It Is satanic Heresy to Deny Eternal Security

[SeaBass]

Link: Presbytery of Middle Tennessee votes yes on gay marriage

"An amendment changing the church's definition of marriage squeaked through a Presbytery of Middle Tennessee vote on Saturday, as local Presbyterians became some of the first in the nation to help decide the issue."

Supporting homosexuality cause one to be lost?

 

[SeaBass]

Only in a cult (IMHO) is their near uniformity of doctrine. But it is the case there that the administration is tolerant, and apparently believes in a high measure of freedom of speech.

Jesus said "thy word is truth". Truth is uniform, truth does not contradict itself so contradictions are not of truth, not of God's word, not of the Holy Spirit.

How do you know that?
Prove your assertion, or retract.

He made the claim the HS literally dwells in him so it is up to him to prove his own assertions. False teachings and contradictions are not of the Holy Spirit.

The Christian has the proof to himself from within. As to proving it to other persons, they can get some idea by the fruit produced (love, joy peace), but there is no way I know of for a Christian to prove to someone else that the Spirit is in him.



Literally? I don't see how you could say literal when we discuss Sin in the abstract.

So does does the Holy Spirit LITERALLY or REPRESENTATIONALLY dwell in the Christian.

When Paul said sin dwelleth in him he is not saying sin literally dwells in him but sins' influence is what dwells in him and the same thing when Paul said "Christ liveth in me" Gal 2:20 is not that Christ is literally dwelling in Paul but it's Christ influence that dwelling in Paul. And the same is true with the Holy Spirit, His influences through His word dwells in me.

'Notuptome' took issue with me that I said the Holy Spirit dwells in me through that influence His word. So the onus is still upon him to prove and back up what he says.


Anyone can come to this forum and CLAIM the Holy Spirit literally dwells in him therefore he has "all truth" and we all better listen and believe what he has to say.

Who in their right mind will blindly believe/follow him??

Surely 'Notuptome" is not basing his being "biblcally right" solely because he CLAIMS the Holy Spirit literally dwells in him. If so then he has no credibility at all for he cannot prove his claim.

Sin dwells in the Old Me, the flesh, the Old Man. But flesh here is not the Body, but the Old Adamic Nature. The Christian has two egos, two I's, as in Romans 7. The Holy Spirit dwells in the body of the Christian, not in his Old Man. His good me wills to do good.

For that which I do I know not: for not what I would, that do I practise; but what I hate, that I do. 16 But if what I would not, that I do, I consent unto the law that it is good. 17 So now it is no more I that do it, but sin which dwelleth in me. 18 For I know that in me, that is, in my flesh, dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me, but to do that which is good is not. 19 For the good which I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I practise. 20 But if what I would not, that I do, it is no more I that do it, but sin which dwelleth in me. 21 I find then 14the law, that, to me who would do good, evil is present. 22 For I delight in the law of God after the inward man: 23 but I see a different law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity under the law of sin which is in my members. 24 Wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me out of the body of this death? 25 18I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then I of myself with the mind, indeed, serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.

What is confusing & part of Paul's difficult to understand passages is that "the body of this death" and the "members" are also expressions referring to the Old Man flesh, not the physical body. Passage does not say "members of my body." As in Colossians, "members" is another expression for the Old Man flesh as in members which are upon the earth, which are described in Colossians similarly to flesh in Gal 5, not merely physical matters. Evidently prophet Paul calls flesh also the Body of Sin because the flesh acts like a body for sin, an instrument for action.


Compare Colossians 3 with Gal 5:

Put to death therefore your members which are upon the earth: fornication, uncleanness, passion, evil desire, and covetousness, which is idolatry; 6 for which things’ sake cometh the wrath of God upon the sons of disobedience: 7 wherein ye also once walked, when ye lived in these things; 8 but now do ye also put them all away: anger, wrath, malice, railing, shameful speaking out of your mouth: 9 lie not one to another; seeing that ye have put off the old man with his doings, 10 and have put on the new man, that is being renewed unto knowledge after the image of him that created him:

But until you get your new birth by trusting the Savior, I doubt you will understand the psychology of the Christian.

.

Again, did sin dwell in Paul literally or by influence?
Does Christ dwell in the Christian literally or by influence?

 

[notuptome]

So being unable to deal with the issues at hand you resort to personal attacks.

--the Holy Spirit would not literally indwell in those that teach false teachings such as eternal security.

--many, if not most, on this forum claim they have a literal indwelling of the Holy Spirit but look at all the arguing, confusion, disagreements, contradictions and false teachings being spread on this forum alone.

--you cannot prove, even if your life depended upon it, that the Holy Spirit is literally dwelling in you. Does sin literally 'dwell' in you, Rom 7:17? Will the Holy Spirit literally dwell where sin is? No.

I cannot prove to an unbeliever that the Holy Spirit dwells in my heart. I cannot prove to a scoffer his folly. You will not to be reproved by the scriptures so things do not look at all rosy for you.

The Holy Spirit is here in the earth so yes the Holy Spirit dwells where there is sin. The Holy Spirit reproves sin in the hearts of men so the Holy Spirit shows sin for what it is.

The arguing and confusion is not from the Holy Spirit but the hardness of men's hearts and they strive against the Holy Spirits leading which leads to chastisement.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[Atwood]

Jesus said "thy word is truth". Truth is uniform, truth does not contradict itself so contradictions are not of truth, not of God's word, not of the Holy Spirit.

You seem to me to have a tendency to insert words & go off on red herrings. The Word says that the Holy Spirit dwells in Christians. Why argue over words (logomachein)? So someone will ask you, yes Truth is uniform, but is truth literally uniform? And is it the literal truth which is uniform or the non-literal truth. And does it literally not contradict?

And does it unconditionally contradict?

Perhaps you might try sticking to God's word, O Seabass.

And just so the audience doesn't forget, there is no such thing as "losing salvation in the Bible," nor one verse where Lose & salvation occur together. Instead we find that the believer is eternally secure in His Savior, who has promised to save His people from their sins.

Ps 34
YHWH redeems the soul of his servants;
And none of them who take refuge in him shall be condemned.

Ps 52
But as for me, I am like a green olive-tree in the house of God:
I trust in the lovingkindness of God for ever and ever.
I will give thee thanks for ever, because thou hast done it;
1 Thes 5 end:
"And the God of peace himself sanctify you wholly; and may your spirit and soul and body be preserved entire, without blame at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ. Faithful is He Who calls you, Who will also do it.

Col 3
If then ye were raised together with Christ, seek the things that are above, where Christ is, seated on the right hand of God. Set your mind on the things that are above, not on the things that are upon the earth. For ye died, and your life is hid with Christ in God. When Christ, who is our life, shall be manifested, then shall ye also with him be manifested in glory.

2 Thes 2:16
Now our Lord Jesus Christ himself, and God our Father who loved us and gave us eternal comfort and good hope through grace, comfort your hearts and establish them in every good work and word.
End of Rom 8:
And we know that to them that love God all things work together for good, even to them that are called according to his purpose. For whom
he foreknew,
he also foreordained to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren: and whom
he foreordained, them
he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom
he justified, them
he also glorified.

31 What then shall we say to these things? If God is for us, who is against us? 3He that spared not his own Son, but delivered him up for us all, how shall he not also with him freely give us all things? Who shall lay anything to the charge of God’s elect? It is God that justifieth; who is he that condemneth? It is Christ Jesus that died, yea rather, that was raised from the dead, who is at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us. Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? shall tribulation, or anguish, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword? Even as it is written,
For thy sake we are killed all the day long;
We were accounted as sheep for the slaughter.

Nay, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him that loved us. For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor things present, nor things to come, nor powers, nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

< 1 Pet 1
Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who according to his great mercy begat us again unto a living hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, unto an inheritance incorruptible, and undefiled, and that fadeth not away, reserved in heaven for you, who by the power of God are guarded through faith unto a salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.

THE OVERCOMER
Revelation 3:5
The one who overcomes will be clothed thus in white garments, and I will never blot his name out of the book of life. I will confess his name before my Father… 1 John 5:4-5 For whatsoever is begotten of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that has overcome the world, even our faith. And who is he who overcomes the world, but he that believeth that Jesus is the Son of God? For everyone who has been born of God overcomes the world. And this is the victory that has overcome the world—our faith.

Rev:
And I saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down . . . I am the Alpha and the Omega, the beginning and the end. I will give unto him that is athirst of the fountain of the water of life freely. He that overcometh shall inherit these things; and I will be his God, and he shall be my son.
In II Thess. 3:3 “But the Lord is faithful, who shall establish you, and guard you from the evil one.”

In II Tim. 1:12 he sounds a note of rejoicing: “For I know Him whom I have believed, and I am persuaded that He is able to guard that which I have committed unto Him against that day.”
< 2 Tim 4:18
The Lord will deliver me from every evil work, and will save me unto his heavenly kingdom;


2 Tim 1:8-9
… God; who saved us, and called us with a holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before times eternal,

2 thes 2:16-17 Now our Lord Jesus Christ himself, and God our Father who loved us and gave us eternal comfort and good hope through grace, comfort your hearts and establish them in every good work and word.
Rm 6:23b
the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.
John 10:27-29
My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me. I give them eternal life, and they will never perish, and no one will snatch them out of my hand. My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all, and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father's hand.
John 6:37
All that the Father gives me will come to me, and whoever comes to me I will never cast out.
John 10:28
I give them eternal life, and they will never perish, and no one will snatch them out of my hand.
John 3:16
“For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life.
John 5:24
Truly, truly, I say to you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life. He does not come into judgment, but has passed from death to life.
2 Corinthians 1:22
And who has also put his seal on us and given us his Spirit in our hearts as a guarantee.
Romans 11:29
For the gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable.
1 John 5:13
I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God that you may know that you have eternal life.
Philippians 1:6
And I am sure of this, that he who began a good work in you will bring it to completion at the day of Jesus Christ.
Ephesians 2:8
For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God,
1 John 5:10-13
Whoever believes in the Son of God has the testimony in himself. Whoever does not believe God has made him a liar, because he has not believed in the testimony that God has borne concerning his Son. And this is the testimony, that God gave us eternal life, and this life is in his Son. Whoever has the Son has life; whoever does not have the Son of God does not have life. I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God that you may know that you have eternal life.
Romans 11:6
But if it is by grace, it is no longer on the basis of works; otherwise grace would no longer be grace.

Romans 8:34
Who is to condemn? Christ Jesus is the one who died—more than that, who was raised—who is at the right hand of God, who indeed is interceding for us.
Ephesians 2:8-9
For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, not a result of works, so that no one may boast.
Romans 6:23
For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.
Philippians 3:20-21
But our citizenship is in heaven, and from it we await a Savior, the Lord Jesus Christ, who will transform our lowly body to be like his glorious body, by the power that enables him even to subject all things to himself.

Ps 138
"thy right hand will save me.
YHWH will perfect that which concerns me:"
Ephesians 1:13
In him you also, when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation, and believed in him, were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit,

For the gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable.
1 John 5:13
I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God that you may know that you have eternal life.
Philippians 1:6
And I am sure of this, that he who began a good work in you will bring it to completion at the day of Jesus Christ.
Ephesians 2:8
For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God,
1 John 5:10-13
Whoever believes in the Son of God has the testimony in himself. Whoever does not believe God has made him a liar, because he has not believed in the testimony that God has borne concerning his Son. And this is the testimony, that God gave us eternal life, and this life is in his Son. Whoever has the Son has life; whoever does not have the Son of God does not have life. I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God that you may know that you have eternal life.

1 John 2:19
They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would have continued with us. But they went out, that it might become plain that they all are not of us.
John 6:40
For this is the will of my Father, that everyone who looks on the Son and believes in
For this is the will of my Father, that every one that beholdeth the Son, and believeth on him, should have eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day.
Hebrews 10:14
For by a single offering he has perfected for all time those who are being sanctified.

Ephesians 2:8-10 For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, not a result of works, so that no one may boast. For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them.
John 4:14
But whoever drinks of the water that I will give him will never be thirsty again. The water that I will give him will become in him a spring of water welling up to eternal life.
John 6:47
Truly, truly, I say to you, whoever believes has eternal life.
John 3:36
Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life; whoever does not obey the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God remains on him.
John 3:18
Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only Son of God.
Psalm 34:22
The Lord redeems the life of his servants; none of those who take refuge in him will be condemned.
Jude 1:24
Now to him who is able to keep you from stumbling and to present you blameless before the presence of his glory with great joy,
1 Peter 1:3-5
Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who according to his great mercy begat us again unto a living hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, 4 unto an inheritance incorruptible, and undefiled, and that fadeth not away, reserved in heaven for you, 5 who by the power of God are guarded through faith unto a salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.
Colossians 1:13
He has delivered us from the domain of darkness and transferred us to the kingdom of his beloved Son,
Romans 8:32
He who did not spare his own Son but gave him up for us all, how will he not also with him graciously give us all things?
Romans 8:1
There is therefore now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus
John 1:12
But to all who did receive him, who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God,
Revelation 3:5
The one who overcomes will be clothed thus in white garments, and I will never blot his name out of the book of life. I will confess his name before my Father… 1 John 5:4-5 For whatsoever is begotten of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that has overcome the world, even our faith. And who is he who overcomes the world, but he that believeth that Jesus is the Son of God? For everyone who has been born of God overcomes the world. And this is the victory that has overcome the world—our faith.
Hebrews 9:15
Therefore he is the mediator of a new covenant, so that those who are called may receive the promised eternal inheritance, since a death has occurred that redeems them from the transgressions committed under the first covenant.
Ephesians 1:1-23
Paul, an apostle of Christ Jesus by the will of God, To the saints who are in Ephesus, and are faithful in Christ Jesus: Grace to you and peace from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ. Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us in Christ with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places, even as he chose us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and blameless before him. In love he predestined us for adoption as sons through Jesus
Ephesians 1:11
In him we have obtained an inheritance, having been predestined according to the purpose of him who works all things according to the counsel of his will,

< ps 138
thy right hand will save me.
Jehovah will perfect that which concerns me:
Thy lovingkindness, O Jehovah, endureth forever;

Heb 11:19ff

And these all, having had witness borne to them through their faith, received not the promise, God having provided some better thing concerning us, that apart from us they should not be made perfect. Therefore let us also, seeing we are compassed about with so great a cloud of witnesses, lay aside every weight, and the sin which doth so easily beset us, and let us run with patience the race that is set before us, looking unto Jesus the author and perfecter of our faith, who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross,


looking unto Jesus the author and perfecter of our faith, who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross,


Isaiah 26:12
Jehovah, thou wilt ordain peace for us; for thou hast also wrought all our works for us.

Eph 2
but God, being rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us, even when we were dead through our trespasses, made us alive together with Christ (by grace have ye been saved), and raised us up with him, and made us to sit with him in the heavenly places, in Christ Jesus: that in the ages to come he might show the exceeding riches of his grace in kindness toward us in Christ Jesus: for by grace have ye been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God; not of works, that no man should glory. For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God afore prepared that we should walk in them.

Philip 1:6
And I am sure of this, that he who began a good work in you will bring it to completion at the day of Jesus Christ.

Thou shalt call His name Jesus, for He shall save His people from their sins.

 

[GracethroughfaithinChrist]

Cool Hand Luke (1967)
Play clip (excerpt):

Many times those words from cool hand luke have ran through my head while browsing the bible discussion forum here. Thanks for sharing Joesph

 

[SeaBass]

I cannot prove to an unbeliever that the Holy Spirit dwells in my heart. I cannot prove to a scoffer his folly. You will not to be reproved by the scriptures so things do not look at all rosy for you.

The Holy Spirit is here in the earth so yes the Holy Spirit dwells where there is sin. The Holy Spirit reproves sin in the hearts of men so the Holy Spirit shows sin for what it is.

The arguing and confusion is not from the Holy Spirit but the hardness of men's hearts and they strive against the Holy Spirits leading which leads to chastisement.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

You cannot prove to anyone that the Holy Spirit is literally dwelling inside of you. Every one that does not agree with you is wrong simply because you have a claimed literal indwelling of the Holy Spirit? Again, you cannot explain away all the contradiction going on just on this forum by all those that claim a literal indwelling of the Holy Spirit. It been shown on this forum time and again the Holy Spirit never taught the man-made idea of eternal security. So how can one who claims to have a literal indwelling of the Holy Spirit believe things the Holy Spirit never taught?

The Holy Spirit, God Christ have no dwelling place with sin. Hab 1:13 God will not look upon sin much less dwell with sin.

 

[kennethcadwell]

[h=1]Acts 2:38-39[/h]38 Then Peter said to them, “Repent, and let every one of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins; and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. 39 For the promise is to you and to your children, and to all who are afar off, as many as the Lord our God will call.”

 

[peacefulbeliever]

You cannot prove to anyone that the Holy Spirit is literally dwelling inside of you. Every one that does not agree with you is wrong simply because you have a claimed literal indwelling of the Holy Spirit? Again, you cannot explain away all the contradiction going on just on this forum by all those that claim a literal indwelling of the Holy Spirit. It been shown on this forum time and again the Holy Spirit never taught the man-made idea of eternal security. So how can one who claims to have a literal indwelling of the Holy Spirit believe things the Holy Spirit never taught?

The Holy Spirit, God Christ have no dwelling place with sin. Hab 1:13 God will not look upon sin much less dwell with sin.

When you are born again of Spirit - where does it dwell if not inside you?

And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter that he may abide with you for ever. Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive because it seeth him not neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you and shall be in you. John 14:16,17

 

[SeaBass]

You seem to me to have a tendency to insert words & go off on red herrings. The Word says that the Holy Spirit dwells in Christians. Why argue over words (logomachein)? So someone will ask you, yes Truth is uniform, but is truth literally uniform? And is it the literal truth which is uniform or the non-literal truth. And does it literally not contradict?

And does it unconditionally contradict?

Perhaps you might try sticking to God's word, O Seabass.

And just so the audience doesn't forget, there is no such thing as "losing salvation in the Bible," nor one verse where Lose & salvation occur together. Instead we find that the believer is eternally secure in His Savior, who has promised to save His people from their sins.

2 Tim 1:7 "For God hath not given us the spirit of fear; but of power, and of love, and of a sound mind."

Are these spirits that literal dwell in man? No, but representative of man's state of mind.

Rom 7:20 "Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me."
Did sin literally indwell in Paul?

Sin literally dwell in man? No.

Rom 8:9 "But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his."

Rom 7:18 "For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not."

Rom 8;9 Paul says the spirit of God indwells but also says no good thing dwelleth in him....hmmmm

------------------------------

Nowhere in the bible do the two words "eternal" and "security" occur together.

 

[SeaBass]

When you are born again of Spirit - where does it dwell if not inside you?

And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter that he may abide with you for ever. Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive because it seeth him not neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you and shall be in you. John 14:16,17

Jn 14:16,17 was spoken to the apostles and the Comforter was promises only to the apostles, Acts 1:1-5, no one else.

The Holy Spirit representationally is in the Christian though the word as sin dwells not literally but represntationally by its influence. As God and Christ both representationally indwell in the Christian by their influence, not literally.


A man is a hard worker and has a son that is also a hard worker
This man is also a farmer and his son is also a farmer
This man believes in x,y,x and his son also believes in x,y,z

Someone may tell this son that they see his father in him. This does not men the father is literally indwelling in the son but the son shows traits, characteristics, influences of the father that are being represented in the son.

Likewise the Holy Spirit authored the bible and those that live by the bible will have traits, characteristics, influences of the Holy Spirit that are being represented in the Christian.

 

[SeaBass]

Acts 2:38-39

38 Then Peter said to them, “Repent, and let every one of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins; and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. 39 For the promise is to you and to your children, and to all who are afar off, as many as the Lord our God will call.”

You can receive a "gift of Seabass" but you do not receive Seabass but you receive the gift Seabass has to give.

2 Tim 1:6 one can receive a "gift of God" but that does not they are receiving God Himself. Likewise one can receive the" gift of the Holy Ghost" does not mean they are receiving the Holy Ghost Himself but receives the gift the Holy Ghost is giving.

 

[AtonedFor]

Acts 2:38-39

38 Then Peter said to them, “Repent, and let every one of you
be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins;
and you shall receive the the gift of the Holy Spirit.
39 For the promise is to you and to your children,
and to all who are afar off, as many as the Lord our God
will call.”

The PROMISE is tied to the BAPTISM with the Holy Spirit
Acts 1:4-8

The PROMISE is tied to the GIFT
Acts 2:1-4

The GIFT is tied to the BAPTISM with the Holy Spirit
Acts 11:15-17

All 3 ... the PROMISE, the GIFT, and the BAPTISM …
are all tied to the Holy Spirit coming UPON the believer …
Luke 24:49, Acts 1:4-8, Acts 10:44-48, Acts 11:15-17, Acts 19:5-6

The 2 U/L passages above mention speaking in TONGUES.

This is all too complicated, except for those who earnestly search for the Truth.
Matthew 7:
[SUP]7 [/SUP]“Ask, and it will be given to you; seek, and you will find;
knock, and it will be opened to you. [SUP]
8 [/SUP]For everyone who asks receives, and he who seeks finds,
and to him who knocks it will be opened.

 

[kennethcadwell]

You can receive a "gift of Seabass" but you do not receive Seabass but you receive the gift Seabass has to give.

2 Tim 1:6 one can receive a "gift of God" but that does not they are receiving God Himself. Likewise one can receive the" gift of the Holy Ghost" does not mean they are receiving the Holy Ghost Himself but receives the gift the Holy Ghost is giving.

1 Corinthians 6:19
Or do you not know that your body is a temple of the Holy Spirit who is in you, whom you have from God, and that you are not your own?

Romans 15:13
Now the God of hope fill you with all joy and peace in believing, that ye may abound in hope, through the power of the Holy Ghost.


Romans 5:5
And hope maketh not ashamed; because the love of God is shed abroad in our hearts by the Holy Ghost which is given unto us.


1 Corinthians 3:16-17
Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you?


Romans 8:9
But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.

 

[SeaBass]

1 Corinthians 6:19
Or do you not know that your body is a temple of the Holy Spirit who is in you, whom you have from God, and that you are not your own?

Romans 15:13
Now the God of hope fill you with all joy and peace in believing, that ye may abound in hope, through the power of the Holy Ghost.


Romans 5:5
And hope maketh not ashamed; because the love of God is shed abroad in our hearts by the Holy Ghost which is given unto us.


1 Corinthians 3:16-17
Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you?


Romans 8:9
But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you.Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.

Representational indwelling of the Holy Spirit as sin representational indwells, not literally indwelling.

In some places as Acts 5:32 giving of the Holy Spirit is a metonymy for giving of miraculous abilities as the apostles had in this context.
Acts 2:38 as I see the gift of the Holy Spirit is not the Spirit Himself but his gift is miraculous signs per verse 17,18

 

[kennethcadwell]

Representational indwelling of the Holy Spirit as sin representational indwells, not literally indwelling.

Your constant denial of the Holy Spirit dwelling within a person is saddening, and I will pray to God for you !!!
For if you don't believe He does, then I can clearly say you have never felt His presence in you. I for one have felt His presence in me, and I have felt His guidance and conviction when I did not listen.

 

[SeaBass]

Your constant denial of the Holy Spirit dwelling within a person is saddening, and I will pray to God for you !!!
For if you don't believe He does, then I can clearly say you have never felt His presence in you. I for one have felt His presence in me, and I have felt His guidance and conviction when I did not listen.

There is enough proof from scripture to show the Holy Spirit does indwell in the Christian representationally.

Again, too many on this forum alone claim a literally indwelling of the Holy Spirit yet believe in false teachings and contradict each other all over the place. You think I will listen to them?

There is no touchy feely, subjective indwelling. If one is living by the word the Holy Spirit wrote, [the bible] then one KNOWS (not felt) the Holy Spirit is indwelling in him by that word.

Col 3:16 "Let the word of Christ dwell in you richly in all wisdom; teaching and admonishing one another in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing with grace in your hearts to the Lord."

Eph 5:18 "And be not drunk with wine, wherein is excess; but be filled with the Spirit; Speaking to yourselves in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing and making melody in your heart to the Lord;"

Here are two parallel verses.

"Let the word of Christ dwell in you" is equivalent to "be filled with the spirit".

This makes it more evident to me that me being filled with the spirit is the same as the word indwelling in me.

Also know that both phases are in the imperative mood.

Please tell me, how do you obey the command to "be filled with the spirit"? If this is a literal indwelling then how are you going to make the Spirit indwell in you so you can obey this command? Will you command, force, coerce the Holy Spirit to literally come into you? Hardly.

Paul tells us how to obey the command "be filled with the spirit " with five participles "speaking" "singing" "making" "giving" and "submitting" Eph 5:19-21. These participles themselves becomes imperatives in order to obey the command "be filled with the spirit". Those that obey these participles will be filled with the spirit not literally but representationally as seen by them doing these things. By their doing these 5 things the Holy Spirit's has commanded, then these traits, characteristics, influence of the Holy Spirit is dwelling in them.

 

[peacefulbeliever]

Jn 14:16,17 was spoken to the apostles and the Comforter was promises only to the apostles, Acts 1:1-5, no one else.

The Holy Spirit representationally is in the Christian though the word as sin dwells not literally but represntationally by its influence. As God and Christ both representationally indwell in the Christian by their influence, not literally.


A man is a hard worker and has a son that is also a hard worker
This man is also a farmer and his son is also a farmer
This man believes in x,y,x and his son also believes in x,y,z

Someone may tell this son that they see his father in him. This does not men the father is literally indwelling in the son but the son shows traits, characteristics, influences of the father that are being represented in the son.

Likewise the Holy Spirit authored the bible and those that live by the bible will have traits, characteristics, influences of the Holy Spirit that are being represented in the Christian.

John 17:17-21, 23,26 Sanctify them through thy truth: thy word is truth. As thou hast sent me into the world, even so have I also sent them into the world. And for their sakes I sanctify myself that they also might be sanctified through the truth. Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word; That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me. . . I in them and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one and that the world may know that thou hast sent me, and hast loved them, as thou hast loved me. . . .And I have declared unto them thy name, and will declare it: that the love wherewith thou hast loved me may be IN them and I IN them.

Colossians 1:27 - Christ in you the hope of glory . . .

But ye are not of the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell IN you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his. And if Christ be IN you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness. Romans 8:9,10

God in Christ is in us via the gift of holy Spirit.

 

[newbirth]

Representational indwelling of the Holy Spirit as sin representational indwells, not literally indwelling.

In some places as Acts 5:32 giving of the Holy Spirit is a metonymy for giving of miraculous abilities as the apostles had in this context.
Acts 2:38 as I see the gift of the Holy Spirit is not the Spirit Himself but his gift is miraculous signs per verse 17,18

1 John 4:13
Hereby know we that we dwell in him, and he in us, because he hath given us of his Spirit.

Ephesians 4:30
And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption.

 

[Atwood]

It been shown on this forum time and again the Holy Spirit never taught the man-made idea of eternal security. /QUOTE]

Actually it has been shown over & over again that the Word of God teaches eternal security. It is as plain as the nose on the face. To deny it is to deny that there is a Savior who saves & reduce Him to a chance-giver.

Thou shalt call His name Jesus, for
He shall save His people from their sin.

The evidence is overwhelming.

Ps 34
YHWH redeems the soul of his servants;
And none of them who take refuge in him shall be condemned.

Ps 52
But as for me, I am like a green olive-tree in the house of God:
I trust in the lovingkindness of God for ever and ever.
I will give thee thanks for ever, because thou hast done it;
1 Thes 5 end:
"And the God of peace himself sanctify you wholly; and may your spirit and soul and body be preserved entire, without blame at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ. Faithful is He Who calls you, Who will also do it.

Col 3
If then ye were raised together with Christ, seek the things that are above, where Christ is, seated on the right hand of God. Set your mind on the things that are above, not on the things that are upon the earth. For ye died, and your life is hid with Christ in God. When Christ, who is our life, shall be manifested, then shall ye also with him be manifested in glory.

2 Thes 2:16
Now our Lord Jesus Christ himself, and God our Father who loved us and gave us eternal comfort and good hope through grace, comfort your hearts and establish them in every good work and word.

End of Rom 8:
And we know that to them that love God all things work together for good, even to them that are called according to his purpose. For whom
he foreknew,
he also foreordained to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren: and whom
he foreordained, them
he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom
he justified, them
he also glorified.

31 What then shall we say to these things? If God is for us, who is against us? 3He that spared not his own Son, but delivered him up for us all, how shall he not also with him freely give us all things? Who shall lay anything to the charge of God’s elect? It is God that justifieth; who is he that condemneth? It is Christ Jesus that died, yea rather, that was raised from the dead, who is at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us. Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? shall tribulation, or anguish, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword? Even as it is written,
For thy sake we are killed all the day long;
We were accounted as sheep for the slaughter.

Nay, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him that loved us. For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor things present, nor things to come, nor powers, nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

< 1 Pet 1
Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who according to his great mercy begat us again unto a living hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, unto an inheritance incorruptible, and undefiled, and that fadeth not away, reserved in heaven for you, who by the power of God are guarded through faith unto a salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.

THE OVERCOMER

Revelation 3:5
The one who overcomes will be clothed thus in white garments, and I will never blot his name out of the book of life. I will confess his name before my Father… 1 John 5:4-5 For whatsoever is begotten of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that has overcome the world, even our faith. And who is he who overcomes the world, but he that believeth that Jesus is the Son of God? For everyone who has been born of God overcomes the world. And this is the victory that has overcome the world—our faith.

I will give unto him that is athirst of the fountain of the water of life freely. He that overcometh shall inherit these things; and I will be his God, and he shall be my son.

In II Thess. 3:3 “But the Lord is faithful, who shall establish you, and guard you from the evil one.”

In II Tim. 1:12 “For I know Him whom I have believed, and I am persuaded that He is able to guard that which I have committed unto Him against that day.”

< 2 Tim 4:18
The Lord will deliver me from every evil work, and will save me unto his heavenly kingdom;


2 Tim 1:8-9
… God; who saved us, and called us with a holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before times eternal,

2 thes 2:16-17 Now our Lord Jesus Christ himself, and God our Father who loved us and gave us eternal comfort and good hope through grace, comfort your hearts and establish them in every good work and word.

Rm 6:23b
the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.

John 10:27-29
My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me. I give them eternal life, and they will never perish,

John 6:37
All that the Father gives me will come to me, and whoever comes to me I will never cast out.

John 10:28
I give them eternal life, and they will never perish, and no one will snatch them out of my hand.

John 3:16
“For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life.

John 5:24
Truly, truly, I say to you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life. He does not come into judgment, but has passed from death to life.
2 Corinthians 1:22
And who has also put his seal on us and given us his Spirit in our hearts as a guarantee.
Romans 11:29
For the gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable.
1 John 5:13
I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God that you may know that you have eternal life.
Philippians 1:6
And I am sure of this, that he who began a good work in you will bring it to completion at the day of Jesus Christ.
Ephesians 2:8
For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God,
1 John 5:10-13
Whoever believes in the Son of God has the testimony in himself. Whoever does not believe God has made him a liar, because he has not believed in the testimony that God has borne concerning his Son. And this is the testimony, that God gave us eternal life, and this life is in his Son. Whoever has the Son has life; whoever does not have the Son of God does not have life. I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God that you may know that you have eternal life.
Romans 11:6
But if it is by grace, it is no longer on the basis of works; otherwise grace would no longer be grace.

Romans 8:34
Who is to condemn? Christ Jesus is the one who died—more than that, who was raised—who is at the right hand of God, who indeed is interceding for us.
Ephesians 2:8-9
For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, not a result of works, so that no one may boast.
Romans 6:23
For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.
Philippians 3:20-21
But our citizenship is in heaven, and from it we await a Savior, the Lord Jesus Christ, who will transform our lowly body to be like his glorious body, by the power that enables him even to subject all things to himself.

Ps 138
"thy right hand will save me.
YHWH will perfect that which concerns me:"
Ephesians 1:13
In him you also, when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation, and believed in him, were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit,

For the gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable.

Philippians 1:6
And I am sure of this, that he who began a good work in you will bring it to completion at the day of Jesus Christ.
Ephesians 2:8
For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God,

1 John 2:19
They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would have continued with us. But they went out, that it might become plain that they all are not of us.
John 6:40
For this is the will of my Father, that everyone who looks on the Son and believes in
For this is the will of my Father, that every one that beholdeth the Son, and believeth on him, should have eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day.
Hebrews 10:14
For by a single offering he has perfected for all time those who are being sanctified.

Ephesians 2:8-10 For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, not a result of works, so that no one may boast. For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them.
John 4:14
But whoever drinks of the water that I will give him will never be thirsty again. The water that I will give him will become in him a spring of water welling up to eternal life.
John 6:47
Truly, truly, I say to you, whoever believes has eternal life.
John 3:36
Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life; whoever does not obey the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God remains on him.
John 3:18
Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only Son of God.
Psalm 34:22
The Lord redeems the life of his servants; none of those who take refuge in him will be condemned.
Jude 1:24
Now to him who is able to keep you from stumbling and to present you blameless before the presence of his glory with great joy,
1 Peter 1:3-5
Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who according to his great mercy begat us again unto a living hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, 4 unto an inheritance incorruptible, and undefiled, and that fadeth not away, reserved in heaven for you, 5 who by the power of God are guarded through faith unto a salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.
Colossians 1:13
He has delivered us from the domain of darkness and transferred us to the kingdom of his beloved Son,
Romans 8:32
He who did not spare his own Son but gave him up for us all, how will he not also with him graciously give us all things?
Romans 8:1
There is therefore now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus
John 1:12
But to all who did receive him, who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God,
born of God overcomes the world. And this is the victory that has overcome the world—our faith.
Hebrews 9:15
Therefore he is the mediator of a new covenant, so that those who are called may receive the promised eternal inheritance, since a death has occurred that redeems them from the transgressions committed under the first covenant.
Ephesians 1
Paul, an apostle of Christ Jesus by the will of God, To the saints who are in Ephesus, and are faithful in Christ Jesus: Grace to you and peace from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ. Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us in Christ with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places, even as he chose us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and blameless before him. In love he predestined us for adoption as sons through Jesus

In him we have obtained an inheritance, having been predestined according to the purpose of him who works all things according to the counsel of his will,

< ps 138
thy right hand will save me.
Jehovah will perfect that which concerns me:
Thy lovingkindness, O Jehovah, endureth forever;

Heb 11:19ff

And these all, having had witness borne to them through their faith, received not the promise, God having provided some better thing concerning us, that apart from us they should not be made perfect. Therefore let us also, seeing we are compassed about with so great a cloud of witnesses, lay aside every weight, and the sin which doth so easily beset us, and let us run with patience the race that is set before us, looking unto Jesus the author and perfecter of our faith, who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross,


looking unto Jesus the author and perfecter of our faith, who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross,


Isaiah 26:12
Jehovah, thou wilt ordain peace for us; for thou hast also wrought all our works for us.

Eph 2
but God, being rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us, even when we were dead through our trespasses, made us alive together with Christ (by grace have ye been saved), and raised us up with him, and made us to sit with him in the heavenly places, in Christ Jesus: that in the ages to come he might show the exceeding riches of his grace in kindness toward us in Christ Jesus: for by grace have ye been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God; not of works, that no man should glory. For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God afore prepared that we should walk in them.

Philip 1:6
And I am sure of this, that he who began a good work in you will bring it to completion at the day of Jesus Christ.

 

[Atwood]

Rom 7:20 "Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me." Did sin literally indwell in Paul? Sin literally dwell in man? No. Rom 8:9 "But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his. Rom 7:18 "For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not." Rom 8;9 Paul says the spirit of God indwells but also says no good thing dwelleth in him....hmmmm

Literal or non-literal or whatever, what will you ever do about the Sin that dwells in you? It does dwell in you.

There are clearly 2 distinct me's in Paul, as in every Christian, Old Me & New Me; Old Man & New Man. Thus the Christian is exhorted to be transformed, metamorphosized (Rom 12:1-2; 1 Cor 3:18). It all starts with a New Birth by the power of the regenerating Holy Spirit. When will you get yours?

I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish.

ETERNAL LIFE + NEVER PERISH together in one verse!