HOLY SPIRIT CONVICTS OF WHAT?

[kennethcadwell]

So whats your point Kenneth? The fact is that the doctrine that the Holy Spirit convicts a believer of sin...is false doctrine and a work of satan.

So how does the Lord correct or chastise a believer then by your understanding ????

Remember the bible says in Hebrews 12 He chastises His sons, and sons are not unbelievers. That same passage compares the Lord as like our earthly fathers. If you disobeyed your earthly parents, do you not face punishment and correction. It says as His sons (believers) He will do the same chastise you and correct you for your disobedience.


[h=1]Hebrews 12:8-11[/h]8 But if you are without chastening, of which all have become partakers, then you are illegitimate and not sons. 9 Furthermore, we have had human fathers who corrected us, and we paid them respect. Shall we not much more readily be in subjection to the Father of spirits and live? 10 For they indeed for a few days chastened us as seemed best to them, but He for our profit, that we may be partakers of His holiness. 11 Now no chastening seems to be joyful for the present, but painful; nevertheless, afterward it yields the peaceable fruit of righteousness to those who have been trained by it.

 

[newbirth]

The bible says it ...not me

that is what I am asking you to do....just show where the bible says it...

 

[Mitspa]

that is what I am asking you to do....just show where the bible says it...

Already have...few post ago

 

[newbirth]

I already explained it a few post ago ...go back and read it.

you did not ...that is why I am asking...I am saying a man in Christ cannot be tempted ...he must first be drawn away...are you saying different...do you deny this truth???

Originally Posted by newbirth

what does this mean to you?? Can a man in Christ say he is tempted???no.. he must first be drawn away from Christ..even this simple truth you cannot understand...and will not accept... .?[SUP]
13 [/SUP]Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man:
[SUP]14 [/SUP]But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed.
[SUP]15 [/SUP]Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death.

 

[Mitspa]

So how does the Lord correct or chastise a believer then by your understanding ????

Remember the bible says in Hebrews 12 He chastises His sons, and sons are not unbelievers. That same passage compares the Lord as like our earthly fathers. If you disobeyed your earthly parents, do you not face punishment and correction. It says as His sons (believers) He will do the same chastise you and correct you for your disobedience.


Hebrews 12:8-11

8But if you are without chastening, of which all have become partakers, then you are illegitimate and not sons. 9 Furthermore, we have had human fathers who corrected us, and we paid them respect. Shall we not much more readily be in subjection to the Father of spirits and live? 10 For they indeed for a few days chastened us as seemed best to them, but He for our profit, that we may be partakers of His holiness. 11 Now no chastening seems to be joyful for the present, but painful; nevertheless, afterward it yields the peaceable fruit of righteousness to those who have been trained by it.

Well its impossible to explain bible correction to those who reject the bible in part and pick and choose what they want to believe...Its impossible to show folks the correction of the Spirit who are in the flesh and under the law...Its impossible to teach those who reject the grace of God how the grace of God teaches us to deny ungodly behavior.....If you don't believe that grace is the power over sin? How can I set you free from sin?

 

[newbirth]

Already have...few post ago

the original post is #130 which post is the explanation???

 

[Mitspa]

you did not ...that is why I am asking...I am saying a man in Christ cannot be tempted ...he must first be drawn away...are you saying different...do you deny this truth???

Well what is says is that he cant be tempted by God... but by his own lust...and the strength of sin is the law...so you must first be set free from the law to be set free from your lust.


Ro 7:7 ¶ What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet.
8 But sin, taking occasion by the commandment, wrought in me all manner of concupiscence. For without the law sin was dead.

 

[keeth]

Right so when scripture tells us the law is not of faith and is the strength of sin...why dont you believe it? When the scriptures tells us the Holy Spirits witness to us...why don't you believe it?

Ro 7:6 But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter.
7 ¶ What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet.

why don't you believe the bible?

Who are you to say what I believe? I know you do not know me well enough to make such a judgment. I do believe what the scriptures you quoted say. I believe them according to and in harmony with the rest of scripture, not as the whole truth embodied in just those verses, as opposed to or in contradiction to many another scripture. I do not pit one bible verse against another as though God has given constant contradictory testimony throughout His word. He is not the author of confusion, humans are when they are led by the spirit of him below rather than the Spirit of Him above.

You have not addressed the issue I presented to you, but only employed a diversionary tactic. Will you not agree, that the Holy Scriptures were inspired by the Holy Spirit of God, and therefore carry the weight of His conviction with them whenever preached or referred to as truth? Must we all submit to the narrowness of your demands regarding scripture as you see it, or are we free to examine your views in the greater context of all of God's word, not just what you quote and explain according to your own understanding?

It is the condemnation of the law that we are delivered from, not the authority of the same. God is the authority of the same, if you want to be delivered from Him, then live a life of willing sin in defiance of His law. If you want to be made right with Him, then accept your death in Christ and be delivered from the condemnation of God's law which is obviously still in effect seeing that we all must be delivered from its condemnation, and allow Christ to live within you unto salvation. The scriptures do after all point out that we are delivered from sin, that the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled within us. Or do you deny the scriptures concerning this truth which might not fit into what you promote?

Rom 8:1 ¶ There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit. 2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death. 3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh: 4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit. 5 For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit. 6 For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace. 7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be. 8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God. 9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his. 10 ¶ And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness. 11 But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you. 12 Therefore, brethren, we are debtors, not to the flesh, to live after the flesh. 13 For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live. 14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.

 

[kennethcadwell]

Well its impossible to explain bible correction to those who reject the bible in part and pick and choose what they want to believe...Its impossible to show folks the correction of the Spirit who are in the flesh and under the law...Its impossible to teach those who reject the grace of God how the grace of God teaches us to deny ungodly behavior.....If you don't believe that grace is the power over sin? How can I set you free from sin?

So instead of answering the question, you beat around the bush about it saying its impossible to explain.
No it is not, it is simple to explain.
If you are not walking accordingly to how you were called by Him to walk, He will feel you full of Godly sorrow by His own Spirit to show you what you are doing is wrong. Then He will guide you and tell you the proper way to go about in your walk.

 

[Mitspa]

Who are you to say what I believe? I know you do not know me well enough to make such a judgment. I do believe what the scriptures you quoted say. I believe them according to and in harmony with the rest of scripture, not as the whole truth embodied in just those verses, as opposed to or in contradiction to many another scripture. I do not pit one bible verse against another as though God has given constant contradictory testimony throughout His word. He is not the author of confusion, humans are when they are led by the spirit of him below rather than the Spirit of Him above.

You have not addressed the issue I presented to you, but only employed a diversionary tactic. Will you not agree, that the Holy Scriptures were inspired by the Holy Spirit of God, and therefore carry the weight of His conviction with them whenever preached or referred to as truth? Must we all submit to the narrowness of your demands regarding scripture as you see it, or are we free to examine your views in the greater context of all of God's word, not just what you quote and explain according to your own understanding?

It is the condemnation of the law that we are delivered from, not the authority of the same. God is the authority of the same, if you want to be delivered from Him, then live a life of willing sin in defiance of His law. If you want to be made right with Him, then accept your death in Christ and be delivered from the condemnation of God's law which is obviously still in effect seeing that we all must be delivered from its condemnation, and allow Christ to live within you unto salvation. The scriptures do after all point out that we are delivered from sin, that the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled within us. Or do you deny the scriptures concerning this truth which might not fit into what you promote?

Rom 8:1 ¶ There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit. 2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death. 3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh: 4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit. 5 For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit. 6 For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace. 7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be. 8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God. 9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his. 10 ¶ And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness. 11 But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you. 12 Therefore, brethren, we are debtors, not to the flesh, to live after the flesh. 13 For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live. 14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.

Not sure of your point? The law is the strength of sin and its purpose was to condemn all that are under it...Its sounds like you are saying we are under it but not really to uphold its true standard? And you cannot be under the "letter" and under the "Spirit" at the same time...that's impossible.

 

[newbirth]

Well what is says is that he cant be tempted by God... but by his own lust...and the strength of sin is the law...so you must first be set free from the law to be set free from your lust.

but Christ already freed us from sin and the law.....and therefore we are free from lust....so if one lust it is their own doing not the law

Ro 7:7 ¶ What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet.
8 But sin, taking occasion by the commandment, wrought in me all manner of concupiscence. For without the law sin was dead.

but in Christ we are not under law and sin have no power over you... so when one sin it is their own doing not the law

so why do you keep blaming the law and commandments for what a man chooses to do....

 

[Mitspa]

So instead of answering the question, you beat around the bush about it saying its impossible to explain.
No it is not, it is simple to explain.
If you are not walking accordingly to how you were called by Him to walk, He will feel you full of Godly sorrow by His own Spirit to show you what you are doing is wrong. Then He will guide you and tell you the proper way to go about in your walk.

I have spent hours and hours trying to explain the truth to you...you reject the word of Grace and its impossible to show you how grace overcomes sin... But that has nothing to do with the fact that THE BIBLE proves this doctrine of the Holy Spirit convicting a believer of sin is clearly false and clearly a work of satan (the spirit that accuses)

 

[Mitspa]

but Christ already freed us from sin and the law.....and therefore we are free from lust....so if one lust it is their own doing not the law

but in Christ we are not under law and sin have no power over you... so when one sin it is their own doing not the law

so why do you keep blaming the law and commandments for what a man chooses to do....

Right because we have been set free from the law....if you reject that truth? Your still in bondage to sin.

Ro 6:14 For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.

 

[Hizikyah]

Right because we have been set free from the law....if you reject that truth? Your still in bondage to sin.

Ro 6:14 For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.

Just because we have mercy does not mean we throw all Instructions in the Law of Yahweh in the trash.

Romans 3:28, "For we maintain that a person is justified by faith apart from the works of the Law."

Romans 3:31, "Are we then doing away with the Law through the faith? By no means! Rather, we establish the Law!"

Romans 6:1-2, "What shall we say then? Are we to continue in sin that grace may abound? By no means!How can we who died to sin still live in it?"

Romans 7:7 What? Can anyone therefore say that the Law is sin? No! By no means! But to the contrary, I did not know sin; transgression of the Law, except through the Law, for I did not know lust, unless the Law had said: Do not covet.

12 Therefore the Law is holy, and the commandments are holy, and just, and righteous.

Yahdah 1:4, "For there are certain men who have secretly crept in, who were before of old ordained for this condemnation, unholy men, who turn the undeserved pardon of our One Supreme Savior Yahweh into licentiousness, and deny Yahshua our Messiah."

 

[kennethcadwell]

I have spent hours and hours trying to explain the truth to you...you reject the word of Grace and its impossible to show you how grace overcomes sin... But that has nothing to do with the fact that THE BIBLE proves this doctrine of the Holy Spirit convicting a believer of sin is clearly false and clearly a work of satan (the spirit that accuses)

You have not once proven it to be false, only in your own mind have you proven it.
You continue to walk around thinking that once a person accepts Christ from day one they are no longer sinner, and sin no longer matters. You fail to look at the 100's of scriptures that refute your thinking, on how believers are still to abstain from sin. Meaning they can no longer walk in them, as we are called to righteousness and not uncleanness. If you say you are under Christ completely then you can no longer sin, as you will have control over those sins because the Holy Spirit will keep you with guidance to stop them before they become full grown.
There is no scripture in bible that says sins before they are repented or confessed of are automatically forgiven and not imputed on them. You have spent hours posting the same handful of scriptures you take out of context, and deny the many of other scriptures that have been shown to you. Just like Hebrews 12 that has been given to you many times now that you never once answer, but instead beat around answering it or stick to your initial this can't happen because sins are not imputed on me. Have you repented or confessed them ? If not then they still are, and if yes then they are not imputed on you. Repentance and confession to receive that remission has to take place first !!! That is what you keep denying that is biblical.

 

[Mitspa]

You have not once proven it to be false, only in your own mind have you proven it.
You continue to walk around thinking that once a person accepts Christ from day one they are no longer sinner, and sin no longer matters. You fail to look at the 100's of scriptures that refute your thinking, on how believers are still to abstain from sin. Meaning they can no longer walk in them, as we are called to righteousness and not uncleanness. If you say you are under Christ completely then you can no longer sin, as you will have control over those sins because the Holy Spirit will keep you with guidance to stop them before they become full grown.
There is no scripture in bible that says sins before they are repented or confessed of are automatically forgiven and not imputed on them. You have spent hours posting the same handful of scriptures you take out of context, and deny the many of other scriptures that have been shown to you. Just like Hebrews 12 that has been given to you many times now that you never once answer, but instead beat around answering it or stick to your initial this can't happen because sins are not imputed on me. Have you repented or confessed them ? If not then they still are, and if yes then they are not imputed on you. Repentance and confession to receive that remission has to take place first !!! That is what you keep denying that is biblical.

Like I said...I cant teach someone who rejects the truth of scripture ...and that's what I put forth as the only standard of truth...not what so of you have been taught by your religious tradition...but the Word of God determines the truth and it is clear that the Holy Spirit does not convict the believer of sin.....can you produce a scripture that says that? even one?

 

[newbirth]

I have spent hours and hours trying to explain the truth to you...you reject the word of Grace and its impossible to show you how grace overcomes sin... But that has nothing to do with the fact that THE BIBLE proves this doctrine of the Holy Spirit convicting a believer of sin is clearly false and clearly a work of satan (the spirit that accuses)

Christ overcame sin and death on the Cross bro ...grace is not now going to overcome sin...why do you give the impression that we now have to overcome sin by grace...Christians have the choice to follow the Spirit which is in them or follow the flesh.....if you follow the Spirit you will not sin...and thus live....if you follow the flesh ...you will sin and thus die....one who sins is clearly not following the Spirit and therefore not in Christ...so the HS can convict that one because he is guilty of sin...The HS however cannot convict one who is following the Spirit of Christ and have not sinned.....there is no condemnation to them that are in Christ

 

[kennethcadwell]

I have another question for you Mitspa, and that is in your profile it says you were saved in 2000......

So in these past 13+ years to today, you have never once told a lie, lusted in your heart, showed hatred toward another, no forgiveness to others, and so on ???

 

[Mitspa]

Just because we have mercy does not mean we throw all Instructions in the Law of Yahweh in the trash.

Romans 3:28, "For we maintain that a person is justified by faith apart from the works of the Law."

Romans 3:31, "Are we then doing away with the Law through the faith? By no means! Rather, we establish the Law!"

Romans 6:1-2, "What shall we say then? Are we to continue in sin that grace may abound? By no means!How can we who died to sin still live in it?"

Romans 7:7 What? Can anyone therefore say that the Law is sin? No! By no means! But to the contrary, I did not know sin; transgression of the Law, except through the Law, for I did not know lust, unless the Law had said: Do not covet.

12 Therefore the Law is holy, and the commandments are holy, and just, and righteous.

Yahdah 1:4, "For there are certain men who have secretly crept in, who were before of old ordained for this condemnation, unholy men, who turn the undeserved pardon of our One Supreme Savior Yahweh into licentiousness, and deny Yahshua our Messiah."

No we who teach the true gospel uphold the law and its true standards...and teach the only true way to fulfill the law is through love in the Spirit, not in the "letter"...

 

[kennethcadwell]

Christ overcame sin and death on the Cross bro ...grace is not now going to overcome sin...why do you give the impression that we now have to overcome sin by grace...Christians have the choice to follow the Spirit which is in them or follow the flesh.....if you follow the Spirit you will not sin...and thus live....if you follow the flesh ...you will sin and thus die....one who sins is clearly not following the Spirit and therefore not in Christ...so the HS can convict that one because he is guilty of sin...The HS however cannot convict one who is following the Spirit of Christ and have not sinned.....there is no condemnation to them that are in Christ

Not to mention that the bible says that you can not follow both also !!!