Done Away?
- Thread starter Hizikyah
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Hebrews 4:14, "Seeing then that we have a great High Priest Who has ascended into the heavens: Yahshua the Son of Yahweh, let us hold fast our profession."
Hebrews 7:11-12, "Now if perfection had been attainable through the Levitical priesthood (for under it the people received the law), what further need would there have been for another priest to arise after the order of Melchizedek, rather than one named after the order of Aaron? For the priesthood being changed, there is made of necessity a change also of the law."
3331. metathesis
Strong's Concordance
metathesis: a change, removal
Original Word: μετάθεσις, εως, ἡ
Part of Speech: Noun, Feminine
Transliteration: metathesis
Phonetic Spelling: (met-ath'-es-is)
Short Definition:change, transformation, removal
Definition: (a) change, transformation, (b) removal.
Greek Word Study (Transliteration-Pronunciation Etymology & Grammar)
1) transfer: from one place to another 2) to change 2a) of things instituted or established
—Thayer's (New Testament Greek-English Lexicon)
From G3346; transposition, that is, transferral (to heaven), disestablishment (of a law):—change, removing, translation.
Psalm 89:26-37, "He will call out to Me; You are my Father, O Yahweh! You are the Rock of my salvation! And I will make Him My firstborn, higher than the kings of the earth. My mercy I will keep for Him forever and My covenant will stand fast with Him. And I will establish his Seed forever, and his throne will be as the days of heaven. Should his children forsake My Law, and refuse to walk in My judgments; Should they profane My statutes, and fail to keep My commandments; Then I will punish their transgression with the rod, and their iniquity with lashes from the whip. Nevertheless, My lovingkindness I will not utterly withdraw from him, nor will I ever betray My faithfulness. My covenant I will not break, nor will I change what that has gone out of My lips. Once for all, I have vowed by My holiness--I cannot lie, and I say to David: His Seed will endure forever, and his throne will endure before Me like the sun. His throne will be established forever like the moon: the faithful witness in the sky."
Hebrews 4:14, "Seeing then that we have a great High Priest Who has ascended into the heavens: Yahshua the Son of Yahweh, let us hold fast our profession."
3331 - metathesis 1) transfer: from one place to another
John 5:24, "Most certainly I tell you, he who hears my word, and believes him who sent me, has eternal life, and doesn't come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life."
Mattithyah 28:20, “Teaching them to observe all things that I have commanded you. And lo, I am with you always, to the end of the age."
Mattithyah 24:35, “Heaven and earth may pass away, but My teachings will not pass away.
Yahchanan (John) 14:26, "But the Comforter--the Holy Spirit which Yahweh will send in My Name will teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatever I have said to you."
Matt 5:18, "For truly I say to you; Unless heaven and earth passes away, one yodh--the smallest of the letters--will in no way pass from the Law, until all things are perfected."
John 12:48, "He who rejects Me, and does not follow My words has One Who judges him. The word that I have spoken, the same will be used to judge him in the last day."
Matt 5:18, "For truly I say to you; Unless heaven and earth passes away, one yodh--the smallest of the letters--will in no way pass from the Law, until all things are perfected."
Revelation 21:1-2, "And I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away, and there was no more sea. And I, Yahchanan, saw the holy city, Yahweh Shammah, coming down from Yahweh out of heaven, prepared as brides adorned for their husbands. And I heard a great voice out of heaven, saying: Behold, the tabernacle of Yahweh is with men, and He will dwell with them, and they will be His people, and Yahweh Himself will be with them, and be their Father."
Hebrews 7:11-12, "Now if perfection had been attainable through the Levitical priesthood (for under it the people received the law), what further need would there have been for another priest to arise after the order of Melchizedek, rather than one named after the order of Aaron? For the priesthood being changed, there is made of necessity a change also of the law."
3331. metathesis
Strong's Concordance
metathesis: a change, removal
Original Word: μετάθεσις, εως, ἡ
Part of Speech: Noun, Feminine
Transliteration: metathesis
Phonetic Spelling: (met-ath'-es-is)
Short Definition:change, transformation, removal
Definition: (a) change, transformation, (b) removal.
Greek Word Study (Transliteration-Pronunciation Etymology & Grammar)
1) transfer: from one place to another 2) to change 2a) of things instituted or established
—Thayer's (New Testament Greek-English Lexicon)
From G3346; transposition, that is, transferral (to heaven), disestablishment (of a law):—change, removing, translation.
Psalm 89:26-37, "He will call out to Me; You are my Father, O Yahweh! You are the Rock of my salvation! And I will make Him My firstborn, higher than the kings of the earth. My mercy I will keep for Him forever and My covenant will stand fast with Him. And I will establish his Seed forever, and his throne will be as the days of heaven. Should his children forsake My Law, and refuse to walk in My judgments; Should they profane My statutes, and fail to keep My commandments; Then I will punish their transgression with the rod, and their iniquity with lashes from the whip. Nevertheless, My lovingkindness I will not utterly withdraw from him, nor will I ever betray My faithfulness. My covenant I will not break, nor will I change what that has gone out of My lips. Once for all, I have vowed by My holiness--I cannot lie, and I say to David: His Seed will endure forever, and his throne will endure before Me like the sun. His throne will be established forever like the moon: the faithful witness in the sky."
Hebrews 4:14, "Seeing then that we have a great High Priest Who has ascended into the heavens: Yahshua the Son of Yahweh, let us hold fast our profession."
3331 - metathesis 1) transfer: from one place to another
John 5:24, "Most certainly I tell you, he who hears my word, and believes him who sent me, has eternal life, and doesn't come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life."
Mattithyah 28:20, “Teaching them to observe all things that I have commanded you. And lo, I am with you always, to the end of the age."
Mattithyah 24:35, “Heaven and earth may pass away, but My teachings will not pass away.
Yahchanan (John) 14:26, "But the Comforter--the Holy Spirit which Yahweh will send in My Name will teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatever I have said to you."
Matt 5:18, "For truly I say to you; Unless heaven and earth passes away, one yodh--the smallest of the letters--will in no way pass from the Law, until all things are perfected."
John 12:48, "He who rejects Me, and does not follow My words has One Who judges him. The word that I have spoken, the same will be used to judge him in the last day."
Matt 5:18, "For truly I say to you; Unless heaven and earth passes away, one yodh--the smallest of the letters--will in no way pass from the Law, until all things are perfected."
Revelation 21:1-2, "And I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away, and there was no more sea. And I, Yahchanan, saw the holy city, Yahweh Shammah, coming down from Yahweh out of heaven, prepared as brides adorned for their husbands. And I heard a great voice out of heaven, saying: Behold, the tabernacle of Yahweh is with men, and He will dwell with them, and they will be His people, and Yahweh Himself will be with them, and be their Father."
Law-centered theology does have a way of making the simple complicated.
What was transferred?
The Priesthood.
From what to what?
From the Levitical line to the Royal Line of Judah, and from an earthly temple to the Heavenly Temple.
Did descendants from the Royal Line of Judah EVER serve in the Old Covenant?
No.
Who made the change in the priesthood?
God did, by an oath on Himself.
And when HE changed the priesthood, HE also, by necessity, changed the Law that was in place. It really is so simple!
So even if you try to pull the root word fallacy and use 'transfer' instead of change, it's not an either/or, it's a both/and: a transfer in the Priesthood which resulted in a change of the Law.
Torah after the Cross is simply this: Believe on the One God has sent and love one another.
If one is loving others they are not murdering, stealing, etc.
Any part of the Old covenantal system that God still thinks is important is fulfilled by love (see your Romans 13 passage above in full).
Gone are the parts of the Law designed to keep Israel separate from the world - as those in Christ we are now to go out INTO the world to spread the Good News of the Work of Christ!
We are to be recognized in our set-apartness by our love and good deeds (works of service) toward others, not by rote observance of the edicts of an obsolete covenant.
It is so clear when you view the Scriptures through the lens of the Work of Christ!
-JGIG
What was transferred?
The Priesthood.
From what to what?
From the Levitical line to the Royal Line of Judah, and from an earthly temple to the Heavenly Temple.
Did descendants from the Royal Line of Judah EVER serve in the Old Covenant?
No.
Who made the change in the priesthood?
God did, by an oath on Himself.
And when HE changed the priesthood, HE also, by necessity, changed the Law that was in place. It really is so simple!
So even if you try to pull the root word fallacy and use 'transfer' instead of change, it's not an either/or, it's a both/and: a transfer in the Priesthood which resulted in a change of the Law.
Torah after the Cross is simply this: Believe on the One God has sent and love one another.
If one is loving others they are not murdering, stealing, etc.
Any part of the Old covenantal system that God still thinks is important is fulfilled by love (see your Romans 13 passage above in full).
Gone are the parts of the Law designed to keep Israel separate from the world - as those in Christ we are now to go out INTO the world to spread the Good News of the Work of Christ!
We are to be recognized in our set-apartness by our love and good deeds (works of service) toward others, not by rote observance of the edicts of an obsolete covenant.
It is so clear when you view the Scriptures through the lens of the Work of Christ!
-JGIG
John (Yahchanan) 14:6, "Yahshua proclaimed to him: I am the way, the truth, and the life; no man comes to the Father, except through Me."
John 7:16-17 "Yahshua answered, them, and said: My doctrine is not Mine, but His Who sent Me. If any man will do His will, he will know about this teaching--whether it comes from Yahweh, or whether I am speaking of My own authority."
John 5:24, "Most certainly I tell you, he who hears my word, and believes him who sent me, has eternal life, and doesn't come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life."
John 12:48, "He who rejects Me, and does not follow My words has One Who judges him. The word that I have spoken, the same will be used to judge him in the last day."
Psalm 89:26-37, "He will call out to Me; You are my Father, O Yahweh! You are the Rock of my salvation! And I will make Him My firstborn, higher than the kings of the earth. My mercy I will keep for Him forever and My covenant will stand fast with Him. And I will establish his Seed forever, and his throne will be as the days of heaven. Should his children forsake My Law, and refuse to walk in My judgments; Should they profane My statutes, and fail to keep My commandments; Then I will punish their transgression with the rod, and their iniquity with lashes from the whip. Nevertheless, My lovingkindness I will not utterly withdraw from him, nor will I ever betray My faithfulness. My covenant I will not break, nor will I change what that has gone out of My lips. Once for all, I have vowed by My holiness--I cannot lie, and I say to David: His Seed will endure forever, and his throne will endure before Me like the sun. His throne will be established forever like the moon: the faithful witness in the sky."
John 12:48, "He who rejects Me, and does not follow My words has One Who judges him. The word that I have spoken, the same will be used to judge him in the last day."
John (Yahchanan) 14:6, "Yahshua proclaimed to him: I am the way, the truth, and the life; no man comes to the Father, except through Me."
John 7:16-17 "Yahshua answered, them, and said: My doctrine is not Mine, but His Who sent Me. If any man will do His will, he will know about this teaching--whether it comes from Yahweh, or whether I am speaking of My own authority."
John 5:24, "Most certainly I tell you, he who hears my word, and believes him who sent me, has eternal life, and doesn't come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life."
John 12:48, "He who rejects Me, and does not follow My words has One Who judges him. The word that I have spoken, the same will be used to judge him in the last day."
John (Yahchanan) 14:6, "Yahshua proclaimed...no man comes to the Father, except through Me."
John 7:16-17 "Yahshua answered, them, and said: My doctrine is not Mine, but His Who sent Me. If any man will do His will, he will know about this teaching--whether it comes from Yahweh, or whether I am speaking of My own authority."
John 5:24, "Most certainly I tell you, he who hears my word, and believes him who sent me, has eternal life, and doesn't come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life."
John 12:48, "He who rejects Me, and does not follow My words has One Who judges him. The word that I have spoken, the same will be used to judge him in the last day."
Psalm 89:26-37, "He will call out to Me; You are my Father, O Yahweh! You are the Rock of my salvation! And I will make Him My firstborn, higher than the kings of the earth. My mercy I will keep for Him forever and My covenant will stand fast with Him. And I will establish his Seed forever, and his throne will be as the days of heaven. Should his children forsake My Law, and refuse to walk in My judgments; Should they profane My statutes, and fail to keep My commandments; Then I will punish their transgression with the rod, and their iniquity with lashes from the whip. Nevertheless, My lovingkindness I will not utterly withdraw from him, nor will I ever betray My faithfulness. My covenant I will not break, nor will I change what that has gone out of My lips. Once for all, I have vowed by My holiness--I cannot lie, and I say to David: His Seed will endure forever, and his throne will endure before Me like the sun. His throne will be established forever like the moon: the faithful witness in the sky."
John 12:48, "He who rejects Me, and does not follow My words has One Who judges him. The word that I have spoken, the same will be used to judge him in the last day."
John (Yahchanan) 14:6, "Yahshua proclaimed to him: I am the way, the truth, and the life; no man comes to the Father, except through Me."
John 7:16-17 "Yahshua answered, them, and said: My doctrine is not Mine, but His Who sent Me. If any man will do His will, he will know about this teaching--whether it comes from Yahweh, or whether I am speaking of My own authority."
John 5:24, "Most certainly I tell you, he who hears my word, and believes him who sent me, has eternal life, and doesn't come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life."
John 12:48, "He who rejects Me, and does not follow My words has One Who judges him. The word that I have spoken, the same will be used to judge him in the last day."
John (Yahchanan) 14:6, "Yahshua proclaimed...no man comes to the Father, except through Me."
Yep.
It's all through Christ and His Work on the Cross, the Resurrection, the Ascension, and His Perfect Permanent High Priesthood of the New Covenant, the covenant which is now in place with its Permanent High Priesthood by the power of an indestructible Life and an oath from God.
-JGIG
It's all through Christ and His Work on the Cross, the Resurrection, the Ascension, and His Perfect Permanent High Priesthood of the New Covenant, the covenant which is now in place with its Permanent High Priesthood by the power of an indestructible Life and an oath from God.
\o/ \o/ \o/ \o/ \o/ \o/ \o/
-JGIG
Romans 3:28, "For we maintain that a person is justified by faith apart from the works of the Law."
Romans 3:31, "Are we then doing away with the Law through the faith? By no means! Rather, we establish the Law!"
Romans 6:1-2, "What shall we say then? Are we to continue in sin that grace may abound? By no means!How can we who died to sin still live in it?"
Romans 7:7 What? Can anyone therefore say that the Law is sin? No! By no means! But to the contrary, I did not know sin; transgression of the Law, except through the Law, for I did not know lust, unless the Law had said: Do not covet.
12 Therefore the Law is holy, and the commandments are holy, and just, and righteous.
13 Did that which is righteous, then, become death to me? By no means! But in order that sin might be recognized as sin, it produced death in me through that which was righteous, so that through the commandments, sin might become utterly sinful.
14 For we know that the Law is spiritual; but I was carnal, sold into the power of sin.
16 And if I did what I did not want to do, I agreed that the Law is righteous.
17 As it was, it was no longer I myself who did it, but it was sin living in me.
22 For I delight in the Law of Yahweh according to the inward man;
23 But I saw another law at work in the members of my body, waging war against the Law in my mind, and bringing me into captivity of the law of sin, which is in my members.
25 Thanks be to Yahweh, I have deliverance through Yahshua Messiah our King! So then, with this same mind, I myself serve the Law of Yahweh, while in the flesh that is yet subject to the law of sin.
Romans 8:2 Because through Yahshua Messiah, the Law of the Spirit has set me free from the law of sin and death.
Romans 7:14 For we know that the Law is spiritual; but I was carnal, sold into the power of sin.
Romans 8:3 For what the Law was powerless to do, in that men sought to defeat; overthrow, fit, Yahweh did by sending His own Son in the likeness of sinful man, to bear witness against sin. And so He condemned the sins of all mankind."
1Jn 3:4 Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.
Romans 7:14 For we know that the Law is spiritual; but I was carnal, sold into the power of sin.
Romans 8:5-8, "For those who live according to the flesh, set their minds on the things of the flesh; but those who live according to the Spirit, set their minds on the things of the Spirit. For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace. Because the carnal mind is enmity against; (bitterly opposed to), Yahweh; for it his not subject to the Law of Yahweh, nor indeed can be. So then, those who are of the flesh cannot please Yahweh."
Revelation 14:12, "In this manner are the saints purified--by keeping the Laws of Yahweh, (in conformity) with the faith in Yahshua Messiah."
Matt 7:12, "So then, whatever you desire that others would do to and for you, even so do also to and for them, for this is (sums up) the Law and the Prophets."
2 Timothy 3:5, "Having a form of holiness, but denying the authority of it--from such turn away!"
Mattithyah 22:37-40, "Yahshua said to him: You must love Yahweh your Father with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your might. This is the first and greatest commandment. And the second is like it: You shall love your neighbor as yourself. On these two commandments hang all the Law and the Prophets."
Romans 13:9-10, "For the commandments: You shall not commit adultery, You shall not murder, You shall not steal, You shall not bring false testimony, You shall not covet, and all other commandments are summed up in these Laws; namely: You must love your neighbor as yourself. Love does no wrong to a neighbor; therefore love is the fulfilling of the law."
1 Yahchanan 5:2-3, "By this we know that we love the children of Yahweh: When we love Yahweh by keeping His Laws. For this is the love of Yahweh: That we keep His Law, and His Law is not grievous."
1785 - entolé - Definition: an ordinance, injunction, command, law.
Romans 3:31, "Are we then doing away with the Law through the faith? By no means! Rather, we establish the Law!"
Romans 6:1-2, "What shall we say then? Are we to continue in sin that grace may abound? By no means!How can we who died to sin still live in it?"
Romans 7:7 What? Can anyone therefore say that the Law is sin? No! By no means! But to the contrary, I did not know sin; transgression of the Law, except through the Law, for I did not know lust, unless the Law had said: Do not covet.
12 Therefore the Law is holy, and the commandments are holy, and just, and righteous.
13 Did that which is righteous, then, become death to me? By no means! But in order that sin might be recognized as sin, it produced death in me through that which was righteous, so that through the commandments, sin might become utterly sinful.
14 For we know that the Law is spiritual; but I was carnal, sold into the power of sin.
16 And if I did what I did not want to do, I agreed that the Law is righteous.
17 As it was, it was no longer I myself who did it, but it was sin living in me.
22 For I delight in the Law of Yahweh according to the inward man;
23 But I saw another law at work in the members of my body, waging war against the Law in my mind, and bringing me into captivity of the law of sin, which is in my members.
25 Thanks be to Yahweh, I have deliverance through Yahshua Messiah our King! So then, with this same mind, I myself serve the Law of Yahweh, while in the flesh that is yet subject to the law of sin.
Romans 8:2 Because through Yahshua Messiah, the Law of the Spirit has set me free from the law of sin and death.
Romans 7:14 For we know that the Law is spiritual; but I was carnal, sold into the power of sin.
Romans 8:3 For what the Law was powerless to do, in that men sought to defeat; overthrow, fit, Yahweh did by sending His own Son in the likeness of sinful man, to bear witness against sin. And so He condemned the sins of all mankind."
1Jn 3:4 Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.
Romans 7:14 For we know that the Law is spiritual; but I was carnal, sold into the power of sin.
Romans 8:5-8, "For those who live according to the flesh, set their minds on the things of the flesh; but those who live according to the Spirit, set their minds on the things of the Spirit. For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace. Because the carnal mind is enmity against; (bitterly opposed to), Yahweh; for it his not subject to the Law of Yahweh, nor indeed can be. So then, those who are of the flesh cannot please Yahweh."
Revelation 14:12, "In this manner are the saints purified--by keeping the Laws of Yahweh, (in conformity) with the faith in Yahshua Messiah."
Matt 7:12, "So then, whatever you desire that others would do to and for you, even so do also to and for them, for this is (sums up) the Law and the Prophets."
2 Timothy 3:5, "Having a form of holiness, but denying the authority of it--from such turn away!"
Mattithyah 22:37-40, "Yahshua said to him: You must love Yahweh your Father with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your might. This is the first and greatest commandment. And the second is like it: You shall love your neighbor as yourself. On these two commandments hang all the Law and the Prophets."
Romans 13:9-10, "For the commandments: You shall not commit adultery, You shall not murder, You shall not steal, You shall not bring false testimony, You shall not covet, and all other commandments are summed up in these Laws; namely: You must love your neighbor as yourself. Love does no wrong to a neighbor; therefore love is the fulfilling of the law."
1 Yahchanan 5:2-3, "By this we know that we love the children of Yahweh: When we love Yahweh by keeping His Laws. For this is the love of Yahweh: That we keep His Law, and His Law is not grievous."
1785 - entolé - Definition: an ordinance, injunction, command, law.
Hizikyah, you're continuing to completely ignore the established (by the power of and indestructible Life and an oath from God) FACT of both a new Priesthood and the New Covenant.
Taking Romans 3:28 out of context, you're preaching salvation by Law-keeping.
Check this out:
Law-keepers will often quote Romans 2:13 out of context to claim that righteousness can come through the Law. They claim that the keeping of Law does not earn salvation, but that after salvation one’s own righteousness (lack of sinning, in their view) is determined by how well one obeys Old Covenant Laws. Let’s take a look:
Romans 2:12-13
12 For as many as have sinned without law will also perish without law, and as many as have sinned in the law will be judged by the law 13 (for not the hearers of the law are just in the sight of God, but the doers of the law will be justified;
What Law-keepers refuse to acknowledge is that righteousness cannot be credited to any account that is not completely faultless according to the Law as it was given.
That means TOTAL obedience, ALL the time (see Ex. 23:13, Deut. 8:1, 12:27-28, Jer. 7:21-26, Josh. 1:6-9 for verification).
Anything short of perfect obedience all the time is a fail.
That’s why in Romans 3:21-26 says this:
That is so powerful when it’s taken piece by piece!!!
The only ‘righteousness’ you could ever hope for through the Law is your own, and that would require your perfect obedience, all the time, which is an impossibility.
-JGIG
Taking Romans 3:28 out of context, you're preaching salvation by Law-keeping.
Check this out:
Law-keepers will often quote Romans 2:13 out of context to claim that righteousness can come through the Law. They claim that the keeping of Law does not earn salvation, but that after salvation one’s own righteousness (lack of sinning, in their view) is determined by how well one obeys Old Covenant Laws. Let’s take a look:
Romans 2:12-13
12 For as many as have sinned without law will also perish without law, and as many as have sinned in the law will be judged by the law 13 (for not the hearers of the law are just in the sight of God, but the doers of the law will be justified;
What Law-keepers refuse to acknowledge is that righteousness cannot be credited to any account that is not completely faultless according to the Law as it was given.
That means TOTAL obedience, ALL the time (see Ex. 23:13, Deut. 8:1, 12:27-28, Jer. 7:21-26, Josh. 1:6-9 for verification).
Anything short of perfect obedience all the time is a fail.
That’s why in Romans 3:21-26 says this:
But now
—> the <—
righteousness of God
—> apart from the law <—
is revealed, being witnessed by the Law and the Prophets, even
—> the <—
righteousness of God
—> through faith in Jesus Christ, to all and on all who believe.<—
For there is no difference;
—> for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, <—
being justified
***freely by His grace***
through the redemption that is
*** in Christ Jesus,***
whom God set forth as a propitiation by His blood,
*** through faith,***
to demonstrate
—> His righteousness <—
because in His forbearance God had passed over the sins that were previously committed, to demonstrate at the present
time
—> His righteousness <—
that
—> He might be just and the justifier of the one who has faith in Jesus. <—
Wow!—> the <—
righteousness of God
—> apart from the law <—
is revealed, being witnessed by the Law and the Prophets, even
—> the <—
righteousness of God
—> through faith in Jesus Christ, to all and on all who believe.<—
For there is no difference;
—> for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, <—
being justified
***freely by His grace***
through the redemption that is
*** in Christ Jesus,***
whom God set forth as a propitiation by His blood,
*** through faith,***
to demonstrate
—> His righteousness <—
because in His forbearance God had passed over the sins that were previously committed, to demonstrate at the present
time
—> His righteousness <—
that
—> He might be just and the justifier of the one who has faith in Jesus. <—
That is so powerful when it’s taken piece by piece!!!
The only ‘righteousness’ you could ever hope for through the Law is your own, and that would require your perfect obedience, all the time, which is an impossibility.
God offers you HIS Righteousness
IN CHRIST!
BY GRACE!
THROUGH FAITH!
Why?
To demonstrate \o/ \o/ \o/ God’s \o/ \o/ \o/ Righteousness!
Wow!
Now check this out in Romans 10:1-4:IN CHRIST!
BY GRACE!
THROUGH FAITH!
Why?
To demonstrate \o/ \o/ \o/ God’s \o/ \o/ \o/ Righteousness!
Wow!
Brethren, my heart’s desire and prayer to God for Israel is that they may be saved.
For I bear them witness that they have a zeal for God, but not according to knowledge. For they
—> being ignorant of God’s righteousness, <—
—> and seeking to establish their own righteousness, <—
—> have not submitted to the righteousness of God. <—
—> For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to everyone who believes. <—
Why is Christ the end of the Law? Because the righteousness that is by the Law isFor I bear them witness that they have a zeal for God, but not according to knowledge. For they
—> being ignorant of God’s righteousness, <—
—> and seeking to establish their own righteousness, <—
—> have not submitted to the righteousness of God. <—
—> For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to everyone who believes. <—
- unattainable, for it requires perfect obedience, all the time, and
- is not God’s perfect righteousness, but man’s imperfect righteousness (if it could be attained), a righteousness existing only until one’s next sin
God’s Righteousness!
(more here: Hebrew Roots Movement – Man’s Righteousness or God’s Righteousness?)
-JGIG
Leviticus 19:16 , "You shall not go about tale-bearing or slandering among your people."
Mattithyah 24:12, "And because iniquity will abound, the love of the many will grow cold."
"iniquity" is:#0458 anomia {an-om-ee'-ah} from G0459
Greek Word Study (Transliteration-Pronunciation Etymology & Grammar)
1) the condition of without law
1a) because ignorant of it
1b) because of violating it
2) contempt and violation of law, iniquity, wickedness
Mattithyah 24:12, "And because iniquity will abound, the love of the many will grow cold."
"iniquity" is:#0458 anomia {an-om-ee'-ah} from G0459
Greek Word Study (Transliteration-Pronunciation Etymology & Grammar)
1) the condition of without law
1a) because ignorant of it
1b) because of violating it
2) contempt and violation of law, iniquity, wickedness
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Yahdah 1:4, "For there are certain men who have secretly crept in, who were before of old ordained for this condemnation, unholy men, who turn the undeserved pardon of our One Supreme Savior Yahweh into licentiousness, and deny Yahshua our Messiah."
Yaaqob 2:26, "For just as the body without the spirit is dead, so the faith without works is dead also."
Mattithyah 22:37-40, "Yahshua said to him: You must love Yahweh your Father with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your might (Deut 6:5). This is the first and greatest commandment. And the second is like it: You shall love your neighbor as yourself (Lev 19:18). On these two commandments hang all the Law and the Prophets."
Romans 13:9-10, "For the commandments: You shall not commit adultery, You shall not murder, You shall not steal, You shall not bring false testimony, You shall not covet, and all other commandments are summed up in these Laws; namely: You must love your neighbor as yourself. Love does no wrong to a neighbor; therefore love is the fulfilling of the law."
Deuteronomy 6:5, "And you must love Yahweh your Father with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your might."
Exodus 20:6, "But showing love to thousands who love Me by keeping My Laws."
1 Yahchanan 5:2-3, "By this we know that we love the children of Yahweh: When we love Yahweh by keeping His Laws. For this is the love of Yahweh: That we keep His Law, and His Law is not grievous."
Mattithyah 5:18, "For truly I say to you; Unless heaven and earth passes away, one yodh--the smallest of the letters--will in no way pass from the Law, until all things are perfected."
Yaaqob 2:26, "For just as the body without the spirit is dead, so the faith without works is dead also."
Mattithyah 22:37-40, "Yahshua said to him: You must love Yahweh your Father with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your might (Deut 6:5). This is the first and greatest commandment. And the second is like it: You shall love your neighbor as yourself (Lev 19:18). On these two commandments hang all the Law and the Prophets."
Romans 13:9-10, "For the commandments: You shall not commit adultery, You shall not murder, You shall not steal, You shall not bring false testimony, You shall not covet, and all other commandments are summed up in these Laws; namely: You must love your neighbor as yourself. Love does no wrong to a neighbor; therefore love is the fulfilling of the law."
Deuteronomy 6:5, "And you must love Yahweh your Father with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your might."
Exodus 20:6, "But showing love to thousands who love Me by keeping My Laws."
1 Yahchanan 5:2-3, "By this we know that we love the children of Yahweh: When we love Yahweh by keeping His Laws. For this is the love of Yahweh: That we keep His Law, and His Law is not grievous."
Mattithyah 5:18, "For truly I say to you; Unless heaven and earth passes away, one yodh--the smallest of the letters--will in no way pass from the Law, until all things are perfected."
very good post but there needs to be the balance..... For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to everyone who believes
so those who do not believe falls under the law of Moses which was never destroyed...
Galatians 3:22
But the scripture hath concluded all under sin, that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe.
it is the same law that condemns anyone who fall away from Christ...to serve the flesh
Romans 7:25
I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.
so those who do not believe falls under the law of Moses which was never destroyed...
Galatians 3:22
But the scripture hath concluded all under sin, that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe.
it is the same law that condemns anyone who fall away from Christ...to serve the flesh
Romans 7:25
I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.
Yep. That was covered in the Romans 3 passage quoted in my post 
.
See that's where we would disagree. If you are in Christ, you cannot 'fall away' so as to 'lose' eternal life. If that were the case, then the Scriptures would not call it eternal life, they would call it 'conditional life'. We went from death to Life in Christ. That is not a state where one can fluctuate between the two - physically OR spiritually!
[video=youtube;IqTYSyrdptQ]https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=IqTYSyrdptQ[/video]
To believe that one can lose one's salvation because of sinning is to believe that the God loved you enough to save you, no matter what you had done, but after you're saved, He will only keep you saved as long as you don't sin. So the Good News is only Good if you're not saved; not if you are! But that's fodder for another thread. Seems that one has been discussed at length here at CC.
-JGIG
.See that's where we would disagree. If you are in Christ, you cannot 'fall away' so as to 'lose' eternal life. If that were the case, then the Scriptures would not call it eternal life, they would call it 'conditional life'. We went from death to Life in Christ. That is not a state where one can fluctuate between the two - physically OR spiritually!
[video=youtube;IqTYSyrdptQ]https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=IqTYSyrdptQ[/video]
To believe that one can lose one's salvation because of sinning is to believe that the God loved you enough to save you, no matter what you had done, but after you're saved, He will only keep you saved as long as you don't sin. So the Good News is only Good if you're not saved; not if you are! But that's fodder for another thread. Seems that one has been discussed at length here at CC.
-JGIG
C
So you don't believe that a person can "fall away" from the faith, JGIG?
So what of the parables that say that they can?
What of Paul's writings that say that they can?
No, I won't watch the video ... I want the Word of God from you.
Do you feel that your website is the last word of all that is written?
Do you feel that you are still learning? Or can still learn?
The two extremes Again Legalism vs unconditional eternal security.
So what of the parables that say that they can?
What of Paul's writings that say that they can?
No, I won't watch the video ... I want the Word of God from you.
Do you feel that your website is the last word of all that is written?
Do you feel that you are still learning? Or can still learn?
The two extremes Again
Legalism vs unconditional eternal security.
Yep. That was covered in the Romans 3 passage quoted in my post .
See that's where we would disagree. If you are in Christ, you cannot 'fall away' so as to 'lose' eternal life. If that were the case, then the Scriptures would not call it eternal life, they would call it 'conditional life'. We went from death to Life in Christ. That is not a state where one can fluctuate between the two - physically OR spiritually!
[video=youtube;IqTYSyrdptQ]https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=IqTYSyrdptQ[/video]
To believe that one can lose one's salvation because of sinning is to believe that the God loved you enough to save you, no matter what you had done, but after you're saved, He will only keep you saved as long as you don't sin. So the Good News is only Good if you're not saved; not if you are! But that's fodder for another thread. Seems that one has been discussed at length here at CC.
-JGIG
.See that's where we would disagree. If you are in Christ, you cannot 'fall away' so as to 'lose' eternal life. If that were the case, then the Scriptures would not call it eternal life, they would call it 'conditional life'. We went from death to Life in Christ. That is not a state where one can fluctuate between the two - physically OR spiritually!
[video=youtube;IqTYSyrdptQ]https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=IqTYSyrdptQ[/video]
To believe that one can lose one's salvation because of sinning is to believe that the God loved you enough to save you, no matter what you had done, but after you're saved, He will only keep you saved as long as you don't sin. So the Good News is only Good if you're not saved; not if you are! But that's fodder for another thread. Seems that one has been discussed at length here at CC.
-JGIG
No, I won't watch the video ... I want the Word of God from you.
Do you feel that your website is the last word of all that is written?
Do you feel that you are still learning? Or can still learn?
The two extremes Again Legalism vs unconditional eternal security.[/
Do you feel that your website is the last word of all that is written?
Do you feel that you are still learning? Or can still learn?
The two extremes Again
Legalism vs unconditional eternal security.[/
I often watch/listen to/read material with opposing views to my own. Is my site the last word? Of course not; contextual Scripture is. It's my commitment, however, to point folks to:
- Who Christ is
- What He came to do
- What that actually accomplished, and
- Who believers are in Him.
Issues of legalism, licentiousness, and the eternal state of those in Christ clear right up when one grasps those simple truths
.For instance, take the High Priesthood of Christ:
In the Old Covenant, the priests dealt with compassion with the people, but in the New Covenant Christ will 'cut off' believers who sin? Does that sound right to you?
No!
14 Since then we have a great high priest who has passed through the heavens, Jesus, the Son of God, let us hold fast our confession.
15 For we do not have a high priest who is unable to sympathize with our weaknesses, but one who in every respect has been tempted as we are, yet without sin. 16 Let us then with confidence draw near to the throne of grace, that we may receive mercy and find grace to help in time of need. (from Heb. 4)
15 For we do not have a high priest who is unable to sympathize with our weaknesses, but one who in every respect has been tempted as we are, yet without sin. 16 Let us then with confidence draw near to the throne of grace, that we may receive mercy and find grace to help in time of need. (from Heb. 4)
Contextually, that's saying that when we sin, we can come to God with confidence in Christ because He does sympathize with our weaknesses (sinning)!
Trying not to get off topic on this thread, but will answer you in full. Part of the point of the New Covenant vs. the Old Covenant is that we ARE secure in Christ; the New Covenant was made between God the Father and God the Son - we enter into it by faith, but both ends of the bargain are upheld by God Himself.
To take a snapshot or even a series of events in the life of a believer where they are stumbling and failing miserably and telling them that God has decided that they're not His adopted anymore is incredibly damaging to the Body of Christ.
One only needs to read through the letter to the Corinthians to understand that even in vile states of sinning for long periods of time, Paul was telling them, "Don't you know who/Whose you are?! Stop it! Live in a manner worthy of the reality of who you are in Christ!" He never once put Law on them or told them to straighten up or suffer loss of Eternal Life. Paul even refers to the Corinthians as his 'letter of recommendation'! Even in the midst of the reasons for the letters!
Did Paul teach them that there were earthly consequences for sinning? You bet. And a good reason to avoid sinning - it's dumb and destructive and distracts us from what God has for us in our lives and from what He has for us to do and makes us terrible witnesses.
But if you drink and drive and run yourself into a bridge embankment, that's not an eternal judgement from God, that's an earthly consequence for your stupidity. Likewise, if you engage in sexual sinning and lose relationship with those you love because of it, that's not eternal judgement from God, but earthly consequences. Some folks are really slow learners, but if they are truly in Christ, there will be changes in them over time. For some, those changes will come over a lifetime, with continuous struggles. I've written more about that here: Grace or Law? How Then, Shall We Live?
You can't be made alive in Christ and then be made UN-alive in Christ. It's just not possible. Those in Christ are sealed by the Holy Spirit unto the Day of Redemption for GOD'S glory - again, He is faithful, and He will do it - He Who began a good work in you will be faithful to complete it (Eph. 2, 1 Thess. 5, Philippians 1).
To embrace the belief that one's free gifts of forgiveness, righteousness, and new life in Christ can be lost is to embrace the belief that the Blood of Christ can be reversed - that it can be made of no effect. It's like saying the Blood of Christ will save the sinner who sins, but it won't keep the saint saved who sins.
What does Scripture say makes Christ of no effect in the life of a believer?
Sinning?
No!
Turning to Law (behavior modification) vs. being led by the Spirit (letting God produce His Fruit - Gal. 5).
Take it or leave it, that's where I stand
. My goal is not for anyone to agree with me - my goal is to always point people to Christ and believers to who they are in Christ. I trust that He will sort it all out just fine.-JGIG
C
Thank you for your reply - I just spent a lot of time on your site before I posted my question to you and wasn't up to any more audios or videos and just wanted to hear your own personal beliefs from you directly.
I'm not going to debate this - I just wanted to know your view. I don't agree but that's neither here nor there.
Again, thanks for taking the time to reply. I waited for you to post your reply - and do appreciate the work you've done on your site.
I do know your posts from elsewhere - but we never got a chance to exchange posts/thoughts.
Blessings!
I'm not going to debate this - I just wanted to know your view. I don't agree but that's neither here nor there.
Again, thanks for taking the time to reply. I waited for you to post your reply - and do appreciate the work you've done on your site.
I do know your posts from elsewhere - but we never got a chance to exchange posts/thoughts.
Blessings!
Yep. That was covered in the Romans 3 passage quoted in my post .
See that's where we would disagree. If you are in Christ, you cannot 'fall away' so as to 'lose' eternal life. If that were the case, then the Scriptures would not call it eternal life, they would call it 'conditional life'. We went from death to Life in Christ. That is not a state where one can fluctuate between the two - physically OR spiritually!
.See that's where we would disagree. If you are in Christ, you cannot 'fall away' so as to 'lose' eternal life. If that were the case, then the Scriptures would not call it eternal life, they would call it 'conditional life'. We went from death to Life in Christ. That is not a state where one can fluctuate between the two - physically OR spiritually!
Hebrews 10:26-29King James Version (KJV)
[SUP]26 [/SUP]For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,
[SUP]27 [/SUP]But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.
[SUP]28 [/SUP]He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses:
[SUP]29 [/SUP]Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?
1 John 3:15
Whosoever hateth his brother is a murderer: and ye know that no murderer hath eternal life abiding in him.
to believe one cannot lose salvation because of sinning is to believe that God loves you to sin....God hates sin..... that is why he purged our sins... to have fellowship with him....not to continue in sin....if we sin he gives us opportunity to rid ourselves of these...by confessing and repenting (turning from them).....why would you want the Good News to be....... saved from sin to continue in sin??? does that make sense????
Hebrews 5:9
And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;
What does Scripture say makes Christ of no effect in the life of a believer?
Sinning?
No!
Turning to Law (behavior modification) vs. being led by the Spirit (letting God produce His Fruit - Gal. 5).
Take it or leave it, that's where I stand. My goal is not for anyone to agree with me - my goal is to always point people to Christ and believers to who they are in Christ. I trust that He will sort it all out just fine.
-JGIG
Sinning?
No!
Turning to Law (behavior modification) vs. being led by the Spirit (letting God produce His Fruit - Gal. 5).
Take it or leave it, that's where I stand
. My goal is not for anyone to agree with me - my goal is to always point people to Christ and believers to who they are in Christ. I trust that He will sort it all out just fine.-JGIG
2 Timothy 3:5, "Having a form of holiness, but denying the authority of it--from such turn away!"
Isayah 59:21, "As for Me, this is My covenant with them, says Yahweh: My Spirit which is upon you, namely My Word (Instructions) which I have put in your mouth; they will not depart from your mouth, nor from the mouth of your seed, nor from the mouth of your seed's seed, says Yahweh: from this time and forevermore."
John 6:63, "It is the Spirit that gives life; the flesh is useless. The Words (Instructions) that I speak to you, they are Spirit, and they are life everlasting."
John 6:63, "It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life."
Galatians 5:18, "But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the law."
If you are lead by the Spirit you will not do anything in opposition to the Law.
Romans 8:5-8, "For those who live according to the flesh, set their minds on the things of the flesh; but those who live according to the Spirit, set their minds on the things of the Spirit. For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace. Because the carnal mind is enmity against; (bitterly opposed to), Yahweh; for it his not subject to the Law of Yahweh, nor indeed can be. So then, those who are of the flesh cannot please Yahweh."
When you are driving as long as you go below the speed limit you will have no negative consequence (ticket) while yet having the benefit of being safe because you are driving the proper speed on a particular road.
The Spirit and the Law say the EXACT SAME THING.
this is the next verse:
Galatians 5:19, "For the works of the flesh are obvious, which are these: adultery, fornication, uncleanness, licentiousness, Idolatry, sorcery, hatred, contentions, evil jealousies, rage, selfish ambitions, dissensions, heresies; sects or factions of division, Envy, murders, drunkenness, revelries, and the like; of which I warn you beforehand, just as I did in times past, that those who practice such things will not inherit the Kingdom of Yahweh."
Every single one of these "works of the flesh" is forbidden in Yahweh's Law, aka in opposition to the Spirit and in opposition to the Law.
Galatians 5:22-23, "But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering; patience, kindness, righteousness, The Faith; Meekness; gentleness, humility, temperance; self-control--such things are not against any Law."
Every single one of the is promoted and in the Spirit of Yahweh's Law, after all it was the Spirit of Yahweh that gave His Law, how could they possibly be in opposition? Now do you understand why Paul said?, "such things are not against any Law."
Wrong....
I see you preach The Messiahs righteousness but haven't said a word how to get there.... " through faith, and dying to self and being filled with the Holy Ghost " against such... There is no law, if you think you can just do what you want because of His righteousness, your mistaken,
" pick up your cross and follow Him " with and through your soul with Holy Ghost guiding..
I see you preach The Messiahs righteousness but haven't said a word how to get there.... " through faith, and dying to self and being filled with the Holy Ghost " against such... There is no law, if you think you can just do what you want because of His righteousness, your mistaken,
" pick up your cross and follow Him " with and through your soul with Holy Ghost guiding..
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John 5:24, "Most certainly I tell you, he who hears my word, and believes him who sent me, has eternal life, and doesn't come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life."
John 12:48, "He who rejects Me, and does not follow My words has One Who judges him. The word that I have spoken, the same will be used to judge him in the last day."
Hebrews 10:26-30, "For if we sin willfully after we have received the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins, But a certain fearful expectation of judgment, and fiery indignation which will devour the adversaries. Those who rejected the Law given through Mosheh died without mercy on the testimony of two or three witnesses. How much more severely do you think a man deserves to be punished, who has trampled the Son of Yahweh underfoot, and has counted the blood of the covenant (with which He was sanctified) an unholy thing, and who has insulted the Spirit of mercy? For we know Him Who has said: Vengeance is Mine; I will repay, says Yahweh. And again: Yahweh will judge His people."
1 Yahchanan 2:1-2, "My little children, I write these things to you, so that you may not sin. And if anyone sins, we have an Advocate with the Father: Yahshua Messiah, the Righteous; He is the sacrifice of atonement for our sins, and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world."
1 Yahchanan 3:4, "Whoever commits sin, transgresses also the Law; for sin is the transgression of the Law."
1 Yahchanan 5:2-3, "By this we know that we love the children of Yahweh: When we love Yahweh by keeping His Laws. For this is the love of Yahweh: That we keep His Law, and His Law is not grievous."
Just because we have mercy does not mean we throw all Instructions in the Law of Yahweh in the trash.
Yahdah 1:4, "For there are certain men who have secretly crept in, who were before of old ordained for this condemnation, unholy men, who turn the undeserved pardon of our One Supreme Savior Yahweh into licentiousness, and deny Yahshua our Messiah."
John 12:48, "He who rejects Me, and does not follow My words has One Who judges him. The word that I have spoken, the same will be used to judge him in the last day."
Hebrews 10:26-30, "For if we sin willfully after we have received the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins, But a certain fearful expectation of judgment, and fiery indignation which will devour the adversaries. Those who rejected the Law given through Mosheh died without mercy on the testimony of two or three witnesses. How much more severely do you think a man deserves to be punished, who has trampled the Son of Yahweh underfoot, and has counted the blood of the covenant (with which He was sanctified) an unholy thing, and who has insulted the Spirit of mercy? For we know Him Who has said: Vengeance is Mine; I will repay, says Yahweh. And again: Yahweh will judge His people."
1 Yahchanan 2:1-2, "My little children, I write these things to you, so that you may not sin. And if anyone sins, we have an Advocate with the Father: Yahshua Messiah, the Righteous; He is the sacrifice of atonement for our sins, and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world."
1 Yahchanan 3:4, "Whoever commits sin, transgresses also the Law; for sin is the transgression of the Law."
1 Yahchanan 5:2-3, "By this we know that we love the children of Yahweh: When we love Yahweh by keeping His Laws. For this is the love of Yahweh: That we keep His Law, and His Law is not grievous."
Just because we have mercy does not mean we throw all Instructions in the Law of Yahweh in the trash.
Yahdah 1:4, "For there are certain men who have secretly crept in, who were before of old ordained for this condemnation, unholy men, who turn the undeserved pardon of our One Supreme Savior Yahweh into licentiousness, and deny Yahshua our Messiah."