HOLY SPIRIT CONVICTS OF WHAT?

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newbirth said:
A "believer" who acts a sinner???
A believer does not act like a sinner....it is either he sinned or did not sin....a believer who is drawn away from Christ by his own lust and sins will be condemned by the law if he stays in that position if he repent and confess he will be forgiven....while in that position that person still belongs to Christ...the HS is still in them ...Grieving... but there ...telling them to return to the Master...there are only two places a man can be ...it is either in Christ or under the law of sin....God concluded all under sin....you cannot be in Christ and commit sin....it is impossible...if you sin it means you were already drawn away from Christ....
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Those lust are stirred up by the law...for the commandment produced in me all manner of evil lust, apart from the law sin was dead....The strength of sin is the law...legalist are slaves to sin...those who are under the Holy Spirit and Gods righteousness are slaves to righteousness. Legalism is the problem in the church...not folks misusing liberty! If some do then you correct them but you don't teach false doctrine because somebody might sin..... Its grace that overcomes sin and there is no other way! Anyone who thinks they are becoming more godly through legalism is self deceived and cannot see they are far from the divine nature of God.
 
Mitspa said:
Those lust are stirred up by the law...for the commandment produced in me all manner of evil lust, apart from the law sin was dead....The strength of sin is the law...legalist are slaves to sin...those who are under the Holy Spirit and Gods righteousness are slaves to righteousness. Legalism is the problem in the church...not folks misusing liberty! If some do then you correct them but you don't teach false doctrine because somebody might sin..... Its grace that overcomes sin and there is no other way! Anyone who thinks they are becoming more godly through legalism is self deceived and cannot see they are far from the divine nature of God.
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and if they sin what tells them they sin....is it not the law....and if they lust you are saying the commandment made them lust? you are blaming the commandment for being the cause of man sin....if a man steal the commandment did not make him steal...the commandment only tells him stealing is wrong....what you are doing is blaming and removing the commandment to make him not be a thief...that is not scripture.....a man is drawn away by his own lust , the commandment does not produce lust in him...you misunderstand the scripture...what you are saying is God gave commandments to produce lust in man and then condemn man for lusting...
 
newbirth said:
and if they sin what tells them they sin....is it not the law....and if they lust you are saying the commandment made them lust? you are blaming the commandment for being the cause of man sin....if a man steal the commandment did not make him steal...the commandment only tells him stealing is wrong....what you are doing is blaming and removing the commandment to make him not be a thief...that is not scripture.....a man is drawn away by his own lust , the commandment does not produce lust in him...you misunderstand the scripture...what you are saying is God gave commandments to produce lust in man and then condemn man for lusting...
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If a Christian is sitting in a church service... and the preacher is talking about sin (which is rare anymore), and that Christian has been engaging in that particular sin... and recognizes it... that person is "convicted" of sin. Did the preacher convict him or her? No. He or she has been made aware of their guilt. If the Spirit doesn't convict a believer of an active sin does that person continue to sin just because they have been taught that they should NOT be convicted of sin? Think about it.
 
Anonimous said:
If a Christian is sitting in a church service... and the preacher is talking about sin (which is rare anymore), and that Christian has been engaging in that particular sin... and recognizes it... that person is "convicted" of sin. Did the preacher convict him or her? No. He or she has been made aware of their guilt. If the Spirit doesn't convict a believer of an active sin does that person continue to sin just because they have been taught that they should NOT be convicted of sin? Think about it.
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Just a second thought... We KNOW that the Spirit convicts unbelievers of sin. When the Spirit makes aware of sin... could it be that we mean a different word than what we normally consider as "conviction"?
 
Anonimous said:
If a Christian is sitting in a church service... and the preacher is talking about sin (which is rare anymore), and that Christian has been engaging in that particular sin... and recognizes it... that person is "convicted" of sin. Did the preacher convict him or her? No. He or she has been made aware of their guilt. If the Spirit doesn't convict a believer of an active sin does that person continue to sin just because they have been taught that they should NOT be convicted of sin? Think about it.
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my contention here is....there is no need to convict a believer who has not sinned.... only a person in sin can be convicted of sin by the HS....if one is in sin he is not in Christ....the law and the commandment did not make him sin...that was his own choosing..
 
Anonimous said:
Just a second thought... We KNOW that the Spirit convicts unbelievers of sin. When the Spirit makes aware of sin... could it be that we mean a different word than what we normally consider as "conviction"?
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changing the word does not make a difference....a believer who is in sin is in danger of hell fire same as the unbeliever...
 
newbirth said:
and if they sin what tells them they sin....is it not the law....and if they lust you are saying the commandment made them lust? you are blaming the commandment for being the cause of man sin....if a man steal the commandment did not make him steal...the commandment only tells him stealing is wrong....what you are doing is blaming and removing the commandment to make him not be a thief...that is not scripture.....a man is drawn away by his own lust , the commandment does not produce lust in him...you misunderstand the scripture...what you are saying is God gave commandments to produce lust in man and then condemn man for lusting...
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I AM SAYING WHAT THE BIBLE CLEARLY SAYS...THE STRENGTH OF SIN IS THE LAW. A believer cannot be set free from sin until they are set free from the law ...now I have spent hours with you guys on that point and you just cant seem to believe the bible? But that's not the topic here...its a believers conscience that "convicts" them ....not the Holy spirit
 
newbirth said:
my contention here is....there is no need to convict a believer who has not sinned.... only a person in sin can be convicted of sin by the HS....if one is in sin he is not in Christ....the law and the commandment did not make him sin...that was his own choosing..
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Well that's not what the bible teaches...but the bible does teach that the law is the strength of sin...and only the grace of God overcomes sin.

But we know for sure the bible does not teach that the Holy Spirit convicts a believer of sin....
 
Mitspa said:
I AM SAYING WHAT THE BIBLE CLEARLY SAYS...THE STRENGTH OF SIN IS THE LAW. A believer cannot be set free from sin until they are set free from the law ...now I have spent hours with you guys on that point and you just cant seem to believe the bible? But that's not the topic here...its a believers conscience that "convicts" them ....not the Holy spirit
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just throwing' this out there...my husband's at his sister's, so the guy i'd usually ask is busy. :)

but since the Law is written on our hearts, can it do its own convicting? :confused:
 
psychomom said:
just throwing' this out there...my husband's at his sister's, so the guy i'd usually ask is busy. :)

but since the Law is written on our hearts, can it do its own convicting? :confused:
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Well this is the Spirit of God that witnesses with our spirit that we are children of God...its not a written set of rules, but its Gods nature and love...which the written code was only a shadow of...The Law upon our hearts is written by Gods love for us as His Children, when we fail to remember who we are then we act like the world...The Holy Spirit (law upon our heart) is always teaching and lifting us up to who we are in Christ...Never making us sinners in the world.
 
Mitspa said:
Well this is the Spirit of God that witnesses with our spirit that we are children of God...its not a written set of rules, but its Gods nature and love...which the written code was only a shadow of...The Law upon our hearts is written by Gods love for us as His Children, when we fail to remember who we are then we act like the world...The Holy Spirit (law upon our heart) is always teaching and lifting us up to who we are in Christ...Never making us sinners in the world.
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I would add to this our conscience of who we are and Gods standards our very much apart of our soul...mind and heart...and when we fail ...and we all do. its the Holy Spirit that affirms us in our relationship with God.
 
newbirth said:
changing the word does not make a difference....a believer who is in sin is in danger of hell fire same as the unbeliever...
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a BELIEVER under the law is in wilfull sin ...this is the warning of the scriptures. The strength of sin is the law...the law is not of faith....whatsoever is not of faith is sin. This is where a believer endangers their soul. Every legalist I have ever seen was in a condition of sin...they could not see because they was blind to their own hypocrisy. Its the same on this forum ...all those who are legalist on this forum are in some sin they will not admit because of hypocrisy.
 
Mitspa said:
I AM SAYING WHAT THE BIBLE CLEARLY SAYS...THE STRENGTH OF SIN IS THE LAW. A believer cannot be set free from sin until they are set free from the law ...now I have spent hours with you guys on that point and you just cant seem to believe the bible? But that's not the topic here...its a believers conscience that "convicts" them ....not the Holy spirit
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if a believer does not sin what is there to convict.....???and if one is in sin it is the HS that convicts of sin...your assumption is that a believer who sins is still abiding in Christ...not so ...there can be no sin in Christ...
 
newbirth said:
if a believer does not sin what is there to convict.....???and if one is in sin it is the HS that convicts of sin...your assumption is that a believer who sins is still abiding in Christ...not so ...there can be no sin in Christ...
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Well if you know any believer like that I have some questions to ask him... :) You know there is a difference between not having sin and putting on a religious mask...Paul said he was blameless but all his law-keeping was dung ...Its the heart that has to be converted and even Paul had to admit He was a wretched man when his heart was judged.


No sin in Christ and believer justified by faith is justified ... and has no sin
 
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Mitspa said:
Well that's not what the bible teaches...but the bible does teach that the law is the strength of sin...and only the grace of God overcomes sin.

But we know for sure the bible does not teach that the Holy Spirit convicts a believer of sin....
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what exactly does the bible not teach???
are you saying a person who believes but does not continue in the word or err in the word is not convicted of sin by the HS...that person is worldly and it is the HS that convicts the world of sin..
you are making everyone who say lord lord a believer and incapable of sin...

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Originally Posted by newbirth
my contention here is....there is no need to convict a believer who has not sinned.... only a person in sin can be convicted of sin by the HS....if one is in sin he is not in Christ....the law and the commandment did not make him sin...that was his own choosing..
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Heb 10:10 By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.
11 And every priest standeth daily ministering and offering oftentimes the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins:
12 But this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God;
13 From henceforth expecting till his enemies be made his footstool.
14 For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.

Heb 10:15 Whereof the Holy Ghost also is a witness to us: for after that he had said before,
16 This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them;
17 And their sins and iniquities will I remember no more.


its unbiblical to teach the Holy Spirit is convicting a believer of sin...its false doctrine!
 
newbirth said:
what exactly does the bible not teach???
are you saying a person who believes but does not continue in the word or err in the word is not convicted of sin by the HS...that person is worldly and it is the HS that convicts the world of sin..
you are making everyone who say lord lord a believer and incapable of sin...
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First its impossible to explain true biblical correction to a person who is under the law...The first sin to purge is hypocrisy and then you can see to help others.

But the bible is clear ...that its grace that overcomes sin not the law...the law is the strength of sin. Until you deal with that truth you cannot possibly understand how God deals with the flesh of a believer.
 
Mitspa said:
Well if you know any believer like that I have some questions to ask him... :) You know there is a difference between not having sin and putting on a religious mask...Paul said he was blameless but all his law-keeping was dung ...Its the heart that has to be converted and even Paul had to admit He was a wretched man when his heart was judged.


No sin in Christ and believer justified by faith is justified ... and has no sin
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does that mean if you sin you have not sinned....James is clear that one cannot sin in Christ...

James 1:13-15King James Version (KJV)
[SUP]13 [/SUP]Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man:
[SUP]14 [/SUP]But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed.
[SUP]15 [/SUP]Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death.
 
newbirth said:
does that mean if you sin you have not sinned....James is clear that one cannot sin in Christ...

James 1:13-15King James Version (KJV)
[SUP]13 [/SUP]Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man:
[SUP]14 [/SUP]But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed.
[SUP]15 [/SUP]Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death.
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James does not say that John does...He is talking to the double minded...half grace -half law and James points to grace and the Spirit as the solution to sin just like Paul...not the law of Moses.

Jas 1:17 Every good gift and every perfect gift is from above, and cometh down from the Father of lights, with whom is no variableness, neither shadow of turning.
18 Of his own will begat he us with the word of truth, that we should be a kind of firstfruits of his creatures.
 
Mitspa said:
First its impossible to explain true biblical correction to a person who is under the law...The first sin to purge is hypocrisy and then you can see to help others.

But the bible is clear ...that its grace that overcomes sin not the law...the law is the strength of sin. Until you deal with that truth you cannot possibly understand how God deals with the flesh of a believer.
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Christ overcame sin and death on the cross....a believer has to put to death the lust of the flesh(by not sinning) and live in obedience to Christ...you seem totally confused.....Christ is the end of the law to them that believe....that is those who believe and obey the truth....it is they who are not under the law....disobedience to Christ puts you back under the law...Rom 6:16
God gives us power over sin....clearly the power to sin or not to sin is in our hands...Rom 6:14
and scripture is saying in vs 16 what you do with that power determines your outcome...
The law is not an issue to the obedient it is an issue to the disobedient it has power over the disobedient...but none over the obedient....so the law has no strength over you if you do not sin...so what strength are you going on about.???
Romans 6:13-16King James Version (KJV)
[SUP]13 [/SUP]Neither yield ye your members as instruments of unrighteousness unto sin: but yield yourselves unto God, as those that are alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness unto God.
[SUP]14 [/SUP]For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.
[SUP]15 [/SUP]What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid.
[SUP]16 [/SUP]Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?
 
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