not in his Old Man. His good me wills to do good.

For that which I do I know not: for not what I would, that do I practise; but what I hate, that I do. 16 But if what I would not, that I do, I consent unto the law that it is good. 17 So now it is no more I that do it, but sin which dwelleth in me. 18 For I know that in me, that is, in my flesh, dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me, but to do that which is good is not. 19 For the good which I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I practise. 20 But if what I would not, that I do, it is no more I that do it, but sin which dwelleth in me. 21 I find then 14the law, that, to me who would do good, evil is present. 22 For I delight in the law of God after the inward man: 23 but I see a different law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity under the law of sin which is in my members. 24 Wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me out of the body of this death? 25 18I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then I of myself with the mind, indeed, serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.

What is confusing & part of Paul's difficult to understand passages is that "the body of this death" and the "members" are also expressions referring to the Old Man flesh, not the physical body. Passage does not say "members of my body." As in Colossians, "members" is another expression for the Old Man flesh as in members which are upon the earth, which are described in Colossians similarly to flesh in Gal 5, not merely physical matters. Evidently prophet Paul calls flesh also the Body of Sin because the flesh acts like a body for sin, an instrument for action.


Compare Colossians 3 with Gal 5:

Put to death therefore your members which are upon the earth: fornication, uncleanness, passion, evil desire, and covetousness, which is idolatry; 6 for which things’ sake cometh the wrath of God upon the sons of disobedience: 7 wherein ye also once walked, when ye lived in these things; 8 but now do ye also put them all away: anger, wrath, malice, railing, shameful speaking out of your mouth: 9 lie not one to another; seeing that ye have put off the old man with his doings, 10 and have put on the new man, that is being renewed unto knowledge after the image of him that created him:

But until you get your new birth by trusting the Savior, I doubt you will understand the psychology of the Christian.

 

[SeaBass]

Titus 2:11 does not prove your theory, SeaBass.

Tts 2:11 "For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men,"

So if God's grace is unconditional then there is no reason all men will not be saved.

Grace precedes salvation: For by grace you have been saved through faith. But the unsaved man does not obey God at all. For there is none who does good, no not one. Salvation converts the disobeyer to an obeyer from being a disobeyer. Salvation is required to become an obeyer.

There is nothing in the Naaman story about a contingency for salvation. So it doesn't prove your point. Naaman is not said to receive eternal life nor a transformation from sinner to saint for obeying anything.

Receiving grace is salvation, one does not receive grace and yet remain unsaved....and no verses say the unsaved person cannot obey God. Those in Acts 2 Peter preached to were unsaved, yet they could hear understand and obey what Peter commanded them. If unsaved men cannot obey then it made no sense for Peter to give unsaved men commands to obey.


Naaman receiving God's grace was conditional upon his obeying to be healed, yet his obeying earned him nothing.
Men receiving God's grace is conditional upon men obeying to be saved, yet man's obeying earns him nothing either.


The same principle applies in both cases and you cannot find a way to get around it. There is no sound, logical biblical basis to think Naaman's obedience to God did not earn him anything yet my obedience to God would earn me something. This is nothing but a theological bias to find away to get around Naaman's example.

So prove your claim from the Bible or retract.



And what is your proof of the above?

Moreover, did someone post that God makes random decisions here? If grace depended upon works-obedience, then grace would not be grace. But let's see you try to prove your claims.

But as to the topic here,
Scripture is clear that whosoever believes in the Son of God never perishes, but has everlasting life. And it is clear that grace by God & faith by man precede salvation. If you want to theorize on whether or not God's grace results in man's faith, have at it. But be careful to quote chapter & verse. But it is not necessary to solve that problem to get a new birth yourself.

Believe on the Lord Jesus, & you shall be saved.
Thou shalt call His name Jesus, for He shall save His people from their sins.

The inheritance is incorruptible & undefiled & fades not away.

Now don't come back by inserting words or demanding words that are not in the text. Yes, it doesn't say, "you don't have to eat yeast & drink shoe polish first so you rise & shine." And don't then claim that the absence of the negation proves something.

he love of God hath been shed abroad in our hearts through the Holy Spirit which was given unto us. For while we were yet weak, in due season Christ died for the ungodly. For scarcely for a righteous man will one die: for peradventure for the good man some one would even dare to die. But God commendeth his own love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.
Much more then, being now justified by his blood,
we shall be saved from the wrath of God through him. For if, while we were enemies, we were reconciled to God through the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled,
we shall be saved by his life;
and not only so, but we also rejoice in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, through whom we have now received the reconciliation.

If God randomly decides who will or will not be saved, then God is culpable for the lost and there is no reason for a gospel or for man to believe that gospel if salvation is based upon randomness and not the gospel message. Why would John 3:16 say "whosoever" if it is purely random as to who will not perish?


Again, Naaman did a work and that means, according to you, God's grace had NOTHING to do with it at all!! Naaman healed himself no grace needed!

Mt 1:21 still does not have the word "unconditional" in it so why do you ADD that idea to God's word?

! Pet 1:1-4 Peter is writing to the elct, to Christians and to those that are in and conditionally remain in this elect group then the inheritance is incorruptible, and undefiled, and that fadeth not away, reserved in heaven for you".

The "you" at the end of the verse refers to those that are conditionally in the group Christian and does not refer to individual unconditionally outside the elect group. One can become unfaithful and fall from the elect group, the inheritance remains incorruptible and undefiled and reserved in heaven for those that conditionally remain in the group but no longer reserved for the one that falls from the group.