Question for OSAS believers...

[kennethcadwell]

[/B][/U]
I am sorry you make quotes concerning yourself...like the one highlighted above....Jesus does not call him a GOAT at the very moment he has LOST HIS WAY...he is still a sheep....it is you mi amigo that is blind to simple truth.....!

Then by your faulty understanding with this scripture, rather the sheep repented or not they would have still ended up with eternal life. That is not biblical, and makes no since at all since their will be rejoicing in heaven over that one that repented. The reason for the rejoicing is because they will now be with them in the kingdom and have eternal life do to repenting.......

 

[kennethcadwell]

You cannot agree with John 10:27-30 and also disagree with it at the same time by saying you lost your salvation then regained it. It's a total contradiction of the verses.

You have to take all scripture into consideration to come up with a conclusion. If you only go by one or a couple of scriptures your context and understanding will be flawed, and at no time in my response in post #126 did I disagree with that scripture. I supported it, but I also mentioned the other category of believers. Just as the Lord summed it up in the parable of the sower and the seed, and in this parable Jesus showed that it is not just as simple as believers and unbelievers. There is different types of people and how they accept the word.

 

[dcontroversal]

Then by your faulty understanding with this scripture, rather the sheep repented or not they would have still ended up with eternal life. That is not biblical, and makes no since at all since their will be rejoicing in heaven over that one that repented. The reason for the rejoicing is because they will now be with them in the kingdom and have eternal life do to repenting.......

Should I play your card and cry about you trying to make me look bad and being offensive? And exactly who is he talking to and who is he talking about when he makes this reference? NO WHERE in scripture is a lost man called a SHEEP....the bible also says ALL OF ISRAEL will be saved.......look Kenneth you can chubby checker (twist) all the scripture you want and NO where doe it teach a saved child of God can loose salvation.....so...if you honestly believe that you are trusting into yourself and your abilities over the perfect faith OF JESUS....period!

 

[Moose_Almighty]

Would you agree that if a Christian attempted to leave God as Jonah did, saying, "Good riddin's!" and never attempted to come back, but lived the rest of their life doing whatever evil came to their mind, that they would still be saved? And I'm not talking about if someone must not have been saved in the first place, but those that you agree we're actually saved. If, if, if this WERE the case, would they still be saved?

Point 1:
Say you own child spat in your face, curses you out constantly, tells you that you're dead to him/her, left you, and never came back. You gave your child an open invite to come back into your life but your child had no care to return what so ever. You see your child rebelling, committing all of the things you told him or her not to do. No matter the acts committed, you still love him or her and continue to call out and display an open invite to come back but your child never returns… That being said, did your child earn his or her place to be in your will?
Point 2:
Now after all of that has happened and your child came back, said sorry from the bottom of his or her heart and did everything out of respect and love to make it up to you. Your child may slip here or there but is trying really hard to show you their love to you. Would your child earn his or her place to be in your will?

God Bless EVERYONE!
-Moose_Almighty-

 

[kennethcadwell]

Should I play your card and cry about you trying to make me look bad and being offensive? And exactly who is he talking to and who is he talking about when he makes this reference? NO WHERE in scripture is a lost man called a SHEEP....the bible also says ALL OF ISRAEL will be saved.......look Kenneth you can chubby checker (twist) all the scripture you want and NO where doe it teach a saved child of God can loose salvation.....so...if you honestly believe that you are trusting into yourself and your abilities over the perfect faith OF JESUS....period!

So what would have happened to that sheep if it did not repent ????

 

[dcontroversal]

So what would have happened to that sheep if it did not repent ????

The same thing that happened unto many who were cut loose from the FOLD for the destruction of the FLESH that they may learn a not to blaspheme and so the SPIRIT would be saved in the day of redemption.....many a child of God have lost their way and wondered in the WILDERNESS with lives that were unproductive which lead to works of wood, hay and stubble, but were yet received as the children of God and saved yet so as by fire...!

 

[elf3]

You have to take all scripture into consideration to come up with a conclusion. If you only go by one or a couple of scriptures your context and understanding will be flawed, and at no time in my response in post #126 did I disagree with that scripture. I supported it, but I also mentioned the other category of believers. Just as the Lord summed it up in the parable of the sower and the seed, and in this parable Jesus showed that it is not just as simple as believers and unbelievers. There is different types of people and how they accept the word.

Well when you actually take every passage of Scripture in context you actually have a final conclusion that the words of Jesus in John 10:27-30 are correct. Those who have a true saving faith in Christ cannot lose their salvation.

So you can believe the Arminian view of salvation. I will believe in eternal security (biblical).

 

[kennethcadwell]

Point 1:
Say you own child spat in your face, curses you out constantly, tells you that you're dead to him/her, left you, and never came back. You gave your child an open invite to come back into your life but your child had no care to return what so ever. You see your child rebelling, committing all of the things you told him or her not to do. No matter the acts committed, you still love him or her and continue to call out and display an open invite to come back but your child never returns… That being said, did your child earn his or her place to be in your will?
Point 2:
Now after all of that has happened and your child came back, said sorry from the bottom of his or her heart and did everything out of respect and love to make it up to you. Your child may slip here or there but is trying really hard to show you their love to you. Would your child earn his or her place to be in your will?

God Bless EVERYONE!
-Moose_Almighty-

The bible makes a point that no impure (unclean) person will inherit the kingdom of heaven. (Ephesians 5:5)
The bible then says the only way you can be cleansed is of past sins by repentance and baptism. (Acts 2:38)
And then future sins, by confession. (1 John 1:9)
And if anybody has a question on that about past sins read Romans 3:25 and 2 Peter 1:5-9.

2 Corinthians 7:1
Having therefore these promises, dearly beloved, let us cleanse ourselves from all filthiness of the flesh and spirit, perfecting holiness in the fear of God.

 

[kennethcadwell]

Well when you actually take every passage of Scripture in context you actually have a final conclusion that the words of Jesus in John 10:27-30 are correct. Those who have a true saving faith in Christ cannot lose their salvation.

So you can believe the Arminian view of salvation. I will believe in eternal security (biblical).

Yes it would as the true believer will continue to do what is required of them.
The problem is that some take this to apply to all believers, especially of those who believe that nothing is required of them. And that is what I am trying to straighten out because there are many who believe they do not have to do anything but have mere belief. Believe He existed, died on the cross, and rose on the third day. However the bible, especially by the words of the Lord Himself, say much more than that. As He says you are to obey all that He taught and commanded.

 

[kennethcadwell]

The same thing that happened unto many who were cut loose from the FOLD for the destruction of the FLESH that they may learn a not to blaspheme and so the SPIRIT would be saved in the day of redemption.....many a child of God have lost their way and wondered in the WILDERNESS with lives that were unproductive which lead to works of wood, hay and stubble, but were yet received as the children of God and saved yet so as by fire...!

If they never repent though their spirit will not be saved !!!
Those who do works deserving of wood, hay and stubble are those who stay faithful but do not produce much righteous works in their life. The only way to become and stay faithful is through repentance, as one who is not faithful will not receive eternal life.......They were cut loose and handed over to satan for the destruction of the flesh, because by hitting rock bottom hopefully they will finally repent. No repentance, no salvation, its that easy......

 

[elf3]

Yes it would as the true believer will continue to do what is required of them.
The problem is that some take this to apply to all believers, especially of those who believe that nothing is required of them. And that is what I am trying to straighten out because there are many who believe they do not have to do anything but have mere belief. Believe He existed, died on the cross, and rose on the third day. However the bible, especially by the words of the Lord Himself, say much more than that. As He says you are to obey all that He taught and commanded.

Well if you happen to notice I never said all believers. I have only said those with true faith in Christ or true believers. So John 10:27-30 100% correct no if ands or buts about it.

 

[kennethcadwell]

Well if you happen to notice I never said all believers. I have only said those with true faith in Christ or true believers. So John 10:27-30 100% correct no if ands or buts about it.

Yes you did not, but what I was referring to is that there are many even on here that do place all believers under the John 10:27-30 category. They really believe mere belief, or even no obedience will still get them eternal life. Those will be the many that stand before the Lord wailing and gnashing at their teeth, because that thought they were saved when they really weren't.......

 

[elf3]

And as you noticed I referred to the sower and the seeds proving that not every believer has that true saving faith. So therefore OSAS is true as those true believers cannot lose salvation according to John 10:27-30. As far as what we believe our faith is will only be seen in the end unless God gives you that complete sense of peace in the hope of the glory of God.

So final conclusion OSAS is true for and only for those true believers in Christ.

 

[kennethcadwell]

And as you noticed I referred to the sower and the seeds proving that not every believer has that true saving faith. So therefore OSAS is true as those true believers cannot lose salvation according to John 10:27-30. As far as what we believe our faith is will only be seen in the end unless God gives you that complete sense of peace in the hope of the glory of God.

So final conclusion OSAS is true for and only for those true believers in Christ.

The only reason why I am against it is because I have seen some churches that teach the faulty way of once you are saved you can do whatever you want and not loose it. That is unbiblical as the bible says you have to walk properly in the Spirit and love. If you are not walking in the Spirit, and do not have and show love to others then you are not in Christ. There was a ton of churches back in the 70's and 80's that taught this way, which is why there was a major wake up call to the churches in the late 80's and early 90's for this faulty teaching.

 

[fredjames]

????
Sorry Kaycie, but how are we to ever know who was "once truly saved" and then "left"?
What I honestly want to understand is how one can possibly know this about someone?
I ask in a very serious manner....

How can a saved person and one who 'abide' in the 'words' and 'love' of CHRIST of the New Covenant, cannot distinguish between the spirit of error and spirit of truth in Christians?

Didn't JESUS say to HIS disciples, who HE was earlier 'building up' by HIS teachings, say in due time when HE will be away, that;

"You will know a tree by it's fruits."

Please use the new Covenant sound doctrine knowledge, taught by the HOLY SPIRIT, as a mirror of one's justification of truly practicing them as 'spirit' and 'life' conformation of the Temple of GOD, in 'abiding' faithfulness citizen to a beloved KING's order.

The motive of this sharing, is not to gang up against anyone. But to serve as a servant of the MASTER, HIS lambs and sheep, in just and fair sound doctrine knowledge explanation, as everyone's reminder and stir up of their memory, to sum up also together all others that are written, in order to 'paint a full portrait' of a righteous KING who ever lived and taught.

Thank you and be blessed in the name of LORD JESUS CHRIST.

 

[elf3]

The only reason why I am against it is because I have seen some churches that teach the faulty way of once you are saved you can do whatever you want and not loose it. That is unbiblical as the bible says you have to walk properly in the Spirit and love. If you are not walking in the Spirit, and do not have and show love to others then you are not in Christ. There was a ton of churches back in the 70's and 80's that taught this way, which is why there was a major wake up call to the churches in the late 80's and early 90's for this faulty teaching.

Ken you actually believe the exact same thing I believe on OSAS but what you disagree with is the way some churches approach salvation. I 100% agree with you on that. If we do not preach the true Gospel of Christ we can give a false sense of hope to someone who has no idea what we are talking about.

Like you I think the church on a whole needs to rethink how we preach the Gospel of Christ to teach truth and not a "candy coated" "good for everyone" "make everyone happy" message.

 

[kennethcadwell]

Ken you actually believe the exact same thing I believe on OSAS but what you disagree with is the way some churches approach salvation. I 100% agree with you on that. If we do not preach the true Gospel of Christ we can give a false sense of hope to someone who has no idea what we are talking about.

Like you I think the church on a whole needs to rethink how we preach the Gospel of Christ to teach truth and not a "candy coated" "good for everyone" "make everyone happy" message.

Yes which is why I get into debates very often because people have gotten into a relaxed faulty since of security by false teaching that has affected the church for ages now, and the sad thing is the bible says it is even going to get worse. For we are in that time when people will not endure sound doctrine, and will gather up teachers to suit how they want to believe. I have seen so many that call themselves Christians, but as soon as you start stating what the Lord said and show those scriptures. You get from them not for us, does not apply, does not mean that, and you have it wrong. I have even gone as far as showing scriptures from the epistles that confirm exactly everything the Lord said, yet they still deny the simplicity that is in that scriptures......

I don't candy coat, or water down the gospel like the faulty teachings of the 80's did.
This is why Jesus said you would be hated for His name sake, because His words are not welcomed by everybody. And as we can see even some that call themselves Christians do not welcome, accept, or follow His words. Sad day and age we live in that takes the great commission of Matthew 28 and throws it out the window.

 

[Radius]

Ken you actually believe the exact same thing I believe on OSAS but what you disagree with is the way some churches approach salvation. I 100% agree with you on that. If we do not preach the true Gospel of Christ we can give a false sense of hope to someone who has no idea what we are talking about.

Like you I think the church on a whole needs to rethink how we preach the Gospel of Christ to teach truth and not a "candy coated" "good for everyone" "make everyone happy" message.

/thread?

..........

 

[Deadtosin]

[video=youtube;LIgLJazSu0Q]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LIgLJazSu0Q[/video]

 

[elf3]

Yes which is why I get into debates very often because people have gotten into a relaxed faulty since of security by false teaching that has affected the church for ages now, and the sad thing is the bible says it is even going to get worse. For we are in that time when people will not endure sound doctrine, and will gather up teachers to suit how they want to believe. I have seen so many that call themselves Christians, but as soon as you start stating what the Lord said and show those scriptures. You get from them not for us, does not apply, does not mean that, and you have it wrong. I have even gone as far as showing scriptures from the epistles that confirm exactly everything the Lord said, yet they still deny the simplicity that is in that scriptures......

I don't candy coat, or water down the gospel like the faulty teachings of the 80's did.
This is why Jesus said you would be hated for His name sake, because His words are not welcomed by everybody. And as we can see even some that call themselves Christians do not welcome, accept, or follow His words. Sad day and age we live in that takes the great commission of Matthew 28 and throws it out the window.

I would suggest then instead of saying OSAS is not true to doing exactly what I have shown here. That OSAS is 100% true but only in context of what Scripture says. Those who do have the true saving faith in Christ can be assured of their salvation and those who "play the game" or "live the role" must truly look into themselves and ask Christ for that true faith in Him.

We must let people know that true saving faith can only come through complete surrender to Christ in every aspect of our lives. We must let them know that they cannot say I believe in Christ and refuse to give up their sinful ways. True saving faith comes from accepting Christ and allowing the Holy Spirit to have complete control of our lives.